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Family Of 12 Year Old Who Committed Suicide Suing Boys Who Bullied HimNew York, NY - The family of Joel Morales, the 12-year-old boy who hanged himself last year over constant bullying, are now suing the boys that allegedly bullied him.

Morales’ mother, Lisbeth Babilonia, has filed suit against the city of New York, the Board of Education and the boys she says bullied her son to death – named in the suit as Kenneth, Stephen, Omar and Elijah ‘Doe’, along with the boys’ parents

According to the suit, Joel’s small size and fragile nature made him a perfect target for school bullies. “Joel was a small-framed fragile boy who sometimes stuttered and had problems with fine motor skills. He was extremely short and underweight for his age,” the suit says.

His family says they complained to the Department of Education multiple times a week to have something done about the constant harassment Joel was experiencing at Public School 102.

“He told me about it many times,” Babilonia said. “I went to school and spoke with the teacher, spoke with the assistant principal, with the principal. We met many times, with the teachers, with everyone, even with the counselors, and nothing. Everything stayed the same. They did nothing.”

Family Of 12 Year Old Who Committed Suicide Suing Boys Who Bullied HimEventually, school officials spoke with the alleged bullies’ parents. This did not go the way Joel had hoped, according to the suit. After the meeting, the bullies pelted Joel with pipes and sticks, leading to an order of protection being filed against one of the bullies, and Joel being transferred to Public School 57.

This did not stop the bullies, as they just waited until after school to fuck with Joel. “The kids knew he moved and they went to the after-school club and waited for him,” his grandfather said.

The taunts reached a new low when the boys started picking on Joel about his dead father, who committed suicide when Joel was only 4-months-old.

On May 29, 2012, Joel told a friend he was tired of all the bullying then hanged himself in his family’s apartment hours later.

Neighbors say that his mother was the one who found him and let out a “blood-curdling scream’” as she cut down her son’s body with the same knife she then used to stab herself with.

A neighbor knocked the knife out of Babilonia’s hand before she could harm herself further and tried to perform CPR on Joel, but it was too late.

Seems like Joel’s family followed all the steps necessary when it comes to a child being bullied in school and out. Meetings with school officials, meetings with police.  It does seem as if something, somewhere failed Joel. Because, let’s face it, if the details in the suit are correct, this went far beyond childhood pecking order bullshit. The actions Joel’s bullies took were downright criminal.

While I don’t think a lawsuit will bring Joel’s family any closure whatsoever, I do feel that, in some cases, a hefty payout is the only way to enact change. It would also send a message to parents who have been made aware of their children’s bullying activity; that maybe it would be in their best interest, financially, to nip that shit in the bud.

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  • https://www.facebook.com/dawnmojo Dawn Micheau

    heartbreaking :( My son was bullied last year and after the school did nothing I switched his school. So far so good..

  • https://www.facebook.com/dawnmojo Dawn Micheau

    heartbreaking :( My son was bullied last year and after the school did nothing I switched his school. So far so good..

  • sugarpie

    So just where do you turn if you have been a totally pro-active parent and still can’t get anyone to do anything to get control of the little beasts?

  • Kelly Eklectusbird

    Tv?

  • Wanda Bates Syko

    Good! I’m glad they’re suing. If the so called adults refuse to make the little monsters in their charge behave like civilized human beings, then maybe it’s time to hit them somewhere they’ll understand: the pocketbook.
    Such a shame.

  • EveryVillainIsLemons

    While I normally thing that our society is too sue-happy, I definitely think that the mom should sue the pants off of everyone who knew what was going on and chose to do nothing to rein in those horrific little monsters.

  • Spifftastic

    When I started reading the article I was prepared to get annoyed that parents were suing over some taunting and teasing. However, when it comes to stalking, harassment, and violating a protective order my opinion changes drastically. Whoever failed to arrest the brats when they repeatedly ignored the law should be sued. The school should have at the very least expelled the violent ones instead of forcing the victim out. Juvie exists to protect the world from these types of mini monsters.

  • https://www.facebook.com/neenee821 Denice Poseley-Blomberg

    It is sad that this 12 year old thought he had no other option but guess what parents be more involved with your children and make sure they know there is so much more out there the school and bullies. What happened to parenting these days!

  • https://www.facebook.com/neenee821 Denice Poseley-Blomberg

    It is sad that this 12 year old thought he had no other option but guess what parents be more involved with your children and make sure they know there is so much more out there the school and bullies. What happened to parenting these days!

  • https://www.facebook.com/michael.mchenry.718 Michael McHenry

    Bullies suck…but this kids problems were way deeper than bullying. His dad killed himself, and his mother tried to kill herself after she found him. This kids problems clearly started at a parental level way before he had been bullied. This is a gut wrenching story and I’m sure losing a child is about the most terrible thing i could think of. That doesn’t mean the bullies are at fault….it starts and ends with your parenting.

  • https://www.facebook.com/michael.mchenry.718 Michael McHenry

    Bullies suck…but this kids problems were way deeper than bullying. His dad killed himself, and his mother tried to kill herself after she found him. This kids problems clearly started at a parental level way before he had been bullied. This is a gut wrenching story and I’m sure losing a child is about the most terrible thing i could think of. That doesn’t mean the bullies are at fault….it starts and ends with your parenting.

  • techsupp0rt

    Anyone who refuses to teach their children basic human manners deserves to be hit in the pocket book for it. I hope more parents take this route, protection orders and lawsuits being the norm for this sort of thing would make parents a LOT more aware that what their little rotten crotchfruit is doing is NOT cute, and isn’t going to fly.

  • Vesper B

    I saw an interview with Joel’s mom on Univision last night. While I agree with Villains is lemons over the litigious qualities in society, I found her decision to sue to be well thought-out. She’s obviously still mourning her son (as evidenced by the many photos of the kid around the house) and wants some semblance of justice. The news station also got an interview with a friend of Joel’s who remembers Joel being bullied and pushed around.

    I’d also like to commend this woman for the restraint she and her family have shown. I would probably be in jail at the moment if I’d be in her shoes…or on the run.

  • https://www.facebook.com/Tombsmoker Jon Tombsmoker

    Bullies (from an ongoing issue) cornered my brother in a convenience store for over an hour before finally getting bored and leaving. My bro came home and told my dad who went out to find the bastards. He saw one in a laundromat so he went in and busted the Fuckers nose over a pinball machine. I’ll do the same. Don’t fuck with my family.

  • https://www.facebook.com/Tombsmoker Jon Tombsmoker

    Bullies (from an ongoing issue) cornered my brother in a convenience store for over an hour before finally getting bored and leaving. My bro came home and told my dad who went out to find the bastards. He saw one in a laundromat so he went in and busted the Fuckers nose over a pinball machine. I’ll do the same. Don’t fuck with my family.

  • tkaz

    A lawyer.
    Problem is bullying when WE were kids was not this brutal. We were taught to buck up & deal. So I think it’s very normal a parent would think it would blow over or the kids would move on. Maybe they would have…
    But the bullying epidemic, well, we have to look at both sides. It’s important kids are taught not to bully but it’s also important we instill self-confidence so they can withstand it.
    Pipes and protection orders are another story though. :(

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Couldn’t agree more, Morbid. Hitting an institution or individual in the wallet is often one of the more successful ways to enact change. I hope the suit is successful and the penalties leveled, hefty.

  • True

    Along with EVIL I agree as a society we are too sue-happy. When I first read she was going to sue, I was rolling my eyes thinking “Cash cow, here we come!” But by the time I got through the article, I have changed my mind. This was a beautiful child who never deserved any of the grief he got. No do-overs in this lifetime. Mom did all she could, and the meanness and hate won. This time. Is it any wonder the bullies are getting stronger and more mean spirited? Personally, I don’t think kids should be beat, but a few stripes from a leather belt would do them all some good. Juvie will only make it worse. Tell you what, if I got in that kind of trouble at school, fighting and such, I knew the belt was waiting for me when I got home. Kept me (almost) completely out of trouble in school!

    I know some don’t agree, but I’m not talking about half killing the kid. Five belt lashes across the rear end will make them think about causing pain to someone else.

  • Bladenukem

    Violence, it’s the only language bullies understand.

  • Bladenukem

    Suicide should never be an option. Ive always believed in violence as a solution to bullying, it’s the only language they understand, even though the school system will always punish those who strike back over those who strike first. Even so it sounds like that poor kid didn’t have that option, it would’ve been nice if he had an older brother or cousin that could’ve had his back. This is just a blasted tragedy.

  • Buffettgirl

    It’s about damn time! Good for Mom… kids don’t bully the way they used to. They are down right cruel and evil about it these days. Basically because parents aren’t allowed to discipline their little monsters anymore, the monsters are morphing into demonic hell-beasts that control the adults. It’s out of control and about time some sound-minded people started to fight back when they’ve done the right thing to no avail. Poor Joel… we pretend we’re creating a kinder, gentler society with all this “no spanking, use time-out” bullshit. We’re not. We’re creating a whole lot of indifferent, soulless cretins.

  • Cassy_Again

    The bullying was certainly this brutal in the 1970s where I was growing up. I spent half my life hiding from gangs of kids who would beat the hell out of us and steal our stuff any chance they had. And I was one of the popular kids. The bullies were kids from other schools nearby who didn’t even know us, that’s just what they did.

    I managed to find a way to stop it myself because there was no place to turn…one day I just cracked. Some girl walked up, said, “what the fuck are you looking at?” and pushed me for no reason whatsoever. I was 10 feet from my own front door playing with a ball while waiting for my cousin.

    I knocked the girl into the next century. My mother had to pull me off her. The girl started coming down to hang out and from then on they all left me alone.

    HOWEVER, it could just have likely ended with me being stabbed, or beaten into a coma.

    I think the big difference now is we have social media and it’s all available for public viewing.

  • Bladenukem

    Sounds like suicide runs pretty deep in that family

  • LuvsHorror

    So Joe has to change schools, not the bullying little monsters? Sounds fair. This was assault. Why weren’t they arrested? And the parents! Did they even care or try to stop their kids? I’m sure they are feeling all self righteous right now. Probably down playing it and claiming their little saints wouldn’t behave like that. You can’t count on parents teaching their kids, so I guess the schools have to do it, and start early. Teach them empathy and shame and regret.

  • JohnQknowitall

    Lawsuits are expensive as fuck. Some attorney must see a lot of merit here to have taken on the case. The city, the school system and the parents of the mean fucks will spend tons to defend themselves. My guess is that this is not a rich woman and so neither are the bullies… which means any collection of awards is dubious at best. The city and school system will no doubt settle, and yeah I there will be huge change. HUGE at least in New York City.

  • JohnQknowitall

    Well…. organizing the parents of other bullied children would be nice, but you have to have the temperament of someone who herds cats.

  • JohnQknowitall

    Bullying when I was a kid WAS horrible. I did the homework of bullies who hated my bullies.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    When I first started writing it. I was intending to report the story, then explain why I thought lawsuits like this were ridiculous… that was until I got all the details.

  • Malodorous

    Yeah, you know, I’m not too keen on the idea of holding parents criminally liable for their minor children’s crimes, but financially liable in civil suits? Totally. 100%.

  • techsupp0rt

    Having to have someone protect you just means you’re in even more danger the moment those people aren’t there to protect you. Fighting back physically either turns the victim into the criminal (stupid system), or ends up with that kid getting his ass handed to him by the bully or the person/people who might want to protect that kid. Teeny tiny kids who have trouble making friends aren’t going to suddenly become Batman after a few weeks of karate classes. They’re still going to get their asses kicked.

  • techsupp0rt

    Even if the parents of the little fucktards can’t ever pony up enough dough, being dragged through the filthy legal system should be enough to get them to wake the hell up.

  • JohnQknowitall

    I think they are now already awake. Hopefully the parents of other children who read about them will take their responsibilities seriously.

    I have said it before: violence is not tolerated in the workplace by adults so why should it be tolerated among children in the schoolyard?

  • MilfOf2

    Im sorry but if my boys ever bullied someone their asses would be fuckn welted and bright red for weeks! That is one thing i will never tolerate is My kids making others feel like shit. This world is already so shitty I will not lets my kids contribute to all the hatred.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Couldn’t possibly disagree more strongly.

    First of all, this is nothing my nearly 60-year-old father hasn’t described as having witnessed as a child, so if bullying was ever substantially friendlier, it sure wasn’t in our lifetimes. Secondarily, as a “no-spanking, use time-out bullshit” parent, I can boast a better behaved three-year-old than most people have ever seen. I know that because I’m told regularly, by friends and strangers alike. And my child has never incurred physical discipline of any kind. Now, how can that be? It’s because effective discipline has absolutely-fucking-nothing to do with the level of violence associated with it, and everything to do with consistency and follow-through. By your logic, beaten children would be little angels. Except they classically act out in school and lash out at other children and get poor grades and become promiscuous and are dramatically more likely to wind up on drugs or in jail… I think you see where I’m going with that.

    Lastly, violence among juveniles is down. Crime stats do paint the picture of a kinder, gentler society. Not much kinder and gentler, maybe, but shit doesn’t change overnight.

    An incident like this should not result in a knee-jerk call for more parents to hit their children.

  • LeaveMeBe

    WTF?

  • Buffettgirl

    So we agree to disagree. I got bullied a bit when I was a young kid, it was over stupid shit like having curly hair, or having an accent when we moved around. I didn’t get beaten, shoved, pushed or “pelted with sticks and pipes.” No one I knew EVER got bullied to that extent. This coming from schools in Oregon, Georgia and South Africa. I’m NOT, nor have I EVER advocated for BEATING children. I believe spanking to be different than abuse. I’ve seen the proof in my world that a pop to the diapered/Pull-up’d butt of a 3 year old is FAR more effective than struggling with 3 minute time outs. But I mean a pop, not a punch, not a whack, a pop. You are one of those people that find a spank to be violent. I am not. You’re right, it does have to do with consistency and follow through, but if the big threat is time-out, big deal. You had to spend x number of minutes in a corner. Did you think about what you did? Probably not at all. Have you decided not to do it again? Probably not. Over the course of a decade of nanny-ing my findings are that kids find time-out to be a JOKE. They laugh about it. As for your child being well behaved, that has more do to with your over-all parenting style than with the fact that you use time-out. You ARE the follow through type. MOST are not. By the time I was three my Mother swears that you could have put my at the dinner table of the Queen and I would have been a delight. Mom didn’t just spank she also grounded, took away things away (when we’d been warned that it was a consequence) and used a variety of tools for discipline. None of us have ended up in jail, wasted on drugs, or even remotely violent in any way shape or form. I’m NOT saying folks should run around hitting their kids wily-nily. I am saying that I don’t find a spank to be abusive, and in my experience, it’s been beneficial. Time out never has been, again, in MY experience.

  • Vesper B

    My kid’s two, but he’s showing much more compassion than these bullies! While he does smack (usually out of frustration or anger) he knows that it hurts. He’ll follow it up with a hug or something similar. Hell, he’s had a feud with my hell dog Miss Lucy since birth, but when she was in pain due to surgery, he was gently petting her.

    It isn’t easy but (shockingly!) I’ve always thought it was part of our jobs as parents to teach kindness and compassion.

  • 18th40

    Smile and wave..easier that way.

  • Kim

    I give mine the same speech every year before school starts.Public school is a choice and not your only option for an education.I will not force you to go to a place where you don’t feel safe or into an environment where your life is miserable every day.There are other ways: home school,school transfer etc.The thought of home schooling terrifies me(read DD every week kids and write me an essay: stupid things I will not do when I grow up) but would do it if I had to but phew,so far no takers.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    You’re making a number of assumptions, here.

    I don’t find spanking to be abusive (when spanking is, as defined, applied with an open hand, not a belt or a shoe or a switch). I simply find it to be generally unnecessary and less effective than non-physical alternatives when we’re comparing methods as you did, which is backed up by research. How many kids did you nanny? Probably not 2,500. ;)

    You’re right… there are lots of parents who are not follow-through types (I won’t say “most” – juvenile crime is down, drug use is down, teenage pregnancy is down – someone is doing something right). Which means that, for them, spanking won’t solve their problems either.

    Your personal experiences with things don’t define the world we’re living in. I wasn’t bullied at all when I was a kid. Does that mean bullying didn’t exist? Of course not. There has always been savage bullying. There is no evidence (again, “evidence”) to support the theory that bullying today is somehow more savage than it was in the past. Suicide rate among kids is down, which certainly doesn’t support the theory either.

    You made the very, very clear assertion that the world is worsening because of less spanking and more time outs. You were simply wrong. Statistically, the world is actually better, and spanking has been proven to cause problems when it is used more than rarely and over a long period of time. But, in doing so, you also ignorantly called out parents like myself, who have put a great deal of thought into formulating an effective discipline plan (that will never involve spanking), while suggesting that, if parents could just hit their kids, we wouldn’t be seeing this.

    Of course, good parenting involves an array of disciplinary measures, grounding and revoking privileges being two good ones. But if you’re going to compare spanking to time-outs on a strictly one-to-one basis, I’ll stick with the time outs.

  • Buffettgirl

    Athena – we BOTH know that I could, given the time find plenty of data to support what I’ve said. I’m not going to do that. I didn’t speak of violence with regards to spanking, you did. That implies you find it violent, and it also implies you find people like me that think it’s an effective tool to be violent. Since I can only speak to my experiences and how they have shaped me, you saying that I have IGNORANTLY done anything is, in my opinion, way out of line. Not to mention it appears as thought you don’t believe that I’ve ALSO put a great deal of thought into how I discipline a child. If I have to preface everything I say on here with “in my experience” then there is not point in saying anything is there? I’ve nanny’d for 17 children (some were multiples in the same house, some were more of a “keep an eye on the kids” situation and a couple were for seriously ill kids that needed constant attention – and for a time I had three families that I nanny’d for at once) That’s NOT including the nieces and nephews that at times I was raising. It has been MY experience that time out is a crock of shit. We can debate it all night long, you can throw your empirical data at me all day long, it does not change the facts of MY life and MY experiences. You say that juvenile crime is down, but that doesn’t explain why every teacher I know from my 70+ year old taught special ed for decades Step Mom on down to the neighbor lady teacher that’s been doing it for only three years all questioning why kids today are so much more ill-behaved and violent than they used to be. Maybe it’s the result of having grown up in mostly affluent neighborhoods, and that it’s only gotten worse here? I don’t know. I only know that in my town, and in my world it is MUCH worse than it ever was when I was a kid. When I was a kid, being rude or disrespectful to an adult was pretty much tantamount to committing murder. It just wasn’t done. Now kids pop off to teachers with little fear of being called out on it. They’ll tell an adult to “Fuck Off” if they’re asked to step aside so a grocery cart can be gotten through an aisle. They think it’s perfectly acceptable to say or do whatever they want whenever they want. Since WHEN did it become acceptable to disrespect an adult when you haven’t even reached voting age? Since when did it become OK to slash your teacher’s tires when you fail a test, as happened at the middle school down the road from me this past spring? That’s the kind of shit I mean. Stuff that would have never crossed the minds of the kids I was in middle school with, it’s violent and disrespectful with NO consequences. You keep saying that I’m “suggesting” that all would be well if parents could just “hit” their kids. That doesn’t paint too kind of a picture of me, when I’ve gone out of my way to point out that there is a difference between SPANKING and being ABUSIVE. Hitting is abusive, spanking is NOT. I think it’s great that time-outs work for you and your child. I have one child that they were effective on, my second niece, time-out was devastating for her, but not for any one of the other kids in my world. Especially the little sister of the one it worked for, she would, from the age of 18 or so months on laugh and say “No big deal Auntie Rie!” because she knew it was NOTHING but some wasted time for her. My main point, in MY experience, the little sting of a spank is FAR more effective than a kid laughing in a corner about being able to play in two minutes because after all, it’s “No big deal Auntie Rie!”

  • Guest

    so instead of mannin’ up and cracking on the bullies that crapped on you for some period, you let lose on a girl? your awesome.

  • MilfOf2

    My son is 3 and going thru terrible 3s but he is still sweeter then ever and a little emotional. He has empathy for everyone. Hope my 4 month old is the same

  • JohnQknowitall

    Getting something on television is a hurdle. You really have to have a contact to get to the right person AND be compelling or, and I do not advise this, get a gun and take matters into your own hands… but that defeats the purpose.

  • JohnQknowitall

    This might be a good start for parents of bullied children:

    http://www.bullypolice.org/

  • Lovingmama

    Agreed. I don’t use any physical disapline on my 5 or 2 year old and they’re both very well behaved. I did spank my older son when he was a child and he gives me more stress than I ever believed I could handle now that he’s a teen. The thing is if you’re quick to spank you may then realize perhaps the situation with the kids wasn’t what you originally believed and you can’t take it back. If you put them in time out and realize you may be being too harsh you can ease up. I also have two nephews that stay with me OFTEN who initially came to my house out of control but with only time out and you’re staying right by me if you can’t behave it only took a few nights at my house before they were quick to listen and do what’s asked. I’m not 100% against spanking and don’t judge those that discipline effectively/correctly but most parents I know that spank do it out of anger and frustration and seldom are consistent leading to ineffective disapline and a child that feels he has been wronged. Also it seems the kids I know tend to hit other children where as my children who have never been physically disaplined don’t.

  • weneedhelpnow

    Charge the parents. MAKE them take responsibility for their demon spawn.

  • Jessie

    There were a lot of failures here, yes. Ultimately you have to teach your children about the filth of society and HOPE that they will learn to ignore a**holes who are probably miserable in their own homes and taking it out on you. I do agree with making parents of shitheads pay up… Money will get EVERYONE’s attention!

  • Mr.CustodialArts

    Sounds like that kid was doomed from the womb-the product of two parents with mental issues…

  • Jessie

    Right? Parents failed big time.

  • Mr.CustodialArts

    Sounds like EVERYBODY failed…

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    No, we don’t both know that. I’ve looked. And I dare you to try. I’m talking actual research, not some random “expert’s” opinion. You won’t find it. Because it doesn’t exist. Because time outs work when they’re a part of a comprehensive parenting plan, which is precisely why I took issue with your suggestion that time outs are to blame for bullies.

    I get it; it’s your opinion, and no, I wouldn’t expect your or anyone to qualify it every time. I would only ask that you try to avoid framing as fact.

    Lastly, I was not out of line. When a person makes false statement after false statement based solely on personal experience as you did, that’s pretty much the definition of ignorance. It’s not a slur, it’s simply the state of not knowing.

  • tkaz

    Where the hell did you guys grow up?? I never experienced bullying like this.
    I think most of my bullying was from fellow girls so it was all psychological. But it was SMART psychological….they didn’t come out & say “you’re worthless”, but you definitely felt that way. But never enough to commit suicide, know what I mean?

  • JohnQknowitall

    I grew up in a pretty decent area, but I am also a male… and just for the record I never attempted suicide. I am sure living in a neighborhood and attending school with manipulative bitches is better. o_0

  • Alucard_the_last

    Good for them. Lawsuits are the only thing that is going to stop bullying. I study serial killers and most were abused by family, school student or both. It is very serious. Even those who don’t go onto kill (most of them) grow up with mental problems. I tried to kill myself when I was 14 and everyone sat around and couldn’t comprehend why I would do so. After 3 solid years of bullying, I was denied an education and no one cared. Not one teacher came to my defense. My parents were too stupid to know what was going on and even more stupid for not filing a lawsuit.

  • Buffettgirl

    So we’re back where we started when I said we agree to disagree…

  • Alucard_the_last

    Just because you never experienced ‘bullying like this” doesn’t mean it doesn’t go on. Since you never experience the holocaust or some communist gulag doesn’t mean they didn’t exist either. My teenaged years were stolen. When I did go to college, I had a 6th grade reading and math levels. I had to take many classes before I could actually take a real college course. This cost me thousands of dollars.

  • Jessica Stewart

    I’m just gonna shout out a random topic here. I think one of the best physical educations we can give our children is martial arts and/or yoga of some kind. Call it something else if you have to, to placate the parents that don’t want their kids being taught “forrin’ deevil whays”. That way you can teach self-defense, self-control self-confidence and self-awareness. Think about if Joel had been able to defend himself, even as a slight, and fragile young man. What if the bullies had been given a means to act out in a healthy way? It’s just sad to see an education system built on outdated principles that assists in creating problems like this. Lets arm our kids with the knowledge and ability to defend themselves and resolve these problems, or at least begin to.

  • Jessica Stewart

    Spanking leads to fetishes, lol

  • Jessica Stewart

    You will, however, make it on to TV at that point.

  • Jessica Stewart

    There’s another great option that’s in between home schooling and Public school. They have public education on line now: http://www.k12.com/schools-programs/online-public-schools or http://www.connectionsacademy.com/home.aspx Just in case you ever get hit up by the kids :) When I was in middle school we had home-schooled kids that came just for group activities too, like band or sports.

  • WarriorArtemis

    This shit terrifies me because my oldest son is small for his age and is autistic, he gets bullied but so far I have been able to stop it but this year he moves into middle school and I know kids get more brutal as they get older. The poor mother and her baby…I’d definitely lose my shit if this happened to one of my kids.

  • WarriorArtemis

    I was bullied the whole time I was in school. At first it was because it was just my mom as a single parent and we were poor as hell. Then as my mom became successful and had a lot of money it was because I was the nerdy kid going to the middle school or the high school from the elementary school or middle school.

    I finally lost my shit one day because I used to hang out with one other smart kid and we would eat lunch away from everyone on the side of the building. one of the popular kids decided to try and kick us out but I was tired of being pushed around and said no. The girl slapped me across the face and I commenced to wooping her ass. I was expelled and my perfect record tarnished but I never was bullied again.

    I’m sure it could have been handled a better way which is what I try to teach my son but kids are mean little shits and their parents are the ones that should be teaching them not to bully others…however it doesn’t help much when the parents are bullies themselves.

  • WarriorArtemis

    I’m pretty sure that is a girl…

  • JohnQknowitall

    And probably this blog too.

  • Kim

    OK thanks,I breathe a sigh of relief every year they go back.Just don’t see myself as capable of teaching especially since I work 3 12-14 hour shifts,take 4 days off and my husband works 12 hour days every day.It would be more like no structure,play video games all day,watch you tube self school.

  • http://mysticwicks.com/ Kaylara

    Yes. it will. Just not in the way that you’re thinking. There have been studies that have shown that children who receive corporal punishment from their parents/guardians are *more* likely to behave violently.

  • Aussie Sabbath

    I think Bladenukem is trying to say that this family doesn’t have a history of having good coping mechanisms. The kid’s dad killed himself, and the kid killed himself.

  • tkaz

    Never said it didn’t exist.

  • 18th40

    Suicide, by it’s very nature..refuses to run deep anywhere.

  • Jessie

    And the mom tried to kill herself when she found her son!

  • True

    I’ve never been violent once in my life. None of the people my age I went to school with did either. We knew the parent was the ultimate authority. The buck stopped right there. We were much less likely to continue on with anything we weren’t supposed to do. I’m not saying you’re wrong, just my generation learned respect. This generation is contemptuous of anyone in authority. Not all of them, but a goodly portion. They didn’t get spanked when they needed it. The criminal element, starting at the age of 5 sometimes, are extremely violent. So I don’t hold much credence with that “theory”.

  • Evan

    i wonder what their problem was with Joel? Seems like it would be easier to pick on another kid once they have a protection order n shit.

  • Evan

    Imagine if the mother HAD killed herself. Then it would have been Dad, Mom and Kiddo all killing themselves. Well I guess they’d all be in hell together. if you believe in that sort of thing.

  • itsknotme

    If my kid was being bullied, I’d:

    - keep him or her out of school for three days, then
    - I’d ask the police to handcuff my child and bring him or her to school, now
    - I’d have the police lock my child to his or her desk giving the teacher the key, and finally
    - I’d have the teacher announce that my child almost killed a neighbor bully with an ax, but thankfully, the doctors were able to reattach one of his arms, so he can eat by himself, …

    At this point, the parents of the bullying kids will ask for their children to be moved to another class/school.

  • https://www.facebook.com/vicki.trosclair Vicki Trosclair

    i really hope the family can get clouser out of this

  • Guest

    You do whatever needs to be done..if suing is the only option the it needs to be done. The parents raised these bullies to be animals so make them pay with everything they have. They should be thankful they still have sons to say good morning to everyday…even if they are horrible human beings. The boy was obviously fragile and like animals they moved in for the kill.

  • Jill D.

    You do whatever needs to be done..if suing is the only option the it
    needs to be done. The parents raised these bullies to be animals so make
    them pay with everything they have. They should be thankful they still
    have sons to say good morning to everyday…even if they are horrible
    human beings. The boy was obviously fragile and like animals they moved
    in for the kill. Horrible :(

  • True

    Oh, honey. He’s only 3. I hope against hope this works for you!! I do not condone beating children. Never will. But when they’re that out of control, sometimes you have to get their attention to get your point across. A spanking drives the point home that they cannot continue with bullying and get away with it. If they’re spanked every day, that’s not going to do a thing to make them behave. But a once in a great while butt spankin’, and they will remember it.

    Sometimes with SOME kids, you have to give them what they gave to the victim. Then they will know how it feels. Taking away their cell phone for a day does nothing. I’m talking about the kids who would torture a smaller younger child day after day. We used to call them incorrigible. Everyone has their parents working and there’s no one home with the kids when they get out of school. Idle hands are the devil’s workshop. They’re not being parented anymore and that’s a huge factor here.

  • Abroad

    I was a girl and grew up in “nice” middle-class suburbs. I was bullied every day at school and i considered suicide by running my bicycle in front of a car on my way home from school many a time. What stopped me was the knowledge that it would hurt people who I loved and who cared for me, and that the bullies would not be much bothered. (I never considered the poor drivers. They were lucky I have great parents!)

  • True

    I got that belt used on me plenty. And I behaved. I had manners and treated other people with respect. I never bullied anyone. I raised my child to be the same way and gave only one spanking her whole growing up life. She was the most rebellious creature I’d ever seen. She had a good home life, I tried to balance strict and lenient. Depended on the situation. She had time outs with no result. So I think it just depends on the child. We managed, and she’s grown with a 5 year old of her own. Paybacks are hell. LOL The little one is very compassionate and first to say she’s sorry and give hugs if she’s been in a playmate spat. And when she was out of control, she got a swat. Now all she needs is to be talked to. Most of all she’s got respect.

  • Abroad

    In my experience they get stronger as they grow older, but more subtle about the bullying and perhaps also a bit more inhibited. I would say it is *less* likely to be physical the older one gets.

  • TinyCyborg

    Its been a really rough week for me. Finally realized just how rough when I read this, and normally can read this site everyday and just move on while muttering “fucking planet, hope it all burns…” and instead I started weeping at the “… cut down her son’s body with the same knife she then used to stab herself with.” and started thinking about finding those little fuckers (because I live in NYC) and killing them, brutally.

  • abbys_mom

    The documentary “Bully” showed a good example of how terribly schools handle bullying. I’m not usually a sue-happy kind of supporter, but I hope this family wins in this case.

  • rpgmomma8404

    I was bullied big time all throughout my time in school. My family lived as poor although my dad had a decent paying job (he has a drug and gambling problem, would spend all his money either on drugs or at the casino). I would also get bullied by my dad at home too. I was overweight, socially awkward, and have a learning disability. So, it was almost like I was a poster child of a kid who would just get bullied. I was also a very sensitive child on top of it (bullies eat that shit up). It was really bad in grade school and middle school. Things seemed to get a little bit better my last two years of high school but I still had issues with people.

  • JohnQknowitall

    I considered suicide due to bullying and whatever the fuck I could dwell on (listen to Radiohead’s Creep). The only things things that kept me from suicide were being cowardice and the tiniest inkling that things would get better. I got to college and people got my jokes, understood my personality, thought I was attractive and had sex with me. I am glad I was and am a coward.

  • JohnQknowitall

    I don’t know that for a fact, but I would bet that a sincere and thoughtful (non-pedophile) adult giving “loving” attention to a bully could make all the difference. To some extent I think it is a cry for recognition of any kind possible.

  • JohnQknowitall

    I think the first terrible act as a civil suit to the parents is fine, but the second? The threat of a little jail time (whether it ever materializes or not) might wake up a lot of aloof parents. AND I will add this… I have no children and I love that some of my tax dollars go to educate other people’s children – love it to no end, no better way to spend money – but when their children are disrespectful of my labors and the ambitions of their fellow students? Home skool them baby (like dey doos in Texas) or make the parents send the kids to private school or paid public night school on their dime and not mine or yours.

  • AliceinChainsman =]

    been down that road.. til li threw a desk at the bully one year.. then they avoided me n called me crazy

  • Leasha

    The bullies need to be charged with his murder. Being taunted about a parent who committed suicide is the worst. I’m 23 and I STILL get those low blows. It’s the cruelest psychological torture ever. That poor boy. I understand why he did it, having attempt myself. It’s not so much they want to die as it’s the only way to make the pain stop, to get away from it all. May he rest in paradise and I hope his mother/family finds some peace, somehow.

  • sherrdbw

    If criminal charges are for some reason brought against those little fucks, they’ll probably only get six months probation and a stern talking to by their wonderful parents.

  • Bladenukem

    Thank you Aussie.

  • FrikkenFrak

    Poor little angel.

    This story is sickening. : (

  • Delaney3030

    I guess home schooling is all I can think of.

  • https://www.facebook.com/bridget.herron Bridget Herron

    This story broke my heart.

  • iueras

    Nah, Cassy must be short for Casanova. LOL

  • iueras

    These “studies” are always sponsored by an organization with an axe to grind. Reality has proven the exact opposite. We listened to you PC people and stopped spanking. The kids got worse, juvenile crime went up. We listened to you PC people and went all “supportive” and “caring”. The little manipulative bastards just used this system to their advantage. And kids got worse and juvenile crime went up.

    Why is it that 9/10 times, whenever a society enacts some “feel-good” policy that is espoused by the bleeding hearts and the “my little darling would never” groups, things get worse?

  • iueras

    One good ass whooping from your big brother solves more problems than you think. Or at least it did for my little bro. Especially when I told them that if they ever touched him again I’d fucking kill them. After the beating, they weren’t inclined to argue. (Not that I would have, but THEY didn’t know that).

  • iueras

    Same here. I got bullied most of my school career (for some reason, being smart in school is a BAD THING), got in one fist fight, but it was mostly just the usual crap you think of when you think of bullies. Not once, no matter how mean, did anyone in my schools (any of the 4 I went to between kindergarten and graduation) take fucking PIPES and ROCKS and beat other kids with them. They never pulled knives, they never pulled guns. They didn’t jump a guy 3-4 on one and break his bones. If there WAS a fight, it was one on one. Maybe 2 on 2 if someone’s friend jumped in. All of which happens regularly nowadays with kids from grade 12 all the way down to kindergarten.

    If you honestly think that kids haven’t gotten worse, you have your head in the sand. And the REMARKABLE climb in the ease of picking up a weapon or jumping a kid and beating him till bones break just HAPPENS to have gotten worse from the MOMENT we started with this PC no spanking, timeout (or better yet, just a “talking” to) BS.

    Why is this? Because MOST kids (ones that don’t belong to people trying to make a point) will, as soon as they find out that the punishment is toothless, proceed to do whatever they want because they KNOW there will be no worse consequences than a talking to.

    This is reflected not only in the rise in bad behavior and bullying in schools, but the alarming trend of mobs of kids ATTACKING adults. They only do this because they have known their whole lives that NO ONE will do anything to stop them.

  • iueras

    What amazes me is how often the REALITY of this so called “research” is that it was carefully crafted and controlled, and in the real world it seems to have the OPPOSITE effect. But I guess if you keep repeating that the research shows it, it may become true in defiance of what has actually happened in the real world. But probably not.

  • iueras

    Imagine if those same bullies that were already bigger and meaner had had the benefit of the same training. Another good idea that just doesn’t work in the real world.

  • iueras

    Did you just seriously say that that child is in hell now?

  • iueras

    Hahaha nice. Very nice indeed. I can attest to the fact that when people think you are nuts they leave you alone, even the ones 3 times your size. I had to get my rep built up all by myself, woulda been a lot easier with parent complicity and a police escort. :D

  • iueras

    Can’t be murder, unfortunately. But some of the torture laws might be twisted to fit this case. I mean, the kid killed himself. It takes some serious abuse for a long time to make someone do that.

  • Evan

    well if you believe suicide means you go to hell – then thats where the 12 year old is, yeah. I’m a troll what do you want from me?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Except… juvenile crime nearly everywhere in the country has seen extensive downward trends, so… that kind of contradicts your theory.

    The spike in juvenile crime experienced throughout the 90s is directly tied to gang violence, which doesn’t get solved with spanking. Actually, it could be argued that the whoopin’ often employed in low-income households contributes to those children turning into violent teens.

    I generally agree with you on “feel good” policies. But this isn’t one of those. It’s basic logic. If you use physical punishment to control a child’s behavior, that child is more likely to learn to control the behavior of others that way. Not to mention when coupled with the angst and resentment a frequently smacked child will often feel.

    There are plenty of other perfectly good disciplinary tactics than don’t involve hitting someone.

  • Jessica Stewart

    If bullying were simply a case of “bigger and meaner” you’d be correct, If martial arts were based solely around who is the largest opponent you would also be correct, neither of those it true. Bullying is often due to problems the child is having at home, at school or both. I was bullied in grade school and I was taller than everyone in my class except one boy, and he wasn’t the one bullying me. Part of the point of teaching children self awareness is so that they learn to interact with others in a positive manner. Martial arts are not so they can just beat each other up more effectively, that would be stupid, just throwing fuel on the fire. It’s to get that excess energy out and teach self calming techniques, as well as fostering positive resolution and camaraderie.

  • WarriorArtemis

    Lol yeah cause we know Casanova put the beat down on his ladies lol -_-

  • Buffettgirl

    My guess would be that the parameters of the research have changed over the past few decades, which would explain why it smacks us in the face everyday how rotten and rude kids are getting, yet the research claims it isn’t true. I think I’ll go with my lyin’ eyes on this one… My 18 year old niece was sexually assaulted in junior high (she has LARGE breasts and is a sweet, naive kid at heart) one of the boys in her class walked right up to her and tweaked and massaged her breasts in the cafeteria at lunch time in front of the whole school. The school did NOTHING about it, they didn’t want to involve police and break their “perfect record for the year” on the second to last day of school. When my sister called the police herself she was told that it was a school matter… That’s what I mean about parameters changing.

  • iueras

    I understand what you were trying to get at. And I also understood the working off of energy and positive feedback and all that. But here are a few unfortunate facts about martial arts:

    For a smaller person to effectively defend against a bigger consistently, they need years (at least one or 2) of training. And if the opponent has the same training, they are right back to square one except that now their opponent can cause SERIOUS harm. It is just a plain fact that if two people with equal fighting training clash, the winner is 9/10 the stronger one, or the one with more reach (read: bigger). The smaller may occasionally be able to win, but that will be rare and due generally to superior speed AND intelligence. He will have to land many times more blows on his opponent than the bigger guy will in order to win.

    Martial arts as a positive focus only works if you are already not the type to bully. Joel would not have misused it. The kids bullying most assuredly would have. The fact that they are the bullies pretty much automatically makes them the meaner. And if they personally aren’t bigger, they will bring bully friends.

    And the dream that “most bullies are only bullies because of home life and we can save them if we just show them love” only works in Hollywood. In real life, while there are undoubtedly some who so it because of home factors, most bullies do it because they LIKE it. They are typically bigger, meaner, and like abusing that dominance. They tend to be cowards, which is why you find them in packs or only assaulting those smaller and weaker.

    Putting martial arts into the hands of someone like that would be a fatal mistake. If you want your smaller child to be able to defend themselves, by all means enroll them. Martial Arts are a GOOD thing for those not predisposed to beat the crap out of anyone they can just BECAUSE they can now. But letting these same kids that are already hyperaggressive learn a fighting school is not and will never be a good idea.

    Also, and I hate to say this, cause I’m sure SOMEONE will call me sexist and deny that a difference exists, but bullying between boys is VERY different than bullying between girls, and that is very different than bullying between a boy and a girl or vice versa. The boys tend to be very much more physically abusive towards other guys, and will tend towards spoken or prank-style bullying against a girl. This is mainly due to the fact that the loss of face that comes with hitting a girl would seriously damage the bully’s reputation and thus his ability to keep his dominant position.

    So, while the martial arts may be a good idea for girls (who tend to not get physical with each other till later than boys) and the boys being picked on, teaching global martial arts classes to a boy that is ALREADY bullying will only make it much worse for everyone.

  • iueras

    What about all the “flash mobs” in the last few years that basically rob stores at will? They are made up of nothing BUT kids, from as young as 9 up to 18. What about all the video evidence of teens and younger beating people to death, robbing them, breaking other kids bones, stealing cars, breaking and entering, etc.? Teens taking over places of business because everyone, including the business owner, is too scared of them to throw them out? This is all on the rise since 2005ish, maybe earlier. And it’s not just in the States. Mobs of kids in the UK, for instance, beat the hell out of a guy who told a girl to put her trash in the trashcan. The teens there have more weapons than the cops.

    Most of the crap I see kids pull nowadays seems to me to stem directly from a complete lack of respect for any adult (or authority of any kind) and a knowledge that they will not face any consequences (or minor ones, at best)… at least until some cop shoots them, the guy the are trying to rob kills them, or they get arrested on criminal charges. They THINK they are immune to consequences because that is what parents and society have taught them by being so “hands-off”. When they run up against the law, or someone that is not going to back down from the punks, they find out the (sometimes VERY) hard way they were wrong.

    Seems a few spankings is a small price to pay to avoid all this.

  • iueras

    Just that.

  • Jessica Stewart

    I was not bullied by girls, I was bullied by a pair of boys for 5 years before a restraining order was finally placed on them. It is sexist to assume that only boys get beat up.

  • iueras

    Yup. Also, modern kids KNOW that if you lay a hand on them (deserved or no) they can call CPS and have you arrested. Couple that (which effectively means no discipline at home) with the kind of self-serving bureaucracy we have in schools and police departments, season with a healthy dash of finger pointing and the only wonder is that they haven’t all risen up and murdered us in our sleep. (That last is serious rhetoric, I know, but you should understand my poit regardless)

    A good friend of mine, who is a loving father of a wonderful little girl, almost got arrested the other day here. He had her with him and went to Wal-Mart. She is 5 years old. Well, they got inside. She saw something, pulled her hand out of his and took off RUNNING across walmart. He ran after but lost sight. He searched the store frantically for 20 minutes. He had the front desk call her to the front… nothing. He was getting absolutely frantic at this point, and let me tell you, a grown man 200+ crying is not a pretty sight. Well, he finally found her. She had gone to the arcade (which he checked) and hidden behind some machines. He proceeded to whoop her little ass in Wal-Mart for running away like that.

    Imagine his surprise when he takes her out to the car and finds the store cops waiting on him. Someone complained he was spanking her in the store, the store called the on duty they have around, he called in backup. They took her from him at his vehicle. Handcuffed him, searched the car (dude has never drank or smoked or done drugs in his life. He is a fireman and first responder) and then the cop made this little girl pull her dress up and take off her panties (while the father was handcuffed right there) to check for bruises. Of course there were none, since he wasn’t trying to abuse her, he was trying to teach her not to run off and get kidnapped.

    What the cop did to her made her cry WAY more than the spanking she justly got for running off across a 1/4 mile long store. In this case, they did not arrest him but they were very clear that they were doing him a favor by not having CPS take the child and arrest him. That is absolutely ridiculous. Oh, and as a fun aside… she has never run away from him in a store again, but she cringes from anyone in a police or similar outfit now and sometimes starts crying (she is pretty body shy as far as kids that age go and did NOT enjoy being made to take her underwear off for a stranger in public). But spanking is SO much worse than kidnapping or what happened when the cops got involved, right, no-spanking people?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    Crime rates are LOWER than when spanking was more widely accepted. There’s no direct correlation there, but it defies your opinion that more hitting equals less crime and that less hitting equals more crime.

    Furthermore, corporal punishment is still widely used in lower socio-economic strata, where a majority of criminals come from… again contradicting your theory.

    Are you in the UK? Because I can’t really speak to the crime rates there without doing a little research. But I can’t emphasize more: Juvenile crime rates in the U.S. are DOWN, despite the decrease in popularity of corporal punishment.

  • Buffettgirl

    Poor little one! I would be mortified to this day if that had happened to me at 5, and it’s been 38 years since I was 5. I feel horrible for her Daddy too. What a nightmare. They should have at the very least taken her someplace other than the damn parking lot to inspect her little bum. Damn. That is just awful, but it is a CLEAR indicator of where this world is going. Keep you hands off of the little monsters, use your words and then shake your head in utter confusion 10 years later when they’ve killed some grandmother for fun… My theory is this – if it stings a little then it’s made an impact. If your biggest consequence is that you have your face in a corner for a few minutes NOTHING is truly learned other than sometimes, if you screw up, you have to look at a wall… BIG DAMN DEAL! ;)

  • iueras

    You never answered anything about the flash mobs and the rise of teen mob violence in the last 5 years or so. Or the teen mob beatings. Or the teens that beat the marine almost to death the other day. Or the teens that DID beat the 88 year old to death the other day. Or the kids that beat that kid on the bus until he had 2 black eyes, a concussion, and broken arm. That particular one was because the kid didn’t wanna buy drugs from them.

    Just because the conviction or arrest rate is down does not mean the violence is down. Most kids involved with these mobs never get arrested. that alone will seriously skew the statistics. Not to mention the fact that most juvenile record are sealed and/or expunged and will never be made available to anyone, not even the crime statistics places. The only juvenile crime statistics that are legally available to ANYONE are admission rates to juvenile facilities and crimes so heinous they were charged as an adult and/or the sentence carried into adulthood and so could not be sealed.

    I can point you toward enough videos of either the child perpetrators in action or interview with their victims you could watch them for a month and not see them all. And that’s just from the last year or 2. Anyone who thinks that juvenile violence is down either lives in a VERY privileged area or has their head in the sand. The sheer QUANTITY might be down — we can’t be sure because of the aforementioned closed courtrooms, redacted names, sealed and expunged records and the fact that you CANNOT get juvenile records unless you are the person in question or his attorney — but even if quantity is down the scale of the crimes are WAY up. It used to be things like loitering or graffiti, vandalism, or disturbing the peace… now it is robbery, rape, and murder instead.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    …you say without a single shred of evidence. Point me to something legitimate that asserts that the level of violence is up. And we are able to gauge that pretty well considering that many teens charged with violent crimes are charges as adults.

    What I see you doing is taking a media trend and interpreting it as a fact. Just because the media is reporting these assaults more does NOT mean they’re happening more. I believe you are jumping to conclusions, here.

    I live in Seattle. I’m neither privileged nor is my head in the sand. I watch local and national news daily, both before and after work. I research CONSTANTLY. I’ve got friends and relatives in law enforcement and the justice system. I just don’t see what you think you’re seeing.

    Furthermore, drug use and pregnancy is down among teens. It makes absolutely no sense that, as a group, they’re getting more responsible in two areas of their lives but less responsible in another. All the statistics put together point to a generation of teens that is better than mine was, and certainly better than the one before that.

  • iueras

    The “media” is not reporting these assaults more, or at all really. They are coming from eyewitnesses who filmed it, or the victims speaking out.

    And there are thousands of them. A 5 second search on YouTube alone shows (in indisputable video form) more extremely violent incidents involving teens and younger who think they can get away with anything than I could watch in a month 24/7. And thats one place, and ONLY the incidents that happened to both filmed AND uploaded and then left instead of being

    You should know by now that the media only reports the cases that garner the most viewers or can spark the biggest riots. They have no interest in truth or fair reporting, only ratings and money. So I take anything I hear in “the media” with a grain of salt.

    And if your friends or relatives say they know anything concrete (not anecdotal) about the juvenile crime rate, they are either breaking the law digging through sealed records or using very old data. Let me repeat this again: You (as in me, you, your friends, your relatives, unless DIRECTLY involved with the case, the NCIC, the FBI Criminal Database, the DoJ crime statistics people) CANNOT view these records. As far as the system is concerned, once the punishment is over, the incident never happened (except in the cases I outlined above where the punishment carries into legal adulthood). Therefore there are no concrete statistics. Only rates of admission to juvenile detention centers and group homes (although the latter usually falls under the purview of CPS and is sealed immediately), and crimes that the punishment extended through adulthood for (and even then, a lot of times those juvenile into adulthood punishments wind up on record as adult, not juvenile, crime).

    The same privacy laws that allow these records to be sealed and/or expunged from a juvenile’s record prevent ANYONE except the person involved, the person’s attorney, and the judge you and your attorney are petitioning for access to see the record. And if it was expunged, not even the person arrested can see it. It is completely gone, never existed as far as any database is concerned.

    Couple that with the fact that a lot of states automatically expunge juvenile records upon reaching majority, and those that don’t can get it done with a phone call, and you begin to see why using official government statistics as a basis for you argument is a bad idea. Their own laws prevent juvenile crime statistics from ever being accurate.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    “What I see you doing is taking a media trend and interpreting it as a fact.”

    Unfortunately, that is a very common practice in this day and age of 24 hour news.

    I guess people are quick to forget the Satanic Panic or “wilding”, the latter being the ’80s version of today’s flash mobs. The news media LOVES violent “trends” and, almost as much as me, using them to scare the shit out of you.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    I understand the shortcomings regarding the reporting quite well. However, they can still establish trends, and these trends coincide with other behavioral trends.

    If you want to ignore the picture that these trends paint when they collaborate in favor of YouTube, be my guest. But, from a methodological standpoint, I cannot disregard compiled data in favor of what, statistically, amounts to nothing more than an uptick in isolated instances.

  • iueras

    My biggest problem when dealing with compiled data like that is you
    have NO idea the methodology they used, NO idea where the data actually
    came from, NO real idea what internal metrics they used when evaluating
    and interpreting the data, and NO real way to verify any of it against the sources. Does that make any sense?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    I was born in the 80s, so I didn’t know about them to begin with. But now that I do, I’m totally filing that away for future use. :)

  • iueras

    But thats the thing… I haven’t seen any reports on these flash mobs in the media. There were like 2 that actual news outlets carried, spread pretty far in both time and space. Only uploaded videos. And after watching the unedited cameraphone footage of what they are doing, I can safely say that these kids are WAY scarier than the ones in the 80′s. AFAIK, the Satanic Panic was entirely manufactured with perhaps ONE actual group involved, and the wildings never actually invaded a department store with 60 other kids and stripped it bare, or started riots in the streets, or started mass group beatings of random people. I am going by my admittedly faulty memory on that, though.

    On an unrelated note, I just saw the 60′s style “I was Morbid’s Sex Slave” poster and choked myself laughing.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    No?

    I like you. But you’re gonna have to google harder than that. ;)

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Because of the site, I guess I just read too much news. I can’t go a week without seeing a “flash mob” story being reported – good or bad. I’m on major and local news sites, as well as all of the news link sites (Fark, Reddit) and video related sites (Youtube, LiveLeak, and even World Star). Flash mob related stuff *is* being reported.

    But even if I weren’t looking at statistics, I just haven’t seen a steady rise in anything – merely spikes in crime trends like evil pit bulls, bath salt zombies, or, in this case, teenage flash mobs.

    Glad you like the poster. I laughed while making it, although Jaded said I was stupid when I showed it to her. :P

  • iueras

    Heh thanks for the link. The stats are actually fairly level. there was a decnetly large apparent drop in total cases in 2010, but it had heald fairly steady for a decade before that.

    And, just to quote from the report itself: “The national estimates presented in the Juvenile Court Statistics reports were generated with data from a large nonprobability sample of juvenile courts. Consequently, statistical confidence in the estimates cannot be mathematically determined.”

    But seriously, thanks for the link. I am going to grab the spreadsheet and take a look at the raw data later.

  • iueras

    Well… youTube is where I saw most of them. But I don’t really consider them a news outlet for many reasons. When I said media outlets I meant I only saw a couple videos on the tube that were from tv stations. The rest looked to be all raw footage from whoever was there at the time. I did see a reference to flash mobs recently on Faux news but that’s not news, that’s just propaganda disguised as news (like most of the 24h cable news stations — don’t worry, I insult them all equally. I’m not a bigot. :D It’s just Fox news has such an easily satirized name. I guess I should stop going for the lowhanging fruit.).

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/ Athena

    lol. You don’t have to quote the source for me. I read it, too, you know. :P

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    I guess that over the years, especially with the noticeable bias in mainstream media, I have categorized Youtube, LiveLeak and the rest of them as a form of news… citizen journalism, if you will.

  • iueras

    Sorry. Often people miss those kind of things when looking at charts. And it was in an odd spot on the page, sandwiched in between like that.

  • iueras

    Yeah, pretty much. Assuming people like Kimmel don’t start a trend to the point you can’t tell whats real from what’s fake anymore, it seems like you can get a somewhat unbiased idea what is going on from watching the videos people have uploaded of newsworthy stuff. Just don’t read the comments (if you value your sanity).

    To me, a news outlet is a mouthpiece for the interests of the corporations that own the stations. Especially the 24h cable “news” channels. Local quality can vary, though at least they aren’t ALWAYS shills.

    That’s the biggest reason I don’t categorize internet journalism sites or video sites as “news outlets”. News outlets? More like news orifices.

  • Deus Absconditus

    fight fire with fire. Bully the parents until they make their shitty kid stop.

  • Michelle Renee

    Me too…made me cry..poor lill guy…i hope they get some measure of justice

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