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Heather Hironimus Jailed For Not Agreeing To Have Her 4yo Circumsized.

Keepalowprofile said:
@BostonBurns

My ex was circumcised at one day old. Too much skin was removed.
Every erection was painful and left his penis with a constant sore spot.

I do not support this procedure on infants. The child ahould Be allowed to make that decision at a later age.
In rare cases it could be medically necessary but not all and certainly not enough of a problem to make it a blanket decision to circumcise every male.

Also
Ear piercing and circumcised are not comparables. The skin can not be restored Like pierced ears csn simply have the earrings remived.
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Circumcision has proven medical benefits, ear piercing does not, under any circumstances, but people readily do it to their young children. That was my point. If you are arguing that circumcision in not a medically necessary procedure, then i would counter that piercing a baby's ears is an even less-beneficial medical procedure, but some poo poo the fact that it's a medical procedure at all, because it is unregulated and allowed to be performed by heroin addicts in tatoo parlors.
 
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BostonBurns said:
What also further amazes me, is that people who would scream at the top of their lungs about how "unnecessary " circumcision is, have no problems with mutilating their baby girls by piercing their ears!

http://www.mayoclinic.org/tests-procedures/circumcision/basics/why-its-done/prc-20013585
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While that's probably true, nothing is removed when a baby girl's ears are pierced. The procedure as an adult is not really all that painful (if done properly)—as others have already pointed out—so I have to guess it's similarly non-traumatic as a baby. And with ear piercing, the holes will close up and heal if not used—at that point, who can even tell it ever happened? The same is just not true with circumcision.

These two parents are clearly very f-d up. I just can't imaging taking a 4 year old into a medical setting and telling him that we were about to cut off part of his penis. :nailbiting: At this point, why not wait till 18 and let him make his own decision?
 
As far as ear piercing being compared to circumcision, I don't think that's a realistic comparison. One that is, is female mutilation. It's against the will of the child and is done with rusty, dirty tools. No pain killer, no washing up. Just hold her up and let some nasty man slice her clitoris off, her labia, sew her up to close the vagina almost completely, leaving an opening only large enough for her menses to come out and her urine. Many times she will get a raging infection and fever, coupled with intense pain. If she lives through it, and marries a man her father chooses, she will have "surgery" to open it all up again. Ain't life grand?

But in the circumcision case, that's ridiculous. At his age, he wouldn't "get over it" very quickly and it could cause emotional scarring. What judge would insist on it? The things we do to our children. *smh*
 
Sue sue said:
Circuit and appellate judges have sided with the father
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disgusted4sho said:
I agree. Maybe theres more to the story....
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I agree with you. The politics of circumcision takes the focus away from the particulars in this case. Why would multiple judges side with the father for an unnecessary procedure? This is what I don't get. For a medically unnecessary prodecure, why not step away and say it's a family decision, not theirs?

Is there something related to the boy's health that makes this medically necessary? It could be he's getting repeated infections and a circumcision is advised by his doctors for his health, and his mom is still adamant about leaving him intact.

So yeah, @disgusted4sho , I think there's more to the story than what's appearing in the media. It might be closer to the mother withholding medical care for the child than forcing the child to have an unnecessary procedure.
 
DIAFplease said:
His penis was red and raw and had bits of cotton stuck to it.
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That's not typical after a circumcision. I'm not saying that your friend was doing anything wrong but it's possible that the hospital did.

Circumcised boys need A&D ointment applied at every diaper change to promote healing, protect the penis from infection and to keep the diaper or anything else from sticking to the circumcision site.

Personally, I believe that circumcision is a decision for the parents to make between themselves. My boys are all circumcised, that is what their father and I decided before they were born. But that's what we chose for our boys, what you choose for your is up to you guys.

With this story, I don't know. I think the parents are being juvenile and now this little guy is stuck in a mess and no one wins. He's likely petrified of the thought of circumcision at this point so even if Dad "wins" his son still loses. I think they should have grown up and discussed this like rational adults before the courts had to get involved. But that's just my two cents on it as someone who hates the idea of courts and judges being involved in a decision like that in my life, it seems they don't share my dislike of that prospect.
 
Interesting debate! Just to inject a little perspective from another culture, in Albania, boys get circumcised when they're 12, and it's at a big ceremony with your dad, and all your brothers and uncles watching. My friend said his brother passed out at his just from watching! No thanks!
 
Its not exactly forced, it's kind of like a Bar Mitzvah, to the best of my knowledge, only culminating with a wiener slicin'. I'm not from there, but this is how it was kind of explained to me by my old college roommate and good friend who was from Kososvo.
 
DIAFplease said:
Also, my in-laws tried to convince me that my son wouldn't be able to go to heaven if he wasn't cut because that's what Jesus would want.

:shifty::shifty: <---- my response to that
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I agree. I am a huge supporter of body modification, having many tattoos and piercings myself, not that you would know from seeing me with my clothes on. I believe that it is ones personal choice to alter their birth body. I hated that my parents pierced my ears when I was young, so much so that I stopped wearing them when I was 6 and didn't get them pierced again until I was in HS. My ex husband whom is circumcised gives me grief to this day over not having our son circumcised. He says other people will laugh at him. I said, if someone is close enough to his penis to care then its probably not going to matter. It seems the only one who cares about the look of my son's penis is my ex-husband.
 
Raw Story said:
Florida mother agrees to circumcise 4-year-old son after being jailed for a week
Reuters 22 May 2015 at 14:32 ET

[...]

Crying in a state courtroom in Palm Beach County, Florida, she consented to the procedure shortly after a judge ordered her to remain jailed until signing off on it, the newspaper reported.

She still faces a charge of interference with child custody, according to the Palm Beach Post.

A lawyer for the child's father, Dennis Nubus, said a date for the circumcision had not been scheduled, the Post reported.

The procedure may take place out of state, as Nubus has received death threats from anti-circumcision activists, the Post reported.

[...]
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/05/flo...4-year-old-son-after-being-jailed-for-a-week/

Of course, always with the death threats.
 
A Florida mother consented on Friday to allowing her 4-year-old son to be circumcised, ending a legal battle with the child's father, according to media reports.
Heather Hironimus, 31, was jailed for a week after hiding out with the child for months after a protracted court fight to block the circumcision, the Sun Sentinel newspaper reported.
Crying in a state courtroom in Palm Beach County, Florida, she consented to the procedure shortly after a judge ordered her to remain jailed until signing off on it, the newspaper reported.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...?utm_hp_ref=crime&ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in
 
C'mon, like this chick doesn't look fucking crazy?
5HWIa01.jpg


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2015/...?utm_hp_ref=crime&ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in

At this point, I think the circumcision is a mute point, and should be left to the kid to make the decision as an adult. I also would have to question the medical ethics of any physician who agrees to perform the procedure knowing that the mother was coerced by the courts with the threat of jail.

I think the bottom line here is that this case illustrates the whole point of having children with partners with whom you are in a relationship, and being able to make agreeable decisions based upon what is in the child's best interest.
 
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@BostonBurns , now I'm feeling bad for her. I see minor expressions of a genetic condition in her mug shot. I could be wrong tho, but I can't help noticing her low-set ears and narrow jaw. Maybe I'm wrong. Or I'm not and she's trying her best to live life normally. IDK. :oops:
 
Kittyskyfish said:
@BostonBurns , now I'm feeling bad for her. I see minor expressions of a genetic condition in her mug shot. I could be wrong tho, but I can't help noticing her low-set ears and narrow jaw. Maybe I'm wrong. Or I'm not and she's trying her best to live life normally. IDK. :oops:
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You're absolutely right, I hadn't looked that closely at her. Thanks for pointing that out, because at the very least she looks a little inbread or something.

On second thought, maybe it's just wear and tear from jail, because she does clean-up pretty well.
more images: https://www.google.com/search?q=hea...HFgVayyAoiNsAXk0oCgDA&ved=0CAYQ_AUoAQ#imgrc=_
j1YmjRd.jpg
 
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BostonBurns said:
You're absolutely right, I hadn't looked that closely at her. Thanks for pointing that out, because at the very least she looks a little inbread or something.

On second thought, maybe it's just wear and tear from jail, because she does clean-up pretty well.
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:hilarious:

In the mug shot she's got her head tilted slightly to one side, giving the appearance that one side of her face is melting. Most other pictures of her appear fairly normal, other than her having a really narrow chin.

Her facebook. Pictures of the boy in question at the link. I won't post them, even though media outlets are now posting them. He's a doll. I can't imagine looking at that face and wanting to inflict the kind of pain that circumcising him at this age will inflict.

https://www.facebook.com/heather.hironimus.3
 
What really bugs me about this all is that the courts are breaking laws and setting dangerous precedents in order to force her to sign.

she consented to the procedure shortly after a judge ordered her to remain jailed until signing off on it
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That is unlawful confinement. Plus the agreement the judge just forced her to sign is null and void because of that fact, he forced her to sign. Medical consent has to be given of free will and there are specific terms that state it cannot be given under duress or through coercion.

Regarding medical consent, you are allowed to withdraw consent at any time. Period. It doesn't matter that she had a parental agreement with prior consent. What matters is that she withdrew consent. Her no legally means no doctor can touch that child. The court cannot force her to give consent to treatment that isn't deemed medically necessary, and I'm pretty sure if it was medically necessary we'd have heard that by now. This late in the game it's purely cosmetic and no court can override consent for cosmetic purposes.
 
At this age, you need to decide what's best for the child and I feel it would hurt him more than benefit him.... That being said ..
You chose to have a child together .. Get your head out of your ass lady and learn to CO PARENT.. your not in charge .. YOU BOTH ARE.. I think the judge should have punished her for not following what they both agreed to.. Probation.. Fines.. And even couple weeks in jail.. Something to make her realize she can't just do whatever she wants..
Having him circumsized now is punishing the boy for her f... Up.. Jmo
 
Lauralye said:
You chose to have a child together .. Get your head out of your ass lady and learn to CO PARENT.. your not in charge .. YOU BOTH ARE.. I think the judge should have punished her for not following what they both agreed to.. Probation.. Fines.. And even couple weeks in jail.. Something to make her realize she can't just do whatever she wants..
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You make it seem like it's all her fault. It's clearly both of the parents who are at fault. I can't fault her just for withdrawing consent for something as simple as circumcision. She has that right. It's not like she denied life saving treatment.

In my opinion the dad is showing more malice and unwillingness to co-parent. He's the one who wants to slice his 4 year old's penis up just to stick it to his ex. That's more detrimental to the child then his mom saying no. The dad is the one pushing the courts, he's the one who's drug this out for years and the reason his child has become an international spectacle about something very personal and private. He could have just used this as a way of terminating some of her rights privately in court, instead it's become a media circus with people protesting both sides. He just wants to publicly punish his ex.
 
This is a fine line that we are crossing by the courts being able to force a parent to circumcise which is cosmetic. I could understand cancer treatment or something that is life threatening but this is not in the best interest of the child. We did not circ our son but I have told him if he wants it done as an adult that's his choice. It's his penis not mine or his dads. I also let my girls decide if and when they want their ears pierced even though I think it's adorable on babies JMO
 
Well done dad. :penguin:

I really doubt this child is going to thank his father later for removing a bit of foreskin, while dragging him through the courts, and legally harassing and having his mother jailed.

This boy has to go under general anesthesia to get this done now. Thats a risk in itself. Fucking ridiculous.
 
I cried when my number one son was circumcised...Just knowing they were going to cut him sent me right over the edge...But when my best middle guy got snipped, he slept through the whole thing, and gave the Doctor a sleepy smile when they cut him. By the time it was yaks turn...I was like...shrug!
 
Sudonim said:
You make it seem like it's all her fault. It's clearly both of the parents who are at fault. I can't fault her just for withdrawing consent for something simple as circumcision. She has that right. It's not like she denied life saving treatment.

In my opinion the dad is showing more malice and unwillingness to co-parent. He's the one who wants to slice his 4 year old's penis up just to stick it to his ex. That's more detrimental to the child then his mom saying no. The dad is the one pushing the courts, he's the one who's drug this out for years and the reason his child has become an international spectacle about something very personal and private. He could have just used this as a way of terminating some of her rights privately in court, instead it's become a media circus with people protesting both sides. He just wants to publicly punish his ex.
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They worked out a parenting plan together.. Took the time to file it in court..if she had a problem with it..SHE SHOULD NOT HAVE SIGNED THE PAPER....is he being a ass by enforcing this procedure on a 4yo ..YES..but she was being a ass by breaking the contract to begin with ..you say all this is on the dad ..he has made the courts push this.. Well the same can be said about the mom.. If she had kept her word than the courts would have never stepped in....this whole thing is on both of them..
You say she changed her mind on a SIMPLE THING ..if its so simple than why not just follow through...
I hate when a parent thinks they have the final say....responsible ..good.. Loving..parents...sit down like 2 adults and work it out... ..that is what is best for the child... ..
 
lithiumgirl said:
I cried when my number one son was circumcised...Just knowing they were going to cut him sent me right over the edge...But when my best middle guy got snipped, he slept through the whole thing, and gave the Doctor a sleepy smile when they cut him. By the time it was yaks turn...I was like...shrug!
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I love the way you refer to your sons ..its so sweet ..ive always referred to mine (i have 3) .my faviorite first born.(boy) my favirite daughter.(my only daughter) and my favorite baby..(boy)...my oldest is now in heaven and my other 2 are both in the army but they still smile when i say it ..<3
Your the first mom ive heard use similar terms..:)
 
Lauralye said:
At this age, you need to decide what's best for the child and I feel it would hurt him more than benefit him.... That being said ..
You chose to have a child together .. Get your head out of your ass lady and learn to CO PARENT.. your not in charge .. YOU BOTH ARE.. I think the judge should have punished her for not following what they both agreed to.. Probation.. Fines.. And even couple weeks in jail.. Something to make her realize she can't just do whatever she wants..
Having him circumsized now is punishing the boy for her f... Up.. Jmo
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She agreed to have him circumcised when he was a baby. The father was supposed to pay for it and schedule it(the boy lives with the father), he failed to do so for years. The mother decided to revoke her consent because she felt he was to old and it would only cause him harm. When she revoked her consent, the father took her to court and the end result is this media circus.

I don't understand how people are blaming the mom when the dad is the one who stalled getting it done for so long. In my opinion the mom did what any mom should have..she put her child's welfare first and foremost.

It hasn't been posted here yet. But she only gave consent after they were already fighting in court. The boy was 2 when she caved and gave consent. The father left it until he turned 4 before deciding it needed to be done. They've spent the last few months battling it out in court and her showing up at doctors offices to block it.
 
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Sudonim said:
She agreed to have him circumcised when he was a baby. The father was supposed to pay for it and schedule it(the boy lives with the father), he failed to do so for years. The mother decided to revoke her consent because she felt he was to old and it would only cause him harm. When she revoked her consent, the father took her to court and the end result is this media circus.

I don't understand how people are blaming the mom when the dad is the one who stalled getting it done for so long. In my opinion the mom did what any mom should have..she put her child's welfare first and foremost.

It hasn't been posted here yet. But she only gave consent after they were already fighting in court. The boy was 2 when she caved and gave consent. The father left it until he turned 4 before deciding it needed to be done. They've spent the last few months battling it out in court and her showing up at doctors offices to block it.
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If this is true than the judge is way over the line and needs to be removed from the bench. Obviously the judge is not taking any consideration the hazards he his going to force this child through.
 
Sudonim said:
She agreed to have him circumcised when he was a baby. The father was supposed to pay for it and schedule it(the boy lives with the father), he failed to do so for years. The mother decided to revoke her consent because she felt he was to old and it would only cause him harm. When she revoked her consent, the father took her to court and the end result is this media circus.

I don't understand how people are blaming the mom when the dad is the one who stalled getting it done for so long. In my opinion the mom did what any mom should have..she put her child's welfare first and foremost.

It hasn't been posted here yet. But she only gave consent after they were already fighting in court. The boy was 2 when she caved and gave consent. The father left it until he turned 4 before deciding it needed to be done. They've spent the last few months battling it out in court and her showing up at doctors offices to block it.
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There's some reason why it wasn't done when he was a new born, I'd like to know the details on that.
 
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