Survey Claims 1/3 Of Male College Students Would Rape A Woman If They Knew They Wouldn't Get Caught

[mobiusclimber]

See what I mean about you being too stupid for this discussion. Please go find a topic where your IQ level will be a better fit. Please. You obviously lack the reading comprehension necessary for this discussion if your take-away from what I wrote is that I think rape is awesome. This discussion is too sophisticated for your little mind.

 

[DaggerLawless]

I didn't take away that you think rape is awesome. I took away that you don't think that all rape is a violent act that is about power and control. It is a sexual act, yes, but it is not about sexual gratification.
Date rape is still about power and control, if it wasn't why would someone need to drug someone into compliance in order to commit sexual violence against them? Why would someone not take no for an answer and then force themselves on another person if not to assert power?
Just because there isn't brutality involved doesn't mean that it's about sex. Rape will alway be about power and control.
Sorry you're wrong bruh.

 

[everjaded]

See what I mean about you being too stupid for this discussion. Please go find a topic where your IQ level will be a better fit. Please. You obviously lack the reading comprehension necessary for this discussion if your take-away from what I wrote is that I think rape is awesome. This discussion is too sophisticated for your little mind.

C'mon man, you can't get all uppity about someone "busting out personal attacks" on you, and then IMMEDIATELY respond with personal attacks.

Kind of negates any argument you may have had, or small measure of sympathy you might have gained, had you taken the higher road.

 

[Forensicwx]

I have to agree here with @everjaded, @mobiusclimber. U sure do scream "personal attack" quite a bit. And it happens just before u start spitting insults about how stupid other members are. How their IQs are substandard to yours. How they aren't smart enough to join "your" conversation. It gets old, seriously.

Chillax dude. Just have a good time in these threads with actual debates. Those include facts and statistics. Or opinion vs opinion. There's no need for flinging shit in each other's faces.

ETA. Someone told me once, the only truly ignorant people in this world, are the ones who don't take the time to consider the facts of the opposing side of the debate.

I agree.

 

[gatekeeper]

Rape is a psychophysiological, invasive, anatomical crime. It is a crime designed to take away the victim's power and control on the deepest psychological level from our earliest toddlerhood - the control of one's own body and the distinct ability/right to decide who is and is not allowed to touch it.

The dick/finger/hand/arm/foreign object, etc., is the weapon used to commit that crime, the psychological "gun", if you will. A penis will become erect and a man can and often WILL orgasm INVOLUNTARILY when he is being raped and I invite you to ask ANY man who has been the victim of RAPE if it was "a sexual act" or he 'liked it' (my implication from it being described as something done b/c someone wants sex), etc.

I think you know I'm not an asshole by nature and I'm not trying to be one now, but if you wanna jump in and talk about what you "think" about rape with vehemence, fire and insults as opposed to what some of us KNOW about rape, you better bring your A game.

 

[DaggerLawless]

I can attest to keepers statement from first hand knowledge. There wasn't anything sexual about my prepubescent body being violated by an adult man. But it did cause a lot of confusion because physiologically my body reacted to the stimulation in what could have been viewed as a pleasureable way. I know I wasn't raped because the man was horny and couldn't get any.

 

[everjaded]

I was also a bit creeped out by the insistence of trying to make a distinction between someone raping for violent/abusive reasons vs. someone who was just horny, and wouldn't have needed to rape anyone, if only they'd have just put out.

In my eyes, that's STILL all about power and control. In that particular scenario, it's the rapist's inability to control their physical urges, and trying to create bullshit justifications for why the rape in this instance is OK, because they aren't strong enough to overcome their baser instincts and remain decent human beings- despite what their dicks may want in the heat of the moment. Being powerless to control your rapey impulses = still ultimately about power and control. I'm struggling to see a distinction. It comes off sounding almost victim-blamey.

Countless men have gone home sexually frustrated at the conclusion of a non-consummated date, and taken matters into their own hands, as it were.

 

[Nell]

See what I mean about you being too stupid for this discussion. Please go find a topic where your IQ level will be a better fit. Please. You obviously lack the reading comprehension necessary for this discussion if your take-away from what I wrote is that I think rape is awesome. This discussion is too sophisticated for your little mind.

Don't bitch about personal attacks if you're gonna personally attack. I like the debate. I fucking hate the whining.

 

[Countess Olenska]

So if I stab you with a knife or shoot you with a bullet, it's rape? Those are unwanted things entering you, right? Hell if I were to shoot up someone's vagina, it still wouldn't be rape unless I used the gun like a dildo first. I don't think you can completely divorce the sexual act from rape, no matter how many contortions you put the language through. Yes, there are sickos out there who rape because it's the most soul-destroying thing they can think of to do. There are also people out there who rape just to get their rocks off, and would have been fine with consensual sex had it been offered. Again, I think it's dangerous to not acknowledge both types of rape.

That's quite the stretch, don't you think?

If a gun was used to violate someone sexually then yes, it would be considered rape. If you stab someone INSIDE the vagina with a knife, YES it would be rape. If you used a gun to stick it up someone's ass and shot, STILL RAPE. I'm not really sure why you aren't getting that no matter how you say it, putting anything unwanted inside a person's genitalia without their consent is always considered rape.

At no point was I arguing that there are different kinds of rape. Of course there are. There are different kinds of dogs too, they're still all a type of dog.

 

[mobiusclimber]

@everjaded - please show me where I said being horny was a justification for rape. This is what I mean. Your take-away has nothing to do with what I said. I think saying that all rape is about power and violence is confusing to young women who have been raped but aren't even able to recognize it for what it was b/c "he loves me, he just couldn't wait anymore." Do you really think if Bill Cosby said "they were drugged with the puddin' pops and the beboppin' and scattin' but I didn't use the violence and I already had the power over them so it couldn't have been rape" would that exonerate his many many crimes? My point is, by narrowing rape down to this definition, you give potential rapists the idea that they aren't really raping, and you give young girls the idea that they weren't really raped. It seems preposterous to say that the boyfriend who doesn't stop when his girl says "no" is just raping for the feeling of power. No, he's horny and and a fuckin' asshole. If he'd been able to get it without rape, he wouldn't grab a plunger and shove it up her ass or something. Rapists that are raping bc they want to degrade and humiliate someone and want to have power over them aren't going to be appeased if the woman says "ya know, fuck it, here ya go, stick it right in." That's actually very dangerous if you've met one of those types of rapists. There's another type who might even apologize for what he's doing. Then you have date rapists, people who drug drinks in order to rape, and people who see a sleeping person and think "time to get my fuck on!" They are all rapists, but I'd say the reasons for their crimes are quite different. We need to recognize ALL forms of rape, not just some of them.

@Nell - I've been personally attacked twice in this thread before lashing out. Frankly, if someone wants to get off-topic and just swing their little epeen around hoping it gets them laid, they should stop addressing me about it. I dunno if I just look too cute or what, but it's really getting old and pathetic.

@Countess Olenska - My whole point is that rape isn't simply unwanted penetration. You can be penetrated in lots of unwanted ways that aren't rape. So that definition doesn't cover it.

 

[Nell]

I didn't say you weren't attacked. And frankly, I'm sick of people referencing your happy ending thread. BFD. You wanted to get a handy. I'm saying if you're going to get asshurt over PAs then don't do it in return. Makes you look like a whiny bitch.

 

[mobiusclimber]

I have to agree here with @everjaded, @mobiusclimber. U sure do scream "personal attack" quite a bit. And it happens just before u start spitting insults about how stupid other members are. How their IQs are substandard to yours. How they aren't smart enough to join "your" conversation. It gets old, seriously.

Chillax dude. Just have a good time in these threads with actual debates. Those include facts and statistics. Or opinion vs opinion. There's no need for flinging shit in each other's faces.

ETA. Someone told me once, the only truly ignorant people in this world, are the ones who don't take the time to consider the facts of the opposing side of the debate.

I agree.

Go back and read asshole's response to me that starts with "I didn't take away that you think rape is awesome..." See, that's how you fuckin' actually engage in a debate with a person. Not this stupid bullshit he was doing before. Have some well-thought-out points to bring up, not just twist around someone's words, throw in some snark, and then tie it all back to "you visit massage parlors, therefore you're a rapist." WHAT THE EVERLOVING FUCK?! Is it possible to stay on topic here or not? And then "you're a rape apologist and probably a men's rights activist." Like seriously, if this is what passes for debate here, then fuck it, I'm done.

 

[mobiusclimber]

So you're saying unwanted penetration by foreign objects isn't rape? Good to know. Lets put stuff in your ass that you don't want there, cause thats totally cool apparently.

That kind of mentality doesn't surprise me from the guy who considered using a service heavily tied to sex slavery and human trafficking.

THIS RIGHT HERE. "You forgot to mention a type of rape, therefore you think it isn't rape, and I'm going to have a sick sexual fantasy about raping you now. Oh and you're a rapist. Herp de derp!

If you can't actually debate someone with a sensible argument, do it this way! Doesn't matter what their original point is, cuz you just have to be right, regardless. I expect that level of discourse on Facebook, but I really thought you guys were above that.

 

[mobiusclimber]

I didn't say you weren't attacked. And frankly, I'm sick of people referencing your happy ending thread. BFD. You wanted to get a handy. I'm saying if you're going to get asshurt over PAs then don't do it in return. Makes you look like a whiny bitch.

Fuck it I'll look like a whiny bitch. Doesn't change the fact that his argument was both stupid (reading comprehension and just plain old comprehension - as in putting two and two together and getting four - failed miserably) and a personal attack. So yes, I will tell people if they are too stupid to engage in a debate, then they shouldn't engage in one. I'm, to put it bluntly, fed up with what passes for debate these days. If you aren't going to engage in a civilized discussion, then FUCK YOU, go be the next caller on Fox News and go fuck right the fuck off. Period.

 

[Nell]

I really hope all those fuck you's weren't directed at me personally.

I think maybe you should step back for a minute or so.

 

[DaggerLawless]

I pointed out your folly because you explicitly stated that it's only rape if it involves genitals. I never once called you a rapist, I pointed out that you are willing to utilize sex slavery. I did call you a rape apologist, because that's how you come across. Personal opinions are not personal attacks. It seems my opinion struck a huge chord with you. Why is that?

 

[everjaded]

@everjaded - please show me where I said being horny was a justification for rape. This is what I mean. Your take-away has nothing to do with what I said. I think saying that all rape is about power and violence is confusing to young women who have been raped but aren't even able to recognize it for what it was b/c "he loves me, he just couldn't wait anymore."

It seems preposterous to say that the boyfriend who doesn't stop when his girl says "no" is just raping for the feeling of power. No, he's horny and and a fuckin' asshole. If he'd been able to get it without rape, he wouldn't grab a plunger and shove it up her ass or something. Rapists that are raping bc they want to degrade and humiliate someone and want to have power over them aren't going to be appeased if the woman says "ya know, fuck it, here ya go, stick it right in." That's actually very dangerous if you've met one of those types of rapists. There's another type who might even apologize for what he's doing. Then you have date rapists, people who drug drinks in order to rape, and people who see a sleeping person and think "time to get my fuck on!" They are all rapists, but I'd say the reasons for their crimes are quite different.

OK... I've referenced some of your points above- which I'll try to address in this reply-and set aside the tangential Bill Cosby riff, and some of the other weirdness in your post.


I didn't say that you *personally* are of the stance that being horny is a justification for rape. BUT... that being said, you did indeed stress a distinction that you seem to feel should be made between predatory serial rapist types vs. those who may not have sought out rape, had it not been for circumstances leading them to an opportunity to rape, or sudden desire to rape, based on wanting sex and not being offered any satisfaction willingly.


This is from one of your prior posts:

I have a real problem with dismissing rape as being "all about power and control" and not acknowledging that some rapes really are about sex. It's dangerous to say that. There really is such a thing as date rape, and to confuse the issue isn't going to help people (young girls in particular) to recognize and report a rape b/c it was done by their boyfriend or some guy they know. Yeah, if you want to get technical about, not taking no for an answer is about power, but in the immediate sense, date rape is all about "I'm horny and she won't put it, so fuck it, I'm getting some regardless." Hell, some guys will fool themselves into thinking "once I start, she'll just get into it and then it won't be rape!"

What I guess rubs me the wrong way about your argument, ultimately, is this: who the fuck cares about which avenue led the rapist to becoming a rapist? It takes a certain kind of fucked up person to rape someone. It's ALWAYS a gross violation, both physically AND psychologically, and will leave lasting scars- whether they be physical or mental. This is the case regardless of whether a person is attacked in an alley by a masked stranger, or in their own bedroom by a person they thought they could trust.

Why are you debating so strongly to make a distinction there? Ultimately, it takes a scumbag fucking asshole to rape anyone, for any reason. Simple as that. People need to know that if they did not give consent, and were violated, it's rape. I don't see the need for any subcategorization, or dissection of extenuating circumstances to determine what "bucket" their particular rape (or rapist) might fall under.


Why do you?


Finally, I never said rape was about power and violence, I said it was about power and control. So you too, are reading things into my reply which simply were not there. Power and control come in many forms, including psychological control, and manipulation of a person's feelings and emotions in order to twist their interpretation of a situation into something that it's not. I didn't ever state that physical violence had to be part of the definition of rape.

 

[mobiusclimber]

@Nell not a single fuck you was directed at you. In fact, they were very generalized fuck yous. I hope that came across and I apologize if it didn't.

@DaggerLawless - again, that's a very underhanded statement, typical of the kind of debate you like to engage in (scoring points against someone rather than address the actual content of what they're saying). "Let me insinuate all manner of vile things about you, and then when you get pissed off about it I can say see I struck a nerve it must all be true!" It's why I characterized you as having a weak intellect. You still seem to have a weak intellect. Nothing you've posted, save the one response I praised up above, has shown me otherwise. Normally, I don't call people out for being "dumb" but you've tried to put me down and score points off me this whole damn time while saying things that are just straight up ignorant and "dirty fighting" rather than engaging in the actual topic. You needed to get called out.

@everjaded - I apologize for characterizing what you wrote differently... I haven't been back to this topic in days and actually just forgot it was "power and control" by the time I wrote those responses. My first response gets it right at least. XD

I'm not trying to separate anything, and I explained why I don't like saying all rape is about power and control completely divorced of a sexual component. It's misleading and confuses people and could potentially lead to rapes being less reported and less understood to be rapes. While power and control are a component for all rapes, they aren't the motivating factor in all rapes, and so those types of rapes are going to be less understood as rapes so long as we pretend that power and control are always the motivating factors for rape. That's my stance, anyway. I understand why people have tried to divorce the sexual aspect from rape, I just don't agree with it. It really makes it seem more like it's a boogieman lurking in an alley waiting to pounce, and not much more often, the boyfriend, the parent, the sibling.

 

[mobiusclimber]

And again, I'm not trying to make any distinction here. The only reason I bring up the fact that there are many different types of rapists is to show why it's dangerous to make these distinctions about rape being all about power and control. That's it.

 

[ScarlettHarlot]

I know I'm very late to this thread, and I hope no one minds my resurrecting it, but I'm not online often, so I'm late to catch up sometimes.

My interpretation of the above argument is that things were misinterpreted and became very heated, as it's bound to with this topic. But I agree with a lot of @mobiusclimber is saying, if, in fact, I've interpreted his posts the way I believe he meant them.

At the beginning of the thread, I had similar concerns about people saying that rape is always about power and control, and nothing to do with the sexual act, except in terms of the physicality. I think this view can be a big problem, because no one wants to think of themselves as a bad guy. So a guy who commits rape because he's horny, his girlfriend/wife doesn't want to 'put out', and he keeps on at her, keeps touching her, keeps trying, in the hope she'll get into it as he goes along, justifies it to himself. He thinks that he loves her, that they have sex all the time, and she sometimes does change her mind. After all, he's doing it because he's horny, and not because he wants to have control over her! Even though he is trying to impose his will on her, and putting his desires above her own. He won't see it that way, because after all, he's not a stranger in an alley, or dropping something in her drink.

It's still rape. And that needs to be taught along with sex ed, that rape isn't always committed by violent men who want to humiliate and dominate a woman... sometimes it's committed by a husband who genuinely believes it's his right, in line with his religion even, to have sex with his wife whenever he likes. And it's her duty to comply. The guy who thinks it's fine to buy a woman doubles instead of singles to 'loosen her up'. The guy who keeps on at a girl, sulks, uses gaslighting and emotional manipulation to get his way.

Young men need to be taught about enthusiastic consent. That it's still rape in all of the above scenarios, and any time the girl isn't able or willing to give a wholehearted "YES!" to sex. Young women need to know its okay to enforce firm boundaries, to say no, and to be wary of a guy who tries to badger her into sex. Because his thoughts are that what he wants is more important than what she wants.

 

[ScarlettHarlot]

In fact, the UK recently released this PSA as part of it's "recognise abuse" campaign.
http://thisisabuse.direct.gov.uk/videos/view/11/rape

 

[mobiusclimber]

Yes, pretty much that. Maybe I just suck at communication sometimes, LOL. XD

 

[kitcatmcgee]

@ScarlettHarlot I cant love your reply anymore than I already do... I too feel like I was reading @mobiusclimber

I've been raped.... By a jock in high school(how cliché) and in the mist of an orgy after high school. They were both "classic rapes" the jock drugged me and raped me and when I came to for a second during it he said "hey, hey relax its just me" as if it being the popular jock made it ok for him to rape an unconscious teenage girl. And the other guy I was violent and I fought hard against.

That being said I also have had sex that I didn't want to have, with both friends and boyfriends... You know the type where you really aren't in the mood so the pester and hound you until you give in. Sometimes you just grin and bare it and other times you cry silently cause you really just wanted to be left alone. There was no violence, and to this day while I know it was unhealthy and as an adult I would never put up with that again I still don't feel comfortable calling it rape because while I didn't want it I eventually relented.

For my boyfriends it had nothing to do with power or control it had to do with bustin a nut. They didnt see anything wrong with me waking up with them on top of me because normally i liked morning sex so why isnt it romantic why is instead violating ? So yes i do believe there are many types of rapist

 

[Pete Bondurant]

I raped and sodomised a vacuum cleaner. It wanted it.

 

[Podargus]

Probably a Chinese vacuum cleaner.

 

[everjaded]

I raped and sodomised a vacuum cleaner. It wanted it.

Was it... THIS vacuum cleaner?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jarettwiese...crazed-lip-sync-will-blow-you-away#.ca8W5ZgRd

 

[everjaded]

Or... THIS vacuum cleaner?!? :hilarious:

(reaaaaaaallllllly avoiding getting my ass ready to go to work this morning lol)

 

[rod2pop]

Or... THIS vacuum cleaner?!? :hilarious:

(reaaaaaaallllllly avoiding getting my ass ready to go to work this morning lol)

At least they get to SEE your ass. We only get to imagine it.

 

[everjaded]

At least they get to SEE your ass. We only get to imagine it.

That's so unfortunate! :hilarious:

To be honest though, I don't think you're missing all that much. I never hear much feedback about my ass. It's all about the boobs, from my experience.

 

[brokenandtwisted]

I'm just going to uh, maybe through a spark into this...regardless of this survey's intent - it's just a plea for grant money, I feel - we should analyse on a deeper level, but spin it in our favour.

We've all agreed rape is about power and not sex, which is sound reasoning. But why do rapists need/want power? There are thousands of studies on this and I admittedly haven't read many; but I propose power is sought to exploit reaction. Rape is obviously traumatizing, and we see rape 'victims' as 'victims' of rape through various media. Wouldn't this identification implicitly further empower the rapist? Perhaps we need to dump this whole 'victim' bullshit and refer to people as rape 'survivors' instead. Loses charm, no?