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Detroit Mother Panics Over Missing 9yo. It's Okay, He's Locked Up For A Home Invasion...

Wolf_of_Mars said:
Nature Vs. Nurture. And some of you are taking an overly polarized stance without regard to the overlapping grey areas.
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We can't really speak to nature under these circumstances. If he was breaking into homes and burning cats alive unassisted, we could reasonably speculate nature had some significant involvement. But I, who is often the first to drag parents out from under the bus and offer nature as a possible (or probably) factor for anti-social behavior, can find no reason based on the limited information we've been given to introduce nature into the conversation. So I'm interested in your take.
 
Athena said:
burning cats alive
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You restated the pivotal point your own self. Unless his parental figure(s) actively encouraged that, it falls under the heading of nature. Besides, I was arguing for the possibility of this case falling into the grey area between Nurture & Nature. It would seem that your stance is more a one-sided position.
 
Whenever I hear Detroit it's always about drugs.. Violence..gangs..I could not imagine raising a child around all that. What I don't understand is WHY they do it... I moved v my kids and I quite a few times through out their childhood.. I was a single parent not receiving child support and no college education.. Sometimes I moved having money to get another place and sometimes I moved with just enough gas money to get there.and than staying with a friend till I got on my feet....
This lady is working . so she has at least gas money ..I'm sure she gets av decent tax check ..poor working people make out good at tax time....why stay in the war zone..

WHERE THERE IS A WILL THERE IS A WAY..
 
Lauralye said:
why stay in the war zone..
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Yes, this is something I do not understand. Around here, living in a city is always more expensive then living in a small village somewhere. Even the utterly shitty and impoverished cities. Why not move away as far away as possible and take your kids? Most of these people don't have important jobs to leave - you can work a crappy job in a small town too, but at least your kid will have fresh air and far less bad influences. A decent shot at life. Even the best parents would struggle to raise their kids in a city as bad as Detroit is now. Why continue that life?
 
Wolf_of_Mars said:
You restated the pivotal point your own self. Unless his parental figure(s) actively encouraged that, it falls under the heading of nature. Besides, I was arguing for the possibility of this case falling into the grey area between Nurture & Nature. It would seem that your stance is more a one-sided position.
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Burning a cat is not a guaranteed symptom of an inherent behavioral disposition. It wasn't even added to the DSM as a potential symptom of a psychological disorder until 1987. The research investigating the link between animal abuse and psychological disorders is practically nonexistent, to boot. And, animal abuse can be the symptom of prior physical abuse or trauma.

"A source" said he poured gas on a cat and lit it on fire. But that's all we know. We don't know if other people were there egging him on. If someone knew about it, someone had to be there to witness it. Where'd he get the gas and the light? It's possible he sourced them independently, probable that he got them from older kids.

What we do know for a fact is that he was arrested for breaking into the house along with a 16-year-old, and mom has identified the juveniles in the area to be the motivating factor for his misbehavior. If he hadn't been arrested with anyone, I'd think she was just scapegoating. But he lives in Detroit

In my opinion, there's never a case nature doesn't play into. There just wasn't enough information here definitively pointing to that for me to focus on it. But you're absolutely right... Kid could just be a bad seed. Unfortunately, that happens to parents every now and then. They simply lose the genetic lottery.

Krystal could be right as well. My point, however, is that it's not necessarily parenting, nor is it necessarily nature. The evidence in this case points to peer influence.
 
Dutchesse said:
Yes, this is something I do not understand. Around here, living in a city is always more expensive then living in a small village somewhere. Even the utterly shitty and impoverished cities. Why not move away as far away as possible and take your kids? Most of these people don't have important jobs to leave - you can work a crappy job in a small town too, but at least your kid will have fresh air and far less bad influences. A decent shot at life. Even the best parents would struggle to raise their kids in a city as bad as Detroit is now. Why continue that life?
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What family/support she does have may all be in Detroit. If that town is all she has ever known, moving away could be daunting.

One hopes she does find the confidence to do so, though. I think it is probably her best crack at keeping her son out of trouble in future.
 
Dutchesse said:
. Why continue that life?
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To expand a bit more on what @Abroad said: She could have spent her whole life in Detroit, a very large city, with a large network of public transportation. As a result she may not know how to drive a car and even if she does she could easily not have one to drive. Why would she need it, there's buses and taxis and that it Detroit.

The country doesn't have public transportation like a city. Many communities have no public transportation and others have such a small system that it only serves a very small portion of the county's population.

And, those crappy small town jobs aren't that easy to find anymore. Where I live (in Pennsylvania) our unemployment rate is insane. We have next to no need to white collar workers, those jobs have long since been taken, and our blue collar jobs are dwindling. I don't know her education, but many desirable degrees don't mean shit out in the country. There aren't a lot of fast food restaurants, grocery stores or convenience stores so those types of jobs are minimal and when there is an opening there are lots and lots of applications for 1 or 2 positions. Our factories have been gone forever, one or two are left, but again you need to drive to be able to get there.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love living in the country, I wouldn't have it any other way. I've tried cities and I'm a fish out of water. But I was raised to be able to live in the country. I got a license at 16, have always had a car and while I have a college degree, I also have a ton of country practical skills that landed me my current job. I was taught to fix cars, trucks, lawn mowers, and that got me my job in a Powersports dealership.
 
Athena said:
The evidence in this case points to peer influence.
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I agree wholeheartedly. It certainly does "point" to peer influence. Also, let's not forget he is 9 years old! 9, not 16. No fucking way he just up and decided to light a cat on fire by himself. The fact he was with an older teenager during the home invasion, leads me to imagine him with older (more jagged) teens during the cat incident as well. Surely, the mother's absence likely played a role as well, however - I don't think the mother had a choice.

@Wolf_of_Mars is so on point with the overly polarized stances here. It's ridiculous to assume because your parenting in rough circumstances resulted in a good kid, that's what should happen for everyone.
 
Krystal said:
To expand a bit more on what @Abroad said: She could have spent her whole life in Detroit, a very large city, with a large network of public transportation. As a result she may not know how to drive a car and even if she does she could easily not have one to drive. Why would she need it, there's buses and taxis and that it Detroit.

The country doesn't have public transportation like a city. Many communities have no public transportation and others have such a small system that it only serves a very small portion of the county's population.

And, those crappy small town jobs aren't that easy to find anymore. Where I live (in Pennsylvania) our unemployment rate is insane. We have next to no need to white collar workers, those jobs have long since been taken, and our blue collar jobs are dwindling. I don't know her education, but many desirable degrees don't mean shit out in the country. There aren't a lot of fast food restaurants, grocery stores or convenience stores so those types of jobs are minimal and when there is an opening there are lots and lots of applications for 1 or 2 positions. Our factories have been gone forever, one or two are left, but again you need to drive to be able to get there.

Now, don't get me wrong, I love living in the country, I wouldn't have it any other way. I've tried cities and I'm a fish out of water. But I was raised to be able to live in the country. I got a license at 16, have always had a car and while I have a college degree, I also have a ton of country practical skills that landed me my current job. I was taught to fix cars, trucks, lawn mowers, and that got me my job in a Powersports dealership.
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If everything we hear is true about Detroit ..between drive by shootings ..gangs . violence..a parent should be carrying their child on their back ...:sarcasm:.. whatever it takes to get their child out of that environment... I have always had the best luck living right next to any big tourist beach area.... you make damn good at ANY tip type job ..or you work piece rate for a lot if others .. you put a lil back for the slow time and you ALWAYS live in the next town over ..a lot cheaper... And not moving out of a war zone because you don't know how to drive or you can't pick up a 1,500.00 cheap ugly car ....is just excuses... There is ALWAYS options .. you just have to decide what's more b important.... Jmo
 
Lauralye said:
There is ALWAYS options .. you just have to decide what's more b important....
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What if she doesn't have the money to buy a car, then what she sits in some apartment without a job until what? Welfare buys her a car?

And people seem to have this utopic picture of country life, like we all skip to the local Mom and Pop grocery store waving the Sheriff Taylor and Officer Fife on the way. And forget that we still have problems too.

To walk to work you have to live in town, and towns have kids and young adults roaming the streets. On quite a large scale for the population because we have NO FUCKING JOBS. And if her son is already hanging out in the streets well, what's he going to do in some small town? Hang out in the streets. And make no mistake we have drugs and lots of drugs. While small town and country life isn't anything like city life it's not some utopia like an old TV show.

And yes, I put a significant amount of the blame of this on the mother's shoulders in earlier posts and that hasn't changed but what I'm NOT blaming her for is living in Detroit. Would I live there? Oh Hell NO. I'm suited for country life much like she's more than likely suited for city life. She's not a negligent mother for that, if she were then we have scores of negligent parents in the US alone who all live in cities.

One person that seems to be getting lost in our discussions is Dad. Where the fuck is he? Hmm? We're all saying what Mom could be doing, should be doing (and I'm certainly in on that group who has) but what about Dad? We can't say it's all nature and nothing to do with nurture and we can't say it's all nurture without any nature BUT when we're factoring in nurture, we're only mentioning Mom. Where the fuck is Dad? If he's not helping, and I don't mean with money alone, then he has failed his son more than anyone one else and everyone else combined. The biggest role model in a child's life is the same-sex parent, his father, where is he? Out doing him and what Mom can handle this on her own? Jail? Rehab? Where? As much as I think Mom has made poor parenting decisions with her son, I'm believing that her mistakes have paled in comparison to Dad's as he's not mentioned anywhere. A man refusing to be a man and raise his children is a ridiculously huge failure.
 
Abroad said:
We all know it is at least as likely that he is incarcerated.....
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Or simply just walked away. New life with a new woman or without any woman or children. He wouldn't be the first to just walk away and leave the Mom to shoulder all the parenting.
 
There are plenty of budding psychopaths in wealthy homes as well. I believe its all about attachments. This is how children learn empathy and respect for self and others-through the attachments that parents foster with their kids. Emotional poverty or neglect is what leads to many developing psychopathy and antisocial traits. Of course, it's complicated. I'm sure there are many nature vs nurture aspects that impact us all. Maybe mom needs help in knowing how to nurture him psychologically. I wonder if the kid is already into substances?
 
PsychoKitty said:
lovely, he shoulda been kept in juvie and probably refused to give her number to them. Now everyone is suppose to feel sorry for her and him I guess
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The problem with locking him in juvie is that he's 9, and it won't do him any good to be victimised by the older teens there. An elementary school-aged kid, even one with this little fella's issues, is no match for the junior high and high school minors in custody, and the facility is unlikely to be equipped to handle such a young child. They'd have to put him in isolation for his own safety, which would only damage him worse. Plus, since the age of criminal accountability appears to be 14 in Michigan, they'd be holding a child without charges, which is illegal. I'm sure there are loopholes that could keep him in some sort of custody, but they're more likely mental health facilities or foster care.

I'm a bit unclear about the age of criminal responsibility stuff, as I seem to recall that some extremely young murderers have been prosecuted in Michigan. Maybe they make a distinction between property crime and violent crime, which would make sense.

Without parental guidance and some help, this kid'll be locked up in juvie eventually, if not worse.
 
Just because it's worth noting, I've been unable to verify that the age of criminal responsibility in MI is 14. In fact, statements about this minimum age vary dramatically. According to Frontline, it's 14 in MI. According to Amnesty International, 12 is the highest minimum age anywhere in the country. According to various sources, MI has no minimum age established.

In 1997, MI passed a law that lowered the age at which a juvenile can be tried as an adult for violent crime (an 11-year-old has been tried as an adult for murder in MI, @Azryhael). So, I think we can confidently throw out the 14 number for MI.

Without anything pinpointing, I'm going to speculate that MI follows the old common law, stating that under 7, no criminal responsibility. Past 7, the D.A. must be willing and able to prove that the child knew the crime was wrong.
 
Athena---I will post this to show that a hood rat does not have to be in a black neighborhood.

You got that right. In any small town America there are white ones, hispanic ones, black ones, asian ones, you name "hood rats" are everywhere. It is this generation's thinking that they are entitled to whatever they want regardless if it's theirs or not. I hated that my kids did not always have a lot of kids to play with in our neighborhood because our house is so distant from the neighboring subdivisions and they had to entertain themselves. In the long run however I really do attribute my kids staying out of trouble more because they would have to do some walking to get up with the kids in the other neighborhoods which means they were not willing to walk 2/3 miles just to get into some trouble and then get grounded by me. With that being said influences can be right at your back door and if you are not paying attention they can suck your child right in. She needs to send him to an after school program, YMCA, sign him up for a volunteer program, something, anything, keep him busy and not unattended is her main problem. As far as setting the cat on fire, she might need to keep one eye open while she sleeps and send him to therapist before he takes on the Jeffrey Dahmer syndrome. I hope it's not to late for him. Kids like this are the ones they are just itching to send to prison for life for major crimes they have been known to commit.
 
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