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I am so sick of the excuses given to psychopaths - yes , early life and childhood abuse and trauma causes hell and often a lifetime of problems , but it's not a always a factor , some people would be bad no matter how they were brought up .

Myself and my siblings were abused and witnessed every hell known to man, but my brother wrapped his arms around me to protect me from beatings and walked me to school barefoot in the snow so I could get a free school meal . He never raped and murdered or abused and neither did I or any of the people I know who had it just as hard - in fact , the vilest people I knew and know have all had decent average or privileged upbringings .

It makes people who have overcome battles by birth look bad when defence use those excuses in court - it's not the case that the abused go on to abuse as a sure cert - you only hear that excuse in defence trials especially the pedos who LIE that they were victims so they did it too - true survivors will tell you that's horse shit. I'm not talking about the genuinely disturbed but the ones who really didn't have you much to rebel or get mad over except their own dark souls and hearts .

I'll be more willing to believe that this boy was loved and maybe spoilt at home and just a freak loner as some are and that sweet girl paid the price .

1) I am extremely sorry for what you went through and grateful that it sounds as if you all have the resilience to overcome it as best you all could. Not all people have that resilience (compare Elizabeth Smart to someone else who goes through a similar experience and comes out with debilitating ptsd and you can see what I mean by resilience). A good friend of mine was extremely neglected by heroin addict parents and spent her whole childhood sitting in front of the tv. She has a great career doing what she loves, a solid relationship, many friends, and a full happy life. Our past does not necessarily define us, this is true.
2) The perpetrator of this crime had a rough life and his mother was apparently absent much of the time and could be abusive. This is not an excuse but it explains factors that contributed to his rage.
3) While many people who are sexually abused do not go on to abuse children (thank god), others do take on the role of identifying with the abuser. That is why it is common knowledge that there can be a cycle of abuse. Not everyone turns out the same way, but the differences mostly have to do with protective factors (ie. at the very least good genes and resilience but often there is at least one positive role model or influence in the kid's life).
4) I know it is irritating to hear what sounds like excuses in court or on here, but many people are curious/have a need to know *why* when something like this happens. Sure there can be psychopaths who are just completely wired wrong and come from loving backgrounds with no known trauma and go on to commit heinous crimes. But that doesn't mean that a lot of violent criminals don't have a ton of stuff against them from the get go.
 
Colliefreak said, True, but there are always contributing factors, IMO. And for the sake of preventing crimes it is important to learn them & intervene early on.
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While I can see the value of looking at contributing factors, It's one thing to be aware of them but in prevention of crime you may as well try to control contributing factors to prevent bad weather. They are so unpredictable and varied that presently they remain beyond our reach as far as prevention. The best we can do currently is apply contributing factors to use toward intervention when possible.
To be clear, I think that the priority should be to intervene in order to help the kids who are suffering from abuse. A secondary benefit of successfully assisting the kids and their families would be that the kids hopefully do not end up committing these horrible crimes.
 
While I do agree that we need to try and break the cycle of abuse that happens in some families, but I feel that unless you are brain damaged in some way you still should be able to make choices to do good or do bad. Especially well thought patterns of bad choices like his boy made. He iddn't raise his hand to her in anger, he planned this, step by step, at any point in time he could have made the choice to not do it and up to the moment he killed her he could have stopped short, but he didn't, he continued on, it was a choice he made, a decision he could have changed, but he didn't. Life is not all or nothing, at any point he could have stopped, sure he would have still been in some trouble but he wouldn't have been a murderer with the very real possibility of being imprisoned for the rest of his life. And at 15 years old he knew what he was doing but he did it anyway.
 
That's what I don't get in America.

Decades ago, it seems EVERYONE was abused. Now, I'm not saying this in an absolute literal sense, but I'm fairly sure that most of our immigrant ancestors had fairly shitty lives. Maybe I'm unique with that, but I know MY family did. My grandmother tells me all the time about the abuse she endured after coming to America, and hell - that makes sense when you consider her mother was raised in an orphanage in another country (after both her parents were killed) and her father (who was sexually abused by an uncle) bought her to be shipped to him in another country. Every day was torture for her (my GGM) who cranked out 3 kids while working in a factory and not speaking the language. Despite abusing his wife & all of the kids, none of them grew into criminals. My uncle ran away to join the army at 11 (found a drunk to forge his papers in a bar) and my granny & her sister both became wives at a young age, but the abuse stopped with the kids. Right then and there. It wasn't even a question.

It was the same thing on the other side of my family - my grandparents on my other side also came from another country and they also had similar difficulties coming to America. Discrimination was rampant, and hitting was not frowned upon back then.

None of my four grandparents grew up to hit.

None of my four grandparents had any criminal records whatsoever - in fact, if it weren't for the awesomeness of each one of them, I wouldn't be the fantastic & most incredibly fabulous person I am today. I seriously think about my MGM often in my day to day life, and of all the beatings she'd endured in her life. If it weren't for her suffering through all of those beatings in her orphanage before getting more at her own home from her husband (who bought her), I wouldn't be here.

NOWHERE in the chain did anyone say they were screwed. NOWHERE in the chain did anyone say that they were owed better or deserved better (though honestly, who would deny them that) and NOWHERE in the chain did anyone do anything other than work their asses off to better the chances for their future generations.

Why in the world has this thought process been tossed to the wayside?

I know there are still people in America like them out there - I meet them - but so few and far between that it's sad. It seems like today everyone has the victim mentality, and this is taking us nowhere good fast.

The older I get the more I understand how Nature really does play a role in a person's Nurturing. I used to think how one was nurtured was entirely and completely in control, but I've seen too many people get the same nurture - with drastically different results. I think that there are truly some jackasses getting natured out there, and unless life nurtures them a kick in the ass, we're gonna be left with a bunch of jails filled with a bunch of innocent victims like here.

And it makes me sick to my stomach, because raising my kids - while knowing this - well, shit. This is a definite negative to having a prosecutor as a mother. An immigrant raised prosecutor for a mother, at that.
 
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@witzah, exactly what I've been trying to say, but you have said oh so much better. Life should have gotten so much better for everyone with all the computers, cars, etc, but people seems to be going down the crapper. Mostly they don't KNOW how bad life could be, since they've never really had it so bad, but they don't know it.

My mother grew up with a drunk for a father and her mother was disabled with epilepsy, most days their supper was berries they gathered in the field behind their shack. She had 6 older brothers and sisters that died at birth, all only spaced about a year apart, only she and her younger sister lived. They moved everytime the rent came due and family got tired of helping them. But she and her sister never hurt a soul, they just got on with life. What really has changed so drastically with our young folks.
 
To be clear, I think that the priority should be to intervene in order to help the kids who are suffering from abuse. A secondary benefit of successfully assisting the kids and their families would be that the kids hopefully do not end up committing these horrible crimes.

You have to consider that when an adolescent lures, rapes and murders a child, disposes of her body and then shows up to search for her...that he might just be beyond help. America and the west has a youth problem...this shit is happening every day.
 
@witzah, exactly what I've been trying to say, but you have said oh so much better. Life should have gotten so much better for everyone with all the computers, cars, etc, but people seems to be going down the crapper. Mostly they don't KNOW how bad life could be, since they've never really had it so bad, but they don't know it.

My mother grew up with a drunk for a father and her mother was disabled with epilepsy, most days their supper was berries they gathered in the field behind their shack. She had 6 older brothers and sisters that died at birth, all only spaced about a year apart, only she and her younger sister lived. They moved everytime the rent came due and family got tired of helping them. But she and her sister never hurt a soul, they just got on with life. What really has changed so drastically with our young folks.

What a relief, hearing that I'm not alone here. Every story, every day, frustrates me more and more. I really wonder what it might take to turn this society around - if anything could. It seems like the only way things could possibly get better (for the masses, which includes these fringe elements) would be to get a swift kick in the ass. I think that's the problem....the person that should be around doing that kicking (providing consequences, teaching us to take responsibility) has disappeared from the picture.

Is it possible for a group of people brought up lazy and expecting everything - underservedly - to be reigned in? I think, if at all, it's going to be an unpleasant experience. For the masses. Like, a revolution of sorts. Not anything in our lifetime, but something from the movies, lifetimes in the future....

I swear, thinking like this makes my brain roll in loops and come back repeatedly to the question of WHY. The only answer I can ever come up with is we are the procrastinating space kid's science project - You know, the one who waits to the last minute all the time - and this time he turned in the EARTH! Complete with HUMANS! Watch them grow! Watch them discover! Watch them debate good over evil! Watch them manipulate every possible scenario into a variety of twisted new outcomes! And (just like fruit flies in a glass jar) watch them continue to multiply before finally reducing their population to extinction! B+, BILLY!
 
You have to consider that when an adolescent lures, rapes and murders a child, disposes of her body and then shows up to search for her...that he might just be beyond help. America and the west has a youth problem...this shit is happening every day.
I agree, but I mean much younger. When a kid is homeless and living in homeless shelters moving around with a potentially violent and somewhat neglectful mother, there needs to be some sort of help and support for the family. After school programs, counseling, etc.
 
Cops have been limited in their comments regarding the killing. However, a source revealed to The Chronicle that the girl was lured into the suspect’s home with hopes of receiving a treat. The source says that while she was consuming the treat, the suspect came from behind and grabbed her. Surveillance video shows the teenage suspect putting the body inside the apartment complex’s dumpster minutes before Middleton’s mom made the call about her missing daughter, the source adds.

As for a motive, the boy says he was thinking about committing suicide and killed the girl to see people’s reactions to her death, the source says.
 
An 8-year-old girl whose body was discovered last month in a recycling bin at a residential complex in the seaside California city of Santa Cruz died of asphyxiation and stab wounds to the neck, officials said on Thursday.

Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office spokesman Lieutenant Kelly Kent said the coroner ruled Madyson Middleton's death a homicide. Prior to the discovery of her body, she was last seen on the evening of July 26 riding a scooter at the Tannery Arts Center housing complex.

Adrian Jerry Gonzalez, 15, was charged as an adult with lying in wait before kidnapping, raping and killing Middleton. Gonzalez appeared in court last month but entered no plea, and a subsequent arraignment was scheduled for Sept. 21, according to the Santa Cruz County District Attorney's Office.
http://news.yahoo.com/california-girl-eight-died-asphyxiation-stab-wounds-officials-220723530.html
 
An 8-year-old girl whose body was discovered last month in a recycling bin at a residential complex in the seaside California city of Santa Cruz died of asphyxiation and stab wounds to the neck, officials said on Thursday.


The story I read today said the coroner's cause of death was "positional asphyxia" and stab wounds to the neck. This means she was alive when he put her in the bin. Just think about that one for a moment. I would expect any sane jury to deliberate for a very short time in this case.

Madyson was "wedged inside a garbage can and stabbed in the neck by another person," according to Middleton's death certificate. Sheriff's Lt. Kelly Kent said Madyson was not strangled, but died from positional asphyxiation because of the way her body was placed in the recycling bin near her home.​

http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-co...on-middleton-santa-cruz-was-strangled-stabbed

This makes the fact that the authorities have video of the evil scum putting this child in the bin even more poignant and disturbing. RIP little Madyson.

20150813_030357_MADDY1_zpst8robmdy.jpg


(Photo and the following text excerpt are from the above link.)

* * *
Laura Jordan, Madyson's mother, said her daughter was "good at everything." Jordan met Thursday with a group that is organizing Madyson's celebration of life Aug. 23 in Santa Cruz.

Prosecutors have charged another Tannery resident, 15-year-old A.J. Gonzalez, with murder, forcible rape, lewd acts with a child younger than 14 and rape by instrument. According to the charging document, Middleton was tied up, beaten, raped and dumped in the bin.

* * *
There were some warning signs about Gonzalez' behavior, including the alleged abuse of his own dog about three years ago. Earlier this year, a parent at Santa Cruz High also told Gonzalez to stay away from her daughter after Gonzalez followed the girl and waited for her outside a private piano lesson.

* * *​

And I'll bet nothing was really done about the dog abuse and stalking behavior, excuse me, the "alleged" dog abuse and stalking behavior. This is a clear example of the importance of responding to the early warning signs of psycopathy. It's apparently possible to affect the later actions of developing psychopaths through evidence-based training practices. In Minnesota, at the Mendota Juvenile Treatment Center (MJTC), they are using something called the "Decompression Model" and getting significant results.

There's a quite interesting article about it here.:

http://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/07/can_psychopaths_be_cured.html

The article concludes that if "we can identify and treat pyschopaths early on, thousands of lives might just be saved." One of those lives might be another Madyson.
 
What a dirty little fucker. That baby choked to death on her own blood? Can you imagine how afraid she was the entire time.
I know they can't kill the fucker and that's a shame coz he deserves it so can they please oh please put him in a cell by himself for the next forever.
 
adrian-jerry-gonzalez.jpg

A Santa Cruz teenager charged with rape and murder in the death of an 8-year-old neighbor could be released from custody at 23 years old if prosecuted as a minor, authorities said Wednesday during Santa Cruz County’s first-ever hearing to determine whether a juvenile should be tried as an adult.

Adrian “A.J.” Gonzalez was 15 years old when he was charged with offenses including murder with the special circumstances of lying in wait, murder in the course of forcible rape, and kidnapping in the July 2015 death of Madyson “Maddy” Middleton.

A judge will determine whether Gonzalez — who was initially charged as an adult — will be tried in juvenile or adult court.

Such hearings became mandatory in California with the passage of Proposition 57 in 2016. Before, it was up to prosecutors to decide whether juveniles would be tried as adults. Now, juvenile court judges determine whether minors will go through the adult criminal justice system.

The differences are vast. Gonzalez, for example, could be sentenced to life in prison if convicted as an adult. Santa Cruz County District Attorney Jeff Rosell said Wednesday that’s what Gonzalez deserves, rather than a stint in a juvenile justice facility that would end when he’s 23.
“The court is looking at the sophistication of the crime and the factors surrounding that,” Rosell said outside court “The details are shocking and disturbing.”

Public Defender Larry Biggam, representing Gonzalez, said his client is autistic and has shown that he could be rehabilitated in juvenile detention.

“The crime is horrible. But the kid’s responding to the structure and the services and the stability of the juvenile hall in a remarkable way,” Biggam said. “I think he needs to be treated because of all the trauma in his life.”

Authorities say Gonzalez, who is now 17, used ice cream to lure Maddy to his apartment unit at the Tannery Arts Center. He is accused of raping her, stabbing her in the neck and dumping her in a recycling bin, where she died of positional asphyxiation.

In arguing that Gonzalez doesn’t belong in adult court, the defense is calling several child psychiatrists and psychologists to the stand. One of them, Steven Capasso, a supervisor at the county’s children mental health center, testified Wednesday that Gonzalez has Asperger’s syndrome, one of the traits of which is difficulty with social interactions.

Capasso cited Gonzalez’s reaction to his mother on the day he was arrested.

“She was just crying, just crying like a baby,” Capasso said. “He just stood there.”

He said he has met with Gonzalez once a week in the past two years, and that the teenager had been depressed and cut himself before the killing.

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Teen-accused-of-Santa-Cruz-girl-s-murder-seeks-12178261.php

34893378-maddy1111-jpg.jpg
 
Fuck him. He had a traumatic upbringing and has Asperbergers. Guess what? So do I motherfucker. Haven't done anything even a fraction this horrible.

Fuck him.
 
If the judge sends him away for 5 years I hope the girl's father offers him a ride at his release.
 
The west has a youth problem they need to deal with...and a parent problem considering someone designed this 15 year old who hates his living in an apartment complex, no money, no opportunity life so much so that he will murder a little girl for a little bit of power.
Or a hard cock. Just saying.
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Poor sweet little girl . It's been a while since we had a true snatched and murdered child in the news and it's always heartbreaking . A parents worst nightmare and one we can all empathise with the family on .

If the boy did it , what can you say about him except something's gone badly wrong or he's a bad egg and sadly odds are he will probably always be a bad egg too. I would hate to be his Mother right now too.

Although 15 year olds are crazier than a box of frogs , regarding earlier comments , I was just thinking of how yes it is interesting how some people will blame a child for a crime and be angry but not at an animal who attacks , when really deep down we are meant to blame neither - but IMO in comparison I still rate teens knowledge of right from wrong slightly higher over a canine as dogs really primarily go on instinct and are animals , so although teens make major mistakes that go beyond comprehension , one murdering another child just takes it that bit further - it's a bad seed is what it is, regardless .

Although I cannot ever wish rape on another living being regardless of crime - I can't take pleasure in that act , because of the mindset behind it - but for the majority of killers and abusers I do feel nothing else suits but to put them to permanent sleep , because some people just forfeit the right to exist in society by their actions which damage so many and will never change .

Children killing children is a grey area because whilst we want the perpetrator punished you know they are still technically a child theirselves. So you see the face of a child and struggle to comprehend how they could do such an act . It goes against your natural instincts to see a baby face knowing Theyve done so wrong .

Then , Sometimes the crime is so heinous that for all your understanding of humanity - a little voice takes over and you cannot help but just think Oh for fucks sake - I hope the little shit dies . But it's a kid , but FFs why etc etc

So ummm yeah , I'm rambling . Time for meds.
Bad seed. He's 15 ffs. He definitely does not need to be ever loosened upon our population. Ever. The Bad Seed. That movie still scares me to death. Doess anyone else remember seeing that movie as a kid?
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Doughboy.
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Bull Fucking SHIT! He knew enough to trick her into his apartment, kill her then conceal her body. Maybe he's not Einstein, but he's not brain damaged either, obviously he knew that hitting her, stabbing her, and whatever else he did, that I don't want to know, would result in her death. Even a 5 year old knows that.

This is what's wrong with some kids now, they're getting excused because they "couldn't possibly understand". !00 years ago, some 15 year olds were working men with families to support and they managed to understand what they needed to do, what has changed in the brains of our youth today, I think nothing, just psychologist type people making excuses for them.
Yes yes yes! Stupid Berkely professor. And that's what's wrong with society. Excuses.
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1) I am extremely sorry for what you went through and grateful that it sounds as if you all have the resilience to overcome it as best you all could. Not all people have that resilience (compare Elizabeth Smart to someone else who goes through a similar experience and comes out with debilitating ptsd and you can see what I mean by resilience). A good friend of mine was extremely neglected by heroin addict parents and spent her whole childhood sitting in front of the tv. She has a great career doing what she loves, a solid relationship, many friends, and a full happy life. Our past does not necessarily define us, this is true.
2) The perpetrator of this crime had a rough life and his mother was apparently absent much of the time and could be abusive. This is not an excuse but it explains factors that contributed to his rage.
3) While many people who are sexually abused do not go on to abuse children (thank god), others do take on the role of identifying with the abuser. That is why it is common knowledge that there can be a cycle of abuse. Not everyone turns out the same way, but the differences mostly have to do with protective factors (ie. at the very least good genes and resilience but often there is at least one positive role model or influence in the kid's life).
4) I know it is irritating to hear what sounds like excuses in court or on here, but many people are curious/have a need to know *why* when something like this happens. Sure there can be psychopaths who are just completely wired wrong and come from loving backgrounds with no known trauma and go on to commit heinous crimes. But that doesn't mean that a lot of violent criminals don't have a ton of stuff against them from the get go.
I didn't read that about the mother. I read she was crying hysterically when they took her monster away in cuffs.
 
this has r/incels written all over, have you guys ever checked that page out on reddit? it's FULL of guys feeling sorry for themselves, deep violent hatred of females and fantasies of killing. many teens on there. it's creepy and scary.
 
If the judge sends him away for 5 years I hope the girl's father offers him a ride at his release.
from what I remember of this case I don't think there was one around
No kumbaya excuses in this cases: he deserves to be tried as an adult & sentenced with life or the dp. This was premeditated imo and there's no redemption nor do I care even if there were. Personally I think people like this are too broken to worry about fixing.
yes with the incel business they are enabling each other and putting the ity party to further getting themselves and each other worked up to where there will be mire cases like this. Remember the creepy case on there of the guy with the kidnap keep rapething goinng on in his head?
 
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this has r/incels written all over, have you guys ever checked that page out on reddit? it's FULL of guys feeling sorry for themselves, deep violent hatred of females and fantasies of killing. many teens on there. it's creepy and scary.
Holy crap, I heard about these guys, but never checked them out. What a bunch of fucking losers. With my personality and physique up into my early 20s I would have been a prime candidate for this pathetic sub-set. I was tall, but very thin, gangling and had, what would be today called, minor Aspergers. No coordination, so I sucked at sports, I loved science, stuttered a bit (especially on my h's and n's), walked with my head down in hallways, all of my close friends were nerds/geeks (not modern ones, but 1980 uncool ones) and I was very much afraid to talk to girls in romantic pursuit.

When I was about 16, I began to think my problem was a lack of confidence, so I decided to fake confidence. Wow, that worked, a lot. I was still unattractively gangling, still saw the world a bit differently than normal people, keep reading about science and had nerds as my friends, but even though I still sucked at sports I now participated in them, my stuttering started to lessen and I began to talk to girls and go on dates. Eventually, my fake confidence became real. I credit all of my success to that one bit of self examination and that's what these r/incels fucking losers are lacking. Their lack of confidence blunts their attempts to start a relationship, then their failure is directed as anger to the object of the failure (woman). Pathetic, really.
 
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@Craygor

You know, I go on there and try to somehow talk those guys into 'faking it till you make it'. But they are so 'black pilled' as soon as they find out you are a female they start harassing you and threatening you, so I just left. Those are the kind of entitled shits that believe they deserve supermodels and hate all women because even the '5' girls won't give them the time of day. They think it's because they are 'subhuman' in looks... not realizing it's their damn attitudes.

It's an interesting and terrifying look at a bunch of young sociopaths in training.
 
@Annika Zoe , they are in a crowded echo chamber and everyone has a megaphone. They hear what they want to hear and, to them, the easiest answer is always the best. The easiest is 'its not their fault, their misfortune is caused by other people'. Self examination is hard, because they would be forced to acknowledge they have faults and must work to correct them, its much easier to lay blame elsewhere. Its like when unfit people are angry at healthy ones. You know how many times I hear one of my fat co-workers tell me I'm lucky to have great genetics and that I have it easy? Eventually, I'll say "no mother fucker, I work out 5 days a week and don't shove 3 donuts down my throat with a Pepsi chaser every god damn morning." Those people are a lot like the r/incel fucktards, they don't want responsibility for their own lives, but they demand to have all the perks that comes along with the life of self responsibility. Idiots.
 
A Santa Cruz County judge ruled that a teenager charged with rape and murder in the slaying of an 8-year-old neighbor will be prosecuted as an adult — eliminating the possibility he could be released at age 23 if convicted as a minor, court officials said.

Adrian “A.J.” Gonzalez was 15 years old when he was charged with offenses including murder with the special circumstances of lying in wait, murder in the course of forcible rape, and kidnapping in the July 2015 death of Madyson “Maddy” Middleton.

Gonzalez, now 18, had spent years in juvenile hall but was immediately placed into adult custody Tuesday after Santa Cruz County Superior Court Judge John Salazar ruled the teenager would be tried as an adult, said Sue Huckins, a court spokeswoman.

With Tuesday’s decision, Gonzalez could face life in prison if convicted. He will now re-enter the court system, this time as an adult, with an arraignment scheduled for the end of November.

Throughout the juvenile transfer hearing, Santa Cruz County District Attorney Jeff Rosell argued the sophistication of the crime, as well as its “shocking and disturbing details,” warranted adult court.

Public Defender Larry Biggam, representing Gonzalez, said Wednesday he plans to appeal the ruling because his client had suffered years of childhood trauma, was responding well to treatment at juvenile hall and has been “a model inmate.”

The kid needs more assessment and treatment,” Biggam said. “As a result of the judge’s ruling, he will now receive no treatment and will be exposed to a toxic adult prison environment.”

Authorities said Gonzalez used ice cream to lure Maddy to his apartment unit at the Tannery Arts Center. He is accused of raping her, stabbing her in the neck and dumping her in a recycling bin, where she died of positional asphyxiation.

Supporters outraged at the possibility Gonzalez would be tried as a juvenile sat in court throughout the trial. Maddy’s grandfather, Dan Middleton, started an online petition in July, seeking to have Gonzalez tried as an adult. The petition garnered 7,875 supporters.

Tuesday, Middleton posted an update with the subject line, “Victory!”

“It has been ruled that Adrian Gonzalez will be tried as an adult,” his post read. “Thank you for your support for the protection of our children.”

http://www.sfgate.com/crime/article/Teen-to-be-tried-as-an-adult-in-rape-and-killing-12306671.php

Mr. Biggam Mady will not get to experience anything
 

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