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but somehow Muslims should just give in and convert?

Didn't think she was expecting anyone to change religion. She found fault with the way soooo many of these people choose to practice their religion. Big difference.

I could be wrong of course, i can only stomach quick skimmings of the novels she routinely writes on this board.

and her note that every refugee is another Muslim on our side.

There have been assaults committed by some of these refugees though. This seems like an absurd overreach and exageration in the other direction. Now we're supposed to believe ALL muslims refugees are good? Nonsense.
 
Didn't think she was expecting anyone to change religion. She found fault with the way soooo many of these people choose to practice their religion. Big difference.

I could be wrong of course, i can only stomach quick skimmings of the novels she routinely writes on this board.
No, you are right, she didn't explicitly say to change religion--rather to abandon it in some form if coming to Western countries:
Yet we allow them to bring all the ideas and beliefs with them. And we let them continue to practice this lifestyle, culture and religion when they're amongst us.....We seem so scared to stand up and say 'we do not follow this methodology or way of life. It is simply incompatible with our way.'
I hate that they are so phlegmatic, so immoveably determined to retain their beliefs, despite the misery it brings to tens of millions of them. And I hate that when everything gets too unsafe and miserable in their own home nations where they insist on following the culture and political views tbaf their beliefs dictate, they run to our nations - and yet still bring those damn beliefs with them.
Which is, perhaps ironically, the way Jews were viewed during various persecutions.

There have been assaults committed by some of these refugees though. This seems like an absurd overreach and exageration in the other direction. Now we're supposed to believe ALL muslims refugees are good? Nonsense.
A bit contrary to your early post, Jack:
I wonder how much of this ISIS sex slavery business is merely thugs pimping broads out. The same shit happens in America and it's not the least bit uncommon. We see stories like this and think there's an army of muslims buying into this stuff, when really it may only be a small number(grand scheme of things of course) of muslim equivalent "thugs". Really not the type of story worth getting too worked up over.
I wasn't saying ALL muslim refugees are inherently great people, just that they are as good or bad as any of us.
 
No, you are right, she didn't explicitly say to change religion--rather to abandon it in some form if coming to Western countries:

Meh, i don't care enough about the user and their poorly written, absurdly excessive rant to be too concerned about this. I will say however that it appears to me she was speaking in context to the damaging aspects of the religion. I read it that they cling on to the destructive beliefs. And Methodology/way of life isn't necessarily the same as "religion".

And there are quite a few stories of the refugees finding fault with the way the Western nations they've fleeed to are running things. There seems to be, at least on some level, an element of refugees getting pissy and expecting a change from their new homes. Some negativity is warranted. It's an ugly, complicated situation and dismissing such negativities as someone merely "turning your back on helpless peopel cause they are an inconvenience" is quite dumb and misguided.

A bit contrary to your early post, Jack:

It wasn't contrary in the slightest. Read better or quit fucking posting. No room for shit like this in an otherwise intelligent discussion.

I wasn't saying ALL muslim refugees are inherently great people, just that they are as good or bad as any of us.

That may have been the meaning, but the comment i was responding to literally had the words "EVERY refugee is another muslim ON OUR SIDE".
 
These fucking idiots need to be wiped the fuck off the planet!!! There is no reason other than our wonderful president loves these fucking worthless people. I wish america would stand the fuck up and say we are not doing this anymore!!! We the people are tired of you alls bullshit!!!
 
Why is it, that we're so damn afraid to actually DO something about Islam, about Wahhabism and about Isis?

Here we have solid gold proof of women being sold as fucking sex slaves by these filthy pigs - yet Facebook allows the 'ads'. They'll take down a picture of a woman breastfeeding her child, or a man sitting in the shower with his sick baby in his lap. They'll censor photos of women's breasts as though its somehow shameful or perverse for a woman to show her breasts, but they are OK with advertising the sexual slavery of kidnapped women in this part of the world?

We know full well they're using Facebook and Twitter to communicate, to plot and plan. 9 days ago these ad's went up. The article says they were 'quickly' taken down. Not quickly enough, if 9 days later we can see a news article notifying that this took place. Where is Facebook and that idiot running the show over there, coming out loud and clear, scrying this sickening shit?

We hear Muslims from all around the world, whether they openly support Isis or not, braying hatred for the Jews. Screaming for the eradication of Israel and every Jew living there.

We sit back and let them deny women education, civil rights, basic freedoms. The insistence on wrapping women in bedsheets to hide their bodies and faces.

We see women and girls slaughtered so as to 'protect' the 'honour' of their families. Rape victims vilified and often killed, women stoned for being 'caught' communicating with men they are not related to, married to, or owned by.

We sit back and tsk tsk, but allow the genital mutilation of little girls to occur, where their clitorises are SCRAPED from their little bodies with a rock and their vulva's sewn closed, leaving tiny openings designed to be torn open brutally by their husbands upon marriage - assuming they don't die from shock, blood loss or infection as a result of the torture visited upon them.

They will never experience sexual pleasure after this. They often have genuine lifelong problems with menstruating, with urinating and defecating. With enduring their husband's desires for sexual penetration and with childbirth. And of course, those poor women who do have these troubles as a direct result of FGM? Are shunned. Discriminated against. Ostracized. Left to suffer in pain, in misery, in discomfort and fear. (Look up the women in Somalia who are homeless, beaten, robbed, raped and tormented, because they can't 'keep themselves clean' due to bladder and bowel incontinence from FGM.)

We sit back and watch their nation's slowly implode with civil unrest and violence, poverty, lack of opportunities and sheer human misery - then open our doors for when they flood to our modern democracies for aid and seek asylum.

Yet we allow them to bring all the ideas and beliefs with them. And we let them continue to practice this lifestyle, culture and religion when they're amongst us, eventually building up enough adherents both with immigration and large birthed families, so that they then can turn around and start demanding change in order to suit them.

We seem so scared to stand up and say 'we do not follow this methodology or way of life. It is simply incompatible with our way.' If you do try to say this openly, you are decried and shunned, as a bigot, or a racist or an Islamaphobe.

We seem to want to turn a blind eye to the misery these beliefs and this political ideology cause, millions of Muslims, living in misery, in squalor, in fear, in ignorance. Until they arrive on our shores, demanding their human rights, our welfare, our housing, our jobs, our rights and benefits - all the whilst, insisting on carrying the Islamic monkey on their back. 'Inshallah, they say. As God Wills It'. They are famously phlegmatic, until they feel their Prophet or their faith or their culture, or their political state is being disrespected, or shamed. They miraculously come to life then. Murdering film makers, putting out death threats, demanding that certain 'infidels' deserve to die for not kowtowing to their beliefs and faith. They blame the Jews for every conceivable and inconceivable problem in their lives and believe that the eradication of the Jewish race and the Jewish state will magically fix everything. Because 'inshallah.'

And all of this I have mentioned, with the exception of the advertising of sex slaves, are actions, behaviours and choices committed by and made by, normal, 'non-terrorism' Muslims and 'normal' Islamic nations. By these supposed Moderates.

Why are we so afraid to just say 'no'. And 'we do not accept this'? Why do we keep pumping foreign aid into these nation's, and then continually accepting tides of migrants and refugee seekers from the same nations?

Why do we continue to share our scientific, medical and cultural advances, discoveries and breakthroughs with them? They certainly grasp onto the benefits that we have. No matter how poor, how ignorant, how downtrodden, no matter how unsafe they may be in their home country of origin, they have smartphones and internet access. They have electricity and running water. They have hospitals filled with professionals trained in Western medicine. Tools and equipment invented to save lives.

They have household appliances, air conditioning, cars, trucks, planes etc etc. They certainly grasp the inventions of the rest of the world with both hands, whilst demanding the right to live their way - until they want to come to our nation's and have even better access to even better things. All whilst insisting on the right to drag that monkey on their back with them - and being violently opposed to any reason, debate or difference in opinion over their beliefs and faith.

All of us, all Western nations, have had some of our Muslim citizens bolt off to Syria to join Isis. And these are the kids of the initial migrants and asylum seekers. They are keeping their Islamic life, faith, culture and beliefs alive and well at home, in their mosques and schools. In the isolated communities we allowed them to enclave to. And they are raising a new generation of men and women who are obscenely fundamental. Who grew up amongst us, with every opportunity at their fingertips - their families and communities made damn sure though, that they stayed 'true'. And its these young idiots who flounce off to fight and die, to marry and die, in that Isis hellhole utopia they think so highly of.

But we don't sit back and ask ourselves what we did wrong. Where we went wrong as societies to have this breed amongst us, under our noses. We're too afraid of being decried a bigot, a racist or an Islamaphobe.

With our own respective nation's - we sit here and go 'oh wow, that's sick' when we see an article that says 'Isis selling sex slaves on Facebook'. And then we ultimately push it to the back of our minds and stay away from such an inflammatory topic.

We invaded Afghanistan, we invaded Libya, we got involved in the so-called Arab Spring in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt, we tried to incite it in other ME nations. We invaded Iraq twice on questionable moral and ethical standpoints, we stand back whike Syria and Iraq burn - and whike Yemen is being shredded in a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Or more accurately, between fucking Sunni and fucking Shiite Muslims.

Yet we sit back now, when it really is time to fix this nightmare for once and for all, and we just don't do anything. We don't draw a line in the sand with Saudi Arabia. Or Iran for that matter. We pump billions yearly into Africa and the ME in aid and share everything with them, but still take in huge numbers of their citizens.

Enough is enough. It is beyond time that we addressed the big ass elephant in the room and admitted that Islam is a gigantic problem and that not only are Muslims paying the consequences of this ideology, faith and political state - but so are all of us.

We give this section of humanity and this ideology far more power, on a multitude of levels, than it honestly deserves.

Sorry for the mega rant.
We are not afraid of Isis and as soon as we rid ourselves of that worthless wussy (you didn't build it) Obama, something will get done
You remind me of someone who enjoys hearing themselves talk, or writing forever and a day
 
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I believe she is for sale. The person that is going to pay eight grand for her, is going to take care of her...she will have a purpose, she will get fed, she will make a contribution, she will likely bear children, who will be loved, and fed, and educated. she is wearing a hijab, she didn't just leave glamour shots. In Islam being a single woman is like a curse. The women there are LOOKING for husbands. They are looking to be part of a house hold that can sustain four wives. That she averts her eyes, in her culture that's normal. I avert my eyes...lots of times. This year I discovered I like
trucker caps sometimes. Its not oppressive...its modesty.
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I wish america would stand the fuck up and say we are not doing this anymore!!!


Define this...because America is a fucking sewer. You're here ... on this site full of Awfulness.
America should not do a lot of things any more. Fcuking VILE!
 
@sarahdownunder

I just wrote a reply and surpassed even my ability to waffle lol :) it wouldn't let me post it due to the length! So. Clearly I have a problem with waffling and I'm going to do my best to write the shortest possible post - so apologies if I seem abrupt, its not my intent!

OK. I don't think they should convert at all. Either stay away from the West while they maintain Islam in its current 3tier form. Or, reform it. Their choice. Come to us, abide by us, like we would have to abide by them if we moved there. Or stay away and have it your way.

I'm a massive supporter of the Jewish race and the State of Israel. I personally am sickened by the antisemitism displayed throughout the Islamic world, practiced by way too many to consider it an idea only followed by a few. The Jews have been persecuted for centuries. By nearly bloody everyone. Antisemitic AND fascism were widely supported across the West whilst Hitler was murdering Jews. Saving the Jews, was shamefully, an afterthought in WW2.

I will freely admit that I turn my back on economic migration. There is a world of difference from an economic migrant to an asylum seeker. And I genuinely support not only accepting sincere asylum seekers, but increasing the intake rates from UN refugee camps. But not economic migrants.

The link you've posted, regarding achievements within Islam. Are all from the 'Islamic Golden Age'. Islam back then, was far advanced scientifically to Christianity. But when Christianity moved to Reformation, then eventually onto the Age of Enlightenment, Islam didn't. Islam was slowly declining at this point. And then, Wahhabism popped its ugly little head up and quickly dragged the whole lot back, centuries. In that link, it describes several areas of wonderful inventions. But from the 8th century. The 12th, the 6th etc. That's not to denigrate them at all, but nothing has been achieved in the modern age in the areas of science and medicine. They're stagnated. They're riding the coattails of the rest of the world.
Read this link below, 300 years of no achievement - we had our dark ages, centuries ago. Islam has declined into theirs again, now.

http://www.khilafah.com/why-has-the-muslim-world-made-no-contribution-to-science-and-technology/

I make my heart harden, when faced with someone who is a Muslim, who emigrates or seeks asylum to the West, who does not support terrorism or Islamic fundamentalism. They may mean no harm to me, or my country. They're probably a wonderful human being for all I know. But by continuing to prop up the 3tier problem that is Islam, by fleeing from it - but insisting on the 'right' to drag it with them to here. To expect adaptation and to expect their new host country to change or to modify to accommodate them? Not good enough.

There's probably 100 'good people' who are Muslims for every 5 'bad people' who are Muslims. But those 100, seek to continue, to prop up, to protect, to support and to cherish that 3tier problem that needs major groundbreaking reform in order to not only stop the 5 bad guys, but to also make life better for those 100, so that they don't have to flee, or walk away from their Islamic home nation. There's a good reason why Islam and poverty go hand in hand. Islam and a lack of education. Islam and poor medical facilities. Islam and a general bad standard of living. Islam and terrible gender equality.

They need to admit that their 'perfect, unalterable, word of God' (which is the Qur'an) is not, perfect. Its not unalterable. They need to change it. For themselves. They need to remove the political ideology from its twisted tumourous location within the religion and culture. They need to admit that its ok ti walk away from Islam. That if someone makes a crack or joke about Allah or Mohammed, or burns a copy of the Qur'an etc - that it should result in pity for the individual doing it. Not braying for their death.

Again. If they don't want to change - that's cool with me. I won't force change on anyone who doesn't want it. But I want a compromise as a species. So if Islam, if its adherents will choose to retain their faith, culture and political state - knock their socks off. But not on our shores. Not here. And cut out the sheer laziness of the mindset of 'inshallah'. Their predestination ideas make them so famously phlegmatic, that they contribute buggar all whilst stretching out their hands to benefit from others. If Allah wants it that way, if Allah wills it that way - fine. Get used to living in the dark ages without modern science and invention. Its hypocrisy at its most extreme. Hatred for the West and anyone else different to them - especially the Jews - but they're lining up like starving kids with their hands out, to snatch the advantages. They need, effectively, to learn to mature and evolve as a section of humanity. Or. Stay away and do what you want on your own terms, in your own nations and stop running to the West because it's rashers to snatch those goodies, then admit you created the whole fucking mess to begin with and don't want to be held to account for fixing it.

OK. I tried to be short and still went long. There's no hope for me lol. :)
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@sarahdownunder,

"Look at your average Christian who follows a traditional form of Christianity. They're all about the do no evil, no preach to convert, come to God in your own time."

Holy moley, not in the U.S. Besides the wingnut Moonies and random Scientologist, I have to deal with Mormons, Baptists, and Jehovah's Witnesses at my door.

I'm talking traditional ha ha. Catholic, Church of England/Anglican. Not the crazies like Scientology lol, or the more erm, unusual offshoots like JW's, Mormons etc.

Baptists can be hardcore. Crazy hardcore. But they're not traditionalist Christians. They've been around for awhile, sure. But theyre an offshoot. Like the Pentecostals.

Go ask a boring old Catholic or Anglican how they feel about you not believing what they believe. They'll smile, shrug, secretly think you're off to Hell but they'll leave you to it and not ill wish you, harp at you or go batshit insane.
 
I'm pro-Palestinian. I will now quietly back away.


Me too...I don't support Israel.
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Go ask a boring old Catholic

How can you call a Catholic boring, our mass is an interactive experience.

All of the books..the bible, the quran, joe's book of Mormon. All of the wisdom in the pages

is pretty much the same shit your mom told you all of your life...don't play in traffic, don't run

with scissors..there is nothing in those pages that are harmful too you.

So what ISIS is brokering in women who are looking for husbands.

Its like tinder but different...these women get sustainable relationships and the girls on

tinder get sTI's and broken hearts.

Women in the middle east want this...They do not embrace single life,

they don't want to go to the club to find a man, they don't want one night stands

giving out their phone numbers to men who may or may not call.

These women will never be the I was at work (backpages) while my loser boyfriend with

no job was at home murdering my kids story. Because America.

They will live modestly and in comfort, and some of you want to damn them for it.

Go ahead Americans and try to liberate these women, they will fight you to their

death to stay right where they are in this (as supposed by america) Bondage.
 
Go ask a boring old Catholic or Anglican how they feel about you not believing what they believe. They'll smile, shrug, secretly think you're off to Hell but they'll leave you to it and not ill wish you, harp at you or go batshit insane.

Surely you understand that this is not an inherent quality of Christianity, but rather the simple fact that these people are practicing their religion in a stable, economically prosperous and educated region.

African Christians are a fine example. Bombing and beheading and carrying on like seasoned terrorists, as horrific as anything ISIS has to offer.

Poverty creates thugs and villains, period. And religion - of ANY brand - is a most convenient tool for feeding the flames of violence. Or, perhaps you haven't heard of the radicalized Buddhists who are responsible for the death of hundreds of religious minorities in Asia?

Even if this superstition could be wiped out, something will simply take its place as long as desperation, poverty and a lack of education remains. Just look at our urban gangs. They're not driven by religion. But they murder and sell women just the same, because, broke and uneducated.

So, what should be done about the Middle East (and Africa, and South America)? We need to quit destabilizing these regions, for starters. That's a tall order, though, because if we don't, our competition will, and perpetually protecting these regions from Russian and Chinese meddling is costly and maybe impossible anyway.

This is a mess our governments actively perpetuate. And, so long as our constant grab for resources leaves giant parts of the planet destitute, giant parts of the planet will generate terrorists.
 
The slaves aren't Muslim. They're the captured women of a different belief, the ones that withdrew to a mountain.
 
I read all of this and is hard to believe that people think Christians or Americans are some how better. Every religion and country has rapists, murderers, sex traffickers, child killers, all under the umbrella of getting their message across, because they are more enlightened than 'you'. The Crusades, Christopher Columbus are two glaring examples of Christianity / Catholicism gone wrong. The treatment of native peoples by European colonists / settlers and their descendants for centuries.

It's really no different than what other religious extremists have always done.
 
Every religion and country has rapists, murderers, sex traffickers, child killers,

Well America is winning it in the numbers game...the most serial killers, the most child molesters,

the most rapists. The most gambling, drug and alcohol addictions, the most problems with obesity

the most people of Walmart and so on....the most wars. The most pregnant and abandoned

teens....The most garbage and bull shit. The most day cares...America is a sewer...they have no

business at all telling other countries what's right...what's wrong.

America should get busy fixing their own MESS>
 
@sarahdownunder see this is why I like you!! Intelligent, measured,and civil response. You bring up some excellent points and I thank you for helping me to better understand the opposing argument. Before I sign off on this discussion to keep from derailing the thread (and agree to disagree), I want to make a final few points. First, I really don't feel that this is an issue of Muslims vs Jews; certainly there has been much more news on Daesh attacking Christians. In fact, it seems like they only recently "declared war" on the Jews http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/isis-finally-comes-after-_b_8885134.html This is more of a side note, but being supportive of Jews does not equate to being in support of the State of Israel. You didn't make this claim, of course, but I find a lot of people assume that all Jews support Israel; myself and a few of my Jewish friends that studied Middle Eastern politics are not pro-Israel. Daesh aside, my understanding that much of the tension between Jews and Muslims is derived from the formation of the Israeli state, which is more of a political clash rather than a religious one.

My point about the scientific contribution of Muslims is that the majority of the scientific advances of the West that they are trying to "ride the coattails" of would not have been possible without their contribution in the first place. The article that you posted was a super interesting read (thank you for that, also) and explains the more recent stagnation. It does, in fact, place a lot of blame on the West. Colonization had a severe negative impact on MENA, and it is our fault that these economies crashed hard. In my opinion, economy, and not religion, are why:
Islam and poverty go hand in hand. Islam and a lack of education. Islam and poor medical facilities. Islam and a general bad standard of living. Islam and terrible gender equality.
All of these things are tied inextricably with socioeconomics (as @Athena also mentioned), and it's important to remember that correlation does not equal causation. The fact that there is violence in a particular region does not generally reflect faults in the race or religion of that region. This is similar to what I see in the US; ignorant people have tried claiming that there is something inherently violent about Blacks because Black neighborhoods are perceived to have more crime. Of course this isn't true, this is a fallacy that confuses correlation for causation. It is the socioeconomic status of people (of any race or creed) that is the greatest predictor of crime. Just like the West fucked up MENA, the US made sure to fuck (and re-fuck) the Black population in our country, and in both cases poverty is a result. The immigration we see today isn't Muslims fleeing the ways of Islam, it's Muslims fleeing violence—violence that is not inherent to their belief system but rather inherent to destabilized governments and poverty-stricken populations.

Anyway, I think that's about it from my end. :)
 
Baptists knock on doors now? Good for them. Even through they all drive me nuts, popping up unannounced, forcing me to put on pants...I respect that they're doing what they believe to be accurate according to the Bible.
Oh, you may have taken me slightly wrong. I respect their beliefs and sincerity as well, that's why I so resent the intrusion. I don't enjoy having to blow off people who intend a kindness. I finally put a reference to the book of Matthew on my door. The verse says "Be not as those who pray upon the street corners..." and later exhorts you to pray in a closet. All in all, it's a condemnation of making a public display of your beliefs.
 
Now, lest anyone assume I'm antisemitic (lol, Palestinians are Semites too) I need to define my position as anti-Zionist. All the Jews in Israel could move to America, fine by me. But I think the entire long term purpose behind supporting Israel is to keep the region destabilized.

Imagine there was "Right of Return" to England, and the UK subsequently used that to annex all of Europe. There's the whole problem. Plus, we're upholding the territorial claims on returning generations that left in the diaspora during Imperial Rome! So I and @sarahdownunder, should be packing our bags for the Old Country, so our aboriginal peoples can regain their promised land. After all, the aboriginal people's claims are a lot more recent.
 
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Me too...I don't support Israel.
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How can you call a Catholic boring, our mass is an interactive experience.

All of the books..the bible, the quran, joe's book of Mormon. All of the wisdom in the pages

is pretty much the same shit your mom told you all of your life...don't play in traffic, don't run

with scissors..there is nothing in those pages that are harmful too you.

So what ISIS is brokering in women who are looking for husbands.

Its like tinder but different...these women get sustainable relationships and the girls on

tinder get sTI's and broken hearts.

Women in the middle east want this...They do not embrace single life,

they don't want to go to the club to find a man, they don't want one night stands

giving out their phone numbers to men who may or may not call.

These women will never be the I was at work (backpages) while my loser boyfriend with

no job was at home murdering my kids story. Because America.

They will live modestly and in comfort, and some of you want to damn them for it.

Go ahead Americans and try to liberate these women, they will fight you to their

death to stay right where they are in this (as supposed by america) Bondage.

When I said 'boring old Catholic or Church of England/Anglican, I simply meant they follow the good old traditional forms of Christianity that has been around since roughly, the Reformation. I say 'boring', not because they're literally boring, but because they're the old school path. It was more of a dig towards any of the newer offshoots that have sprung up since the establishment of the Church of England, back at Reformation.
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@sarahdownunder see this is why I like you!! Intelligent, measured,and civil response. You bring up some excellent points and I thank you for helping me to better understand the opposing argument. Before I sign off on this discussion to keep from derailing the thread (and agree to disagree), I want to make a final few points. First, I really don't feel that this is an issue of Muslims vs Jews; certainly there has been much more news on Daesh attacking Christians. In fact, it seems like they only recently "declared war" on the Jews http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-shmuley-boteach/isis-finally-comes-after-_b_8885134.html This is more of a side note, but being supportive of Jews does not equate to being in support of the State of Israel. You didn't make this claim, of course, but I find a lot of people assume that all Jews support Israel; myself and a few of my Jewish friends that studied Middle Eastern politics are not pro-Israel. Daesh aside, my understanding that much of the tension between Jews and Muslims is derived from the formation of the Israeli state, which is more of a political clash rather than a religious one.

My point about the scientific contribution of Muslims is that the majority of the scientific advances of the West that they are trying to "ride the coattails" of would not have been possible without their contribution in the first place. The article that you posted was a super interesting read (thank you for that, also) and explains the more recent stagnation. It does, in fact, place a lot of blame on the West. Colonization had a severe negative impact on MENA, and it is our fault that these economies crashed hard. In my opinion, economy, and not religion, are why:

All of these things are tied inextricably with socioeconomics (as @Athena also mentioned), and it's important to remember that correlation does not equal causation. The fact that there is violence in a particular region does not generally reflect faults in the race or religion of that region. This is similar to what I see in the US; ignorant people have tried claiming that there is something inherently violent about Blacks because Black neighborhoods are perceived to have more crime. Of course this isn't true, this is a fallacy that confuses correlation for causation. It is the socioeconomic status of people (of any race or creed) that is the greatest predictor of crime. Just like the West fucked up MENA, the US made sure to fuck (and re-fuck) the Black population in our country, and in both cases poverty is a result. The immigration we see today isn't Muslims fleeing the ways of Islam, it's Muslims fleeing violence—violence that is not inherent to their belief system but rather inherent to destabilized governments and poverty-stricken populations.

Anyway, I think that's about it from my end. :)


I like you too! I'll agree to disagree although I like some of your points and certainly respect your views. And yeah, I don't want to derail any further on my part as well. :)

One things for sure. Its a highly contentious topic that is complex, multifaceted and tends to draw widely diverse views across society and widely diverse ideas on how to improve the situation. At least we live in country's where we have the right and freedom to have these views and speak openly about them. That's something, in my book, that is to be treasured.

All the best!
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Now, lest anyone assume I'm antisemitic (lol, Palestinians are Semites too) I need to define my position as anti-Zionist. All the Jews in Israel could move to America, fine by me. But I think the entire long term purpose behind supporting Israel is to keep the region destabilized.

Imagine there was "Right of Return" to England, and the UK subsequently used that to annex all of Europe. There's the whole problem. Plus, we're upholding the territorial claims on returning generations that left in the diaspora during Imperial Rome! So I and @sarahdownunder, should be packing our bags for the Old Country, so our aboriginal peoples can regain their promised land. After all, the aboriginal people's claims are a lot more recent.

Hey, I'm not going to roar just because we have different views on this topic lol. Although Israel/Palestine tends to get all kinds of people, VERY passionate.

You're right. If I had to return to my nation of heritage, well, I'm kind of fucked, just because I date back to Pom and Welsh on one side, and a mix of European on the other. Not sure exactly, where I'd end up, but it'd be Western Europe!

Although the Australian Aborigines have been here far longer than us settlers, they too, wandered over when we had the land bridge. So maybe we should boot them back out too, technically, but that'd leave one empty nation ;).

I appreciate the State of Israel is what is upsetting for so many, and I empathize with that. But at what point do we stop going back? The Crusades? That was all over Jerusalem and the area. Before then in the Age of Empires? I ultimately, feel really fucking sorry for a race of people who have been mistreated, discriminated against, suffered horrendous treatment and violence - and still to this day, cop so much antisemitism - all because of bloody stories written by a bunch of men from a totally different era. They can have Israel in my book. History - the human race full stop, hasn't been respectful or kind to them.
 
Why is it, that we're so damn afraid to actually DO something about Islam, about Wahhabism and about Isis?

Here we have solid gold proof of women being sold as fucking sex slaves by these filthy pigs - yet Facebook allows the 'ads'. They'll take down a picture of a woman breastfeeding her child, or a man sitting in the shower with his sick baby in his lap. They'll censor photos of women's breasts as though its somehow shameful or perverse for a woman to show her breasts, but they are OK with advertising the sexual slavery of kidnapped women in this part of the world?

We know full well they're using Facebook and Twitter to communicate, to plot and plan. 9 days ago these ad's went up. The article says they were 'quickly' taken down. Not quickly enough, if 9 days later we can see a news article notifying that this took place. Where is Facebook and that idiot running the show over there, coming out loud and clear, scrying this sickening shit?

We hear Muslims from all around the world, whether they openly support Isis or not, braying hatred for the Jews. Screaming for the eradication of Israel and every Jew living there.

We sit back and let them deny women education, civil rights, basic freedoms. The insistence on wrapping women in bedsheets to hide their bodies and faces.

We see women and girls slaughtered so as to 'protect' the 'honour' of their families. Rape victims vilified and often killed, women stoned for being 'caught' communicating with men they are not related to, married to, or owned by.

We sit back and tsk tsk, but allow the genital mutilation of little girls to occur, where their clitorises are SCRAPED from their little bodies with a rock and their vulva's sewn closed, leaving tiny openings designed to be torn open brutally by their husbands upon marriage - assuming they don't die from shock, blood loss or infection as a result of the torture visited upon them.

They will never experience sexual pleasure after this. They often have genuine lifelong problems with menstruating, with urinating and defecating. With enduring their husband's desires for sexual penetration and with childbirth. And of course, those poor women who do have these troubles as a direct result of FGM? Are shunned. Discriminated against. Ostracized. Left to suffer in pain, in misery, in discomfort and fear. (Look up the women in Somalia who are homeless, beaten, robbed, raped and tormented, because they can't 'keep themselves clean' due to bladder and bowel incontinence from FGM.)

We sit back and watch their nation's slowly implode with civil unrest and violence, poverty, lack of opportunities and sheer human misery - then open our doors for when they flood to our modern democracies for aid and seek asylum.

Yet we allow them to bring all the ideas and beliefs with them. And we let them continue to practice this lifestyle, culture and religion when they're amongst us, eventually building up enough adherents both with immigration and large birthed families, so that they then can turn around and start demanding change in order to suit them.

We seem so scared to stand up and say 'we do not follow this methodology or way of life. It is simply incompatible with our way.' If you do try to say this openly, you are decried and shunned, as a bigot, or a racist or an Islamaphobe.

We seem to want to turn a blind eye to the misery these beliefs and this political ideology cause, millions of Muslims, living in misery, in squalor, in fear, in ignorance. Until they arrive on our shores, demanding their human rights, our welfare, our housing, our jobs, our rights and benefits - all the whilst, insisting on carrying the Islamic monkey on their back. 'Inshallah, they say. As God Wills It'. They are famously phlegmatic, until they feel their Prophet or their faith or their culture, or their political state is being disrespected, or shamed. They miraculously come to life then. Murdering film makers, putting out death threats, demanding that certain 'infidels' deserve to die for not kowtowing to their beliefs and faith. They blame the Jews for every conceivable and inconceivable problem in their lives and believe that the eradication of the Jewish race and the Jewish state will magically fix everything. Because 'inshallah.'

And all of this I have mentioned, with the exception of the advertising of sex slaves, are actions, behaviours and choices committed by and made by, normal, 'non-terrorism' Muslims and 'normal' Islamic nations. By these supposed Moderates.

Why are we so afraid to just say 'no'. And 'we do not accept this'? Why do we keep pumping foreign aid into these nation's, and then continually accepting tides of migrants and refugee seekers from the same nations?

Why do we continue to share our scientific, medical and cultural advances, discoveries and breakthroughs with them? They certainly grasp onto the benefits that we have. No matter how poor, how ignorant, how downtrodden, no matter how unsafe they may be in their home country of origin, they have smartphones and internet access. They have electricity and running water. They have hospitals filled with professionals trained in Western medicine. Tools and equipment invented to save lives.

They have household appliances, air conditioning, cars, trucks, planes etc etc. They certainly grasp the inventions of the rest of the world with both hands, whilst demanding the right to live their way - until they want to come to our nation's and have even better access to even better things. All whilst insisting on the right to drag that monkey on their back with them - and being violently opposed to any reason, debate or difference in opinion over their beliefs and faith.

All of us, all Western nations, have had some of our Muslim citizens bolt off to Syria to join Isis. And these are the kids of the initial migrants and asylum seekers. They are keeping their Islamic life, faith, culture and beliefs alive and well at home, in their mosques and schools. In the isolated communities we allowed them to enclave to. And they are raising a new generation of men and women who are obscenely fundamental. Who grew up amongst us, with every opportunity at their fingertips - their families and communities made damn sure though, that they stayed 'true'. And its these young idiots who flounce off to fight and die, to marry and die, in that Isis hellhole utopia they think so highly of.

But we don't sit back and ask ourselves what we did wrong. Where we went wrong as societies to have this breed amongst us, under our noses. We're too afraid of being decried a bigot, a racist or an Islamaphobe.

With our own respective nation's - we sit here and go 'oh wow, that's sick' when we see an article that says 'Isis selling sex slaves on Facebook'. And then we ultimately push it to the back of our minds and stay away from such an inflammatory topic.

We invaded Afghanistan, we invaded Libya, we got involved in the so-called Arab Spring in Morocco, Tunisia and Egypt, we tried to incite it in other ME nations. We invaded Iraq twice on questionable moral and ethical standpoints, we stand back whike Syria and Iraq burn - and whike Yemen is being shredded in a proxy war between Saudi Arabia and Iran. Or more accurately, between fucking Sunni and fucking Shiite Muslims.

Yet we sit back now, when it really is time to fix this nightmare for once and for all, and we just don't do anything. We don't draw a line in the sand with Saudi Arabia. Or Iran for that matter. We pump billions yearly into Africa and the ME in aid and share everything with them, but still take in huge numbers of their citizens.

Enough is enough. It is beyond time that we addressed the big ass elephant in the room and admitted that Islam is a gigantic problem and that not only are Muslims paying the consequences of this ideology, faith and political state - but so are all of us.

We give this section of humanity and this ideology far more power, on a multitude of levels, than it honestly deserves.

Sorry for the mega rant.

Love you for saying this!
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I was accosted on my way home from a weekend of drinking and loud music by a couple of Christians offering to pray for me, if I felt the need. I told them it was a kind thought, but that I was not hurting .....

Doubt that would have been as easy for an agnostic in the Middle East.
Sadly you wouldn't have a head anymore :(:nailbiting:
 
I think lith really, really wished she was one of these girls.

I don't and I'm not, but if I was one...I would appreciate it.

I don't see any problems with servitude, to a house, children or a man.

I would make a great slave....yes I would.
 
I don't and I'm not, but if I was one...I would appreciate it.

I don't see any problems with servitude, to a house, children or a man.

I would make a great slave....yes I would.

Damn when I saw you quoted me I thought we were gonna discuss brands of glasses. My sunglasses are Ralph Lauren.
 
Damn when I saw you quoted me I thought we were gonna discuss brands of glasses. My sunglasses are Ralph Lauren.

Come on...we were talking about slavery, and if i would or wouldn't like it.

I would make the best of it...Like if some dude busted into my house and kidnapped me, I would

beg to to take all my gum which is lots...and my five pairs of dollar store glasses (all the same)

I would go and be nice to the man.
 
In two sentences or less (if that's possible), what do you think should be done with all Muslims? Killed?
Islam is not a blood-lust religion on it's own. The Qur'an, a book that gives legal, ethical and moral authority to murder in the name of Allah is the instigator of sub-human treatment.
African Christians are a fine example. Bombing and beheading and carrying on like seasoned terrorists, as horrific as anything ISIS has to offer.
Athena, your passion for left-wing ideology is respected. As a moral conservative, your opinion is coveted. Yet to include Christians from an area where indoor pluming is as high as the education level, well... Your example is beneath you, respectfully. :)
 
Well America is winning it in the numbers game...the most serial killers, the most child molesters,

the most rapists. The most gambling, drug and alcohol addictions, the most problems with obesity

the most people of Walmart and so on....the most wars. The most pregnant and abandoned

teens....The most garbage and bull shit. The most day cares...America is a sewer...they have no

business at all telling other countries what's right...what's wrong.

America should get busy fixing their own MESS>
Its funny that we have such a huge illegal immigration problem then!! God Bless USA!
 
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