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Mata Hari

Dirty Gutter Bitch
Hi Guys! I figure since it's getting to be that time of year when we repeatedly hear about hot car deaths, and each of those threads devolve into an argument as to whether it was truly accidental or not, let's have our own thread for it.

I for one empathize with stories like the ones below. Although, the second dad did it intentionally, I do not think he meant for his child to die.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/28/AR2007072800646_pf.html

Deaths, 2 Outcomes in Heated Car Cases

By ALLEN G. BREED and MARTHA MENDOZA
The Associated Press
Saturday, July 28, 2007; 1:53 PM
-- Two hot cars. Two dead infants. Two grieving fathers.

Two very different outcomes.

College professor Mark Warschauer says he simply forgot his 10-month-old son Mikey was in the car. Horse groom Antonio Balta claims he didn't know the car would get hot enough to harm his 9-month-old daughter, Veronika.

Neither man meant to harm his child. But that doesn't always matter in the eyes of the law.

___

A baby lay lifeless on a stretcher, a car window shattered nearby, paramedics swarming.

How sad, Mark Warschauer thought. Then he realized it was his car.

It was Mikey.

If there was ever a miracle baby, Michael Kai Warschauer was it.

For five years, Warschauer and his wife, Keiko Hirata, struggled with infertility. They had undergone in-vitro fertilization, only to see more than a dozen embryos fail.

Mikey's was the last survivor of 14, and the grateful parents reveled in their dark-haired boy, filling page after page with photos of them cuddling, playing and laughing together. Appreciating what a precious gift they'd received, the couple studied parenting books and even brought in a child-safety expert to inspect their home.

"Mikey was the most loved and adored baby on earth," says Warschauer.

Like many, the Warschauers were a two-career family. Mark Warschauer is a professor at the University of California, Irvine, a leading expert in the field of technology and learning. Hirata is an award-winning political-science professor specializing on Japan and East Asia.

The morning of Aug. 8, 2003, Mark Warschauer was tired and stressed out. His wife was trying to wean Mikey, and he'd gotten up at 3 a.m. trying to get the bright-eyed 10-month-old back to sleep.

When he drove to work that morning, he was "on automatic." Mikey had fallen asleep in the back, dozing quietly in his rear-facing car seat.

Instead of going to day care, Warschauer went straight to campus, parked his car and went up to the office. His "life of grief" began three hours later.

"At your greatest moment of need, I failed you horrifically," Warschauer said in a eulogy for his son. "Worst of all, I have no explanation for what I have done. I cannot understand how I, who loved you more than the air I breathed, who would have gladly given my own life for you, could have done such a thing."

Authorities ruled Mikey's death an accident and decided not to prosecute. But Warschauer cannot let himself off quite so easily.

"I take full responsibility for Mikey's death," he said during a recent interview at a coffee shop across from campus.

Warschauer has said these words to groups, written them on a Web site dedicated to his son, recorded them in public service announcements. It is a story he is loath to share, but feels obligated to do so. He wants to spare other parents the grief he has experienced.

Since Mikey's death, the Warschauers have had three more children, including twins. Warschauer knows Mikey's death was a tragic fluke, but he knows he can never fully trust himself again.

Inside each of the two family cars is a leather briefcase strap. When Warschauer buckles a child in, he clips the strap to his belt loop, so he can't leave the car without being reminded that he's not alone.

"It's my cue," he said.

___

Nine-month-old Veronika Balta grew up around the ponies.

Her father, Antonio, was a thoroughbred horse groomer who followed the racing circuit from New York to Kentucky to Florida. Her mother, Michelle Bashford, waited tables at the various track clubhouses.

The couple couldn't afford day care, so Balta would park Veronika's stroller in the stables while he worked on the horses. Balta would talk to his little "mami" _ short for mami chula, Spanish for "pretty mommy" _ while he washed and brushed the horses.

"I had to be at work at 4 in the morning to 11 or 12 in the afternoon," the 30-year-old Peruvian native says in soft-spoken, heavily accented English. "Basically it was me and her relationship, because the mother used to work all day, 9 in the morning to 7. So I got her by myself all these hours."

On March 14, 2004, the couple were packing up to return to upstate New York. Bashford was finishing up her last shift at Gulfstream Park north of Miami; Balta decided to try and pick up a little more spending money at the betting windows.

Veronika cried around large crowds, so Balta says he left her in the car. He cracked the windows just a hair, he says, because he was afraid someone might take her.

The first two times Balta left the air-conditioned betting parlor to check on Veronika, she was playing happily with a stuffed toy that he'd won for her in a Kentucky claw machine _ a rabbit dressed in a striped prison uniform. But then he got caught up in the races, and before he knew it, about 45 minutes had gone by.

When he found Veronika, she was limp, her eyes rolled back into her head.

"I tried to wake her up but when I carry her like this," he says, gesturing as if holding a baby over his right shoulder, "... milk came out of her mouth."

The temperature was mild when Balta got to the track that day. He says he had no idea the car could heat up that quickly.

At trial, a psychologist testified that Balta's IQ was just 74. Balta's defense attorney called him "borderline retarded."

Balta pleaded guilty to aggravated manslaughter and threw himself on the mercy of the court. Circuit Judge Ilona Holmes had none.

She declared Balta's actions "totally callous" and sentenced him to 20 years. When he gets out, he will be deported.

Sitting at a break room table in the maximum-security Desoto Annex prison in Arcadia, Fla., Balta fingers through photos of the little girl who shortly before her death had spoken her first word _ Daddy.

"It's like I lost my soul," he says, almost in a whisper. "When I lost her, it's like a big chunk of my heart came out."

Balta agrees that he deserves to be punished. But he wonders what good it will do to keep him locked up for 20 years.

"This place is not going to bring my daughter back," he says. "I have learned from my mistakes already. ... I'm not the same person. I never been a bad guy, never. I did a mistake."
 
This is so touchy. I just feel my child is so very important and that i would never want anything to happen to him. I would always know my son was with me. As his mother, i can literally feel his presence. All these car deaths made me afraid to let him go to daycare field trips. What if they left him in the daycare van because he was sleeping? Forgetting or not, it's murder. You still killed your child because your brain was on so called "auto".
 
Good thread, Mata.

Some excerpts from that Parents.com article I keep sharing (because it's quite long and I doubt many have read all of it):

For parents whose children die, there is crushing grief and guilt. Sometimes, there are also serious legal repercussions. In 49 percent of all hot-car deaths, charges were filed against the adults who left the child in the car; 81 percent of those cases resulted in a conviction.

There is also, unfailingly, judgment and blame from the media, friends, neighbors, and perfect strangers. When Parents published a short article on this topic online last August, many mothers posted outraged comments, such as these: "Irresponsible people trying to make excuses!" "People who do forget [their kids] should get their priorities straight." "Ummm, here is the deal. DON'T FORGET YOUR KID IN THE FREAKING CAR! There is no good excuse for being a bad parent!" And even this: "I am suspicious that these parents might have committed this crime as an easy way to lose unwanted children."

Beneath this harsh judgment is a desire for self-protection, explains Janet Brown Lobel, Ph.D., a clinical psychologist in New York City and Pleasantville, New York. "The idea of forgetting a child in a car is such a horrifying prospect for parents that the only way they can deal with it is to make themselves feel as different as possible from the parent who did this," she says. "That parent becomes a neglectful parent with whom you have nothing in common. Therefore, you don't have to think about this tragedy because it could never happen to you."

Janette Fennell, founder and president of KidsAndCars.org, a national nonprofit focused on keeping children safe in and around vehicles, agrees: "People try to demonize these parents. The logic goes: 'These people are monsters. I'm not a monster, so it won't happen to me,' and that is the biggest mistake anyone can make."

Nicolle Holmes-Gulick, a 33-year-old mother in Shoreline, Washington, was just as safety-conscious: "the kind of parent people relax around because I'm the one watching their kids like a hawk," as she puts it. But one afternoon in August 2013, her house was more chaotic than usual. Her mother was there and her sister, with her two young children, had just arrived from out of town for a visit. Holmes-Gulick had to get her 13-year-old daughter to her first cheerleading practice of the season, and the clock was ticking. She'd been planning to leave her 21-month-old daughter, Presley, with her mother, but the toddler was fussy, so she wound up taking her too. "Two minutes after we started down the road, Presley fell asleep," Holmes-Gulick recalls. "And when we got there my oldest said, 'You have to come with me. It's my first day.'"

So she got out of the car and walked to the park with her older daughter. "I talked to the coach and the other mothers," she recalls. "Then one of my girlfriends asked me, 'Where's Presley?'" Horrified, Holmes-Gulick shouted, "Oh my God, I forgot my baby!" She ran to the car to find Presley sweaty and screaming. The little girl was fine -- but Holmes-Gulick wasn't. "I cried about 20 times that day," she says. Presley was in the car for eight minutes on an 85°F day, and Holmes-Gulick knows what could have happened if her friend hadn't said something. Being as cautious as she was, she never dreamed that could happen to her.

She's also amazed by how many other parents have told her they've done something similar. "When I talk with my friends about it, everybody opens up," she says. "People are insecure about their parenting and they aren't going to say 'I did that' until someone else does. This happens to a lot more people than we think."

For every time this happens and becomes a story, it happens 100 times and doesn't, because circumstance favors us in that moment. It wasn't hot out. It wasn't cold out. We had a friend to ask us where the child was. We had a quiet moment upon arriving that allowed us to feel like we had forgotten something, a moment we wouldn't have been afforded if we had been tossed into the chaos of work or company.

I believe, if we all had complete memory of even our mundane moments, we could all pick out at least one instance that could have gone wrong with our children, but didn't, because luck was on our side. We need to respect the role luck has played in our lives.

Also from the article:

1. Be extra alert if your routine changes. That's when the risk of unintentionally leaving your child in your car increases.

2. Put something of your child's, like a toy, on the front seat.

3. Leave an item you'll need at your next destination in the backseat -- like your cell phone, purse, or briefcase.

4. Place your child's car sear in the middle of the backseat rather than behind the driver. It's easier to see the kid.

5. It's crucial to set up a system with your child-care provider, as the parents in this story can attest. If you don't plan to drop off your child that day, call her. If the child doesn't arrive as expected, have the caregiver call you.

6. Discuss the topic of hot-car deaths with every person who drives your child anywhere. This includes partners, grandparents, and babysitters.

7. Always "Look Before You Lock." Get in the habit of checking the backseat every time you get out of the car.

No matter how unthinkable this feels, none of us are immune.
 
'These people are monsters. I'm not a monster, so it won't happen to me,' and that is the biggest mistake anyone can make."


This is what gets me, and I do believe it to be 100% true. Parents want to demonize these parents because just like we all know we'd never beat our kids to death, we want to believe we would never forget them in a car. Having that kind of attitude is exactly what leads to parents forgetting their children!
 
That's the thing. These are headed in the same direction as the baby law where you are left in a state of puzzlement when numerous women still didn't get the memo or ignored it or their dog ate it. There are now well publicized techniques that will help remind you of your child in the car and, yet, people are still leaving them in there! At what point do the excuses run out and one's forgetfulness becomes criminal?
 
There are now well publicized techniques that will help remind you of your child in the car and, yet, people are still leaving them in there!

I think this is because parents do not seek out the info on something they don't believe can ever happen to them.
 
Care and control of your vehicle means everything in it too. If there are drugs, gun, explosives,

or dead hookers in the trunk you are responsible...same as dead babies...if there is one in your car

you are responsible. This is not forgetfulness....its deliberate.

It reminds me of Susan Smith...Except these parents are not bothering to

submerge their vehicles, make up a story. They do it right out in the open and

Then simply say I forgot, AND its a LIE.
 
I wonder if this happens more to males than it does to females. When we had Thing #1, my hubby almost left him in the car one afternoon. He told me this years later after we had Thing #2 & 3 and I almost lost my shit.
 
I wonder if this happens more to males than it does to females. When we had Thing #1, my hubby almost left him in the car one afternoon. He told me this years later after we had Thing #2 & 3 and I almost lost my shit.

Practically guaranteed, although I don't have numbers handy. The moms on this site like to talk about how, "We're parents! We're used to having our children attached at our hips! How could they forget?!"

That's going to apply to women, who are dramatically more likely to be SAH parents or at least the primary caregiver, much more than men. And, if you're the primary caregiver, you're used to driving around with your kid. These accidents occur almost exclusively with the parent who's not used to that and is acting outside of their normal routine.

I identify because I'm that parent. I get up at 4:00am, am out the door by 5am, am to work by 6am after a 45 mile drive, work a 9 or 10 hour day, and am back home some time between 4:30pm - 6. I pretty much never have my child in the car during the work week, ever, at any time of day.

I am not so arrogant as to believe I am immune, considering the conditions are perfect for this sort of thing to happen if my routine is switched up. I've left the house knowing I have to go to HQ in Redmond, but wind up in North Bend like usual, and don't realize I've fucked up until the meeting reminder pop up in Outlook. No meeting reminder is going to pop up and tell me to check my car for my kid, so...

I could be this parent. And it's not because I'm any dumber, or less loving, or less thoughtful than anyone else. It's because the human brain works how it works, and my conditioning is ripe.
 
I do think it happens, people forget, but I don't think it innocently happens as much as it is claimed.

In the case of Justin Harris, it's pretty apparent what he did, he was clumsy at covering his tracks and left so much evidence.

But in the case of someone who doesn't plan it just does it one day when they are feeling stressed. They say they forgot and acts very remorseful, but in their heart of hearts they know they did it on purpose, how are you gonna stop them if everyone is so ready to believe that most every time with no evidence to the contrary, it's an accident?
 
I personally believe that there are those who deserve children and those who do not. If you don't have the common sense to take your child out of a car on a hot day then you don't deserve t have a child. To me, it is murder no matter how you look at it. Any parent who neglects their child to the point where they die has no place in this world. Even if it is an accident, it is still because the parent was neglectful and should pay the consequences for being the reason for their kids death.
 
since it's getting to be that time of year when we repeatedly hear about hot car deaths

Why is it this time of year? During the winter I heard of one guy who left his naked daughter in a car with all the windows rolled down. He went to watch a game or some shit (and do some drugs) at a friend's house, went home and had the shits. He was naked from the waist down with shit all over himself when the cops arrived some time in the morning. Are people forgetting their kids are in the car when they go to work in the winter?
 
It's because the human brain works how it works, and my conditioning is ripe.

I think this is bullshit...I honestly think because its not the norm for you that you would be hyper attentive to the live cargo in your car. I'm also assuming the that because it wasn't the norm there would be other things going on...like your partner couldn't do it because of surgery, or jury duty...and the secondary things going on would be acutely on your mind. You wouldn't forget the reason you have to take your child that day...and you wouldn't forget your child was in the car.
 
Parents want to demonize these parents because just like we all know we'd never beat our kids to death, we want to believe we would never forget them in a car. Having that kind of attitude is exactly what leads to parents forgetting their children!

Naw, I believe carelessness is what leads to parents forgetting their children and the forgetting part rarely happens imho. It's not that I want to demonize these parents but they are killing their babies.. it should be a crime every where, every time it happens.
 
Murder. If I am driving someplace without kids I am like.. OH SHIT WHERE IS THE BABY?? I can not say for certain I may not forget my child, asleep in a car seat... But I know for certain even if I somehow left my baby it would not take me hours to figure it out.
 
I do agree that they are more apt to die in the summer, but being left in the winter not altogether safe even here in the south in the far north north, i would think it as dangerous as the summer, but we, I hesitate to say never, hear about deaths in the winter of a kid strapped into a car seat.

In fact you guys with the google-fu might wanna look up those facts. I have no google-fu and I'm one handed at the moment from carpel and cubital tunnel surgery this morning. I'm hoping my whole arm stops falling asleep now.
 
Athena made some good points with that checklist of things you can do, to help remind you. Like putting your purse in the backseat so as to not forget.

I do think some parents genuinely forget. Although I think it speaks volumes to their general attitude of self absorption and day to day management of stress from life.

I think some parents are outright careless and think it'll be OK, they cracked a window, getting the baby and all the gear out - just to run into the post office for 10 mins is too much hassle.

And I think a tiny portion do it deliberately as a way to kill, thinking they can pass it off as a mistake. A very tiny portion.

Its impossible to lump 'all' parents who do this, in one category. But I think, whether its genuine forgetfulness, or selfish carelessness, or outright planned murder - the cold hard facts remain that a baby is dead.

If I'm driving home late at night, exhausted from work and the car starts drifting due to my exhaustion, if I plough into another car and hurt or kill the occupants, regardless of my fatigue, regardless of the fact that I genuinely didn't mean to hurt anyone, I'm still going to go down for hurting or killing them.

If I choose to type up a text on my phone while driving, thinking its OK, its only a quick text - and I manage to carelessly mow down a pedestrian, even though I never planned to run them over, my carelessness will still land me in court and probably in jail. For carelessly and callously prioritizing that text message over the safety of that pedestrian.

And of course, if I plan to and carry out, the murder of someone, I'm going down for it.

Whether its a case of genuine forgetfulness, simple self-absorbed carelessness or actual murder, in any other circumstance, I'd still go down. And rightly so. Because its the consequences for my actions.

A baby is entirely 100% reliant on its parent for care and survival. I feel some limited empathy for parents who didn't plan to do this - but the simple fact remains, their action led to a reaction of the death of their baby. Therefore, as a sane and competent adult in our societies, they are legally required to suffer the consequences.

Also, the 20yr jail term for the father in the article. He is missing the point. He got 20 years and automatic deportation once he's completed the term, as punishment for his actions. His child is dead. I'm glad he's remorseful and has sincere regret. But that doesn't change the fact that he was too busy placing bets and gambling to take care of his child. He is a bad person - his actions show that loud and clear.
 
Personally, I feel half the stories at least are intentional, the other half craven indifference. How can you forget a living human being in a car and if so what right do you have to any control over one? bottom line. The only thing I have ever forgotten alive in a car was a turtle and then only for a couple of hours
 
This is a tough one. I'd say involuntary manslaughter.

My two littles are 22 months apart. I barely remember anything from the first year of my youngest's life - she didn't sleep more than two hours at a stretch, her brother was a terrible two, I was a goddamn mess. I forgot dinner on the stove, lost all kinds of stuff, left the house with my nursing top unsnapped and my left breast just out. It was BAD. I would love to say, oh, it would never happen to me, but in all honesty it's a goddamn miracle it didn't. I was strictly on auto pilot for a very long time.
[doublepost=1485490084,1485489189][/doublepost]Also, quick, somebody bash me in the fucking face with a chair for referring to my crotchfruit as littles, what the fuck?
 
This is a tough one. I'd say involuntary manslaughter.

My two littles are 22 months apart. I barely remember anything from the first year of my youngest's life - she didn't sleep more than two hours at a stretch, her brother was a terrible two, I was a goddamn mess. I forgot dinner on the stove, lost all kinds of stuff, left the house with my nursing top unsnapped and my left breast just out. It was BAD. I would love to say, oh, it would never happen to me, but in all honesty it's a goddamn miracle it didn't. I was strictly on auto pilot for a very long time.
[doublepost=1485490084,1485489189][/doublepost]Also, quick, somebody bash me in the fucking face with a chair for referring to my crotchfruit as littles, what the fuck?


My baby is 15, taller than I, and I still call her my "little" or my "mini"❤
 
I do feel like most of them are accidental, but not all. But damn, there has to be a punishment for a human being dying a horrible death because of your negligence. Sentences should be manslaughter to murder. The Cooper Harris baby was straight up murder.
 
I was strictly on auto pilot for a very long time.

The first time I was alone with a new baby and a toddler ... my husband came home and asked me ... are you okay ... I said nO ... there is two of them. But after a couple days everything was aces.

@Snoods I agree Justin Ross Harris murdered his son ... but I think this is murder pretty much every time ... i had four kids ... never once forgot they existed ... especially never ever forgot they existed while they were locked in a car with the windows up on a sweltering day. i don't think OUR mothers forgot we existed ... our grandmothers ... same. I think one person did it ... authorities accepted it was an accident ... and a bunch of cowards thought ... Okay ... I'm going to try this too. I also think that Justin Ross Harris will change peoples mind about trying it in the future ... I think we'll see less babies dying this way next summer.
[doublepost=1485832794,1485832622][/doublepost]
How can you forget a living human being in a car and if so what right do you have to any control over one?

Or even your car ... so distracted you forget your baby and leave em to die in a hot car .. but still some how not to0 distracted to drive on the roads with the rest of us ... These people should get a ten year driving ban for being that distracted.
 
@lithiumgirl...yeah...I guess I agree with you. Never forgot mine either. I always used to come down cold, hard, and fast that it was always murder no matter what, until I read an article written by Gene Weingarten.

But I do agree with you, I understand where you're coming from. Don't put me on a jury, heh. Unless you're that doughboy Ross Harris.

Fatal Distraction by Gene Weingarten.
The defendant was an immense man, well over 300 pounds, but in the gravity of his sorrow and shame he seemed larger still. He hunched forward in the sturdy wooden armchair that barely contained him, sobbing softly into tissue after tissue, a leg bouncing nervously under the table. In the first pew of spectators sat his wife, looking stricken, absently twisting her wedding band. The room was a sepulcher. Witnesses spoke softly of events so painful that many lost their composure. When a hospital emergency room nurse described how the defendant had behaved after the police first brought him in, she wept. He was virtually catatonic, she remembered, his eyes shut tight, rocking back and forth, locked away in some unfathomable private torment. He would not speak at all for the longest time, not until the nurse sank down beside him and held his hand. It was only then that the patient began to open up, and what he said was that he didn’t want any sedation, that he didn’t deserve a respite from pain, that he wanted to feel it all, and then to die.

The charge in the courtroom was manslaughter, brought by the Commonwealth of Virginia. No significant facts were in dispute. Miles Harrison, 49, was an amiable person, a diligent businessman and a doting, conscientious father until the day last summer -- beset by problems at work, making call after call on his cellphone -- he forgot to drop his son, Chase, at day care. The toddler slowly sweltered to death, strapped into a car seat for nearly nine hours in an office parking lot in Herndon in the blistering heat of July.

It was an inexplicable, inexcusable mistake, but was it a crime? That was the question for a judge to decide.

At one point, during a recess, Harrison rose unsteadily to his feet, turned to leave the courtroom and saw, as if for the first time, that there were people witnessing his disgrace. The big man’s eyes lowered. He swayed a little until someone steadied him, and then he gasped out in a keening falsetto: “My poor baby!”

A group of middle-schoolers filed into the room for a scheduled class trip to the courthouse. The teacher clearly hadn’t expected this; within a few minutes, the wide-eyed kids were hustled back out.

The trial would last three days. Sitting through it, side by side in the rear of the courtroom, were two women who had traveled hours to get there. Unlike almost everyone else on the spectator benches, they were not relatives or co-workers or close friends of the accused.

“. . . the lower portion of the body was red to red-purple. . .”

As the most excruciating of the evidence came out, from the medical examiner, the women in the back drew closer together, leaning in to each other.

“ . . . a green discoloration of the abdomen . . . autolysis of the organs . . . what we call skin slippage . . . the core body temperature reaches 108 degrees when death ensues.”

Mary -- the older, shorter one -- trembled. Lyn -- the younger, taller one with the long, strawberry-blond hair -- gathered her in, one arm around the shoulder, the other across their bodies, holding hands.

When the trial ended, Lyn Balfour and Mary Parks left quietly, drawing no attention to themselves. They hadn’t wanted to be there, but they’d felt a duty, both to the defendant and, in a much more complicated way, to themselves.

It was unusual, to say the least: three people together in one place, sharing the same heartbreaking history. All three had accidentally killed their babies in the identical, incomprehensible, modern way.


Read the rest here, it's pretty gripping:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/life...2be35962a52_story.html?utm_term=.f8322b7ab88c
 
When you have an obese baby/toddler and you got to make weight for that checkup, just throw them in the car out in the sun for a few hours. If it works for MMA fighters, it will work on a baby- trust me on that one. Most idiots just leave them in there too long...

It's not quite as easy as they get older, but even then it's pretty fucking easy. You just gotta throw them in there with some kind of handheld technonanology shit that kids play with now a days...

Anyway, that's how America is going to fix the obesity problem. It needs to be started from a young age. Now that Trump is President, we can stop focusing on fake things like global warming... and start actually fixing the real problems with society! I mean, we've all seen fat kids! But I haven't ever seen the ozone layer... just saying.

PSA Announcement: Fat kids better run for your lives! And if you get caught? More running! Either way... You're fucked!


I really love chubby people btw!
 
@Snoods ... I read it ...thank you! I still think its bullshit, not a slam to you, just a nod to our moms and grandmothers, or even our Dads, and grandfathers ... this is a new phenomenon, and if they want to call it Fatally Distracted Syndrome ... fine ... they have to call it something don't they.
 
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