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Really? I've posted on this before. This story, and this attitude are part of the reason one of the first things the Medical Director and I developed at our facility was a heroin/opiate withdrawal protocol which still stands on the books as part of our county's medical SOP at our Criminal Justice complex. Medical folks already know "cold-turkeying" can kill you. LE, well, if they're big enough to have a medical clinic, they're learning.

I'm really surprised you would be so harsh, uncaring and hypercritical of someone else's lifestyle choices. Finger-wagging someone to death never helps anyone change their behavior...Addictions and bad choices come in all shapes and sizes and until you've seen heroin/narc withdrawal and dealt with it hundreds of times, seen what it does to certain people and not so much to others, have seen what it actually does to the human body, what psychophysiological effects it has on a select population of users who are high-risk for death, I'd be hesitant to form such a hostile, apathetic opinion.

Like it or not, everyone has civil rights, be it heroin or other drug addicts, alcoholics, sex addicts, sex workers, drug dealers, shoplifters, murderers, and the innocent, pre-trial citizens wrongly arrested, and LE has the *express* responsibility to provide a minimum of medical care and supervision to community standard to all pre-trial arrestees. What these assholes did was borne of stupidity/lack of education, apathy, harsh judgmentalism, narcissism, and a "god complex." Hopefully no one you or your loved ones care about gets stuck in a pos jail where they develop a serious medical problem and the staff lets them die b/c they've looked at them and mentally judged them 'just another piece of shit dope dealer/user, etc. who doesn't deserve to live.' Something to think about. As always, JMO. YMMV. <3

Thank you a thousand times over for this.
I'm trying to contain myself over here.
The irony. Oh, the irony.
 
@bowling68 No offense to your acquaintance, but tear-drop tatoos on the face are well known in prison culture, and any attempt to emulate that for whatever reason is just poor judgement to say the least. If someones was to tatoo "Fuck" across their forehead to commemorate the conception of their child, should that be viewed in a less negative way because of it's lovely intention?
From Wiki, so not exactly the ultimate in authoritative sources, but generally pretty reliable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teardrop_tattoo

The tattoo can have several meanings. In the United States, it can signify that the wearer has killed someone.[2] Alternatively, the number of teardrops may indicate the number of times the wearer was raped while in prison.[3] It may also indicate the wearer has been imprisoned or indicate the loss of a loved one or fellow gang member.[1]

According to The Devil's Front Porch, a book written by Lester Douglas Johnson about serving 1927 to 1957 in Kansas State Penitentiary, the tattoo denoted a member of "The Old Fraternity", referring to the Biblical Cain who slew his brother.[1][4]

It is sometimes worn by the female companions of prisoners in solidarity with their loved ones.[5]
 
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"kitcatmcgee, post: 900259, member: 19603"]Not to mention what the fuck were they supposed to do about it? Give her heroin?.... How many times do we see junkies on here committing crimes and we all say "man I hope this piece of shit has a nice time cold turkeying in jail lmao" .... This pos got arrested while shoplifting with her 16 year old, which in my opinion means she taught her child that stealing is acceptable over working hard..... I don't feel sorry for this woman on any level

How often is the POS we are referring to tho the criminals in crimes against children. ie Rape, molestation, murder....etc. Those guys definetly deserve this type of karma while the guards look the other way. This woman was there for THEFT.....are you fucking serious?? This is not okay... How many people can honestly say theyve NEVER stolen anything before. Although her daughter was a teen, its not like she left her with her dealer or dead some where and actually lived this long....mom must be doing something right....js...I feel bad for her AND her family.


A face tattoo does not automatically make someone "trashy" nor is it a definitive indication of someone's upbringing. I personally know a solid middle-class lady who has a teardrop tattoo under her eye commemorating the death of her son who died when he was 15.

THANK YOU. My mommy has a teardrop tat under her eye too. Its just the one single drop to represent 3 miscarriages she had after my younger sister was born. And my mom is not "trashy" .... shes actually quite "classy" and it looks adorbs on her. <3 Its not like shes got neck tats with a word written on her face or some tribal design on the side of her head. Now that kinda shit is trashy and screams gang wannabe banger...imo. And my mother is actually a highly respected member of her community (which is not in the slums or ghetto) .... so screw you alls who thinks otherwise to a piece of body art. A tat doesnt represent a poor judgement in all cases....thats like saying all people with the number 13 tattooed is gang affiliated. Im not affiliated in any gangs nor have I ever been. M is the 13th letter in the alphabet. MM is my initials and nickname initials from childhood. And my hometown begins with M among several other M words that describe me or things about me is some cool way or another. When it was tattooed I actually didnt even know 13 was a gang related number...js. and again its just my opinion...but very valid.
 
For the record, i kinda dig the teardrop tattoo look on a broad, goes nicely with the chola makeup which is always very hot.

You bitch so much about "this site". Why stay then, guy who tries super hard to be a more irritating version of Pete?

Nothing in your quotted comment from myself was bitching about the site itself.
 
@kitcatmcgee ...I'm just curious why you feel so much anger ..hate... About this mom on heroin .. but you felt total empathy on the parents who were on meth and called the cops when hallucinating... In crimes against children.. Again just curious..

Jail guards... You are getting paid to deal with inmates..the good .. the bad.. The ugly.. If you cannot do it correctly.. Than you need your asses fired and sued for wrongful death..
You really could apply your last paragraph to almost any profession, don't u think? *although some are getting paid a shit ton more than others (including guards) ;) *

Guards...cops....nurses...doctors...
teachers....day care workers...lawyers....EMTs....stay at home moms....construction workers...judges...CPS reps....babysitters...

There is bad everywhere. And in every profession. Period. If only they all knew if they couldn't handle their job, to get out. The world would be a happier place.
 
I know it's not the most of popular views but I believe this woman made her own life choices and ultimately chose this path. 1st off She chooses to inject a heavy Narcotic to get high, she knew damn well this was illegal but does it anyways, cool. 2nd She's stealing, she get's caught no big surprise. Lastly she Lies to the officers that she isn't high on anything then dies for her dishonesty. so Life lessons here:
- Don't Do Drugs
- Honesty is Always the best policy
- Don't Do the Crime If you Can't do the time

So summing this all up by her "own" choices she has chosen to get high on Heroin, Steal from a store, and lie to the officers....... Had she not did the heroin, or even decided not to steal this lady would still be alive. These were her choices! Yet so many people feel regardless what bonehead moves you make your never responsible for your own actions and that there should always be a safety net in place which will inevitably be used as a Scape Goat. Sad her life had to end this way but I don't think the guards have any more responsibility aside from keeping them secure from public within the compound.
 
and that there should always be a safety net in place which will inevitably be used as a Scape Goat

Um, but there essentially IS a safety net in the place she was at. Jails have guards, they have medical staff, there are rules and policies and laws that mandate care for prisoners. It was all disregarded. How is holding such fuckups responsible the same as using them as a scapegoat?

but I don't think the guards have any more responsibility aside from keeping them secure from public within the compound.

Well they do, and they failed to live up to it here, so that's that.
 
@Exodus
While I agree with a lot of what u said, I disagree with your last sentence. A guard has more duty then to simply shield and protect the public from the accused. Part of the job, like it or not, is to keep inmates safe from the public, from other inmates, and from themselves.
If the statements are true, and she was sick for that long, there was an epic fail that happened here. Whether it was drug related or not, whether she lied or not about doing heroin, she was obviously ill. She was in need of medical attention, and it *sounds* like an alarm was raised more than once.
I suspect a boy who cried wolf kind of atmosphere. You see attention seeking, narcotic craving, self-harming people so much that u grow a bit indifferent to it. Everybody wants to see a nurse all the time, that they purposefully break fingers, wrists, etc, in order to get pain meds. Was that the case here? I have no idea.
As a side note, jails are very different than prisons. Their turnover ratio is ten fold what a prison sees.
Either way, in this case, the guards are responsible, whether she lied about her drug habit or not.
 
Um, but there essentially IS a safety net in the place she was at. Jails have guards, they have medical staff, there are rules and policies and laws that mandate care for prisoners. It was all disregarded. How is holding such fuckups responsible the same as using them as a scapegoat? Well they do, and they failed to live up to it here, so that's that.

What I find funny about this all is that with the variety of stories we get on this forum, and the amount of time you spend posting, I know it won't be a month before you will be contradicting yourself ;)

As this will be the only Time I even bother responding, I would like to thank you for using the green text, It seriously has made it very easy this entire time to skip right past your posts.
 
I know it's not the most of popular views but I believe this woman made her own life choices and ultimately chose this path. 1st off She chooses to inject a heavy Narcotic to get high, she knew damn well this was illegal but does it anyways, cool. 2nd She's stealing, she get's caught no big surprise. Lastly she Lies to the officers that she isn't high on anything then dies for her dishonesty. so Life lessons here:
- Don't Do Drugs
- Honesty is Always the best policy
- Don't Do the Crime If you Can't do the time

So summing this all up by her "own" choices she has chosen to get high on Heroin, Steal from a store, and lie to the officers....... Had she not did the heroin, or even decided not to steal this lady would still be alive. These were her choices! Yet so many people feel regardless what bonehead moves you make your never responsible for your own actions and that there should always be a safety net in place which will inevitably be used as a Scape Goat. Sad her life had to end this way but I don't think the guards have any more responsibility aside from keeping them secure from public within the compound.
she was vomiting and she vomited nonstop for 7 hours, gaurds did nothing. heres a quote...... In fact, so many inmates pushed the emergency buttons so many times that the guards finally came in and said, 'You want our attention? You've got it. We're now going to shake down all of your cells.'"heres a couple links..

I agree with @Forensicwx . Again,

...she was vomiting and she vomited nonstop for 7 hours, gaurds did nothing. heres a quote...... In fact, so many inmates pushed the emergency buttons so many times that the guards finally came in and said, 'You want our attention? You've got it. We're now going to shake down all of your cells.'"

All moralizing, stereotyping and ethical opinions over people who use drugs, people who lie about using them, etc.,, aside, according to the law this is a serious, highly illegal breach of contract/breach of duty by hired, paid, public servants. The fact is it wouldn't have mattered if she'd been withdrawing from heroin, had a ruptured gallbladder, stomach cancer, or an upper bowel obstruction. "Deliberate indifference", let alone resulting in death is against the law.
 
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First and foremost: Should they have gotten her to an ER? Absolutely.

But I just want to point out something, when I detoxed I puked and puked and puked for not just hours but days, I took no Suboxone or methadone to alleviate the withdrawal, I suffered through the consequences of my stupid choices.

But, like I said, they should have called an ambulance to take her out of the jail, bottom line.
 
Not to mention what the fuck were they supposed to do about it? Give her heroin?

If you hung out with half the people you claim you do, or have gone through some of the things you said you have, you would know the answer to this. Yes, they absolutely can medically prevent deaths from withdrawal, EASILY, without giving her heroin.

I don't feel sorry for this woman on any level

You want the death penalty for theft? I think you're in the wrong country.

This story really reminds me of the case in Lowell that has always bothered me.... http://www.dreamindemon.com/communi...-after-being-arrested-for-prostitution.65856/

At least those cops were investigated and punished (although not necessarily to the appropriate degree). Hopefully they will here as well.
 
Yea, there are many different views on this one.
But in no way the guards were right in the way they treated this woman.

They most definitely should have gotten her help.

When I was detoxing I was given Methadone.

I still felt like shit.

Yes, we are human, we all make stupid choices. Some make REALLY stupid choices(like me doing heroin for example)
But some people just can't handle life and what we are given to deal with. Some can't handle the responsibilities, so they find some form of escape. Whether it be a good form or a bad one, that is what they chose. But there is always hope for these people to get better, and find a different way to cope rather than some form of drug or other.

Never judge people and their lives until you know their full story.
I know I am guilty of doing that at times, but really.....When it is a child molester, rapist, brutal murderer, who the hell doesn't wish just karma on them? I should also mention Animal abusers/murderers because I FUCKING LOVE ANIMALS>

But to get back to my POINT.
There was absolutely no reason to let this woman die. She should have been helped and not ignored.
This was completely preventable, but no one who had the power to help her CARED enough to do so.
They all deserve to be punished.

But yet this is just MY opinion.

Also just MY opinion...People need to open their eyes and minds more and stop destroying things they don't understand and stop being so cruel. No fucking wonder people think everyone else sucks.... it's mostly because they do...SUCK
 
What I find funny about this all is that with the variety of stories we get on this forum, and the amount of time you spend posting, I know it won't be a month before you will be contradicting yourself ;)

As this will be the only Time I even bother responding, I would like to thank you for using the green text, It seriously has made it very easy this entire time to skip right past your posts.

You didn't respond. He asked valid questions that you ignored in favor of an ad hominem attack. If this is the only way you can manage to interact with Jack, I would like to introduce you to the "Ignore" button. It's even better than the green text strategy. You won't have to see anything at all. You click on his name; a little window will appear featuring several options, including a link to their profile page, a link to IM them, a link to follow/unfollow the member, and lastly, ignore.

Two clicks, and you'll never have to be bothered by his abrasive but generally value-added commentary ever again. :D

And y'all know I have to comment on the extensive tattoo discussion. Yes, a face tattoo pretty much excludes you from looking classy. I know some extremely decent human beings with face tattoos. I wouldn't define any of them as classy. Nor do I believe they would define themselves as classy. Does it automatically make them look trashy? I know of only one exception to this rule. So, while the answer is technically "no," one would have to utilize exceptional design strategy to avoid looking trashy.

The tear drop under the eye will never be that exception. It is internationally recognized as a tattoo indicating gang affiliation. Specifically, either "I killed a rival gang member (although not necessarily) in prison," or "rival gang members killed one of my homies." To get this particular tattoo (or a "13" in Old English on the neck, or lightening bolts, etc., etc.) for any other reason is terribly unwise, no matter how noble or touching the motivation. You have just associated yourself with a particularly unsavory faction of the population at a single glance. Might not be fair, might not be right, but that's the reality of the situation. Be angry with the gang members who chose that particular design to symbolize the horrors associated with their hobby, not the rest of the population which is thankful so many of them have chosen to brand themselves in such an obvious way so that we can cross the street when they're coming down the sidewalk.

And, while such a tattoo isn't an automatic indication of a "trashy" upbringing, it is a pretty damn sound indicator of low socioeconomic status, as individuals with such tattoos severely limit their opportunities, and were likely not raised to respect the far-reaching impact such an action may have. Kat Von D and Lil' Wayne are exceptions (and while they enjoy solid economic status, they're still not poster children for the "face tattoos don't make people look trashy" movement). The last guy I saw with a face tattoo was begging for change downtown.

Finally, as it pertains to this particular story, any attempt to justify the medical neglect this woman received is cold blooded and lacking respect for the Constitution, which specifically forbids cruel and unusual punishment. I believe standing idle while a woman is puking herself to death is just about as cruel as it gets.
 
IMO She and her fellow inmates would've gotten way more attention by not using those 2 words " heroin withdrawal". A bad gallbladder, food poisoning. These will get you to a hospital fast. Another whiny histrionic female faking vomiting with ketchup or other substances( I won't get graphic with that) who wants to get high? Not so much. I just had one that was fishing used needles and left over meds in her room from the sharps container with medical tape and a fork and shooting them up. I wouldn't throw any left over meds away in her room but used syringes. That did not even register with me as a possibility. I guess the fact that they may or may not be hers didn't matter. Those containers are huge and they don't change them out between patients. Ewww.
She pitched a fit every day about something and constantly wanted special food from kitchen. I've never seen anyone eat so much. Begging for more meds,constantly picking at her sores. I had a co worker tell me she did that to eat the pus and get high from the drugs oozing out of her pores?! Don't see how that's possible but I wasn't in the mood to debate pus eating at that point. She refused to stay in her room and started running 102 fevers so we d/c'd her PICC line. She required PIV starts daily. Finally found her passed out in the smoking area with a tourniquet still tied on her arm and a huge knot with a puncture site( guess she got tired of ruining her IV's). Next step was to d/c peripheral IV and all IV meds and refused to allow her to have visitors cause figured her bf was bringing her stuff in and she was shooting up street drugs or let leave her room. She signed out AMA with a blood clot in her arm where the PICC line was, MRSA in her blood. She refused to wait for her rx's for blood thinners and antibiotics after spending the day begging people for money on the phone constantly to fill them. We found her fishing pole and tons of used syringes and vials in her room after she left. I'd like to say I had some sympathy but she was from hell.
She required more supervision than they give on a standard medical floor but medically stable. No respiratory or heart issues. The hospital I work at has the amazingly stupid policy of just letting people leave the floor whenever they want.'The same night we were dealing with her another guy "went for a walk" with a foley and a box heart monitor and never came back. I wish they'd rethink this as I have 7 patients to take care of and looking for ppl is getting old fast. If they're gone for 2-3 hours they lose their room and have to go back through the ED.
 
Fucking CO's! There all fucking souless pricks. It takes a real peice of shit to ignore some one in that much pain.

While I agree with your last sentence, your second one is rubbish.
I would think the "souless pricks" would be the pos murderers and rapists that the CO's protect society from.
 
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'The same night we were dealing with her another guy "went for a walk" with a foley and a box heart monitor and never came back. I wish they'd rethink this as I have 7 patients to take care of and looking for ppl is getting old fast. If they're gone for 2-3 hours they lose their room and have to go back through the ED.
Fuck 'em. Don't go looking, who fucking cares? You can only help people who want to help themselves.

When people tell me that they want to leave AMA, I tell them the doctor has to talk to them, give them the AMA form to sign and remind them that I can't legally keep them here til the doctor shows up, c'est la vie!:finger:

Another thing I do when patients or their families are chronically complaining about the care that they've received at our institution, is remind them that they are free to call an ambulance at their own expense and have the patient transferred to another facility. Funny how just informing people of their rights seems to shut them right the fuck up:finger:
 
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Fucking CO's! There all fucking souless pricks. It takes a real peice of shit to ignore some one in that much pain.
I'm sure listening to inmates bitching, lying and basically being degenerate pieces of shit gets old after a while. Have you ever heard the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?
 
@oldmaonastick commented:
It takes a real peice of shit to ignore some one in that much pain.
Preach!
Fucking CO's! There all fucking souless pricks.
Wow. Previous, personal issues in prison with Corrections Officers? Not sure what planet you're from, but here on Earth, wherever humans exist there's NO place ANYwhere immune from having "fucking souless pricks" running around SOMEwhere.
 
I'm sure listening to inmates bitching, lying and basically being degenerate pieces of shit gets old after a while. Have you ever heard the story of the Boy Who Cried Wolf?


Although I completely AGREE with your post I just wanted to add that when anyone from any career choice or job does find their self at this point to the extent it effects the quality of their performance than they have a responsibility to their self as well as the company to either quit or take whatever steps necessary to change this..

ETA.. Do you work in a hospital ..I think one of your post talked of it.. Curious .. what do you do..

ETA.. once more.. Lol.. just wanted you to know I was not referring to you when I said a person needs to quit.. A certain degree of tiredness in any job is natural ..
 
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fuck all this bickering. i did not even want to go here, and my memory, is, well, mine; so you know it is shot. but i have read so many stories on this site about people dying in jail and nobody helped them, people being left in cells and forgotten about, and never mind the video of the lady that had the officer slap her down on the cement bed thing or what ever they call it. i do not care how "trashy" you may be or where you came from. it is up to a judge and jury to decide what happens to you after arrest and trial. your punishment is the loss of your freedom. not for someone to deny you medical help when you need it because they are either stupid or just plain mean.
 
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The way some of these CO's act reminds me of those workers at factory farms who abuse the animals. I think they just hate what they do and take it out on the nearest helpless creature.
 
I've stayed out of this thread since I first posted because I know damn well I was harsh, I was also withdrawing... I was on day two and every place I've ever been has said you die from benzo and alcohol withdraw and while getting off dope feels like hell it's not gonna kill you... I've dried out in county and they gave me Motrin and Pepto... Not exactly life savers.... I didn't feel sympathy when I was in the spot and I don't today...you take alot of risks using, sadly death is one of them, so I'm genuinely confused on how anyone can see this as just a sad byproduct of her addiction
 
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