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Tom GreerLONG BEACH, CA – A home burglary turned to shit for two people after the 80-year-old homeowner walked in on them and ended up shooting a woman to death.

Tom Greer said he came home Tuesday night to find a man and woman inside his home. Greer said they both tackled him and jumped on top of him before robbing his safe of thousands of dollars.

What the couple didn’t know was that Greer was not defenseless… he had a .22 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver in his pocket. The pair ran from the home when they saw Greer was armed, but the woman wasn’t quick enough.

After firing at her in an alley behind his house, Greer said the woman stumbled and then begged for her life. “She says, ‘Don’t shoot me, I’m pregnant! I’m going to have a baby!’ And I shot her anyway,” Greer said.

When asked what happened next, Greer said he shot the woman a second time. “She was dead. I shot her twice, she best be dead … (The man) had run off and left her,” he said. “I shot her so that’s going to leave a message on his mind for the rest of his life.”

Greer was taken to the hospital to treat a severe shoulder and collarbone injury. Police have not identified the woman, who was found dead at the scene, aside from saying she was in her ’20s.

One of Greer’s neighbors told reporters that the couple may have stolen Greer’s car in another incident and that Greer had been robbed several times before. “Apparently the couple has been doing this neighborhood for quite some time,” he said.

Long Beach Police are still investigating, but at this time no one has been arrested – including Greer. I’m not sure what a jury would do to Greer if he is charged and stands trial, but from what little I read on California’s castle doctrine his actions were not quite covered by the law. According to California Penal Code Section 198.5, homicide is excusable if:

Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred. As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury.

Personally, I have no sympathy for people who are killed while committing home burglaries. But prosecutors may have to charge Greer despite the circumstances. That first shot may have been excusable, even though the woman was running away, but that second shot may cause Greer some serious legal issues – double trouble if it turns out the woman actually was pregnant.

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  • darsa

    At his age, I doubt he gives a rat’s ass if he’s charged for what he did.

  • Texas Ranger

    I’m not a fan of the chasing her down and putting the kill shot in her head, but the “I’m Pregnant” excuse should have been used with the boyfriend to not go on the robbing spree. That’s just my opinion though.

  • Lena60

    I am on the fence with this. If they are in your home and you feel your life is in danger, by all means shoot to kill. She was no longer in his home and no longer a threat. He chased her down.She begged for her life and he killed her anyways.Yeah, I think he will be in trouble for this.

  • Kim Graves

    He does not deserve charges he was probably so upset and scared it got the best of him, she was not worried about the baby she was carrying in the first place if its even true, at 80 he will pass from natural causes before a trial good for him fuck her and her bf or whoever for robbing an old man more than likely more than once

  • Valerie

    I agree. She was fucked up for robbing someone, but he went too far.

  • Lawrencia

    The old man is a murderer. He chased her down a alley and when she fell he shot her twice. That’s not self defense, and in the back? he is a cowardly old man who belongs in hell.

  • Lawrencia

    He didn’t murder out of self defense but out of vengeance.
    She may of been a thief, but he’s a double murderer.

  • NinerPundit

    I just want to know how one can’t outrun an 80 year old man.

  • Lawrencia

    Pregnant and she fell, that’s when he executed her.

  • itsknotme

    “… had a .22 caliber Smith and Wesson revolver in his pocket …”
    Screw the loose change. Yet, another reason why I don’t do 80 year old men’s laundry!!!

  • itsknotme

    And, just think how steady his hand was.

  • Kim Graves

    No he isnt she deserved what the fuck she got sorry thats my opinion on it i hope her thieving ass suffered
    Beverly graves

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    He was wrong for shooting her when she was no longer a threat but she shouldn’t have put herself in that situation especially since she was pregnant. The man that was with her needs held responsible for that as well if he knew or if the baby was his. I would have much preferred to see a little remorse from the guy at least regarding the unborn child.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    On the other hand that is an 80 year old man and they showed no concern for his well being when they attacked him. Fuck lol im stuck on the fence!

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    Good point we had a 93 year old man here murder his wife because he “always wanted to do it” and he was never jailed or taken to court because he was ancient and dying anyway.

  • Sara

    While it is true that she obviously did not care about the child she was carrying–after all, she was the one engaging in a potentially deadly activity–he was not within his rights to shoot her when he did. Even in my state, which has very strong castle laws, it’s illegal to chase down a fleeing burglar and kill them. And if they’re down on the ground, begging for their life and the life of their unborn child? That’s right out.
    To be clear, I don’t feel bad for her. I feel bad for her innocent child (or, if someone wants to be technical, fetus.)
    I agree that he was upset; who wouldn’t be in that situation? And scared, probably. But you can’t chase someone down and kill them, no matter how upset and scared you are. It’s a sucky situation for everyone involved, that much is sure.

  • Sara

    On one hand, I hate thieves. And I hate people who prey on children, the elderly and the disabled. On the other hand, she was running, she fell and then begged for her life and the life of her unborn child. And he shot her. Twice. He feels no remorse. That’s troubling.
    Even when nearly every crime was punishable by a date with the hangman, it was illegal to execute a pregnant woman. The pirates Anne Bonny and Mary Read escaped the gallows in 1720 by “pleading their bellies.” Although they were guilty of their crimes, their unborn babies were not. And although this woman was committing a crime, it isn’t a capital offense and even if it was, her unborn child was innocent. I’d like to think society has made just a few advances in some 300 years. He should be in trouble for this.

  • HAL 9000

    If this guy had been robbed multiple times by this pair in the past, I can empathize with his actions that much more. Dude probably dreamed of blowing these folks away, and low-and-behold his dream came true.

    And on the subject of unborn children, how can the law regard a fetus as a ‘unborn child’ in instances such as this, then turn around and regard the unborn child as a ‘fetus’ down at Planned Parenthood Twofer Tuesdays?

    The fetus/creature/human is a person legally speaking, or it isn’t.

  • Defafan

    They only stopped beating him when he was finally able to reach his gun, they might have just killed him. I have no sympathy for criminals that get got during a crime. Society doesn’t need them.

  • Buffettgirl

    He’s 80, he’d been physically attacked, which, let’s face it, has to be more terrifying the older you get, and he’d been robbed, AGAIN. I can see where adrenaline and a hearty dose of “fuck you” met up and resulted in him handling it the way he did. I’m just not so sure he’s going to get away with it. Especially with his lack of remorse…

  • Bladenukem

    That’s really too bad for the unborn child (if she was even pregnant) but it wasn’t the old man who killed the baby, it was her. Also, double kudos to the boyfriend, for being dumb enough to bring your possibly prego, unable to run, GF along for a B&E and for leaving her behind to die. I think the old man has the right idea, if you spread the message across the board that breaking into people’s houses will get you killed, regardless of age, race or child-bearing status, criminals will (hopefully) stop breaking into peoples houses………….and the ones that still do will die and save us all a shitload of taxpayer dollars.

  • JohnQknowitall

    If you only have one bottle remaining of clean and safe drinking water how important is that bottle of water? At 80 years old I doubt he is a flight risk and this trial could take years and the DA could drag his/her feet for a number of reasons.

  • Bladenukem

    St Peter: And how did you die?
    Prego Dead Chick: An Old Man chased me down and shot me in the back.
    SP: Why was he chasing you?
    PDC: Because me and my BF broke in his house for like the 3rd time and he was mad.
    SP: Sounds like you’re in the wrong place.

  • JohnQknowitall

    If the neighbors knew this couple had been robbing the neighborhood for
    some time, why where the thieves not arrested in the past?

  • Bladenukem

    Idunno, I think kicking in anyone’s door you take the risk of being shot in the face, danger or not. If you don’t want to get killed, then don’t break into strangers homes. It’s worked for me so far. I’ve lived my whole life not breaking into strangers homes and I haven’t been shot, not even once.

  • Bladenukem

    I’ll give you single murder, the baby doesn’t count, it’s not like the baby decided to break in the house, the baby’s death lies squarely in the mother’s hands.

  • lostufo

    Someone broke into my house Sunday thru my sons bedroom window, oh and yeah it was his birthday. That bastard left an open switch blade knife on my child’s bed. Yeah if I was home that would be one dead mother fucker. These asshole’s think they can just violate someones home, steal their property and get away with it. Too bad he didn’t shoot them both

  • lostufo

    maybe he shouldn’t have chased her, but she should not have broken into his home. If she was so concerned about her life and the baby maybe she shouldn’t have been robbing people. IMO

  • lostufo

    I agree! Good to know I’m not the only one who thinks she got what she ask for

  • Lena60

    *Scoots over *on the fence to let Stanley sit with me.* pats seat*

  • lostufo

    shit! Really? money, evidence, politics…come on now.the police told me on Monday, day two that my home was robbed that we couldn’t do shit and they wouldn’t do shit either. Said we could take 4-5 days off work if we took it took court but they the cops do not go to court over these crimes! Did I mention they left a weapon on my son’s bed?

  • Wolf_of_Mars

    Was that alleyway a simple shared access, or was it owned & maintained by the city/county? If it was a simple access, with a basic shared right-of-way; the shooting may still have technically been on his property. If so, the Castle Law still may apply, particularly in light of the physical injuries he’d already sustained.

  • Wolf_of_Mars

    Call their Lieutenant, if that doesn’t work, call the Chief of Detectives. If that doesn’t work, file a formal complaint after calling the Police Chief/Commissioner. If that doesn’t work, go to the local televised media.

  • David Richter

    I believe California has a law where if anyone dies while in the commission of a crime, you can be held responsible for murder. In fact, this law forms the basis of a great Paul Walker movie (Lazarus Project). I agree, the guy she was with when she got popped ought to be charged with murder.

  • Kim Graves

    Lol i have to choose one side of the fence over the other as i hate feeling torn yeah fuck her sorry but they jumped this old guy cause they thought oh we are young he is old lets fuck him up and take his stuff
    Beverly graves

  • Kim Graves

    When you are stressed and scared you do things you would not normally do like chase down your attacker
    Beverly graves

  • Kim Graves

    :0)

    Beverly graves

  • Kim Graves

    We would have been seeing the poor kid neglected or murdered on this site someday anyway sorry to say with a mom like her
    Beverly graves

  • justin

    Think about the child or children that grow up this couples….It’s the best they do not born.

  • link07

    I know a guy who was robbed, but shot at someone while standing in his doorway, he wasnt prosecuted. He emptied a full magazine into the robbers truck. I kinda hope this guy gets a little jail, she was shot once and begging for her life. It isnt about protecting anything, he just executed her.

  • mommytoalittleman

    They shouldn’t have been robbing people…..she would still be alive today. I don’t feel bad for her….just the baby.

  • Lawrencia

    No the old demented man is responsible for two deaths. You see he clearly was not defending himself legally under the letter of the law. He deserves to spend the rest of his miserable existence in prison. When you chase a pregnant woman down an alley and when she falls you shoot her twice in the back that makes you an evil cowardly man.

  • Lawrencia

    Your opinion isn’t the law, and he violated the law and should rot in hell.

  • Mike Hunt

    Thank god. One less criminal and less bastard child in the world

  • Mike Hunt

    Clearly you don’t live in a city plagued by budget cuts where robberies are the lowest priority. My city doesn’t even come out to take stolen car reports in person, and robbery calls are responded to the next day IF THAT

  • Mike Hunt

    Not only was she a thief, but she beat a senior citizen. One less cunt and future criminal in the world.

  • Bladenukem

    Hmm, you’re right, that “demented old man” shot a pregnant woman in the back that was running away from him. Why was she running away?

  • Mike Hunt

    Or a hero. Depends who’s on the jury sweets ;)

  • Mike Hunt

    If you can’t outrun an 80 year old man with a piddly .22, you deserve to be dead. That’s how it works in the animal kingdom.

  • Bladenukem

    And where was she running away from?

  • Mark

    Agreed! If he isnt charged and convicted we ALL have something to worry about. 80 year old men should not be left alone with guns. Next time some kid throws a ball in his yard or rides a bike down his alley, he may just shoot them.

  • Helen Payne

    I cant really bame him for being very angry, but she was running away and he had already shot her. that ws over doing it, he should go to jail

  • Bladenukem

    Oh no Mike, he’s fucked on the jury, dead pregnant chick, that wouldn’t even fly in Texas, but the important thing is he sacrificed himself to send a message to the remaining scum.

  • Bladenukem

    God, he’s not George fucking Zimmerman, they broke in his house and broke his bloody collarbone! When is it ok to shoot in your opinion? 3 pumps into the rape?

  • Mark

    OMG! First, you do not know that this couple broke into his house 3 times. That is heresay. Second, you do not get to make God’s decisions. That is what is wrong with you gun nuts. You think you are God.
    This assehole gunned down a pregnant woman outside his home while she was running AWAY! She posed no more threat to him at that time. He shot her twice in the BACK anyway. He MUST go to prison.

  • Mike Hunt

    Can’t wait to see her mama and her cousin on the news next “But she’s wuz a good girl! She’s wuz just tryna put food on the table for her family”

  • Bladenukem

    You’re absolutely right Mark, I don’t know if they broke into his house 3 times, but I know they broke in once and once should be enough for anybody. He will go to prison, I don’t think he should but the law is the law, and even if he does go to prison, he sent an important message: you break into someone’s house and you die, regardless of age, race or gender. I think it’s a fair message, and if properly processed, nobody will ever die in a strangers house with broken glass strewn around their feet…….

  • Wolf_of_Mars

    Clearly, I’m not stupid enough to live in a city, much less one that has all the problems you’ve listed plaguing it.

  • LuvsHorror

    Kid would have wound up featured here in sixteen years anyway.

  • LuvsHorror

    So its okay for them to break into his house, attack him, and steal from him, but heaven forbid they get what they deserve.

  • A Willful Boy

    In 1720, perhaps. But as of 1973, all this lady had was a lump of meaningless cells, right? :D

  • A Willful Boy

    So, you’re going to call the number of times they robbed him hearsay, but put full faith in the word of a thief cornered at gunpoint? Heck, I don’t even have a uterus, but you can bet I’d be claiming pregnancy if I thought it would save my life.

  • MrTwoPlums

    It’s ok to shoot as long as there is a threat to you, other innocents, or your property. As soon as they turned tail and fled, and he was no longer in harm’s way then it is not ok to follow and keep shooting. It becomes the polices responsibility after that.

  • MrTwoPlums

    You don’t watch many horror movies do you? The chick always falls when running from a slow lumbering killer.

  • MrTwoPlums

    An optimist I see. I would’ve put the over/under more about 12.

  • A Willful Boy

    Agreed. Legally, there’s going to be a pesky gray area due to the laws enacted following the murders of Laci Peterson and lil’ Conner. Of course, the UVVA has an exception for cases of abortion, but who knows? Maybe they needed to do this one last job to pay for the clinic visit…

  • MrTwoPlums

    I believe that the law will consider a fetus an “unborn child” and worthy of an extra murder charge so long as she intended to keep it. And because she’s dead and can’t confirm otherwise, they’ll err on the side of caution and assume she meant to carry the child to full-term.

  • Kim Graves

    I never said it was the law ya troll i said “its my opinion” what do you know the druggy thief
    Beverly graves

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Yep, CA has the Felony Murder Rule.

  • A Willful Boy

    I wonder if BarackO is gonna come out and say this thief looked like Malia, just like Trayvon looked like his fictional son would have? And speaking of look-alikes, Mr. Greer kinda has a Charles Bukowski vibe about him. Good to know there’s still a couple of crazy old crackas in South Los.

  • MrTwoPlums

    You know, for the years I’ve been reading this site and it’s comment boards, I was always impressed by how everyone, no matter their political affiliation and/or religion managed to leave that shit at the door before they came in. I hope those days aren’t over.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    It’s the same mechanism as possession of property, kind of. I can trash my car, but you better not.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Actually, his actions portray the exact opposite of “stressed and scared”. He was meticulous and cold. Very controlled.

    Understandably angry… but in CA, you can’t chase people down and murder them because they hurt you. If you can’t kill them right before they hurt you or as they’re hurting you, you missed your window.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    I’m just sad that it took three comments to get to the obvious.

  • LuvsHorror

    Just trying to give it the benefit of doubt. :/

  • Alexander DeLarge

    Wow. That’s just… well I’m not going to say unbelievable because this IS the dreamin demon… I still can’t wrap my mind around the fact that she wasn’t in his home, she was injured, begged for her life, and he still killed her. That’s just crazy. He could have EASILY apprehended her and waited for police to arrive. There we’re obviously two parties at fault here, but this man should be in trouble for what he did, regardless of his age.
    Oooh, time for my favorite quote.
    “You have shown a callous disregard for (her) dignity as a human being.”

  • ShelbySP

    I understand he was angry and what they did was wrong. If she was so concerned about her baby she shouldn’t have been out robbing people. And apparently she wasn’t too pregnant to try and jump bad and tackle him. But shooting an unarmed woman in the back as she runs away/begs for her life is the least honorable thing I have ever heard in my life. Dude is cold. If you dipped a banana in him then dropped the banana on the ground, the banana would shatter.

  • DeweyCheatam

    I also believe that the law in every state says you cannot “defend” yourself if / when an intruder / attacker has abandoned what they were doing and fled. No matter how much the POS deserves it or how okay I myself am with it.

  • Lena60

    Lmao, thats priceless.

  • Lena60

    Dude! You missed your window. It was Monday you were supposed to blame Obama and other unrelated topics.This should be a response down there.

  • Delaney3030

    Maybe he thought she was full of shit.

  • Brent Williams

    If you’re willing to extrapolate a bit, wouldn’t he be able to make an argument that given that this was a repeat of multiple prior break-in’s, the only way to ensure his personal safety and that of his property was to eliminate his attacker? It’s certainly his right to defend himself, I think everybody agrees on that point. This woman just broke into his house and violently attacked him, granted, now she’s wounded and on the ground begging for her life. How is he to know that she’s not carrying a concealed weapon to be used on him as soon as he drops his guard? He has no way of knowing that at the time, and chose the route which offered a guarantee of his safety.

    Seems to me like most of the comments here, and the laws being cited, (if they are indeed accurate citations) are holding a private citizen to a higher standard of scrutiny than we hold law enforcement. I’m thinking of the Eric Garner death via law enforcement, and of so many other situations where criminals have a shit-load of rounds pumped into them. It seems like if you’re willing to accept that he’s entitled to fire the first shot, then you have to accept that he’s entitled to fire the kill shot. There was a story on here where a dude ambushed teen burglars in his house after he laid a trap for them. Fuck that guy. This guy on the other hand, I don’t feel like it’s fair to levy the burden of having the presence of mind to do a split-second military-esque risk assessment after being attacked in the fashion he was. OK Done.

  • DeweyCheatam

    I don’t think you can compare situations where one involves law enforcement and one is between two civilians. But to answer your question, no, there is no state in the country, I’m pretty sure, where you can have any self-defense claim if you chased the person out of the house and then shot them. Believe me, I’m totally down with it and wish to God more people would do it, but under current law his trigger-happy ass is gonna go to jail unless maybe she’s suddenly stopped, whirled around, and appeared to point a gun at him or some shit like that. ETA: Assuming the facts as relayed in the story are correct. :)

  • Dilligaff-y

    This story is shady as fuck.

  • Sara

    If that turns out to indeed be the case, that he dreamed of blowing them away, finally got his chance and took it, then his actions would generally be considered murder, rather than self-defense.
    As for the personhood of an unborn child, I disagree with the law when it defines a person as one who has been born, or in some cases, a fetus after the 7th month of pregnancy. I used to agree with that definition, but then I gave birth to a child I had only carried for 6 months. If someone had killed me a few minutes before my son was born, they would only have been charged for my murder, not his. And that was a chilling thought. It was enough to make me reevaluate my views on when life begins. (I still won’t picket women’s clinics, though.)
    I don’t see the issue you mention as a matter of determining what’s a person and what’s not. It’s more about control, among other things. A developing fetus, as far as I’m concerned, is a person. But it’s a person who relies on another for everything, even decisions concerning it’s own well-being. Sometimes a continued existence isn’t in the best interest of a person, even an unborn person. Since that person can’t make the choice to end it, it has to be up to someone else. That someone else should ONLY be the mother. (My husband argues that the father should have a say, too, but I vehemently disagree. Too much opportunity for abuse there!) If anyone else makes that decision, it should be considered murder.

  • McDanel_1771

    If I sell you a high priced purebred dog with papers, but delivered a dog fetus, you would grasp the difference immediately.

  • Sara

    It’s possible. But that’s one situation where it’s best to err on the side of caution!

  • Harper

    Yeah, how far along was she? Are we talking 5 weeks or 3rd Tri.? You get what I’m saying? Maybe she wasn’t showing and he called bullshit on the pregnancy card.

  • Harper

    So the whole thing of chasing her down and shooting twice after she begged for mercy is troubling, however she made the decision to bust into someone’s home. It’s on her. If her accomice is caught, he should be held accountable for her death, not the old man. Lesson for the youngsters out there….DON’T BREAK INTO OTHER PEOPLE’S HOMES!!!

  • Delaney3030

    That’s what I was thinking.

  • McDanel_1771

    I don’t care in the least whether she was pregnant, I care that he shot her outside in an alley, when she was pleading, and that he shot her in the back. Then he then walked up and shot her again, laying on the ground. Jesu Christi, the Double Tap!
    Had he held her at gunpoint for the cops, the boyfriend would have been caught too, and there would be a special enhancement for a crime against a senior.
    This escalated from an aimless shot in the dark to an execution

  • Delaney3030

    Oh hell, that’s most situations.

  • Sara

    That is very, very true! :-)

  • peanutbutternuts

    I won’t say she got what she deserved but she sealed her fate when she and her friend decided to try to rob him. You break into someone’s house you better be ready to deal with the consequences. They not only robbed him, but attacked him. And it’s possible they were the culprits that robbed him before. If she truly was pregnant she’s just as responsible as the old man. You can’t commit a crime and then beg for mercy after you attack and rob someone. Fuck her and her life

  • peanutbutternuts

    and she violated the law and now she’s rotting in hell

  • mean birch

    and lets remember she attacked him.

  • mean birch

    damn, you decide who belongs in hell? Holy Hell Hatman.

    He IS a murderer. The law is clear on that. But I doubt if a jury convicts him,.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Their law specifically states “within his or her residence” not on their property. There’s also the pesky part about her begging for her life and being shot twice that’s going to cause him some troubles in the “fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self” part.

  • A Willful Boy

    What is the “that shit [sic]” which you would like left at the door exactly, levity?

  • A Willful Boy

    Obama? How do you see Obama is this? I responded to a question about unborn children by citing a law that was passed before most people knew who Obama was, silly.

    A Willful Boy: “Agreed. Legally, there’s going to be a pesky gray area due to the laws enacted following the murders of Laci Peterson and lil’ Conner. Of course, the UVVA has an exception for cases of abortion, but who knows? Maybe they needed to do this one last job to pay for the clinic visit…”

    Lena60: Dude! You missed your window. It was Monday you were supposed to blame Obama and other unrelated topics.This should be a response down there.

  • A Willful Boy

    Daddy gets no say in whether it’s kept or not, but he darn sure be ready to cough up some dough!

  • MrTwoPlums

    The shit I’m referring to in this case would be the unnecessary and or irrelevant comments with political/racial undertones that serve no purpose except to devolve the conversation into a shit-flinging mudfest.

  • HAL 9000

    It’s the same mechanism as possession of property, kind of. I can trash my car, but you better not.

    Then the second charge, by your analogy, should be ‘willful destruction of property’ or ‘vandalism’ or some such.

    It is a person, or it is not. There should be no ‘kind of’ for such an important definition in regards to the law.

  • Sejanus

    Ya the second shot is kinda cold blooded.
    I get that the dude was pissed about being picked on over and over and over but wow.
    You would think that sensation of just shooting one of them would be enough to tide ya over.

    Something tells me he won’t live to go to trial if the accomplice had any love for the girl.
    Time will tell.

  • HAL 9000

    But it’s a person who relies on another for everything, even decisions concerning it’s own well-being.

    Such latitude of definition includes a stroke or Alzheimer’s patient who left no will – along with a zillion other analogous situations. If it is a person, then it has all the civil rights of a person – or it is not a person and has no such entitlement. Very digital on/off kind of thing here in regards to the law.

    Biology is not so digital, so the law (I believe) has to make a trade there – for it is a dangerous legal precedent, a slippery slope if you will, grading how much of a person somebody is based on physiological criteria in regards to legal rights.

    One only needs read the three-fifths clause of the Constitution for an extreme example of legal perversions such principles of jurisprudence can lead, I would counsel not to re-open such doors in the law for any reason.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    A CA jury will convict him. A CA jury will absolutely, without a goddamn doubt, convict him.

    If they bring charges, which they better damn well do, he will be convicted.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    “Same mechanism” /= “Same thing“. I was helping someone understand the logic behind it.

    Intent plays a huge role in American (and international) justice. So, yes, such subtle nuances are recognized by the U.S. justice system all the time. If I am pregnant, I know my intent. You cannot. The justice system can rightfully assume intent to carry a child to term, as that is the norm.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Are we talking about “murder”? I should clarify, I don’t agree with murder charges being used in regard to the death of a fetus. Of course, I also don’t agree with Felony Murder Rules or murder charges against DUIs resulting in fatalities. I believe in “murder” in the purest, most traditional sense in the term.

    However, in regard to fetuses and DUI fatalities, I agree with nearly equally weighty sentences under different charges.

  • HAL 9000

    Good observation on intent in judicial precedent; but intent of one person regarding another should have no bearing defining if that ‘another’ is a person. Precedents for that concept in judicial history are rather ugly to modern sensibility, and should I believe be avoided.

  • HAL 9000

    Murder, manslaughter, whatever – charges applicable to killing another human being should only apply to unambiguous definitions of what is a human being.

  • HAL 9000

    I don’t think you can compare situations where one involves law enforcement and one is between two civilians.

    Another example of an all-too common confusion in today’s society. Police are civilians much as anybody else; cops are no army no matter how much they play soldier dress-up in their hand-me-down SWAT shticks raiding houses for a bag of dope.

    The latitude given to police more and more to essentially be above the law they allegedly enforce via the poison of ‘qualified immunity’ has been disastrous for this nation.

  • Aussie Sabbath

    Hey, that would be a cool birthday present. The switchblade, I mean.

  • lulz89

    Fucking old people. okay the couple was for sure in the wrong robbing the guy,, and he intentionally put a second round in her to kill, i hope this old shit bag gets raped so hard in prison his intestines come out of his anus and he cries in agony every single second, or better yet it takes 2 long painful hours to put him down on death row and he suffers a long a fucking painful death. of course this also comes from the fact i’d never raise a hand to a woman less she had a weapon and was going to kill me. god. fucking old entitled fucking douche bag, i hope he suffers the worst of suffering any man could imagine. i wish i could beat the fuck out of this old shit bag myself, i can guarantee he’d suffer . the way he mocked her is just disgusting. never mind there are people out there like the father in shiner TX who beat the man who was raping his daughter to death and even then still called for help and genuinely meant it as he didn’t want to take someones life. this old fuck wanted to but was too pussy till it was a woman. funny thing i grew up in central California where drive by’s , shootings, burglaries and stabbings were regular this fool has no idea what it is to live in a crime ridden area. fuck him. fuck his family. fucking mob should deal with this rich old fuck. break every finger he has, in front of his family, shoot him watch him beg and cry as he see’s his family and off him in front of them. oh another thing, growing up in central California i also understand the vast difference between the poor and rich and these rich fucks don’t know what it is to struggle, especially the rich ones. so yeah strong biased against these rich fucks in the hills.

  • Lena60

    I accidently replyed to the wrong post, that was meant for your post at the bottom.

  • colliefreak

    There is no way that he would get away with this here in CA. His life was not in immediate danger. I would bet that he would do some time.

  • Leasha

    This part: “double trouble if it turns out the woman actually was pregnant.” leads me to believe she was not even showing, so I’m thinking she was just saying an innocent being was growing in her womb in a desperate attempt to save her own ass. Even if she WERE showing, the bitch was so selfish she robbed an old man! Some fucking mother she would be. I don’t have sympathy for her. She was all about kicking his door in and robbing him blind for her own wants, but once SHE is on the end of the dangerous side, then it’s all “Oh I’m sorry now, please don’t kill me!” Should have thought about that before breaking into an innocent man’s home to fuck shit up. I clearly feel bad for the baby, providing there was one. Really nice job to the “baby daddy”, though.. when the going gets tough, he gets going withOUT his woman and/or unborn child.

  • Craig Ellis

    Ummm, this happened in California… : /

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    who’s decisions?

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    We cant be sure he is the dad though..its likely..but then again its also likely she wouldnt know who the father was either. I agree with pretty much all you said though I despise people who put themselves before their kids and just got through dealing with one such “mother” last night. My partners cousin rang me to ask if I would pick her 5 year old daughter up from her ex and keep her overnight because she was drunk and didnt want her ex ringing social services.. What made it worse was that she seemed to find the situation funny. Not so much when I told her to go fuck herself..then the tears and the begging started. My partner feels guilty over not helping her for some reason but I put my foot down and told her we were not going to enable her. She should have the kid taken away, she knew she had to collect her and decided to drink anyway which shows me she who comes first in that household. Im still pissed off, sorry for the rant.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    your biased? I couldnt tell. I can see where some of your anger comes from but I think its way over the top. Torture and murder him in front of his innocent family members? where they somehow involved in this and deserve to suffer as well? I missed that in the story.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    Where do you want to dip that banana exactly?

  • Trino PLS

    Bully finds a victim that he has considerable advantage over and doesn’t hesitate to take full advantage. During the course of being victimized the victim gains a considerable advantage over the bully and doesn’t hesitate to take full advantage.
    Yes it really is that simple. Don’t be bringing laws and other bullshit into it, we’re not assigned to the case.

  • Sara

    The problem with the law–any law–is that it can’t cover every unique situation to give adequate justice to everyone. I was speaking from my own moral viewpoint, which doesn’t always mesh with the law.
    ,
    I believe that a fetus, a brain-dead person and a person in a persistent vegetative state, etcetera, are all people. But I also know that if I were brain-dead, in a vegetative state or had developed in the womb with a disease that was going to painfully kill me in a few weeks, I would like for someone who cares for me to end it. Just being a person isn’t enough. Quality of life matters. If I can’t function as myself and have no hope of anything better, please kill me.
    ,
    Someone else, however, may not feel the same as I do. They may feel that because the fetus, brain-dead person or person in a persistent vegetative state are people, that they should continue to live, no matter how pointless or how much suffering is involved. And, although I do not agree with them, I believe they’re entitled to care for their own loved ones how they see fit. Besides, I could be wrong and perhaps they could still have a meaningful life. Their family and doctors are better qualified to make that call than anyone else.
    .
    In either case, I don’t like it when the law gets involved because someone is going to be stepped on. I remember the whole fiasco with Terri Schiavo’s feeding tube. What a mess:( All that bickering and controversy and in the end, the court sided with her husband. Would have been better to just let him make the decision and leave what should be a private matter alone.
    .
    But we’ve strayed considerably from the original issue. Fetus and unborn child mean the same thing. There’s less emotional value placed upon the word “fetus,” but that doesn’t change what it is. An unborn child killed along with its criminal mother didn’t die under the same circumstances as an unborn child killed during an abortion. Killing a pregnant woman should carry more weight than it would if she wasn’t pregnant.

  • Sara

    I think I’m the one that brought up “murder” in regards to the death of a fetus :) I only view the intentional death of a fetus as murder when the mother is attacked and the attacker’s intention is to kill the mother. I know that the law disagrees with me there and the law wins. (Duh, right?) But of course, you can’t scream “double murder” when a pregnant woman is killed without triggering more of the abortion debate.
    .
    I’m a bit biased with the issue because I gave birth to a baby that should have been a fetus for a bit longer. Whether he was inside me or outside me, he was still himself. And I wanted him. So if he had died because someone attacked me, I’d feel he had been murdered, whether the law agreed with me or not. And it probably wouldn’t have, which I would have accepted. But I still would have used the word “murder.”
    .
    In the end, though, even if killing fetuses (excluding abortion) and DUI fatalities aren’t called “murder,” as long as there is a stiff penalty for them, I’m good. I guess I’m easily pleased:)

  • Trino PLS

    Mocked her? I see his callous, cold-hearted, apathetic response to the situation in the interview, but definitely no “mockery”. Sort of cripples your otherwise fine rant really.
    Something does trouble me though… you seem to be affected on a deeply personal level (beyond merely growing up incentral California) by all of this; “Rich fucks in the hills”, awfully long-winded post referencing rape and torture of a specific individual. Ah, yes… how could i have not realized! You’re the pussy who left his “allegedly”, “potentially”, “possibly” pregnant crime partner to die! Thanks to the Felony Murder Rule you’re going to be in prison with this old fuck and when I hear that HE is doing all the rapin’ (i’ll make sure someone slips him a viagra just for you *wink*) and you’re the one missing the intestines… i’m gonna remember you with lulz. 89 fucking lulz all in a row.

  • Trino PLS

    Makes people think; is this “little guy” i’m about to pick about to go ballistic/postal and blow my brains out for my infraction? Maybe if fear of the law doesn’t stop them the thought of otherworldly justice will.

  • Muerte Roja

    Good for him. You do the crime, you better be prepared for these kind of consequences. As simple as that.

  • Sara

    Daddy isn’t having his internal organs permanently rearranged, suffering severe hormonal imbalances, constantly vomiting and fainting or going through several hours of torture, either. Mommy is the one who suffers, so Mommy makes the decisions.

  • Muerte Roja

    She deserved it

  • Muerte Roja

    Mark, stop being a giant fucking vagina

  • Trino PLS

    She was injured and he put her down. If i was a lawyer i’d be going the whole “she was a real bitch, a dog” for taking advantage of the vulnerable venerable and getting an ASPCA rep to talk about humane killings.

  • AD Fkin Ate

    I’m all for what he did pregnant or not…. In the world we live in now you cant take any chances say they came back weeks later to kill the guy who fucking knows how peoples minds work… But she shouldnt be having babies anyways if she is going to be like that no loss except for the family and friends and hell I dont know them so I can sleep tonight…

  • Trino PLS

    They can always put her on the table now.

  • Trino PLS

    You know what helps me to sleep at night with this article under my pillow? Thinking that the “pleading” was an excuse, and that as soon as the old man let his defenses slip they would have jumped him and “executed him” instead. Then carried on ransacking his belongings, after which she would have had the baby (let’s give her this benefit of the doubt if nothing fucking else) and told herself every day that she was a good mom for providing for her child by robbing other people of their belongings, knowing full well she murdered the old guy and shat all over his decaying corpse.
    I tell you it works better than hot chocolate!

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    Whats your first language?

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    He may have just saved another old man getting beaten to death though in another robbery? he definitely stopped some future robberiesand clearly this couple dont give a shit who they hurt. Im still on the fence here but im trying to stir the pot a bit. (long day at work)

  • Trino PLS

    No but clearly you’re stupid enough to assume he moved to such a city for those very reasons *facepalm*

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    shit both times my girl was pregnant I experienced quite a lot of torture actually. 7 months the first time and nearly 9 the second. She even said to me recently she is amazed I stayed with her becuase if I acted like that she would have left..she doesnt realise I have an uncanny ability to zone out but appear to be fully functional.

  • Jessie

    $100 says the thievin’ bitch ain’t even preggers.

  • Trino PLS

    Parkinsons, dementia… those are just the first two I could put to a jury to explain the trigger finger and “inaccurate recollection of events that portray the execution of a petty thief and her unborn child”. After getting him acquitted we can ramp up the attack in the media to win hearts and minds with words like “former PoW” and “World War 2 Veteran suffering PTSD / Shellshock”, from there we’ll get donations and kickstarter pledging for a witty t-shirt slogan business (“i’d double-tap that ass”), the profits of which will go to his young blonde bimbo gold-digger mistress with a penchant for twitter faux pas (“he shoots into me twice a night”). Man… this guy could live the life, if only he had enough time left to live it.

  • Wolf_of_Mars

    I was merely bringing up possibilities. Like I have time to look up the minutiae of the laws pertaining to the land of “Fruits ‘N Nuts?”

  • Jessie

    I’m pretty sure that’s most men :-p

  • Wolf_of_Mars

    No, I just happen to think that if the law enforcements’ priorities in the city you live in aren’t in line with what you want, then work to change the way things are done, or leave. I never said he moved there because he wanted to deal with that garbage.
    I do think that it’s stupid to live in a city, anyhow.

  • SayAnything

    I agree with a lot of the comments regarding this elderly gentleman, however I do think that the second shot was a bit cold. Although with the deplorable and disgusting things that happen nowadays, the guy could have saved his own life. Regarding above mentioned atrocities, his act is zilch in comparison.

  • BoyGirlBoyGiraffe

    While I agree that thief’s deserve to be curb stomped over a steaming pile of human feces and forced into hard labor while having 3 square meals given to them then immediately taken away… this old fuck straight up murdered that poor girl. And per his own admission, she plead for her life and clearly stated she was pregnant, and with that knowledge he took pleasure in pulling the trigger. That’s double homicide! No question about it! I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s a serial killer with that type of cold hearted fucked up personality! He’s lived a longer life than most people will ever live, and I’m sure he chalked his dumb shit he pulled in his youth up to funny stories, and he still denied that poor stupid girl the opportunity to mature into a person that looks back on those mistakes and shakes her head at it… I don’t care how far along that baby was either, he still killed the baby! At any stage of pregnancy, that baby is alive and growing! Selfish mother fucker! He could’ve waited for the cops to arrest her, and she would have most likely ratted out her boyfriend and likely got his shit back while they get punished to the full extent of their actions and actually feel remorse for what they did.

  • Trino PLS

    There was an element of undefined sarcasm in my comment. I will say this though, there are many reasons people put up with terrible or otherwise imperfect conditions. Perhaps it is due to old-fashioned economic hardship, but the reasons can be myriad, diverse and complicated (and almost always are). It’s just never as simple as “change the system, change yourself or leave” sounds.

    I agree with your sentiment about living in a city though.

  • cedric

    WOW – I really hate Burglars .. but truth be told I hate Murderers more, and this old ass, tortoise shell looking mf’er is a cold blooded murderer. If you check Tom I’d bet my spare change he’s got a criminal record. The first shot was not justified, and the second shot just proves the guy to be a soul-less Bastard. Everyone in this story is pathetic.

  • cedric

    You’re not safe at home. Someone may break into there and shoot you. J/S

  • ShelbySP

    Not in him. I don’t want a flash frozen banana.

  • Trino PLS

    I’ll agree with the last part. It’s a lose-lose for everyone. I can’t condone what the old guy did but when you set criminal events in motion you have to man up and face the consequences, no matter how dire. The two thieves had a choice before walking this path, the old guy didn’t have that same choice and was forced into a confrontation with them . Everyone’s fucking life in this story is up the shit, including the thief on the run (because likely he has some association with the deceased, whether or not this includes being the father of the supposed child, and also because he is likely to be embroiled in the additional charges due to the Felony Murder Rule). Lives get ruined because of bad decisions… here lies a perfect example.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    I’m always willing to extrapolate. :)

    No, his history of victimization is, legally, not a strong enough defense. I have no doubt that it will be brought up as a point to consider to garner sympathy from the jury, but for it to be defense enough in and of itself, we would have to be able to establish that these people specifically were the ones responsible for prior incidents (via prior convictions, not simply witness “identification”) and that he was aware of this at the time of the shooting. Even then, far from a guaranteed defense. He shot someone in the back outside of his house. Then again after the threat had been subdued. Very, very illegal.

    Right or not, we absolutely hold private citizenry to a higher standard of scrutiny than law enforcement. But even a cop would have been fucked in this situation. He executed what I assume to be an unarmed individual (only because I haven’t heard otherwise). Not even cops get away with that.

    But cops do have the right in some situations to shoot at someone who is running away. They have that right because they have been trained to have the presence of mind to assess the risk, and society trusts them with that responsibility. This guy does not have that right.

  • Sara

    That’s what my husband said, too :) I guess I have been undermining the father’s role, especially when it comes to good men like you and my husband. I was thinking more of men like my friend’s ex-husband, who considered his job done when the baby was conceived. She even had to drive herself to the hospital while in labor! But when their daughter was born, he wanted to step in and say who got to hold her, what she got to eat, etc. To hell with guys like him! (I was going to say, “Screw guys like him!” but then I realized that’s part of the problem.)

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    “actually feel remorse for what they did” Thanks for todays laugh, I had been waiting all morning for it.

  • Trino PLS

    “LONG BEACH, CA – A home burglary turned to shit for two people”

    …better change that to three people.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    FS you mean im not special?

  • velvetjoneslives

    This is one of those cases where the law is kind of two faced. This guy will likely be charged, because the criminal was fleeing the scene. But, if the reverse was true, and she had shot the old man as he was fleeing the house, she would have been charged and likely convicted of first degree murder. Whenever you commit a crime and something goes bad, such as the victim getting killed, the charges can be elevated to premeditated murder, because by committing the crime likely had the expectation that something could go very wrong. So I look at it this way. You broke in to someone’s home, you then proceeded to beat the crap out the occupant. You should have anticipated that something very bad could have happened. Unfortunately for her and her unborn child it did. I have a feeling if the tables were turned and she was the one with the gun and the old man was begging, she would not have thought twice about plugging him.

  • Jessie

    You’re special to me, Stan. You’re special to me. Especially if I come over there for a visit ;-)

  • jansav

    I’m not going to go into the right or wrong of this, just the legal aspect. If you shoot someone while they are lying on the ground then you just became a murderer. Simple as that. While I feel for this man because of his age I’m afraid there will be charges for him.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    Well then you should be glad to hear that one of my outdoor projects is very near completion. Put 10 Afghani Kush out and 6 made it through til now but for some reason they are about twice the size I expected them to be, certainly not complaining about that. If we get a summer like this next year you best believe I will be doing the outside again x4. I still have a shit load of the other left so I could be set for the whole year but as said before that wont stop me, I enjoy horticulture too much.

  • Lena60

    Wow, I agree with most of this post.How odd you would bring Up the Terri Schiavos case. I was just thinking about it the other day and its a perfect example.The husband made the right decision I feel . I was glad the court sided with him.

  • Jessie

    Hahaha we were just on the Skype with my inlaws over there and they were complaining about the heat :-p Obviously no where NEAR as hot as it is here so we have to laugh. I just got back from a road trip where I picked up a MASSIVE amount myself. Until I get into horitculture that’s just the way it is :-p

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    We are becoming a rare breed lol but yeh the woman of course goes through more than the man but we dont have it as easy as women think :)

  • Vesper Bond

    It’s California. The jury will convict.

  • Cori Bulatovich

    WesupportTom on fb check it out

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    Yeh id say its hotter over there for sure but we just cant handle the heat at all. We complain about the cold all year and then summer comes and we all hide inside because its too warm. When they say its warm it is probably what you would call a mild day. Tell you what, if you ever do get over I will show you all I have learned about growing :)

  • Buffettgirl

    I had a thought, and seeing as how it’s WAY before noon PDT, I am unable to reason my way out of it and thought you might be able to help… Could a defense be made that he acted the way he did “in defense of others”? Seeing as how he had just been brutally attacked, could he legitimately claim he was in fear that his immediate neighbors would be similarly attacked? Especially since the neighborhood had recently been a target for break ins and car thefts? Just a question I haven’t had enough coffee to face.

  • mean birch

    Sounds like a conviction in CA is a “given,”. But will he serve time?!

  • mean birch

    Yea I’ve heard……:-)

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Nope. Too speculative. The threat to others has to be immediate as well. Let’s say some dude is checkin’ out his sniper rifle on his balcony one fine afternoon when he hears shots fired. He looks to see some other dude has opened fire on a crowd. Sniper dude can take out mass murderer dude even though the threat to him was not immediate, because there was an obvious threat to others.

    Even then, just like in the pharmacist case we remember where the guy shot one of the perps and then came back to kill him… you just can’t be doing that shit. You cannot legally fire another shot if the threat has been subdued by a previous shot under any circumstances.

    Even in our sniper scenario, say the sniper wounds dude, and someone in the crowd he was shooting into immediately disarms him. Neither sniper dude nor disarmer dude can fire another shot into mass murderer dude.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Yep. CA has such a bloated prison population, it’s brought them near bankruptcy. They don’t play around.

  • Buffettgirl

    Thanks! What about a “dim cap” defense? I know that everyone is focused on that second shot, but I just can’t help but feel sorry for the old Dude too. He’s old, he’s been robbed repeatedly, he’s in agony from the beating and broken collarbone (I broke mine back in high school, that shit hurts!) and adrenaline is more than likely flooding his system. Despite what can be called a cavalier delivery to the media, he must have been scared as hell at the time. Oftentimes, it seems to me, that laws don’t take into account the frailty of the humans that have to live by them.

  • Andrea

    I’ve heard relatives discuss this when I was little. Their contention was that if you have to shoot somebody, shoot them, but if they’re outside of your house, then you should drag the body back inside for a self-defense plea. One does have the right to defend oneself. If he had shot her while she was still in the house, no problem. But the threat was over once the thieves took off and he was in vigilant pursuit. The only time it will matter that she was pregnant is if he gets charged for murder, which if she was pg, then they’ll consider the unborn child. He may end up just getting charged with manslaughter.

  • http://www.ebay.com/usr/jusdewit8 Jus Dewit

    Here in Texas, we have some special allowances to shoot and kill thugs, as long as it’s after dark. May I present Texas Penal Code Section 9.42. :

    § 9.42. DEADLY FORCE TO PROTECT PROPERTY. A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or
    tangible, movable property:
    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the
    other under Section 9.41; and
    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the
    deadly force is immediately necessary:
    (A) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of
    arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the
    nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime; or
    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing
    immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated
    robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the
    property; and
    (3) he reasonably believes that:
    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or
    recovered by any other means; or
    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to
    protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or
    another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    And that’s jus one more reason I love this great state of TEXAS! YEE-HAW!

  • Taster’sChoice

    While I agree with you on this, it made me consider something else. Since the prego dumbo was killed in the commission of a crime, isn’t the dood who left her in the dust also responsible for her murder? Hmmmm… Something to think about.

  • Sara

    Thanks:) I thought Terri Schiavo’s case provided a good illustration of what I was trying to convey. I remember feeling very sad about the whole situation, that the media attention, the politicians getting involved and the constant bickering of people who had no ties to her or her family. I feel it added further indignity to an already bleak situation.
    .
    On the bright side, the controversy made more people think very seriously about an uncomfortable issue. As a result, many have filled out living wills and/or talked to their family members about their wishes. So something good came of it. It’s just sad that it had to be such a circus:(

  • Quasimodem1969

    I’m with you, Kim. I’m only saddened that the guy with her got away, and did not get to suffer the same fate.

  • Quasimodem1969

    It’s times like this I wish there were such a thing as “hell.”

  • rhinana

    wait, at this point there is no actual proof she was pregnant? When I worked in a prison women would constantly lie about being pregnant to avoid shackles and a multitude of other things. I would have no doubt a thief and violent offender would also lie to spare her pitiful life.

  • DeadlockVictim

    Double savings for California taxpayers: No imprisonment and no welfare payments.

  • Lena60

    Yes it is/was sad and I was very frustrated over it.

  • Lena60

    No…Go ahead, rant away.

  • Twisted1

    I agree, once they left the home he was no longer in imminent danger. He hunted her down she fell and begged for her life. That is cold.

  • Twisted1

    I don’t think he was scared. I think he was pissed. He was tired of being robbed and wanted revenge.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    And yet… cities are where the educated congregate. Odd. :P

    I also think it a little strange that your recommendation if law enforcement is non-responsive is to move farther away from it. Budget cuts sometimes leave rural communities nearly entirely unsupported.

    I don’t know. I enjoy culture. Kinda hard to find in BFE. I used to sometimes dream about living in BFE. Then I got a job in BFE. It’s fucking gorgeous… when the scenery isn’t interrupted by lifted trucks with over-sized Confederate flags tastelessly and proudly flown from the rear, as drove by my work just two days ago. And the grocery shopping can sometimes leave a bit to be desired.

    I just wish the urban dwellers and rural folk could view each other with a bit more appreciation. My state, Washington, occasionally wants to break along the mountains, which generally divide urban from rural. It’s always a terrible idea. We might have a harder time getting amazing wine and produce (really, Washington wine is some of the most underrated in the country). And they might disintegrate into a lawless, dystopian “society”, since… you know, we carry them economically.

  • Mike Hunt

    For those commenters up in arms who haven’t read the update: she wasn’t pregnant.

  • Kim Graves

    How could anyone any age not be scared, he may sound all tough after the fact but let me tell you when you are attacked out of the blue its scary, i dated a guy who out of nowhere tried to slit my throat, we dated 4 months, never fought nothing and just bam grabbed me around my throat and grabbed a knife off the table, put my head through a window, then after i got out the back door dragged me through the broken glass and cement, i still carry the scars on my feet and knees, he dragged me by my hair and i closed the screen door on his hand and pulled resulting in a huge softball size patch of hair being torn out, i pissed myself i was so scared, so yes i think his comments make him sound like a tough guy, but i think he was scared
    Beverly graves

  • Twisted1

    Ok correction I have no doubt he was afraid when he was being attacked. But I don’t think he was afraid when she was begging for her life. I think he was pissed and wanted to teach these young punks a lesson to not mess with him anymore. He had all the power at that moment not them. He chased them he did not lock his door and hide.

  • warwitheastasia

    I saw the dead woman’s mug shot on a different site, so obviously she’s been arrested before and this wasn’t a one-time only thing. Mr. Greer doesn’t look like a rich man, so I’m guessing these 2 weren’t professional cat burglars; instead, they were stealing meager scraps from other poor people, which is the calling card of drug addict thieves. I’d bet any amount of money this woman was stealing to feed a heroin or meth habit, which means she was using while pregnant. I’d also bet any amount of money that baby was an accident, and she clearly didn’t give a shit about that fetus until she could use it as a prop/human shield.
    Why do we put people in prison? If we’re smart, we put them there because they’re dangerous and likely to reoffend; we use prisons to keep society safe from people who are prone to violence and crime. In other words, people should be sentenced on the basis of their likelihood of reoffending. Mr. Greer has almost no chance of reoffending, now that these two won’t be back to burgle his home. He’s a threat to no one, and society would be no better if he was behind bars. Sad as it may be, society is better off without that woman and her soon to be neglected child eating up resources that could go to other people who haven’t dedicated their lives to making America worse.
    If you want to admit that you advocate using prisons as a form of societal revenge and eye-for-an-eye punishments, fine, but if your goal is to use prisons to create a safer society, then putting Greer in there makes no sense at al.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    I have just jumped down off the fence

  • D. Scott Whitaker

    Robbery is a risky profession. With most states having laws that permit people to carry a firearm it is becoming an even more risky profession. They mentioned in the story this guy has been robbed by them in the past so this elderly gentleman was trying to solve his problem in which he was 50% successful. Don’t charge him with shit in my opinion…

  • Lena60

    I just read the update. her autopsy showed she was not pregnant.If it is true these two asshats robbed this man several times, well he just might get away with murder.

  • Lena60

    Well Athena, this just might go the other way all together.His age will play a factor and if it is proven these two have robbed him twice before, even more so.her autopsy showed she was not pregnant.After all scum like Oj got away with murder.They caught Gus Miller her accomplice and are charging him with murder, robbery and weapons charges.Good, glad they caught him.

  • All Points Bulletin

    She was probably just carrying a spare tire like many women do and she thought she could be creative with it.

  • https://www.facebook.com/shawn.ealy.7 Shawn Ealy

    still he killed two people. could of at lest not try to kill her maybe aim for arm or leg. she goes to jail and hopefully catch the male as well. he was not thinking at all.

    i mean if that was me. id chase her down keep her there until the cops came. now that they didnt caught the guy…and he finds out that his prago gf and fetus is dead old man better not hope he shows up with a gun next time around.

  • Stormclouds

    I’m sorry, but she was running away. One shot? Excusable *maybe*, three, including the one that missed? Sorry, but that’s murder… and god help him if she WAS pregnant.

  • justin

    Not Yours :)

  • rat4dinner

    he did nothing wrong had to do it to prevent them from coming back to hurt him.
    good now she cant steal any more or raise a thief for a kid he did the world a service
    by ridding that piece of trash.
    oh her great man who left her there to die what coward hopefully he do the right thing and eat a bullet

  • rat4dinner

    murder he was defending himself your a dumbass

  • rat4dinner

    no he stopped this scum from coming back read the whole story and then you see it had to be done they attacked him and had already robbed him several times he had the right to stop this and keeping them from coming back this time maybe to kill him.
    ANY GOOD THIEF IS A DEAD ONE!!

  • rat4dinner

    I DO NOT AGREE THEY WOULD HAVE CAME BACK AGAIN THIS TIME THEY WOULD HURT OR KILL HIM FOR BOTCHING THERE THEFT.

  • rat4dinner

    YOU ARE DEFENDING THIEVING SCUM WHO ROBBED AND BEAT A ELDERLY PERSON WHAT IF THIS WAS YOU PARENT?

  • Lena60

    Your a dumbass, because as we know, no one has ever gotten away with murder. As I assure you according to the law, not my law the states law, he could be tried for murder…look it up.

  • Lena60

    * checks stan for splinters*

  • DeweyCheatam

    Good job of purposefully missing my point.

  • Toltepeceno Delsur

    No one has ever gotten away with murder? Very ignorant comment, many people have. “News reports based on FBI statistics show that somewhere between 35%-40% of homicides in the US go unsolved in the US today.”

  • Lena60

    You must have left your sarcasm button at home.

  • Toltepeceno Delsur

    Sarcasm? I quoted fbi statistic’s. Do you really think 35-45%$ of murders do not go unsolved?

  • Lena60

    Dude never mind,… your not getting me.I was Being ( SARCASTIC) To the other person who rudely posted to me.Sorrt That you are still totally confused by it.

  • Toltepeceno Delsur

    You replied to ME and said I left MY sarcasm button at home, YOU are the one that is not getting it .

  • Lena60

    I get it. Y
    our a troll enough said.* rolls eyes*

  • Toltepeceno Delsur

    You are an illiterate, progscum child molester.

    “Your” in your post just further proves it.

    Illiterates without the capability to think also flimg around “troll” a lot.

  • Lena60

    Flimg? lmao. Go play in your sandbox troll.

  • Toltepeceno Delsur

    I’ll play with your 2 mommies at the same time instead child molester.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Seriously, dude? You’re articulate, albeit a touch caustic, although that’s not necessarily a bad thing around here…

    So it pains me to see this not registering for you (unless, of course, this is a ruse, in which case, bear with me since you asked for it). Please allow me to try to make some sense of it for your benefit.

    Lena said, “…Because as we know, no one has ever gotten away with murder.” This statement was sarcastic. I like to try to make sarcasm apparent by utilizing devices like italics to dramatically emphasize parts of a sentence that might indicate to the reader that I am being facetious. However, Lena is a regular commenter here, so I benefit from familiarity that you would not.

    So, when you admirably responded with statistics, she pointed out that you were responding seriously to a comment that had been made in jest. Of course, it regressed into shit-flinging from there.

    I hope we’re on the same page in regard to that matter now.

    On a different note, was “…your 2 mommies,” an attempted insult? Super weak, bro. If you are, in fact, a troll, you’re going to have to step your game up somethin’ fierce, because the trolls we’ve accumulated at this site will put you to shame. If not, well, nothing to worry about, I suppose. I would instead implore you to slowly work the stick out of your ass and keep commenting. :)

    One last thing, since we’re preaching about grammar… If you’re doing so, yours had better be on point, yes? Single digit numbers should always be spelled out. That is a fundamental rule that is found in every style guide ever drafted on English language; it is found on page 35 in my preferred guide, The Elements of Style by Strunk and White. What you do with ten and beyond is a matter of preference, however. That said, grammar’s a pretty dry subject, and I rather prefer to leave it alone entirely.

    Welcome to The Dreamin’ Demon. Enjoy your stay.

  • captaingrumpy

    THERE WAS NO BABY !!!!!!!!!

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    I agree that this man does not belong in prison for the reason you’ve listed. This man is only predatory under very specific circumstances.

    I would like to see him convicted of a felony and his right to own a firearm taken away, however. First off, his owning a firearm didn’t protect him from harm; it only enabled him to commit a crime after the fact, so I don’t want anyone crying over him losing his right to “protect himself”. Furthermore, the trauma he incurred combined with a lack of consequence could result in him becoming hyper-vigil, and chasing down and executing would-be thieves could turn into shooting the man innocently looking for his cat in this man’s yard at night. I contend that he is of minimal threat, but I am not comfortable asserting that he is no threat whatsoever.

    As for the woman, while your scenario is a definite possibility, it is so far from guaranteed that it’s a bit irresponsible (and disturbingly callous) to use it. I worked on a case in California that involved a woman in her late thirties. When she was younger,she was gang-affiliated, and she racked up two strikes as the result of two vicious crimes that earned her a good bit of prison time. The first was an armed robbery charge, and she went away for 5 or so years. When she got out, she quickly re-offended. It was aggravated assault this time, and her second strike. She became pregnant prior to sentencing and had her child in prison. Her son was given to a family member.

    While in prison, she did what many prisoners who we don’t bother to make note of do – she got a college degree. She had become a model prisoner with hope of gaining custody of her son sometime after release. Upon release, she was lucky and got a good job, quickly working her way up within the company thanks to that degree (hard sciences, FTW). When she decided she had the resources to give her son a good life, she petitioned for custody and won.

    One unfortunate day, a friend of her brother’s called her asking her to give her brother a ride home from a party. Her brother was extremely intoxicated to the point of falling down frequently. She went over and got him. And maybe she noticed the ounce of weed he slid under the passenger seat; maybe she didn’t. Either way, she did not notice him fail to take it with him, so when she was pulled over not long after dropping him off for having a broken tail light, she thought nothing of agreeing to a search of the vehicle.

    And suddenly… she was looking at her third strike. In case you’re curious, the lawyer I was interning for got the charge reduced to a misdemeanor, and she was sentenced to a fine.

    So, this man could have been executing a drain on resources. But it’s entirely possible that he took the life of an eventual wife and mother and tax payer. Either way, it wasn’t his call to make.

  • link07

    Well put.

  • link07

    I have that same skill

  • link07

    Kinda different since Trayvon wasn’t actually breaking any laws until he was provoked.

  • Chinchillazilla

    CAPSLOCK MAKES YOUR POINTS MORE VALID.

  • Chinchillazilla

    THEN I WOULD BE DISAPPOINTED IN MY DAD FOR MURDERIG SOMEONE.

  • http://batman-news.com Stanley_Ipkiss

    No I didnt think it was English

  • Taster’sChoice

    Well said Athena; you are more diplomatic and have more patience than I do that’s for sure. Also, as someone who prides myself in proper grammar (and is frustrated when people are doing it wrong,) I was completely unaware of the numbers rule of which you spoke. DOH! But I know where to put that tricky semicolon! lol

  • Scout Kent

    Well, no, because the burglar was white. Nice freaking assumption, though.

  • EmilyClocke

    When someone is running away from you, DO NOT SHOOT THEM. That is just cold-blooded murder.

  • RobynneB

    You’re!!!
    And you are a moron. He was not “defending himself”, he was not afraid. He subdued her and didn’t give a flying fuck. What he did was murder a woman. He was pissed that they kept robbing him, he was pissed that they jumped him, and he was pissed that the guy got away. He killed her because he was pissed, not because he was defending himself.

  • RobynneB

    The post you responded to was sarcasm. Good god!!! Are you really trying to fight over that?

  • RobynneB

    Still not legal. It’s still murder.

  • Bladenukem

    There are many absolutes in life, the sun rises every morning, politicians lie, fish breathe underwater and if someone ever breaks into my house they will be killed in a way that ensures a closed casket funeral, if a funeral is ever held. Just sayin’.

  • Annie Belle

    Usually I’m all for self defense, even if you need to use lethal force. However, once they’ve escaped my house, it’d be over. I’ve had someone lurk around my windows one night. Funny how the sound of rackin one in with the shotgun alone does. I saw three teens haulin serious ass. Pretty sure they were peeking to see what we have. The windows have a tint to them. I can see them, but they can’t see me.

  • come_and_see

    An update on the story is the woman that was killed was not pregnant and her MOTHER was the getaway driver!

  • Sue Askevold

    Yep, fucked up for sure and yes he went a tad far…BUT…i wonder if any of these young fuks who think 80 year olds are easy targets may think again. Can only hope.!!

  • Sue Askevold

    Wasn’t pregnant and somone’s gotta be god…the imaginary one not doing a very good job of it…

  • Emilia

    Go Grandpa, go Grandpa, go Grandpa, go! Go Grandpa, go Grandpa, go Grandpa, go! (Baltic and Mediterranean Avenues for anyone who guesses where I got that from.)

  • Mark

    oh, so as long as they’re not pregnant, its okay to shoot an unarmed person in the back while they are running away.
    Look! I see someone running away from me down the street! I think they robbed me in the past. Excuse me while I go shoot them in the back.
    You people are crazy. F–ing crazy.

  • Erin

    Billy Bob Thornton, anyone?? Anyone?

  • Eyam Ova-Urazis

    I don’t feel one bit sorry for her. Her actions led to her demise, and she was a liar to the end. Even if she wasn’t pregnant then, she may have been in the future and that’s not the type of person who needs to be procreating. Good riddance.

  • Leasha

    It’s now been revealed she was NOT pregnant. Just lying to save her pathetic life.

  • darsa

    You’re. Jes’ Sayin’.

  • Clark Potter

    Interesting that no one discussing this knows the proper form of “you’re” to use. If you’re going to write “You’re a dumbass” then at least spell everything in your sentence correctly! You’ve just lost your privilege to ever call someone a dumbass until you learn 3rd grade English.

  • no

    style guides are not grammar guides

  • goreblaster

    There is a liberal bias in the nbc coverage of this story, and I have never ever complained about that before. First they say his “sprawling” home in an “upscale” neighborhood. How is the value of the property at all relevant? It’s not as bad to break in and rob expensive houses? Then they fail to mention that they beat the shit out of this old guy. The injuries he was getting treated for, including a broken collar bone, were given to him by the two intruders. All they mention in the report is that he was “thrown to the ground”.

    When strangers break into your home, steal your property and cause extensive physical harm to you, the natural and healthy response is to fight back. Guns are the great equalizer. He fought back and he was completely justified in doing so.