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@NoBS , I will just respectfully point out that at no point have I mentioned political correctness, or attempted to defend it here. I am well aware that some use political correctness to try and silence the opinions of others. I am not one of those. If I disagree with the opinions I will attack them directly, not attempt to silence them. I am also aware that others criticise political correctness because they want to be free to say obnoxious things and showcase obnoxious prejudices without being thought of as bad. But the PC debate is a whole other issue, really.

And you are critical of what you appear to see as the blame game in every aspect of left wing politics. But what exactly are the right doing when they condemn the entire welfare sysyem and try and make out that everyone who hits hard times is an economic leech and scrounger? Is that not the blame game writ large?

I'm NOT a native Yank. Yet America is the ONLY country worth fighting for IMHO.
That you feel so patriotic towards your adopted country is admirable and worthy of respect.

But part of the drive behind left wing politics in my country is to truly make it a country worth fighting for for ALL the people, not just the wealthiest third.

Where are you from originally, may I ask?
 
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Short version. Once Dated guy that was/is drain on the system and has been for last 25+ years. Hardest worker you'll ever meet if you hire " under the table".

His NUMEROUS friends are also welfare addicts. Everyone of them has an excuse/ reason why they can't/ won't work a regular job. They routinely trade their food stamps for cash and spend the cash on beer/pot. I did not meet one friend of his that had a legit need for hand outs.

Last I heard he still gets free medical, free dental, Rx, power subsidy, food stamps (ebt card) $5 a month phone.

The only pay back will be when he's too old to work under the table his SS check will be next to nothing, and he'll always have to live with room mates in cheap dumps.
 
Short version. Once Dated guy that was/is drain on the system and has been for last 25+ years. Hardest worker you'll ever meet if you hire " under the table".

His NUMEROUS friends are also welfare addicts. Everyone of them has an excuse/ reason why they can't/ won't work a regular job. They routinely trade their food stamps for cash and spend the cash on beer/pot. I did not meet one friend of his that had a legit need for hand outs.

Last I heard he still gets free medical, free dental, Rx, power subsidy, food stamps (ebt card) $5 a month phone.

The only pay back will be when he's too old to work under the table his SS check will be next to nothing, and he'll always have to live with room mates in cheap dumps.

Working cash in hand without declaring that income and whilst claiming welfare is, I believe, illegal in both our countries. If you know of anyone doing that, you need only report them for it and they'll get theirs.

Certainly, in my country it has been made very difficult to do that by stringent jobsearch requirements, making them sign on every day if needs be, forcing them to undertake training or voluntary work, hotlines where their cash in hand work can be reported by others, and a small army of benefits investigators looking into people on the slightest suspicion.

Here, most such cash in hand workers cease claiming welfare because it is not worth the hassle. Of course, their undeclared income is still a problem in terms of tax evasion. But at least most of them are no longer committing welfare fraud.

You guys need to get similarly tough on such people.
 
This is just an example of how right wingers demonise welfare claimants and the welfare system. They select the very worst examples they can find - like this waster with no intention of working and who wants to leech off the taxes of other Americans all her life -
Hold on. I was very clear when I originally commented that people who fall into this class were NOT the norm and that I believed that the majority of people who receive welfare benefits do so with the appropriate intentions and use the system as it was intended.

But the fact remains that people like this woman in the picture do exist and as a hard-working tax payer I am allowed to get my pissed off on about it. It has nothing to do with my political stance. Everyone should be pissed off that anyone exists out there with that mentality. It's not a right wing or left wing thing, it's about right and wrong.

It's not right to want to be a lazy fuck whining about being a victim of everything and anything one can dream up. Collecting welfare and baby daddies shouldn't be rewarded and worn like a badge of honor, like someone has somehow done something great. What's right is getting off your ass and taking care of your responsibilities.

If my husband left me tomorrow I would be the single mother of 3 children and wouldn't need to run out and get welfare. Why? Because I work, because I can support my children. It's about time we applaud that attitude instead of that ignorant attitude that because a woman has had a kid or two she's a victim of something and needs all our help and sympathy. And I'm not knocking a woman who needs help to support her children due to unforeseen circumstances but rather the ones like that picture you were offended by. I applaud a woman who is trying to take care of her children whether or not my taxes have to help her or not but I abhor a female who acts like I owe her something because she can't stop getting knocked up by whichever douchebag makes her panties the wettest. I stopped with 3 kids because I cannot handle any more than that one my own, I thought ahead and planned for that eventuality if it should occur.

So yes, I laugh when I read the pictures that were posted. Why? Because I pay into the welfare system, which is a broken system, that I have never said needed to be abolished. And because I pay into people like that woman's pocket I get to be pissed off that she has the ignorant entitled attitude while I work 10 hour days, 5 or 6 days a week, just to make ends meet. Because she is the exact example of what is wrong with the system that we either can't or won't fix.
 
Hey @Krystal , my criticisms were not directed at you personally, but at those on the right who claim that this sort of thing is typical of all welfare claimants. It was not a criticism of you personally.

I am a hard-working taxpayer too - today is my first full day off in three weeks - and I resent paying my taxes to leeches who don't want to work as well. Some of them are customers where I work and the attitude of a few of them towards those of us who actually have jobs and are working to support them, frankly stinks. And yes, I know they exist and pretty much agree with you in what you have to say about them. And I myself have said that we need to get tough on these people.

You and I do not disagree on this nearly as much as you imagine.

As for my disagreement icon, I disagreed with your comment purely because the humour behind what you were laughing at was - I suspect - aimed at ALL welfare claimants by the person who posted those things. I simply assumed that in laughing at it, you must have felt the same way. I stand corrected.
 
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I disagreed with your comment purely because the humour behind what you were laughing at was - I suspect - aimed at ALL welfare claimants by the person who posted those things. I simply assumed that in laughing at it, you must have felt the same way.
I had corrected you on my first post, my first one on this thread. Where I clearly stated that there is a need for welfare as a hand-up and not a hand-out and how I abhor those that abuse the system but I know, even in my anger, that those people are few and far between.

The disagreement icon, is what it is. On occasion I question someone as to why I get one but by and large I just let them go. The negatives aren't going to get me kicked off so I stopped caring awhile ago about them.

You lumped a group of people into a category of wild, raging "right-wingers" and that is what I objected to. Politically speaking yes, I am a right winger, I have always voted conservative Republican, but if you actually read my views I'm not lumped into that category that you wanted to put my in. I have more moderate views on some issues, not all but some. You tried to put words in my mouth and THAT is what I was objecting to.
 
@Krystal ,I read too much into your words whilst forgetting your original statement. I admit that. And I then allowed my political bias to lead me into jumping to conclusions and putting words into your mouth, as you said. I actually removed my disagreement icon before you even added your last post, because now that you have clarified, I don't actually really disagree with you all that much at all.

Of course, with you being a right wing conservative Republican, and me being a left wing liberal one time member of the British Labour Party, there will be much that we do disagree on, though that makes neither of us bad people. But I will try not to put words into your mouth again, ok? :)
 
you being a right wing conservative Republican, and me being a left wing liberal one time member of the British Labour Party, there will be much that we do disagree on
Which is why I rarely discuss politics. :) My favorite Miss CB is a bleeding heart liberal, we simply have agreed to disagree. I find that it works best that way.;)
 
Yep, the majority of individuals use it as intended. But there is an unhealthy number of individuals who don't. My state has a more generous than average welfare program, and the average time a family uses it is 18 months. But I lived in the hood for 4 years. Knew people who were on it that entire time and much more.

I'd be happy if welfare was capped and matched up with education geared toward the local economy. Sure, education costs money, but you get that money back when the individual can work for the rest of his or her life. And local economies always have a hole in industry. Maybe machinists, dental techs, etc. Certification-level jobs that don't require extensive education and can provide a living wage.

But there is a hatred of the poor that is largely driven by the thinking illustrated in Pete's memes (which were hilarious, but terrible). Taxpayers would rather spend money punishing them with drug tests, and have vocally opposed programs that actually get recipients working. Years ago, I read an article about a program (in Texas, maybe?) that gave recipient families a car allowing them to get to work. The cost to the state was minimal; I think an average $1,200, which isn't much more than a single month of benefits for many families. These cars were donated to the state for the program, the state would perform any necessary repairs and would pay for, like, 6 months of insurance. It had a significant impact on reducing the number of families utilizing benefits long term. It was sheer brilliance, in my opinion.

But The Great Unwashed threw such a fit over welfare recipients getting "free cars" that the program was quickly dismantled.

Taxpayers will cut off their nose to spite the poor. It's disgusting.
 
But The Great Unwashed threw such a fit over welfare recipients getting "free cars" that the program was quickly dismantled
We still have a similar program in my county. Capped at, I believe, $1500 per vehicle. The vehicle is provided only to persons who have gotten a job but cannot get to work otherwise. Being in a rural area, we don't have much for public transportation. We have a bare-bones bus service that doesn't hit the majority of the areas, one town has taxis out of 10 or 12 towns and numerous small communities that all have nothing.

Little known fact, that was how my husband got his car when we first met. Like I said, I'm all for hand-ups not lifetime hand-outs. He hasn't stopped working yet and neither have I but at any time any one of us can hit a really rough patch and need help and there's no shame in that. There is shame in making it a lifestyle.
 
Very glad the program exists somewhere. It's such a solid programs, with such quantifiable benefits...

No shame in needing assistance temporarily. To make a life of it... Those people are why I support amnesty for illegals. Hard working people deserve the access to a good life so much more than those leeches.
 
There are some interesting YouTube videos about life on the dole in Great Britain. These folks will piss anyone off. The have large families, demand bigger homes for their crotchfruit, then their offspring repeat the cycle. And they are PROUD of it. America calls it welfare, GB calls it benefits. Then they piss and moan when their benefits gets cut.

I qualify for many government programs, and there is so much free food in my city. But I have pride and dignity, I am not just a taker from society. I volunteer.

I live in a Section 8 area. My neighbor, has tried for 3 years to get rid of a drug house across the street. This is a so called "Blood" neighborhood. Red clothes everywhere. These hoodrats act like they own the color red. My neighbor in the building next door, told me about how the hoodrats gave him grief for wearing the color red.

And this is a man who served in the military, worked in the aircraft industry,
going for his master's degree, happily married, working in retail, and wants to move to be close to his daughter. This is a man. And he is black. And he is my neighbor. And his name is Larry.

He is not like the young black men in my area. The youth in my neighborhood are just interested in getting high and making babies. And not supporting them. Just having a good time until they go to prison or someone kills them. They are not college bound. Not applying for scholarships. They just hang out and cause trouble. And it doesn't matter whether they live here or not. Not everyone can become a rapper or a sports star. That is not the ticket out of poverty for everyone. Education.

It's spring! And I am moving out of the ghetto!

America and Great Britain have similar immigration woes.
But can you blame someone for wanting a better life? People risk their lives to come here. And can you blame them?

Truthfully, I would rather work with a Mexican work crew. Those men know how to work. And fast. I have watched roofers and painters. And mechanical knowledge! My BIL has all the auto parts stores on speed dial. And our southern friends do excellent work and don't waste time. And they are so family oriented. And soccer is their game. Real football. An international sport.

Basketball.......putting a ball through a hoop. Big fucking deal. Rapping,
unoriginal bad poetry. To stolen beats. Whining about how hard life is. How the man is to blame. How bad and ghetto low a man can be. How a man uses a gun to settle his differences. Thinks nothing about hitting a child, woman, or another human being. A man's ego is so easily bruised.

I played sports, as a child. But I am a man now, I put most childish things away. Life is not a pissing contest. There are no luggage racks on hearses.

Cheers.
 
point out that at no point have I mentioned political correctness, or attempted to defend it here. I am well aware that some use political correctness to try and silence the opinions of others.
Funny, but you started out with politically correct double speak:
Meanwhile, the right wing press constantly whips up hatred against the welfare system itself, seeking to convince readers all too willing to believe, that the system is predominantly being used by charlatans to defraud taxpayers
Do you even understand that the blame game used in context of innuendo and subterfuge is at the ROOT of Political Correctness?
You are entitled to deny the obvious, while I'm entertained by your hypocrisy.
Enjoy.
ETA forgot to add, in order to use PC correctly, a victimhood mentality MUST be included.
What good is Politically Correct with out the self-pity of a spoiled child?
 
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Meanwhile, the right wing press constantly whips up hatred against the welfare system itself, seeking to convince readers all too willing to believe, that the system is predominantly being used by charlatans to defraud taxpayers

That is not politically correct doublespeak, merely a statement of fact that you choose not to agree with. Just because you disagree with something does not make it politically correct.
 
Meanwhile, the right wing press constantly whips up hatred against the welfare system itself, seeking to convince readers all too willing to believe, that the system is predominantly being used by charlatans to defraud taxpayers

That is not politically correct doublespeak, merely a statement of fact that you choose not to agree with. Just because you disagree with something does not make it politically correct.
Your right, blame game and victim hood is now part of the liberal culture.
That makes it a PC fact.
Go with it, ride her hard! Enjoy...
 
You think *you're* annoyed by people getting welfare when they can work, and making no effort to get off it, or defrauding the system into giving them more than they need? You're nowhere near as mad as legit welfare recipients are, trust me. It pisses us off. There's only so much money to go around, and it never seems to be enough. It's why we have to wait eight months to get a dental appointment, or two years for affordable housing; it's why it's so hard to get job-training programs, child-care and respite care, specialized medical care, and pretty much anything beyond the very, very basics. And while we're sitting here using the system the way it ought to be used--you know, to stay alive--there are people out there using up part of that limited supply, who don't need it.

Beyond just the money they siphon off (comparatively little, actually, because the vast majority of welfare recipients are legit), there's the way they give us all a bad name by being jackasses who don't want to contribute to their communities nor care about anyone else in them. One high-publicity welfare queen with six kids and no desire to work, and the hundreds of legit people per fraudster all get painted with the same brush. It makes us absolutely livid. We're just trying to get by, we're either trying to get off welfare or live decent, meaningful lives while we're on it; and here are these people who take food out of the mouths of their young, old, disabled, or unlucky neighbors--all the while giving the general public the impression that we are all asshats like they are.
 
I am indifferent. I no longer have a dog in the welfare debate race.

There are legions of tax loopholes. I will never understand why people remotely care about 'where our money is going'...because damn...we created taxation in our favour, guys. Simmer the fuck down and learn to abuse it. (There's a possibility I, uh, might have slept with a dashing PwC employee.)
 
I am indifferent. I no longer have a dog in the welfare debate race.

There are legions of tax loopholes. I will never understand why people remotely care about 'where our money is going'...because damn...we created taxation in our favour, guys. Simmer the fuck down and learn to abuse it. (There's a possibility I, uh, might have slept with a dashing PwC employee.)

Slut.
 
I think a point missed in this discussion are the other brands of welfare not discussed, such as corporate welfare, and on top of that company's that take advantage of welfare programs to pay there employees poverty wages. there are legions of companies that receive a much higher rate of tax breaks than contributions some making absolute zero in contributions to the tax system. They (large corporations) have paid lot of money to politicians to make sure the tax loopholes play in there favor, which at least in the united states at least just highlights the failure of our political system especially with the lack of drive on prospective voters to actually vote and when they vote to vote for there own interests that realistically affect there lives.

With that being said yes some people on the poor end of the economic scale do bilk the system, which can be frustrating for the hard working among us because you can see that in person in your daily life. where as corporate welfare is fare less visible to the average working person thus "out of site out of mind". In my honest opinion though A few poor people bilking the system is low on my list of concerns simply because the totality of the burden of those few individuals is marginal compared to the weight of burden that corporate welfare places on the system. I personally will worry about big time offenders of welfare first before I will worry about the poor family cheating the system down the road from me, although i disagree with both equally. I find it bothersome though that we often know when someone is using cheating the system to success and say "hey they got away with it,good on them" as it makes me think of the Hunter s. Thompson quote "In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity." Sadly it is the poorest among us who usually get caught thus that is who we attack for said sins and not the ones who are smart,rich and powerful enough to continue getting away with it using they system they have bought and paid for. All should be held accountable but it should start at the top,not the bottom. Kicking a man while he is down is just easier than standing against those who are powerful and abusing the system.

One final note, I acknowledge being rich alone does not make a person horrible nor guilty of any thing, there are also a litany of kind, good,hard workin and honest well to do people as well. Just as not all poor people are "welfare queens", not all wealthy people are corrupt manipulators of society.
 
I find it bothersome though that we often know when someone is using cheating the system to success and say "hey they got away with it,good on them" as it makes me think of the Hunter s. Thompson quote "In a closed society where everybody's guilty, the only crime is getting caught. In a world of thieves, the only final sin is stupidity."

Hunter S. Thompson was an alcoholic drug addict who killed himself. All leftists would do well to follow his example.
 
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Not really... I get what you mean, sure, that you wouldn't want to be in a wheelchair on the fourth floor with a fire in the building. But there's more to accessibility than elevators--there has to be. You can try to discourage people in wheelchairs from working on the fourth floor, but there'll still be people visiting the fourth floor in wheelchairs, etc., and you've got to plan for that. What you would usually do, if you were in a wheelchair and there was a fire and no ramps, would be to go to the stairway that's the fire escape for your floor, go to the landing, and wait there while your co-worker notifies the firemen that you are on the landing. Why do you think they learn how to safely carry people? It's not just for people who are passed out from smoke; it's for people who couldn't walk to begin with. I don't know if they'd carry your wheelchair too if it was a light-weight manual one; I guess it depends on the situation.

Provided there are not too many disabled people working in the same building (this is why buildings with high disabled populations, like nursing homes, are often built single-story), this is as safe a fire plan as you are going to get. And personally, as far as risks associated with a disability go, I think it's a comparatively minor one. Maybe enough to justify always carrying a cell phone, though, in case your co-worker panicked and forgot to tell the fire department you were up there.

I really don't think that "It's on the fourth floor and I use a wheelchair" is enough of a reason not to take a job, provided they have a reasonably reliable elevator. There are far more risks from sitting at home and frying your brain on daytime TV.
I agree, but it isn't allowed here. You'd probably be dead by the time the fire brigade arrived anyway lol.
 
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