Why Isn't Being Transgender Viewed As Having A Mental Illness?

[Sudonim]

The fact that you wouldn't give information that could help to someone that claims to have bipolar disorder because they're being childish either makes you a child yourself... or full of shit. I'm betting on the latter...

I can't help you Jake, none of us can. You are so sure that you are bipolar that you've started to psychoeducate yourself, but you've missed the first step for psychoeducation. Being diagnosed and starting your meds. That is the help you need. You live in a country that makes it free for you to do so. There is absolutely no excuse not to seek treatment.

 

[Edwina Gein]

But the thread isn't about rape, hetero, homo or trans... Nor is it about Conservatives being what you seem to think are heartless assholes. @Jake88 questioned if transgender people are mentally ill.

I know what the thread's about. I've been reading it.

You think it is acceptable for a grown man to put on a dress and pretend he is a lesbian, so he can ogle women in a locker room...and you equate me with unicorns?

That's what I was referring to, buffett.

 

[thatsmallgrl]

I honestly think the idea of being offended by certain terms even existing is mind baffling. I find it equally mind baffling that it bothers someone so much that doesn't even have to use them. I don't get it.

It used to been that the struggles faced by lgbt community were legitmate issues but now its being hijacked by other things that these issues seemed to be placed on the back burner.

Do you really believe that this at the forefront of the LGBT community? I don't. Not all. We as a whole are still working towards equality and informing others against ignorance and hatred. The vast amount of people I know within this community could care less about words used. If it's not derogatory it doesn't make a difference.

I grew up in NY. I could care less about lists that they make. NY is revenue driven. Always has been. There is no law stating that those terms on the list have to be used in public. It's not like you'd get arrested if you didn't use them. Violation of free speech and all.

I spend a lot of time in gay bars, here in Florida, plenty in NY. I have never come across a transgender person who has asked me to call them anything other than their name. I refer to them as the sex they want to be referred to. Honestly if they asked me to call them something else, I would be happy to oblige. Out of respect. I certainly wouldn't be offended because they asked me to.

Maybe it has a lot to do with my own struggles with my sexuality as to why that doesn't bother me. Whatever the reason, I see no reason to get all annoyed by it.

 

[brokenandtwisted]

This is an odd approach to the topic. It is always best to question why something is classified as a 'mental illness'. I have posted here before on the matter, so I won't rehash. But the issue with mental 'illnesses' is that they are, largely, socially constructed. There's an overwhelming amount of biology involved, but if we approach any illness as 'X' is wrong with 'Y person' because 'Z' is 'normal', we're diving into the murky waters of social Darwinism to use biology as invalidation ideology. Sorry, but I am of the opinion that we cannot allow sociology to influence medical practice.

Specifically, your gender is not your sex and your sex is neither your gender or sexuality. They are three mutually exclusive concepts. I know that's difficult for many people to conceive, but it's true. You can identify as a lesbian woman and a 'biological' male, @Pete Bondurant. There's still hope for you. Even in Australia.

 

[Sue sue]

I will grant you the good intentions on the parents' part, Muriel, but Money was An Activist. And like most activists he Had An Agenda.

He was out to prove that gender is a matter of nurture and that nature played no role. Some of the things he had David (then called Brenda) and his twin brother Brian do were, quite frankly, abusive. And not borderline abusive; among other things, he had the twins simulating rear-entry sexual intercourse and examining each others genitals. Some speculate that this abuse may have played a role in triggering Brian's schizophrenia; whether or not it did, Brian also took his own life two years before David did.

I saw that. I am as horrified by that case as I am with the case of Bruce/Brenda/David, and I am happy that the incubator's abuse did not extend as far as an orchidectomy. I pray the boy can recover.

--Al

This was an SUV episode. Now I know where they got it from.
[doublepost=1483282887,1483281768][/doublepost]

Gender dysphoria is and the only way to treat it is to become the sex you personally indetify as male or female. The main issue i have with trans is the transtrenders. I hate that nonbinary shit. In almost every species theres male and female be one or the other but dont claim you are devoid of gender and sex because you happen to like male and female things. Its ugh undermining to actual trans issues and demeaning to that those that actually suffer from the ill affects of transphobia. So unles if you repilcate by splitting cells your not truly asexual...you can have asexual feelings and not like sex but if you cant reproduce on your own not truly asexual.

There are species of animals that can change sex.
[doublepost=1483283051][/doublepost]

Ha, I am liking this rarely person, keep em' raging, doll face.

Jake, I have you on ignore so I get none of your notifications so constantly tagging me is a waste of your time, nor do I read your posts. I skim when someone else's quotes you, I think I've explained this like 3494905894 times already. I have 0 interest in your opinion on virtually every single topic, ever. I am just waiting for you to rage quit again.

Sexuality isn't a mental illness. The human body is a scientific miracle consisting of approximately a hundred trillions cells and every cell can mean a slight difference in who and what we become. It is willful ignorance to think that transgender and homosexuality and every sexuality on the spectrum isn't biological and natural, even pedophilia though we do know that pedophilia isn't always something one is "born." Sex with anything or anyone living that cannot consent does make you scum, same as a straight man who rapes a straight woman. Scum. Degenerate. Unworthy of humanity. It's pretty simple. To be bothered by how someone else feels about their body, what their sexuality entails or how they present their "face" to the world? As I said previously, that issue lies with you.

If you have zero interest in Jake why do you keep writing to him? That is very confusing.

 

[lithiumgirl]

Bc i think it completely underminds the actual struggles and hardships faced by those who wish to lead happy and fulfilling lives what ever gender they maybe be.

This is why I support Trumps position on the special bathrooms. Providing Trans bathrooms undermines the movement. I wouldn;t have a problem sharing a bathroom with a transgendered person. In fact I wouldn't mind sharing a washroom with anyone ... Over Christmas i used the mens room at the Eaton's Centre because there was no line. No one paid me any attention.
i am more concerned about crime than I am about gender in public toilets. Junkies ... and anonymous sex that is part of gay culture ... (yes it is and its not secret that cruising the rest room is a thing for SOME gay men.) Those things are against the law. And perhaps not providing transgender restrooms with be a deterrent to those kind of behaviours. While expecting anyone to use THE restroom of the gender they most identify with supports their cause.

 

[Muriel Schwenck]

If you have zero interest in Jake why do you keep writing to him? That is very confusing.

YES! I wonder that too.

 

[lithiumgirl]

@Jake88 doesn't turn me on. I admire fitness and everything but he looks like he just got out of high school. He is wildly hilarious though and some kind of grocery store hero!

 

[Jake88]

@Jake88 doesn't turn me on. I admire fitness and everything but he looks like he just got out of high school. He is wildly hilarious though and some kind of grocery store hero!

I'm almost 30!!!!!!! When I'm 50... it will look like I just got out of college! Oh, and I totally woke up with a hair on my face this morning too!

ETA: OMG! This thread isn't yet?
[doublepost=1483301448,1483299633][/doublepost]

I can't help you Jake, none of us can. You are so sure that you are bipolar that you've started to psychoeducate yourself, but you've missed the first step for psychoeducation. Being diagnosed and starting your meds. That is the help you need. You live in a country that makes it free for you to do so. There is absolutely no excuse not to seek treatment.

Lol. Refusing to get diagnosed and medicated would also fall right in line with somebody being bipolar... but anyway!

You know why people can't be trusted to self diagnose? Because most people aren't honest with themselves. I don't have that problem. Clearly.

As for self diagnosis, I never spoke of being bi-polar on this forum until I was "diagnosed" by many different "experts" on here. I just lived with the fact that knew I was mental, I don't really care either way but what difference does it make if a doctor tells me I'm bipolar if I refuse to take meds? I think Transgender people are mentally ill, but rather than give them meds or a fucking lobotomy to make them think normally, we tell them to spread their beautiful wings like the peacock they are! JUST LET ME BE A PEACOCK DAMN IT!!!!

This is irrelevant because I never asked for help anyway lol. I was pointing out how childish you were being. You said I was all "neener neener!" and then went and did the same thing with your "valuable PHD make it or break it" articles when they could have theoretically helped me. Instead you chose to say "neener neener you can't have them!" lol.

Lastly, somebody on here casually stated that someone can identify as a lesbian and a biological male. Nothing fucking casual or normal about that- thank you very much! They also stated that it is best to question why something is classified as a mental illness as opposed to vice versa. As if the dawn of man came with a manual for classified mental illness that we just openly referred to. Nope! We truly do know whether the chicken or the egg came first in this scenario.

We started deciding what was a mental illness, not what isn't.

This is an odd approach to the topic. It is always best to question why something is classified as a 'mental illness'. I have posted here before on the matter, so I won't rehash.

Here's that quote! With this logic, there wouldn't be ANY mental illness! How could I question why Transgender disorder is classified as a mental illness... if it isn't!

Specifically, your gender is not your sex and your sex is neither your gender or sexuality. They are three mutually exclusive concepts. I know that's difficult for many people to conceive, but it's true.

I don't know what to say here. Somebody that experiences emotion to a greater extreme, making them more empathetic in most cases... is mentally ill though! There's gotta be some kind of extreme emotions involved when you feel like a woman with a dick between your legs. Just my opinion...

 

[Edwina Gein]

Thread title asks why trans isn't viewed as having a mental illness. It is. That's how you're viewing it, that's how other people are viewing it. You've answered your own question

But some people don't share those views and are offering their own. That's why the thread hasn't ended, we're arguing. Arguing's fun and engaging

Anyway, is anyone gonna answer my question on why people only focus on MTF trans? I'm genuinely curious, I want to know those views

Because so far all I'm getting is that people are afraid of hooking up and finding a penis/vagina on someone they don't expect to find those on. I mean you wouldn't see it in a bathroom

 

[lithiumgirl]

There's gotta be some kind of extreme emotions involved when you feel like a woman with a dick between your legs. Just my opinion...

If you don't pass the psyche test they won't remove that (dick) for you, and otherwise they wont build you one (a dick) either.

 

[everjaded]

If you don't pass the psyche test they won't remove that (dick) for you, and otherwise they wont build you one (a dick) either.

But there ARE instances of people who transition and then later come to regret it.

Can someone much more savvy than me pull any data on what those figures are? Just curious. Not trying to get into the whole whether it's right or wrong train wreck. It's not impacting me in any way if people want/need to transition. Except maybe my insurance premiums.

 

[Edwina Gein]

Recent studies say that less than 4% regret it and it's estimated 1% de-transition

 

[Countess Olenska]

There are two genders male female you can indentify as either anything inbetween is bs. If you have zero interest why do you make it a point to be willful cunt to anyone who so happens to disagree with you? Oh thats right you swallowed the tumblur cultural marxist cool aid so much so that any differing opinion is seen as willful attack on your own echo chamber narrative.Congrats fucktard your raging bullshit attutude just secured the next four years underneath conservative control keep it up and perhaps the next few decades will be secured your like one of the 10000000000000+ reasons why the dems will keep losing the battle.

Oh lord, Read a book. There is most definitely an in-between with gender.

There is scientifically proven to be a middle ground when it comes to genital anatomy and ambiguation of said genitalia at birth. This can be caused by chromosomal abnormalities, hormonal deficiencies, congenital defects like with malfunctioning adrenal glands, abnormal testicle development, enzyme deficiencies, etc. The list goes on and on. Shit, a boy born with severe hypospadias could be confused with a girl based on physical appearance at birth. That would mean that your external characteristics may be mis-matched to how people feel inside.

 

[rarely]

the idea of word policing

ok so all languages are ever changing, they have since the dawn of man and will be for far longer then we are all here... no one is policing your words but you ... what really happening is youre being socially shunned for using ridiculous words that mean deeper things to others then they do to you ... thus you feeling you should be able to use them

last person to be arrested in america for offensive language was lenny bruce ( i recommend you read " how to talk dirty and influence people" )
[doublepost=1483409201,1483409141][/doublepost]

Read a book

as we all should


post script- on the subject of out of date words, one of my favorite ol' timey words is lucifer when referring to a match- you see before the safety match was invented matches were extremly dangerous, not just the production which was ( see Flossy Jaw) but also the carrying and storage. matches in your pocket could ignite at almost anytime , pair that with a poor fire response system and smoking generally being socially acceptable and you have the makings of hell on earth, and as such they were nicknamed lucifers.

 

[McDanel]

http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/30/healt...ificate/?iid=ob_homepage_deskrecommended_pool

Link to another person's intersex birth, and the aftermath.
[doublepost=1483462861,1483415024][/doublepost]

ok so all languages are ever changing, they have since the dawn of man and will be for far longer then we are all here... no one is policing your words but you ... what really happening is youre being socially shunned for using ridiculous words that mean deeper things to others then they do to you ... thus you feeling you should be able to use them

last person to be arrested in america for offensive language was lenny bruce ( i recommend you read " how to talk dirty and influence people" )
[doublepost=1483409201,1483409141][/doublepost]
as we all should


post script- on the subject of out of date words, one of my favorite ol' timey words is lucifer when referring to a match- you see before the safety match was invented matches were extremly dangerous, not just the production which was ( see Flossy Jaw) but also the carrying and storage. matches in your pocket could ignite at almost anytime , pair that with a poor fire response system and smoking generally being socially acceptable and you have the makings of hell on earth, and as such they were nicknamed lucifers.

Phossy jaw, and the exposed necrotic bone would glow in the dark, shudder. I'll also note, Lucifer translates to "light bringer".

 

[Jake88]

If you don't pass the psyche test they won't remove that (dick) for you, and otherwise they wont build you one (a dick) either.

What does a psyche test entail? Just out of curiosity. I am damn sure I could pass one, and we all know I ain't normal lol! I'd keep my sense of humor to myself though, probably the safe move.
[doublepost=1483492805,1483491715][/doublepost]

Thread title asks why trans isn't viewed as having a mental illness. It is. That's how you're viewing it, that's how other people are viewing it. You've answered your own question

Really! Wow. I googled just to make sure because I was under the impression that it wasn't. I also think I must have been right in my assumption with all of the resistance. Nobody once said it was to my knowledge.

ETA: I meant I saw mixed results when I googled... but saw the more recent leanings were towards it not being mental illness. That would make the post about me asking the wrong question make a lot more sense though.

 

[alifinrox]

*deep breath*
ok. in order to be diagnosed and accepted as transgender, a mental health professional makes the determination of 'gender dysphoria'.

right?

sooooo why are we even debating this?

ty to jake88 for having the guts to actually approach this topic. i'd love to have good, intelligent conversations on this topic- its sooo interesting to me!
[doublepost=1483494301,1483493354][/doublepost]one thing i have been noticing over these last few years is the irony in the fact that such a majority of transsexuals (including the rare few who legitimately, actually DO have gender dysphoria issues) choose to protest societies gender roles by.....amplifying and reenacting them.

 

[rarely]

Lucifer translates to "light bringer".

nice i like it

 

[alifinrox]

as i understand it, there are 2 genders, and rarely there is ambiguity and a sex is surgically assigned. but i do not believe that that state of ambiguity is its own gender.

 

[McDanel]

Ambi

as i understand it, there are 2 genders, and rarely there is ambiguity and a sex is surgically assigned. but i do not believe that that state of ambiguity is its own gender.

Ambiguity is far more common than you realize. Society is largely unaware because parents are forced to an either/or choice. Imagine the shock of the adoptive parents in the story above to discover their daughter wasn't going through puberty normally because she was genetically male?

I've a friend who has worked at Children's Hospital in Oakland. She says they almost always have an intersex child in their care, she's seen literally hundreds.

Wiki the DMRT1 gene, the timing of it's expression can affect both physical and mental development.

 

[brokenandtwisted]

Here's that quote! With this logic, there wouldn't be ANY mental illness! How could I question why Transgender disorder is classified as a mental illness... if it isn't!

I don't follow. You've already made up your mind on the matter judging from the thread title. There are many mental illnesses. Yes, this is true. I am explicitly referring to the stigma (a social construct) associated with mental illness.

 

[Edwina Gein]

Anyway 4Chan is trolling with a new gender called clovergender/kindergender saying it's people who think they're children trapped in the body of an adult and attracted to other children

It's supposed to be an anti-SJW movement to make them look stupid for supporting pedophiles because idk SJWs will support anything as long as it ends in -gender (??? okay) but I think it's mainly just going to piss off trans people and trick a lot of pedos into thinking there's a PC loophole so good job, y'all

 

[rarely]

And why should i be shunned because i chose to adress someone as him or her instead of their special snowflake pronouns? If a stranger looks likes acts like a boy or man as normal as he or him or sir viceversa for those who look and act like a woman or girl.

isn't a better question Why do you feel you need to categorize everyone?

what this all boils down to is respecting each other...

In my experience with many cultures if youre unsure what to call someone that shows them you respect them, ask ... I have never received negativity when i sincerely ask a question about anything...

[doublepost=1483671620,1483669558][/doublepost]

You know why people can't be trusted to self diagnose? Because most people aren't honest with themselves. I don't have that problem. Clearly.

most people who arent honest with themselves think they are being honest with themselves.... and a diagnosis on all but a select few mental disorders is just an opinion ... if you think it might help you go to a doc , if youre just looking for a way to explain some things youre feeling or ways your acting keep doing what youre doing..

 

[FrayedKnot]

ok so all languages are ever changing, they have since the dawn of man and will be for far longer then we are all here... no one is policing your words but you ... what really happening is youre being socially shunned for using ridiculous words that mean deeper things to others then they do to you ... thus you feeling you should be able to use them

last person to be arrested in america for offensive language was lenny bruce ( i recommend you read " how to talk dirty and influence people" )
[doublepost=1483409201,1483409141][/doublepost]
as we all should


post script- on the subject of out of date words, one of my favorite ol' timey words is lucifer when referring to a match- you see before the safety match was invented matches were extremly dangerous, not just the production which was ( see Flossy Jaw) but also the carrying and storage. matches in your pocket could ignite at almost anytime , pair that with a poor fire response system and smoking generally being socially acceptable and you have the makings of hell on earth, and as such they were nicknamed lucifers.

I like "fisticuffs" , "happenchance" and, when I want to piss off people with a below-fifth-grade vocab, I adore "niggardly".

Archaic words are fun.

 

[ChaosKitty]

We have young transgender kids now because people we encourage their mental illness instead of actually trying to help them...[/QUOTE]
The laws were created and still in place from Victorian times when a prominent psychiatrist had created cocaine & helped people become heavily addicted to that and opioids while in treatment and felt all of the hysterical repressed women really wanted dicks not freedom and needed hysterectomies and laudem to contain themselves. I feel there have always been people who didn't fit into the box of what they were physically assigned as well as others who were somewhere in between provably medically. It happens. people are maybe over emphasizing now as a backlash to the repression before. I do feel a thorough psych evaluation should be paneled before someone has something as extreme as a physical transformation but don't feel that homosexuality or transexuals should be put into the same category as mentally ill

 

[hookerspit]

To each its own really.. I could give a fuck if a man wants to be a women or vice versa. More power to um!

But what I don't get (not the brightest bulb) is how parents allow their 4 and 5 year old children to decide they want to be a different gender. The whole point of age of consent is because kid brains don't understand shit. They can't weigh the options and think of long term. So it's up to the parents to not put lipstick and dresses on their boys and laugh telling him he's cute. Of course the kid is going to want to do it again the next day, because kids do anything for attention. Become a free thinking adult and then make life changing decisions.

 

[Mata Hari]

So it's up to the parents to not put lipstick and dresses on their boys and laugh telling him he's cute.

The thing is, it's not parents putting lipstick on their boys, it's the boys doing it themselves and the parents deciding to support them or not.

 

[Mata Hari]

I really don't get that logic.

Yeah, my little brother has dressed in drag a few times over the years, it doesn't make you a drag queen, trans, or gay. People are born with gender identity and sexual preference. It's not something they choose.

 

[hookerspit]

Not all. Some.
Giving hormones to an eight year old because that's what they want is pretty sick. They do not understand fully what they are doing.

 

[hookerspit]

Most cases go hand in hand. Not dress up play.. But something that becomes praised and a part of daily life. Yes that is what the hormones are for.

 

[hookerspit]

Not forcing. Pretending like their little minds are capable of adult decisions.

 

[lithiumgirl]

If my child ever focused on this ...I would set limits ... Like is your homework done, are the garbage cans in ... is the dog fed, did you put your laundry away ... is your bed made, did you brush your teeth ... is your room tidy, because these are the things children should worry about or otherwise give consideration too ... if all those things were done and done well everyday ... then and only then would I let this other issue into my house.