Elizabeth Olten Found Dead In Woods; Older Juvenile In Custody
October 22, 2009 by Morbid
ST. MARTINS, Missouri – Here we go, another little girl has vanished while walking home. Maybe this will end differently than the Somer Thompson disappearance. At 6:15 p.m. Wednesday, 9-year-old Elizabeth Olten was walking the quarter mile home from a friend’s house in the 600 block of Route D south of St. Martins. She never arrived at her home. The Cole County Sheriff’s Department has issued an Endangered Person Advisory. Olten is a white, 9-year-old female. She is 5′ 2″ and 108 lbs. with brown hair, brown eyes and a fair complexion with physical marks. She was last seen wearing a pink scarf, pink shirt and pink sweater and blue jeans with white sneakers. She was also carrying a cell phone. The sheriff’s department contacted the cell phone provider, AT&T, who “pinged” the cell phone to triangulate its location. AT&T put the cell phone’s location deep in the woods near Elizabeth’sElizabeth reviews
home. The girl’s family members said she is afraid of the woods and the dark.
On Wednesday night, the Missouri State Highway Patrol searched for Elizabeth using a helicopter with a thermal imaging radar. Today, 60 people resumed the search focusing on a section of woods several hundred yards in diameter, which police had narrowed by triangulating the girl’s cell phone location. The battery had died by this morning and an uneven terrain, high brush and soaking weather are hampering the search effort.
“If you go to Iowa and look at a flat piece of farmland that’s 140 acres, you go, well it’s not that big.’ You translate that to Missouri and you use the same thing, you walk a long time to cover that same amount of land,” White said. “It’s muddy out there now. It’s difficult terrain, it’s difficult weather.”, said Cole County Sheriff Greg White.
Click here for a Google map of the area they are searching.
And before anyone starts bashing her parents for her walking that stretch of road, a commentor over on Topix noted that the girl’s parents were not alerted that she was being sent home from her friends house. So before we get into that territory, let’s wait for some more information to come in.
Update 10-23-09 An older juvenile led authorities to Elizabeth Olten’s body, deep in the woods near where an exhaustive search for the child was under way for much of the day. Little information on this other juvenile aside from them being described as a “person of interest.”
UPDATE 11-03-09
By now everyone knows who the 15-year-old suspect is. She is the older sister of the girl Olten was visiting. Already people are pouring over everything she has said or written on any of the myriad of social accounts she has. These are her alleged MyspaceMySpace
, FacebookFacebook
, TwitterTwitter
, Sing Snap and disabled YoutubeYouTube account (cached version here) which was on Nancy Grace tonight. Specifically her hobbies of “cutting, killing people.” This will be interesting. She seemed like a normal teen chick to me. I’m curious if this was an accidental death that she tried to cover up. In the Youtube video it shows her getting her brothers to touch an electric fence.
The following are simply rumors gathered from emails being sent and chat logs being posted. But supposedly this was a planned murder, a hole dug earlier. She also had help burying the body. She had cut the Olten’s neck and wrists purely to see if she could get away with it. None of this is confirmed, of course. But hey, it’s out there and I’m curious how close tot he truth it is. All stuff we will find out in the future.
Update 11-18-09
Here is the mugshot of 15-year-old Alyssa Bustamante the teen girl charged with strangling and slitting the throat of Elizabeth Olten. She’s a sick puppy and has shown some disturbing behavior for years, including cutting and an attempted suicide at 13.
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1:33 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Come on girl. Come home alive.
1:39 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Well, the info about the cell phone just had this story take a turn for the worse.
1:47 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I don’t think I can go through another one of these stories. Too emotionally draining.
1:52 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Morbid, I was going to contact you about this story and a theory I have that I hope is false. Then I came to the DD and your story came up.
I really, really hope that this is not related to the disturbing case of Somer Thompson in Flordia. For anyone who is unaware, she disappeared Monday after school, her body was discovered in a landfill in Georgia yesterday.(The Georgia location is where the trash from her area in Orange County, FL is sent).
Here is my horrific theory that I hope is wrong..It takes approximately 17 hours to drive from Orange County to Cole County. Another strange parallel is that Somer Thompson lives around 2 hours (by car) from the home of Haleigh Cummings. Maybe I watch too much TruTv, but these facts are scary. If any of these are related, I hope they catch the slimey fuck (or fucks) that are responsible as soon as possible for the safety of our children.
There are also some additional speculated facts in the comments section of the story in my local paper if you are interested. I made a similar comment on there as STLMommy. The link is;
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/laworder/story/3C802DBBD97162DA86257657003E0667?OpenDocument
Sorry so long, but I wanted to share..
Report Abuse
1:52 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Oh no. I read this one in the forums, not here. I didn’t see the cell phone part. Or if I did, I don’t remember it.
Damn it, man. Just damn it.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/M/MO_MISSING_GIRL_MO_MOOL-?SITE=MOSTP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
1:55 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Oops.. I meant to say that I hope they catch them regardless, but if these are related I wish that we could hang them by their male testicles or female tits in a public place with a live webcam. Thought I typed that, but I musst not have because I know DD would not filter that.
2:06 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I just heard about this morning, as they confirmed the body in the landfill was Somer. This sucks. And the terrain of the area along with the constant rain they’re having isn’t helping search efforts. Don’t know what to say other than I hope this turns out better than Somer, but it’s not looking good.
2:24 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I guess I can’t even let my kids walk to the mailbox anymore…so scary. Twice when I was little (7-10) and walking home from school, I was approached by people in cars. The second time a man actually got out and grabbed my arm…a group of older kids walking behind me ran up and scared him off. Never in a million years will I let any of my kids walk ANYWHERE. Im trying to figure out how to implant them all with tracking devices…
Ill hope this doesnt end badly…but dont they all?
3:06 pm on October 22nd, 2009
PLEASE God let this one come home safely!
I will never, ever, ever let my child go anywhere on her own, ever. She’s almost 14 but still.
5:02 pm on October 22nd, 2009
The cell phone deep in the woods is obviously not a good sign. So sad.
6:08 pm on October 22nd, 2009
This one has some weird twists to it. The father, Dale Olten, who is currently in prison – was a suspect in the disappearance and probable murder of his then girlfriend and/or roommate, Jasmine Haslag. The same woods that are being searched for his daughter, are the same woods that were searched in the case of Haslag.
Apparently, Olten and Haslag were busted in a drug trafficking arrest and shortly after, she disappeared and is presumed murdered.
Olten and his 21 year old son are in prison together. (awwww….how heartwarming). Here are the mugshots of these two deralicts.
http://www.connectmidmissouri.com/news/photos.aspx?id=266703
Seems the Olten men were involved in some pretty shady shit – drug trafficking, stolen goods, guns, etc.
Who knows – maybe the little girl was taken, killed or whatever, as retribution against the father??
Just my theory, for what it’s worth.
6:08 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Not gonna bash the parents since they didn’t know. Now I’m gonna bash the friends house. DON’T LET KIDS WALK ANYWHERE ALONE. THEY ARE SMALLER AND EASIER TO CARRY OFF. EVEN IF WITH A FRIEND. SOME PREDATORS CAN PICK UP 2 AND GET AWAY. MUCH LESS IF THEY ARE IN A MOLESTER VAN WITH ACCOMPLICES! REMEMBER S.C.A.R.E.S— STANDS FOR “SMALL CHILDREN ARE REALLY EASILY STOLEN”
6:40 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Thanks for the link NoWhining. That’s some arsenal they had.
7:01 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Let’s have some perspective before we go treating children like prisoners, shall we?
In the U.S., there are an estimated 200-300 stereotypical kidnappings (meaning a child abducted by a stranger that transports them over 50 miles, holds them overnight, ransoms them, intends to keep them permanently or kills them) ever year. In the most recent study year, the actual number was 115. 115 out of 70+ million.
By the way, of those 115, over 50% were teenagers.
1000 – the average number of children who die annually from drowning in the U.S.
2000 – the average number of children who die in car accidents annually.
Do you not let your child go swimming (or take baths, for that matter) because they might drows? Why not? They’re 10x more likely to drown than to get kidnapped and killed by a stranger. What about the car? Do you and your child walk to get groceries for fear of car accidents?
Look – it’s good to be aware and proactive. But the extent to which you restrict your child should be accurately proportionate to the risks. More risk, more restriction. Less risk, less restriction. Don’t get all caught up in the hype and turn your kid into a hermit because you’re irrationally paranoid. I, and millions of kids like me across the nation, walked everywhere we went as kids, often alone, and lived to tell the story… and we were healthier, smarter kids for it.
Here’s hoping this story has a happier ending, and in the meantime, let’s try to refrain from placing blame where it wasn’t earned.
7:20 pm on October 22nd, 2009
My only child has autism and therefore needs to be watched more than another child. So I can’t really say that she is allowed to do much walking alone at all. What I can say is this. I was a child once and I was a victim of crimes. Not as in singular crime. CRIMES as in more than once with different “adult citizens”. Now thank God I’m alive. As an adult I will tell you this much. I wish with everything I have that my parents would have watched me a lot better. Had they realized that watching me better would have protected me. I wouldn’t have to be such a damn advocate for children who are NOT FREAKING WATCHED. Also just because they don’t tell you something when it happens. Doesn’t mean it didn’t happen. So I can’t help driving for food. I CAN find a way to minimize the chances of a sadistic perv stealing them off the street they have no business walking on. Especially at the ages of these young little children. I am happy that you grew up smarter, healthier and safe. I won’t place blame where it wasn’t earned. I will place it where it belongs though. We are not talking about teenagers walking down the road. Look at these childrens ages.
9:10 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Athena, I completely see your point and it is very valid. I’m a hysterical over protective mother with my 7 yr old daughter.. maybe I go over board at Wal Mart when I make her stand beside me with her hand on the cart and not lag behind, so I can see her at all times. I dont allow her to ride the school bus, I drive her and pick her up every day. But for me, it’s worth it that every night, I’m tucking her into bed safely.
9:16 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I have a bad gut feeling about the outcome of this.. God be with Elizabeth Olten, and her family. I just cant even begin to imagine what they are going through.
9:18 pm on October 22nd, 2009
So sad
9:44 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Pins and needles… again.
Dammit. I hate that these kids can’t walk such short distances without some selfish, sick, waste of space predator sniffing them out!
I want them (predators) to die. Simple. Predators should just effing die.
Please let this end better… to restore some faith in humanity… let her come home safe.
10:22 pm on October 22nd, 2009
My kids, ages 7 and 9, walk to their friends houses about 4 days a week ALONE. They also ride the bus home. I refuse to be paranoid and disallow them to have normal childhood experiences. I know there is a chance something bad may happen. I also know the chance is slim and that they are more likely to benefit from this scenario than be harmed by it.
10:53 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I guess that it’s just the norm thing to do. I’m not paranoid about having “normal” experiences. I myself just thought it was common since not to let little, small, helpless children walk around by themselves. There are so many people who would stop their dogs from walking the street. For the concern, not paranoia, that it might get hit or abducted. Children can think and react in a totally different way than an animal. Still they have less defenses than say your dog has. Children are not born with the instinct to bite, scream, run away from danger. We teach them what to do. It’s just that in some cases that’s not enough or too late. Well at least in the scenario’s I have read about and seen. I guess I choose to go ahead and take the extra step. Personal choice…. Call me concerned for my childs safety or call me paranoid. Just don’t call me “The Next Parent Crying For the Return Of My Child Due to the Lack Of Trying.”
11:47 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I might call you helicopter parent. A bit overly concerned. However. Please don’t think that the rest of us are unaware or UNconcerned.
A lot of us here believe that our children deserve a sense of independence and self suficiency. Kids need that in order to prepare them for the real world. We wont be able to drive them to school when they are in college. They will actually have to depend upon their own resources to get a job, get TO the job and solve their own problems. We MUST allow them the opportunity to figure out how the hell that works NOW. Otherwise, we end up with kids that end up here, on the DD. Unable to cope with life and its’ little disappointments and requirements.
I have to admit that I live on a military installation so I may have a sense of safety and well being (false though it may be) that others dont, but I believe in allowing my children to BE children. They play with friends, go to their friends’ homes to get them, ride the bus to school (GASP), have chores and check in times and age appropriate rules and freedoms that allow them to be freakin kids while being safe.
You said something about common sense. My FOUR daughters ALL know stranger danger. And NO its not enough to simply tell them about it. You act it out so that they WILL have better defences than a damned dog. If you ‘teach them what to do’ the right way, consistently, you will teach them the RIGHT way to be safe while still being able to be a KID and they will be happy AND safe. Not just safe.
MY personal choice.
2:10 am on October 23rd, 2009
http://www.komu.com/satellite/SatelliteRender/KOMU.com/ba8a4513-c0a8-2f11-0063-9bd94c70b769/7f2e673e-80ce-0971-01cf-bae15c87f75b
3:16 am on October 23rd, 2009
Missycaro, while I agree with Athena and Dreamstorm, I also understand your fears as a parent with a special needs child.
Allow your daughter the freedoms that you are comfortable with, and as she
learns and matures you can decide to allow further freedoms if you feel she is responsible and understanding of dangers, and that she knows how to properly react to them.
Autism has such a wide spectrum range, that you and perhaps her teachers will have the best sense of knowing her personal advantages and limitations.
Start with small tasks/freedoms, and perhaps staying close enough that she feels like she is on her own, and you feel that you are still supervising; she will feel so much pride and self esteem, and you may be pleasantly surprised in the process.
Best of luck to you both!
7:05 am on October 23rd, 2009
While I pray that this child is just lost and will be found quickly I have to comment on what athena and the booblady have said.
I could kidnap a child a day if I wanted. They are everywhere teeny weeny children everywhere unattended. Your statistics would give me no comfort if it was my child missing. I let my boys have freedoms once they were 12 and into teenage years but at 7 and 9 – seriously? It’s easy to trick an adult let alone a child. Perhaps I’m over protective, I can live with that but I can’t live knowing my child is missing or hurt.
my 2 cents.
7:50 am on October 23rd, 2009
Wonder if the 12 and over kids listed below (*almost half the victims) were sheltered till they hit that “magic age 12″?
Facts on Missing Children
Non-Family Abductions
2002 Statistics
Unreported to police: 114,600
Reported to police: 3200 to 4600
Abductions are defined as:
1. The coerced and unauthorized taking of a child into a building, a vehicle, or a distance of more than 20 feet.
2. The detention of a child for a period of more than 1 hour.
3. The luring of a child for the purpose of committing another crime.
Findings Based on the Above Statistics
Unreported to police: Children aged 4-11 experienced most of the attempts.
Reported to the police:
Almost half of the victims were 12 and over;
74% were girls;
62% of the perpetrators were strangers;
19% were acquaintances;
52% were removed from the street;
46% were taken to a vehicle;
87% were taken by force;
75% taken by force had a gun involvement;
8% of all cases had a request for ransom.
100 Children are Abducted and Murdered Each Year.
75% are Dead Within the First 3 Hours
Wow. That’s some cold hearted shit right there. So… any parent whose child goes missing “didn’t try hard enough”?
I sit firmly with Athena and Dreamstorm on this one. My kids grew up with autonomy and independence – and they all made it to adulthood. Go figure.
9:04 am on October 23rd, 2009
Thank you Siobhan for being nice. While she is my only child and it’s hard to compare situations. I still say that I stand by what I said. I never said to not let your child go off to college, to not let your child drive(given they are the appropriate age, get a job at an appropriate age, or for the love of God ride the bus. Why am I getting hit with the bus thing? Did I say something about a bus or something? If I did I am truely sorry. I see nothing wrong with it. Ride on small childrn, ride on. My whole “The Next Parent Crying For the Return Of My Child Due to the Lack Of Trying.” was misconstrued and it was my fault. I should have added “Because of the lack of supervision while a small young child to little to be walking up and down the street was doing just that.” One suggestion was it people. What was that and did it have anything to do with locking them in a basement? No. It was…. Wait for it….. Here it comes…… LITTLE SMALL YOUNG PORTABLE CHILDREN SHOULD BE WATCHED WHILE RUNNING THE ROADS. THAT’S WHY IT’S ILLEGAL TO LEAVE THEM HOME ALONE. THEY ARE TOO YOUNG TO DO SO. IF YOU CAN’T LEGALLY LEAVE THEM HOME ALONE. THEN WHY WOULD YOU LET THEM WALK THE STREET ALONE? THE STREETS PEOPLE. THE ROAD PEOPLE. THE FREAKING ROAD. Not the bus, school, jobs, while sleeping etc….. Now here’s the whole dog theory. Like I said we wouldn’t let our dogs run the roads and they atleast have sharp teeth, more instinct to run and so on. I did’t say dogs are smarter than kids. So keep the cool on that one. Many dogs get away from the dog catcher. I mean I’ve seen the shows…lol…. Many of the dogs. Now a dog catcher has a van that says some sort of dog catcher or animal control on the side of it. They stop thier vans, get the equipment ready, and so such on the side of the rode. A predator in a molester van has nothing that says molester, predator, or just plain watch out for the babies on the side of it. They are usually more prepared since they just need hands. They grab and it’s over. I’m not being cold here. I’m being very caring. Caring to the point that I’m also caring about what happens to other peoples children. You can bash me all you want, but I DO CARE. I don’t like seeing these babies on here. It breaks my heart. I don’t want to go through what the parents are going through. I don’t want them to go through what they are going through. I don’t want you to go through it either. Not letting little children walk alone does not make them dependent for the rest of thier lives. You know it won’t. They can find the appropriate freedoms and the appropriate ages. I understand that parents decide that. It’s just LOOK AT THESE BABIES AGES!!!!!!!!!!!! Look at the lack of communication! You should be extremely grateful to have people in this world who care.
10:05 am on October 23rd, 2009
Heh, I have found that people have very differing views as to how much independence kids should be given. PErsonally, I’ll give my child as much space as I feel comfortable with and not a centimeter more. I am fairly protective of my kid, but she does have her freedoms. I also know that she considers herself to be extremely lucky that her parents care THIS much about her. Yep, her dad is as protective as I am.
I don’t think it’s fair to judge others based on your OWN opinion as to how much freedom your child “deserves” (not an appropriate term here IMO), unless of course the freedom given can be considered to be neglect or abuse of course. You let your kid walk by himself along the side of the road to a friends house a couple miles away, I won’t. You make sure your kid calls you every hour that they’re at someone else’s house, I don’t. That’s your “freedom”, that’s my “freedom”. Don’t judge me, I won’t judge you.
10:15 am on October 23rd, 2009
How strange that I was a DD “comment virgin” until this story (which is a local story for me) and now I have much to say regarding the comments on protective parents.
I myself had a sad childhood because my parents were both terrified that I would be abducted or killed in another way. I could not play outside without them (even in the back yard) until I was about 10 or so, once I was about 12 I had to be home when “the streetlights came on” when I would visit neighbors. They chose my friends based on their own stupid standards and who their parents were. They didnt stop “checking with the parents first” until I was seriously about 16. I could not ride in cars driven by teenagers until I was around 17 and even then they were paranoid and would not let me leave with anyone if the weather conditions were anything but sunny and dry. Needless to say high school sucked for me.
You know what I did? I went to college, moved into my dorm room and went WILD!!! I went through a huge whore stage and left clubs with strangers. I was in a few sticky situations, but by the grace of God I was fine. Not to mention I got a 1.8 GPA that first semester and I was a 3.5 student once I got my shit together. Now I am a mother to two girls, ages 5 and 1 and you know what? I am going to be vigilant for sure, but I will not be up thier asses because I don’t want them to lie to me when they leave so I know where they REALLY are. All my parents did was teach me to be a good liar. What do you think I did when I came home for the summers in college? As an adult, I see that they have huge problems taking risks in all areas of life and that is what is wrong with them.
Long again.. But I was thinking about my last comments and I know my theory is a far stretch. I have watched too many crime shows..
10:21 am on October 23rd, 2009
Darsa, good for you. Valid point on the whole “unless the freedom given can be considered to be neglect or abuse.” Great point! My point exactly! Don’t neglect the safety needs of a child, right? Well letting small young children who have no business to. Walk alone or in a group of other small young children on a road/street is neglecting safety. All the freedom in the world doesn’t make it right.
10:26 am on October 23rd, 2009
strangely, I’m not saying be up their asses. Sweet Baby God Jeeeeeezus!!! The road! Small children! I am sorry you turned into a whore! Guess what I did too and my mommy didn’t watch me at all!!!!!!!!! You were probably going to be a whore regardless of whether or not your mom let you walk the roads at 7yrs old! By the way I’m not trying to be mean by using the word whore. I seen that you called yourself that and so it’s part of the story.
11:30 am on October 23rd, 2009
My comments are generalizations. By no means am I telling people how to raise their children. Missy has an autistic child. Obviously, her circumstances are different. Some of you may live in bad neighborhoods. Your circumstance would be different.
What I am doing, however, is trying to give some perspective so that people avoid the knee-jerk, “Never allow your children to be unsupervised,” reactions, and bringing notice to the FACT that a lack of unsupervised time stunts children and is doing real harm to this country.
A recent census survey determined that more than a QUARTER of 25-29 year olds are still living with parents. Other studies have found that the current generation is experiencing a record number of nervous breakdowns in college. By being overprotective, you are artificially extending the childhood phase of your child’s life and, while the consequences may not be obvious, they’re pretty damning.
The best memories of my childhood were around the 7-10 age range, when I’d be cruising on my bike with a whole tribe of fellow little kids through the neighborhood. It makes me sad to think that today’s little kids aren’t getting that opportunity. Especially since there’s no reason to deprive them. Today’s America is the safest America on record.
11:56 am on October 23rd, 2009
missycaro
10:26 am on October 23rd, 2009
strangely, I’m not saying be up their asses. Sweet Baby God Jeeeeeezus!!! The road! Small children! I am sorry you turned into a whore! Guess what I did too and my mommy didn’t watch me at all!!!!!!!!! You were probably going to be a whore regardless of whether or not your mom let you walk the roads at 7yrs old! By the way I’m not trying to be mean by using the word whore. I seen that you called yourself that and so it’s part of the story.
Agree!!
strangelyintrigued
I don’t think you turned into a whore because your parents didn’t let you ride the bus when you where 7 years old or because they wanted to meet your friends parents, you just enjoyed getting fucked, and don’t want to take responsibility for your actions and blame your parents. Which makes me feel your parents may have been over protective and never allowed you to make disecions and take responsibility for you actions
So just as you blamed them as a child for your lack of friends, you blame them as an adult for turning into a whore.
Your environment, how you were raised has a lot to do with how you raise your children,
lifestyles in cites, burbs and rural areas are deferent and the freedom most children enjoy is also deferent, the dangers real or imagined are very deferent and it affects our parenting, In some small towns everyone knows everyone no need to meet a parent
in some big cities some people don’t know their neighbor and a parent would in general like to have an idea where you are and who you’re with.
In the end nothing we do as parents can protect our children all the time, we can do whatever, to make ourselves more conferrable and hopefully lessen the chances of disaster
At the same time we need to let go and let our children grow
12:02 pm on October 23rd, 2009
I agree 100 percent. It is one of my only reservations on running this website. the fact that I could be helping in the fear mongering. I try to balance out these horrific stories with actual stats on occasion, as I want people to be aware of the missing kids, I don’t want to propose that parents keep them locked in their rooms.
I have no issues with parents who want to be involved with their children and every aspect of their lives. Hell, if they did that we wouldn’t see some of the stories we read on here – and I am not talking just about abductions. Online predators, bullying, bomb making in the garage…there is a big difference between giving your child freedom and just being an un-involved parent.
Some studies even show that “helicopter” parents can be a great asset, especially with low-income children in regards to college. But again, that article deals with an involved parent…not a parent who kept their kid under lock-and-key. Anyway, I don’t think anyone here is saying that their idea of parenting is right or wrong, but what is comfortable for them. I just want to point out to any parents that feel your kid is likely to get snatched if you leave them outside for 5 minutes, that statistically that is not the case. 24 hour news just makes it seem that way.
12:29 pm on October 23rd, 2009
I know Athena will disagree with me, but why the fuck do people continue to allow these young children to walk around alone???? How many stories like this do we have to read before we realize ITS NOT FUCKING SAFE ANYMORE!!!! My son is this girl’s age, 9. Yesterday he wanted to go outside and ride his bike, I made him wait till I could go outside with him. He does not walk ANYWHERE alone. He has a friend that lives 3 houses down, when he goes over there I watch him from my FRONT YARD to make sure he gets there. Yeah, so Im overprotective and psycho. But at least the chances of my kid ending up in a fucking PILE OF GARBAGE, SEXUALLY ABUSED AND DEAD are a hell of a lot less!!!!!! Im fucking sick of these stories. I actually started punching my steering wheel in my car yesterday when I heard they had found Somer’s body. I am so sick and tired of the same thing happening over and over again. Yet as we speak, people continue to allow small children to fucking run the streets all day
12:30 pm on October 23rd, 2009
And yeah, I know statistically the chances of it happening to my son are low. I bet people said the same fucking thing to the mother of Somer and and the parents of Elizabeth Olten. Alot of good that did them
12:40 pm on October 23rd, 2009
In regards to that, I hadn’t heard of that study but Ive noticed that from my own experience. My reasoning for it is because it is a lot harder to afford to live on your own nowadays. Im a 29 year old, and although I wasnt able to get my bachelor’s degree, I have a decent job and still cant afford to live on my own right now. A couple of my coworkers who have degrees and are engineers for our sales department still live at home too, partly for that reason. We live in Miami, which is expensive as hell, so Im not sure if that’s the case everywhere but my understanding is that the cost of living everywhere has risen substantially, and our salaries haven’t.
Another reason could be that people don’t get married as early as they used to, and its a lot harder to afford living on your own on one salary as opposed to two. I could be 100 percent wrong, but it is hard for me to believe that not allowing my child that is under 10 to walk around the neighborhood alone all the time is going to stop him from being independent when he is 20. Once he is 11 years old or so, he will have a good 8 or 9 years to become more self sufficient, is it really necessary for me to allow a 7 year old or 9 year old to walk a mile unsupervised? Am I really ruining my son’s future because I dont allow that?
1:03 pm on October 23rd, 2009
Ahhh, Solange. Mah old friend. See, when it comes to it not being safe “anymore”, I don’t have to disagree with you, because it’s not a matter of opinion. You’re simply wrong.
The same can be said about your son’s odds of being assaulted and killed. They’re only a wittle, eensy-teensy bit lower. But at what cost? I suppose, though, if you’re hung up on the possibility of your son being abducted and killed, it doesn’t matter.
1:03 pm on October 23rd, 2009
This argument comes up on DD every time they post a story on a missing child (I’ve read the articles but have never commented.) This isn’t a black and white issue and there are no simple answers. As parents we have to take calculated risk (I love the car accident statistic best) and hope that in the end everything turns out alright. Just as we HAVE to drive cars in most areas, some children, even young ones, HAVE to walk home from school. They may not have any other options. I can’t judge a parent for that.
1:20 pm on October 23rd, 2009
My kids aren’t prisioners, but if they are going somewhere I take them, if they are outside riding bikes, I’ll stay outside to listen for them (even if they are not in sight) Everyone is different when raising their children, I do not think it’s right to judge anyone else. They are my kids I raise mine the way I see fit, and I’d expect you to do the same.
1:21 pm on October 23rd, 2009
[...] Elizabeth Olten Is Missing(Another great post by the Demon!) Missouri Girl, 9, Vanishes After Leaving Friend’s House MO girl, 9, missing in Cole County Elizabeth Olten Missing; 9-Year-Old Disappears in Cole County, Missouri Missing Girl Search: Called Off For the Night Search Continues for St. Martins Girl AT&T helping in search for missing girl Authorities Search For Missing Girl Possibly related posts: (automatically generated)Elizabeth Barrow murder 9/24/2009 Dartmouth, MA *100 year old Elizabeth Bar…Parents Gone Wild! Elizabeth Nicole Guerrero and Herman Bailon *child abus…Amber Alert cancelled: Dulcinea Lopez found safeElizabeth Olten is missing [...]
1:22 pm on October 23rd, 2009
Sure, there are other things that factor into kids staying at home longer these days. But it’s really a single part of a bigger picture. For example, there was a longitudinal study done about 50 years ago that measured the executive functions (self-control, judgment, creativity) of 3, 5 and 7 year olds. The same study was repeated about 10 years ago. The 7 year olds ranked at the level of the previous generation’s 5 year olds, the 5 year olds at the level of the previous generation’s 3 year olds. This may not seem significant to some, but it’s HUGE. It’s proof that we’re stunting the development of our kids. And as we restrict unsupervised time, it will continue to get worse.
No, it’s not necessary for you to allow a 7 year old to walk a mile unsupervised. My concern is that it potentially speaks to a more pervasive issue. If a parent doesn’t even let their kid take a walk in a familiar neighborhood unsupervised, it’s unlikely that child is getting any unsupervised time at all. And this kind of development isn’t something the kid can simply “make up for” later in life. It’s physiological. The longer that development is delayed, it will always be that delayed, generally speaking.
And here’s the thing – the world is far more dangerous for teens and young adults than it is for little kids. If a parent chooses to wait until a kid is a teen to allow them to develop these functions, you’re making a dangerous bet. Children under the age of 10 or so are much less likely to encounter really dangerous people or situations, so letting them experiment with their judgment is much safer because, if they’re wrong, it’s not likely to result in rape or death or anything too horrible. But if you send them into their teenage years without having already developed solid judgment and self control (and I’m not talking about what they do when you’re around – it’s what they do when you’re not around that matters), you’re sending them into a decidedly more dangerous phase of their life without the tools to protect themselves.
2:11 pm on October 23rd, 2009
Get ready to gasp..after the kids homework, snack, chores are done I tell them to be home at 5 or 6(depending on if they have soccer/baseball practice). So they are off on their own for 2-3 hours.
2:44 pm on October 23rd, 2009
That’s your choice to make. Noone else’s.
2:48 pm on October 23rd, 2009
I saw that coming a mile away lol
2:55 pm on October 23rd, 2009
(Hope I’m doing this right)
Just a little more info on what Athena is saying.
Later in the article
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/00000002D387.htm
2:57 pm on October 23rd, 2009
Well, what are their ages? Not that I have the right to judge you or anyone, but as you guys can see from my posts, it’s the big picture that angers me. The same story over and over, the parents who act like they lost a pet, not a child (not all of them obviously, but it is some of what I have seen in many of these cases). Predators target kids who are alone. I feel like having your young child walking around alone like that you may as well put a bullseye on their back, especially if you live in an area where you have 95 sexual predators living within a 5 mile radius.
There has to be a way to allow your kids the independence they need without having something like this happen to them. If someone figures that out, please let me know!
3:01 pm on October 23rd, 2009
Now. I’m not saying that everyone who doesn’t do this is wrong or that every single child not allowed free play/unsupervised play will end up living in mom’s basement unable to function in the world.
I AM saying that this is why I parent the way I do. Do NOT take this to mean I dont supervise my children or never know where they are or dont worry or even recognize danger.
All four have different level of age appropriate freedoms and restrictions. My 11 year old has a wider range of ‘wander room’ than does my 9 year old, my 6 year old has an even smaller range and my 4 year old cant leave the swings which are in direct line of site from my patio where I sit and watch her play. She isn’t UNsupervised, but I’m not at her feet either.
3:09 pm on October 23rd, 2009
They must be unsupervised (and, like, completely unsupervised, not with a parent peering out the kitchen window) to be able to exercise these abilities. One interesting study actually found that children exhibit better judgment when an adult is not present.
ANY unsupervised situation poses some risk. There’s no way to eliminate that. But navigating that risk is what causes individuals to grow.
Also, predators are predators. The more we restrict our children, the more bold predators will become. If they can’t nab them on the street anymore, they will become smarter or bolder about it – positioning themselves to have better access to children or stealing them right from their homes. I’d just assume give a child the tools to protect themselves and let them enjoy living if they run the risk of getting got either way.
3:25 pm on October 23rd, 2009
I’ve said it before and I will say it again (not to repeat Athena’s point).
How you want to parent and protect your children is up to you only and everyone else can suck it.
But our children are not in more danger now than in the 1950’s or whatever. It’s just that now we have 24 hour news cycles and Dreamin’ Demons to point out all of the cases. We have Nancy Grace and Dateline NBC to really drive home the fear.
When I was a kid, my mom gave me a lot of independence. She dropped me and my friends off at the mall or movies starting at like age 8. In Kindergarten and first grade, I walked to my school every day and walked home. Sometimes rode my bike. Even taking short cuts in the woods. I used to chase rabbits through the woods for hours and go swimming with friends in the bayou. I had to be home by 5 pm, that was the rule.
Was that dangerous? I guess so. But my mom trusted that she taught me well enough to know when to run the hell away from danger. And it worked. I was almost kidnapped when I was 10. A man approached me in a van with the whole, “Your mom wanted me to pick you up” scenario. I ran to the nearest house and called 911 instead.
I can’t say if I will be that trusting with my own kids, but I cherish the memories of chasing those rabbits and swimming with friends and seeing Bill and Ted’s in the theater and breaking into the old graveyard. I’d hate if all my memories were sitting in the backyard with my mom.
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