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Parenting Debate

brandi

brandi

christ on a cracker
Hello my beautiful demons,

I have a little dilemma. Me and my son's father are in debate about it as we speak. Because I know all of you are real and very blunt, and most are parents, I figured this was a good place to bring it for some outside the box action.

So my son is 4, and has never been a very good sleeper. It took a year just for him to sleep through the night.. yes it was so shitty, I wanted to pull my hair out, but didn't have the energy because I simply was not sleeping. Now that I have a 9-5, it's very important that him (my son) and I BOTH get a good night's sleep.

Ok, so he is still in a crib... Sue me... He likes that shit.. almost like it's a comfort for him. I tried to take the front off, and every time he rolled over, he fell out, and then cried. Would not get up and get back in bed like most. The front ended up going back on.

Everything has been fine. We have a night night routine that has been going on since he was 9 months old. Bath, book, bed. The 3 b's if you will... Recently I put him in his bed after the 3b's and he said I love you, goodnight, then I would shut the door, and he freaked.. like someone was trying to kill him. Seriously, he cried, yelled, screamed, finally I had been in there for an hour trying to comfort him. I said no more. He needs to know it's bed time. So I shut the door and left.

This lil shit opened the door from inside the crib (his bed was on the wall next to the door). I spanked him, I made him ,lay down, shut the door, he did the same thing. Light bulb! I moved the bed away from the door and left again. Thinking the shenanigans were over...

They were not. He climbed out of the bed, and opened the door. Oh lord... Now what will I do. He knows I'll get up, he knows it will get a rise out of me. I finally got him to lay down after calling his father, but then he was up @ 6 am sitting in front of the bathroom door.

To me that shit is dangerous. There's no telling wtf he is doing while we are asleep. Not to mention, I barely got sleep, and I'm pretty sure he didn't get much either. My solution was simple. Turn the door knob around and lock it from the outside.. ta da!

Well, daddy don't like that shit. Thinks I'm being cruel. Thinks I'm locking him in a room, like it's a fucking dungeon. What else can I do?? What else am I supposed to do?? It's so easy for him to judge because he doesn't have to deal with it. No one is keeping him awake at night.. Fuck him, what do you guys think??
 
Is he suddenly afraid of the dark? If that's the problem I would get a night light and see if that helps.
 
I have zero advice. But I love you, and hope this all settles out for you. I'm sure it's a phase of some sort.
 
So he's out the crib. Get it out of there do he doesn't get hurt climbing out. Don't get upset with him just tell him it's bed time and put him back don't do anything else it will take time but he'll realize you're serious - but not upset with him. Don't give up dont get mad. And sooner or later they're too big to be safely stuck in their crib all you can do is yours best to teach what's dangerous and don't make him scared you'll be mad if he wakes you up because what if he really needs to wake you up? And you can't lock him in his room what if theres a fire, at 4 he can get out on his own if you teach him I agree with hubby
 
I'm a big old softy when it comes to bed stuff. I figure a lot of strife and fear about bed is not conducive to good sleep. I don't think children are 100% sanguine about sleeping alone, but you've already covered that. My son, Happy, is now 10 and we're still having some issues--like a night light is no longer good enough for him, so he has a lamp with a dark shade on it that stays on all night. He recently decided that wasn't good enough and wants the overhead on, too. So, okay, I let him have it on to avoid a fight, and I turn it off when I head to bed because he's asleep and won't care. So what. The lamp is still on and he's not blind if he wakes up. If he wants his door open, I leave it ajar. If he wants is closed, I close it. This isn't a problem.

Unless there's some compelling reason you need that door closed (maybe his room opens into the living room?), why sweat it?

I get that you view the crib as a small issue, and that's fine by me, but eventually he'll be too big. Work on getting him out of the crib by lowering the side gradually or leaving it just 8 or so inches above the level of the mattress. If he still really hasn't worked out where the edges of the bed are when you get him in a big boy bed, you can still put bed rails on it so he won't roll out. Plus, beds are usually lower than cribs, so the fall won't be so long.

As to what he's doing while you're asleep, if he's quiet and the house is child-proofed-- again, so what? Having a kid that can take care of himself while you have a sleep-in is great. Just make sure he can't/won't leave the house. Talk to himabout what you want. Again and again. Make your wishes known. "Don't leave the house." "Be quiet." "Watch TV quietly." "Play quietly." "Put the milk away when you're done." "Don't play with matches." "Wipe your butt and flush the toilet. Wash your hands." You get the idea.
 
I went thru this with Corey. It takes ALOT of patience but it is possible. This child would stay up all night and then want to sleep all day, wouldn't cooperate putting on his clothes, lay on the floor, cry and scream cause he was so sleepy and he had to go to the babysitter's so we could go to work. I tried this---put him to bed same as always, do the same things, then everytime he gets up just keep putting him back to bed, stay calm, just outlast him. It may take a day or two but it will work as long as yu don't give in not ONCE, because if you do you have to start over.

I had the same problem with Corey's dad, he just wanted to let him fall asleep where ever and when ever, only problem was he would stay up as long as we did and then didn't want us to go to bed. And of course, he didn't have to deal with him in the morning. It lasted about 3 months until his dad let him stay up on the couch one night because he was "sick", took me 6 months to get him back to his bed, and I had to wait until his dad started working nights to do it.

Anything you do is going to take time, patience, and thinking alot of good thoughts, like "this too shall end".

Corey was 3-4, he had his own bunk bed in the same room with his brother, he had a night light and we were in the next room, so we weren't far away. Check out those Nanny shows, the young heavy set English one, I cannot remember her name or the name of the show but she does it the same way I did. (ETA: Supernanny is who I'm talking about like in AZmomof3's post below)

Oh yeah--he's not a baby, he needs a big boy bed, might help in getting to bed, but it might not! LOL
 
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I'm sorry. . . No great advice. . My daughter has always been a great sleeper. But i agree with the big boy bed and big boy bedtime. . . Definitely don't lock him in his room. . It may just cause him to feel trapped and scared of his room all together. . .good luck.
 
First grab the fucker by his neck, and while shaking him vigorously and screaming at the top of your lungs, keeping you face only inches from his, yell, "GET THE FUCK BACK TO BED AND GO TO SLEEEEEEEP.......LITTLE FUCKER." then give him a xanax and send him back to bed. Hope this helps;)
 
cage!!!!​

No seriously though, we never really latched the door closed unless we had company over. Kids will push what they want and it is up to you to teach them the stuff they need to know, like Tundra said. As far as the lock goes. I say no. I would not do that. You said he opened the door so he knows how. What if he has to pee, puke, has a weird white owl starring into his window, opens a portal to another dimension, makes a sweet finger paint drawing of a frog with his ass pudding, or whatever? He needs to be able to get out if he has to. You just have to teach him what to do if and when he does.

This sounds like a new test he is trying out and it will subside sooner or later. I totally understand your frustrations, obviously sleep is important for both of you. Maybe you can teach him consequences for what he is doing, like taking away the story next time if he doesn't stay in bed.

As far as the crib thing, he needs to get out of that and start sleeping in a small bed, in my opinion. The sooner you get that into a habit and comfortable, the better off you will be. Lol my youngest god son (when he was like 3 or 4) used to get up, go into the kitchen, get bread from on top of the fridge and make peanut butter sandwiches. Not really quite sure how. But he even cleaned up after himself and shit lol. We had to put a plastic kid lock on the fridge because of him!
Well hope this helps and if not, refer to the top of this comment. It is reliable and should be completely legal. ;)
 
Awe I feel your pain. My son was going on 3, and ever since he was born he slept with me in my bed. Then I had a boyfriend, and I knew it wasn't gonna happen now that bf and I were moving in together. He would stay in bed and cry, "Mommy, I scared, mommy!! I miss yew mommy... pweeease come for me mommy..." I did this nightmare for a week... then, voilà, he stopped crying an fighting. He wanted to go to bed and stay there.

Whatever you do, you need consistency. I like the 3 B's, it's what I did too.

Have you ever seen the Supernanny on TV? She has this thing where the first time you put to bed, nice and sweet, loves and kisses, and go. They get up, go put them in again and only say, it's bedtime honey. Third and any time after, you silently walk them back to bed. It looks like a major PITA, but all those kids are out cold in an hour or two. After a week or two, they are set. I was shocked t he first time I saw that episode, thinking that she was downright nuts to think that would work...and then it did!
http://www.supernanny.co.uk/Advice/-/Parenting-Skills/Getting-Toddlers-to-Stay-in-Bed.aspx

Video in action:



My son's first time all night in bed, no crying or screaming ever, and I woke him up.... I was so happy this day lol. I just wish someone had told me about the Supernanny deal in 2004... sigh.

se3twy.jpg

9qxjpe.jpg
 
Two things, consistency and say what you mean and mean what you say!

No namby pamby pussy footing around---JUST DO IT!
 
Ok the problem is, he won't go to bed. He continues to get up. Over and over and over again. He opens the door and comes out of the room. No matter how many times I put him back. I'm firm, I don't go back on my word, but as soon as the door shuts, he's up. Even if I leave it cracked, he gets up and walks right out of his room. He will not get in the bed and lay down. The door is locked until he lays down and is sleeping, then I can unlock it. But what I'm saying is I'm trying to find a way for him to understand that it is bedtime and you have to lay down and sleep. Hours of wrestling him each night while he kicks and screams is not an option.
 
Its the only thing that really works. I'm doing it as we speak and it's 10:59 pm. It takes time but it works. I'm sorry, you will be tired till he gets it.
 
woop his ass a lil.. that works just fine. screw these hippie thinking pansies.. a lil fear never hurt anyone... its what motivates people! either way you should not lock him in.. i believe there may even be a law against it.
 
billy madatchu said:
woop his ass a lil.. that works just fine. screw these hippie thinking pansies.. a lil fear never hurt anyone... its what motivates people! either way you should not lock him in.. i believe there may even be a law against it.
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I did, that shit don't phase him. And like I said, I'm not gonna just whoop him all damn night.. lol but
 
What finally got Corey to STAY in his bed was this, and I'm not proud of it but it worked, I sat with my back against his bedroom door while he kicked and screamed on the other side, I just told him you are not coming out, you will go to bed and go to sleep, this went on for about 6 hours, but in the end it got quiet and I tiptoed in and he was asleep in his bed, never had another problem with him. I never raised my voice and I tried not to act frustrated with him, I'm not sure I succeeded in that, tho. He was about 5 at this point and I had had it with him and his daddy letting him stay up and then I was having to deal with him in the morning when he'd had only about 4-5 hours of sleep when he needed about 9. I had to wait until his daddy went on the night shift so I could do something. I was accused of being mean and abusive, but this kid drove me up the wall. I love him, always have loved him but sometimes you have to do things for their own good (and your sanity) that doesn't exactly look good in hindsight.
 
brandi said:
I did, that shit don't phase him. And like I said, I'm not gonna just whoop him all damn night.. lol but
Click to expand...

I've also said that very same thing, "I can't whoop him everytime that somebody tells me I need to, cause I would be whooping him all the damn time!" Not only is that not good but I'd be more exhausted than I already was. So no, you can't whoop them everytime you need them to cooperate.
 
I co-slept with my daughter until well, shit she slept with me last night! Ha! I know that's not for everyone and honestly she does sleep in her own bed most nights. She's 8 now but when she was 4 was around when I got her in her own room and I agree consistency is key, having a 4 yr old is wonderful and fun but yeah, also frustrating. Also, not for nothing but I really don't think spanking him is going to help him fall asleep or locking him in his room either.

You may have to sacrifice some sleep for a week or so but just keep putting him back in over and over and over again and eventually, he will get it.
 
cubby said:
What finally got Corey to STAY in his bed was this, and I'm not proud of it but it worked, I sat with my back against his bedroom door while he kicked and screamed on the other side, I just told him you are not coming out, you will go to bed and go to sleep, this went on for about 6 hours, but in the end it got quiet and I tiptoed in and he was asleep in his bed, never had another problem with him. I never raised my voice and I tried not to act frustrated with him, I'm not sure I succeeded in that, tho. He was about 5 at this point and I had had it with him and his daddy letting him stay up and then I was having to deal with him in the morning when he'd had only about 4-5 hours of sleep when he needed about 9. I had to wait until his daddy went on the night shift so I could do something. I was accused of being mean and abusive, but this kid drove me up the wall. I love him, always have loved him but sometimes you have to do things for their own good (and your sanity) that doesn't exactly look good in hindsight.
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Well, unfortunately, his door open the other way. So if I sat with my back against the door, and he opened it, I'd fall in lmao... Hence, the lock. Same idea as holding the door shut. He knows it won't open. He lays down. Once he drifts off, I unlock.
 
Have you tried gentler ways of putting him to sleep? Spanking and lletting him cry is going to get him all riled up and potentially make him defensive around bedtime in the future. I'm no professional and I have never met your kid, but by looking through your kiddos eyes I too would have a hell of a time falling asleep if i had to go through that before bed.
 
Just don't give up. My stepson had never slept in his own bed or bedroom until my husband and I met and having 3 sons of my own I wasn't about to cave in and say he could sleep with us because then my boys would want to and personally I am not a fan of co-sleeping. No real reason other than kids toss, turn, kick, etc. What it came to for us was sticking to our guns. First he was only comfortable on the couch now he sleeps perfectly well in his own bed. We just never waivered. If his Nanas want to share a bed with him, then whatever but that's their house not mine.

I agree to some extent with your husband about the door lock, not because it's mean but rather I would have a fear of falling asleep before remembering to unlock it.

I say keep the routine and let him cry it out. Maybe stay right on the other side of the door and remind him that you are right there. I have always been a big fan of letting kids cry it out, I don't find it mean at all but giving in shows him that if he throws enough of a fit you will back down so DON'T back down!
 
I don't know if this will work for you but I hope so.
I utterly and completely convinced my son he was a super-hero, and his power was super strength.
Bought some Balsa (sp?) wood at the craft store when he was 3. Buy the thickest they have. It's used for building models; planes, cars, structures.) Buy several pieces. Then go buy a piece of that super tough stuff they use for clipboards and little signs you can paint.
Take him to do something that really tires him and he sleeps good out of sheer exhaustion. (For mine it was swimming. A full day of it.) Tell him that he's a super-hero the morning after the exhausted sleep. Prove it by holding the balsa stuff and have him break it with a punch. (This stuff is super fragile he should have no trouble.) Tell him you knew he would have his powers this morning because you get them from getting good sleep In your own bed. I told mine his frame was even radioactive, to enhance his powers, because you have to sell that shit. The next night if he acts up get through it as best you can, I know it sucks. But in the morning have him try punching the harder stuff. One try. Tell him his powers aren't working because of the bedtime fiasco or whatever, and that he has to get good sleep to have them. Worked for me.

Sounds like you're a good mom so just keep trying. This didn't work for my girls at all though, so if you find a way to keep those minions outta my bed let me know. (I tried holy water but they seem to be immune.)
 
brandi said:
Hello my beautiful demons,

I have a little dilemma. Me and my son's father are in debate about it as we speak. Because I know all of you are real and very blunt, and most are parents, I figured this was a good place to bring it for some outside the box action.

So my son is 4, and has never been a very good sleeper. It took a year just for him to sleep through the night.. yes it was so shitty, I wanted to pull my hair out, but didn't have the energy because I simply was not sleeping. Now that I have a 9-5, it's very important that him (my son) and I BOTH get a good night's sleep.

Ok, so he is still in a crib... Sue me... He likes that shit.. almost like it's a comfort for him. I tried to take the front off, and every time he rolled over, he fell out, and then cried. Would not get up and get back in bed like most. The front ended up going back on.

Everything has been fine. We have a night night routine that has been going on since he was 9 months old. Bath, book, bed. The 3 b's if you will... Recently I put him in his bed after the 3b's and he said I love you, goodnight, then I would shut the door, and he freaked.. like someone was trying to kill him. Seriously, he cried, yelled, screamed, finally I had been in there for an hour trying to comfort him. I said no more. He needs to know it's bed time. So I shut the door and left.

This lil shit opened the door from inside the crib (his bed was on the wall next to the door). I spanked him, I made him ,lay down, shut the door, he did the same thing. Light bulb! I moved the bed away from the door and left again. Thinking the shenanigans were over...

They were not. He climbed out of the bed, and opened the door. Oh lord... Now what will I do. He knows I'll get up, he knows it will get a rise out of me. I finally got him to lay down after calling his father, but then he was up @ 6 am sitting in front of the bathroom door.

To me that shit is dangerous. There's no telling wtf he is doing while we are asleep. Not to mention, I barely got sleep, and I'm pretty sure he didn't get much either. My solution was simple. Turn the door knob around and lock it from the outside.. ta da!

Well, daddy don't like that shit. Thinks I'm being cruel. Thinks I'm locking him in a room, like it's a fucking dungeon. What else can I do?? What else am I supposed to do?? It's so easy for him to judge because he doesn't have to deal with it. No one is keeping him awake at night.. Fuck him, what do you guys think??
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Please don't lock him in his room. Please no matter how innocent and no matter how much safer it is for him, Please don't do it.
What if there was a house fire and god forbid he died, The whole having him locked in his room might get you charged with a crime.
ORRRRR what if he just happens to tell the day care lady or someone that mommy locks me in my room? That sounds sinister and if its reported and CPS see's the door knob backwards so it can be locked from the outside, You will have a lot of explaining to do.

One of my sons (now 29) was hyper active and a danger to himself and others. I had to work nights and couldn't afford to pay for child care at night and during the day so I could sleep. You just would not believe the shit that little brat came up with. Well, We both lived through it.

I have another thought, I feel like something has happened to him recently that has changed the routine. Maybe some kids are being mean at daycare or perhaps the day care provider? Give him a nightlight, Compromise with the door and use a door stop to leave it cracked about 4" or so. Tell him (at 4 he should understand compromise) you are willing to give him this much (the door cracked 4") if he gets out of bed then the door will be closed. Children until about the age 8 live in the moment, Maybe he is feeling separation anxiety since you have returned to work? <~~ just a guess.

I feel for you. I remember the zombie like state from lack of sleep. I remember the time my son threw 5 pounds of shredded cheese all over the house. I remember when the little fucker got my cockatiel out of his cage and threw him out the door. (I still miss that bird because he never gave me grief.) I remember when the little dumb ass wrote all over his face and my leather couch with permanent marker. I would like to say after age 4 it gets easier... It doesn't as they grow, so does the shit they think of. One comforting thing though... There will be good times too.


One last thought. He might be getting his sleep at the day care. A lot of times the provider is lazy and loves it when the kids sleep all day. Make sure you give the daycare provider a specific length of time for napping.
 
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Keepalowprofile said:
Please don't lock him in his room. Please no matter how innocent and no matter how much safer it is for him, Please don't do it.
What if there was a house fire and god forbid he died, The whole having him locked in his room might get you charged with a crime.
ORRRRR what if he just happens to tell the day care lady or someone that mommy locks me in my room? That sounds sinister and if its reported and CPS see's the door knob backwards so it can be locked from the outside, You will have a lot of explaining to do.

One of my sons (now 29) was hyper active and a danger to himself and others. I had to work nights and couldn't afford to pay for child care at night and during the day so I could sleep. You just would not believe the shit that little brat came up with. Well, We both lived through it.

I have another thought, I feel like something has happened to him recently that has changed the routine. Maybe some kids are being mean at daycare or perhaps the day care provider? Give him a nightlight, Compromise with the door and use a door stop to leave it cracked about 4" or so. Tell him (at 4 he should understand compromise) you are willing to give him this much (the door cracked 4") if he gets out of bed then the door will be closed. Children until about the age 8 live in the moment, Maybe he is feeling separation anxiety since you have returned to work? <~~ just a guess.

I feel for you. I remember the zombie like state from lack of sleep. I remember the time my son threw 5 pounds of shredded cheese all over the house. I remember when the little fucker got my cockatiel out of his cage and threw him out the door. (I still miss that bird because he never gave me grief.) I remember when the little dumb ass wrote all over his face and my leather couch with permanent marker. I would like to say after age 4 it gets easier... It doesn't as they grow, so does the shit they think of. One comforting thing though... There will be good times too.


One last thought. He might be getting his sleep at the day care. A lot of times the provider is lazy and loves it when the kids sleep all day. Make sure you give the daycare provider a specific length of time for napping.
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He has a night light. A projecting one. That puts pictures up on the ceiling.

I guess I should update you guys any ways, so here goes:

Well, I kind of came up with a solution. He told me after about a day of screaming and fighting me all night, that he was scared of the dark. So, I turned his closet light on and left the door open.

He still wakes up and cries @ 5 am every morning, but he's getting better about bed time. I also talked with his father about getting him a separate bed, I think that would help a lot. Thank for all the advice guys!
 
Awesome work Mom. One day you will look back on this... (When he is about 13 and wants his door closed and never wants to come out of his room.) ... and say *I remember when.*

One of my *I remember when*
When my boys turned 8 and 10, One morning before it was time to leave the house the older son says "sit down Mom, we want to talk to you." I was so startled. He proceeds to tell me "we have talked it over and we don't want you hugging or kissing us good bye or hello." I started to cry and my younger boy said "don't worry, you can still be our mom." then the older boy said "We know you still have to walk us into the daycare and sign us in and we're okay with that part because its the rule, but just don't say I love You or anything like that or try to hug us."
 
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