Day Care Intentionally Being Built Near Sex Offenders?
October 21, 2009 by Morbid
ORANGE COUNTY, Florida – All this started when parents found out that the mobile home park located near their kid’s bus stop housed 91 registered sex offenders. They tried to get the bus stop moved, but that effort failed. SexSEX
offenders cannot live near schools, churches and day cares – but there is nothing that says they can’t live by a bus stop. The Orange County School District checked and state there are no ‘conditional release’ offenders living in the trailer park – meaning none are barred from living within 1,000 feet of a school. The district says if there were, they wouldn’t have the bus stop there even though the law doesn’t even address bus stops. Regardless, one woman came up with an idea. Since the RSO’s cannot live near a daycare, why not just build one near them and force them to move. Lake Shore Village Mobile Home Park. This would force the sex offenders living there to move within 24hours of the day care opening. “Hey, that’s pretty clever!” you may be thinking. But is it, really?
Barbara Farris is the woman who came up with this plan, and has been working with someone who owns multiple day cares. She is the creator of Bee Aware, a program whose aim is to teach kids how to defend against predators. “Once we get our license approved, they have 24 hours to relocate,” Farris said. She was even nice enough to create a list of other monitored communities where they could relocate, all conveniently out of her county – and into someone else’s. But it may not matter anyway as she may be a tad mis-informed. The Department of Children and Families said they can’t deny Farris a license, but the Sheriff’s Office says there is no rule that the sex offenders have to go if a daycare comes in. On top of that, the Orange County County Commission said Farris would have to jump through a lot of hoops with zoning. The County Commission added they think it’s unlikely she would get permission to put it where she is planning.
But if it does work, all 90+ RSO’s living in this one trailer park, will now be scattered throughout their community. So instead of them all being in one, concentrated place near one bus stop, they will now be scattered throughout Central Florida possibly near multiple bus stops. On top of that, not all of these RSO’s are of the predatory variety and like it or not, they have all done their time. Admittedly, I do occasionally subscribe to the “gotta break a few eggs to make an omelet” motto – I am not real comfortable making a 40-year-old man move out of his home because he may have had sex with a 15-year-old girl when he was 18.
I feel for the parents who have kids at this bus stop, but there has got to be a better way to solve this problem than this – but it seems as if Harris is just demonstrating an age-old way of thinking; If it is not my problem, then it is not a problem at all. But it is kind of telling that only in the state of Florida can a resident find it easier to have a day care moved in the vicinity of 100 sex offenders than it is to have a school bus stop removed from the vicinity of 100 sex offenders.
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2:59 pm on October 21st, 2009
Fantastic article, Morbid!
A few facts to point out in relation to this story.
1.) There’s no evidence that areas with residence restrictions for RSOs are any safer than areas without.
2.) There’s no evidence that communities with registries are safer than those without.
3.) “Sex offender” does not equal “child molester”. “Sex offender” can include a guy who whizzed in public, a person who streaked at a game as a prank, a 19 year old who had consentual relations with his 16 year old girlfriend, etc.
4.) Communities with residence restrictions have more sex offenders that go “off the grid” than those that don’t.
So, not only is this woman seeking to make these RSOs someone else’s problem, she’s also actively working toward forcing a number of them off the registry and “underground”.
This is the problem when people latch onto an issue and become rabid about it. Rabid quickly transitions into irrational and counter-productive.
2:59 pm on October 21st, 2009
Here’s a novel idea; why don’t the parents take the kids to the bus stop and pick them up there. Or teach them what to do if a stranger approaches, or teach them self defense, or entrust a responsible adult to make sure they arrive at the bus stop safely? Too many parents nowadays don’t want to step up and take actual responsibility for their children.
3:05 pm on October 21st, 2009
That’s just it Coyote. What some parents seem to forget is that there are more sex offenders off the grid than there are on the grid and visible. The most logical point of defense is the child. Teach the child to be responsible and aware so they can protect themselves against all threats, seen or unseen, whether a parent is around or not.
4:30 pm on October 21st, 2009
In Florida, there IS a difference between a “sex offender” and a “sexual PREDATOR.” A sexual predator’s history IS against MINORS.
http://tinyurl.com/yzf3q6j
According to Florida statutes, a sexual offender is a person convicted of (or who has pled no contest or guilty to) a sex offense involving a minor and who is released on or after October 1, 1997 from the sanction (e.g., fine, incarceration, probation, etc.) imposed as a result of the offense. Offenses include, but aren’t limited to, child pornography, sexual performance by a child under 18 and procuring a person under 18 for purposes of prostitution. Consult the Florida statutes for a complete listing of offenses.
A predator designation requires that a person be convicted of a first-degree felony sex crime, or two second-degree felony sex crimes (with offenses, convictions or release from court sanctions occurring within 10 years) and which occurred after October 1, 1993. In addition, the court must issue a written order finding for predator status.
4:33 pm on October 21st, 2009
Athena, you perfectly articulated my view on this…sex offender registries are one of the stupidest things ever IMO. Not only do they include people who aren’t predatory child molesters or child rapists (this includes those who have solicited prostitutes as well), they are completely ineffective at keeping the real predators away from kids! Predatory sex offenders need to be kept in prison, period. I say 20 years minimum, without parole, for the first offense, and mandatory life without parole after that. Though I would really like to see mandatory life for the first offense, I think that’s reasonable.
I once saw an episode of Criminal Minds (love that show!) where a girl had been abducted. A stupid woman from the neighborhood went to the parents’ house and gave them photocopies of sex offenders in the area complete with addresses. The already distraught dad immediately went to the nearest guy’s home and started kicking his ass, only to be pulled off by the FBI agents and informed that this particular guy had only hired a prostitute once. The dad just kept sputtering, “He’s a child molester,” because he assumed everyone on the registry was. They also called the rabid self-appointed sex offender police woman an idiot to her face, and I cheered.
I also especially like how the woman in this story decided to just turn the problem over to a bunch of other parents. What a humanitarian.
4:46 pm on October 21st, 2009
I’m a bit confused by your post — you say that a sexual predator designation exclusively means that the offense was against minors, but then you posted info that contradicts that, i.e., the sexual predator designation is reserved for felony sex crimes, which presumably can apply to adult victims as well, and that the sex offender designation included crimes against children.
I’m also not clear on what your underlying point is.
4:54 pm on October 21st, 2009
Sorry about that. I was responding to the original article and didn’t quote what I wanted. And now that I am going back to quote, I realize that I read it wrong. I feel like Emily Litella from Saturday Night Live. “Nevermind.”
5:12 pm on October 21st, 2009
Don’t mention it.
5:54 pm on October 21st, 2009
I like Coyote’s idea. There’s a bus stop near my home and I often see parents waiting for their children there and as far as I know there’s no sex offenders in out area (and I’m a registry check). Our registry is only for people that have committed criminal sexual conduct. So it doesn’t include prostitution or even flashing. You can get some details on the crime (13-15, impaired, under 12, etc)
5:59 pm on October 21st, 2009
take that back I just saw a guy on the list for pandering and prostitution … I guess that’s legal talk for pimping
6:16 pm on October 21st, 2009
I’m sorry guys, but I have no tolerance for people who defend sex offenders. It’s true that in some states you can even be required to register for peeing in public. However, if your crime is something minor like that or having sex with your 15 year old girlfriend when you’re 18, then you should be able to move into a neighborhood and explain that to your neighbors. You do not have to live in a mobile home park with 91 OTHER SEX OFFENDERS. And if you are a sex offender and not a sexual PREDATOR because you raped an adult or because you were taking advantage of the elderly in an old folks home or beating off in the bushes outside your ex-girlfriend’s house, I still don’t give a flying fuck about your rights. Just because your crimes were against adults and not minors doesn’t mean you are ok to be around my fucking kids! I am much more concerned about these children than a sex offender living in a trailer park with and socializing with 91 other sex offender, no matter what his or her crime.
And I want to make one thing clear. Offenders who are “no longer a threat” are STILL A THREAT. You all read this website enough and should know that time and rehabilitation do ABSOLUTELY nothing to a pedophile or rapist except put the fear of prison in them. You can’t change a person’s sexual urges. If you disagree with me, well fuck you. I hate sex offenders more than anything in this goddamn world and I’m pretty sad that everyone is on here talking about their rights and boohoo let’s all cry about the sex offenders losing their trailer park. If you’re really concerned about losing your land because you are a registered sex offender and your crime wasn’t that bad, then move somewhere where you are not surrounded by almost a hundred pedophiles. Guilty by association: you can move away from them if you want.
6:44 pm on October 21st, 2009
I’m sorry, but what the hell are you talking about? Who here is saying “boo hoo” for the sex offenders? Who here said that they are concerned that the sex offenders will lose their home? Who here is concerned about their “rights?” That is not the point ANYONE was making, not even remotely close. The point is that perhaps it is better to have them all there than spread out all over the place, and that passing the buck onto OTHER people and other parents to deal with is not the answer, either.
The real answer is keeping predatory sex offenders locked up, preferably for life. Sex offender registries are fucking stupid because they’re NOT EFFECTIVE in actually protecting kids. As Athena pointed out, you don’t want them going underground, either. Registries are preferable to that, but no where near as good as keeping them in prison.
How in the fuck you got the idea that people here are for coddling sex offenders, I have no idea, but it’s damn bizarre. Your reading comprehension skills leave something to be desired.
6:52 pm on October 21st, 2009
Chris N – If you have not contacted your elected representatives about longer sentences for felony sex offenses, sit down and STFU. All your rage about sex offenders and intolerance for those who defend their rights means fuck-all if you’re not doing anything about it.
Secondly, no, they can’t just “move somewhere else” Have you been paying attention to the comments in this thread? That’s precisely the problem with residence restrictions. Depending on the terms of a convict’s parole or conditions of release, he may not be able move out of county, and the county that he’s in may have such strict residence restrictions that he is forced to live in a place like this with 90+ other sex offenders. Why else do you think communities like this develop???
Ideally, sex offenders deemed threatening enough that we have to make them register for the rest of their lives and restrict where they can live would simply be permanently incarcerated. But they aren’t because, despite their tired-ass rhetoric, politicians don’t give a flying fuck about “keeping kids safe”. They’re more concerned about looking “tough on crime” or whatever other hot-button topic obtains them votes from the Great Unwashed.
In the meantime, we can’t just shit all over individual rights simply because this is an unpopular faction of society… especially when we consider that the programs that are imposing on those rights are all for show and aren’t even keeping us safe.
7:46 pm on October 21st, 2009
^ It’s because people like you who think everyone that’s a RSO is dangerous that they have to live all clumped together in one spot.
Honestly I doubt anyone of them was a pedo, other wise they would have had the condition on them they can’t live/be within a certain radius of children. No I’m not defending people who who have done despicable things against another’s will. But I’m not closed minded enough to believe that everyone of those people is a serious threat to anyone in the neighborhood. Never mind the fact that most RSO’s if they re-offend it’s very seldom in their own neighborhood. Why sh*t in your own backyard when it will be the first place people start looking?
8:44 pm on October 21st, 2009
Exactly. And as I stated in the article, the news reported that the school district did not find any “conditional” RSO’s in the area or they would not have placed the bus stop there in the first place. RSO does not equal pedophile
11:29 pm on October 21st, 2009
EXACTLY.
11:44 pm on October 21st, 2009
Here’s some stat’s from where I live (Canada). Ignorance isn’t always bliss, you should try removing the stick from your ass before making assumptions about subjects you obviously know little about. Fear fuels irrational and idiotic thinking in my belief.
Before I post the stat’s I just want to point out some flaws in Canada’s sex offends registry. We the public don’t have access to who is and who isn’t a RSO. If they’re a RSO because of being a pedophile they put out news releases on the media stating who they are, what neighborhood they are moving into etc when they are released from jail so that the public can stay informed.
All in all I’d be more worried about those closest (friends/family/etc) to you then those you don’t even know or live by
Those are 2008 stat’s btw.
2:15 am on October 22nd, 2009
Ok there is so much to argue against here so I’m going to try and start one at a time. This is what I dedicate a large portion of my life to, and I am very passionate about it. Please understand none of this is personal, so I would appreciate if you refrain from personal attacks. I can assure you I don’t have anything up my ass that hasn’t always been there, haha.
Athena, I have contacted state representatives. I am in law school and I am studying so that hopefully one day I can have an impact on the many flawed laws when it comes to RSOs. I think for the most part we are all in agreement on this issue, and it probably boils down to misunderstanding.
First, I agree with all of the stats provided by Chronic as well as the critics of the sex offender registry in the article. I think that many points of the RSO programs need to be revamped; however, I see no reason to get rid of the sex offender registry. It certainly does not make communities any less safe. While it is not all that effective in stopping many if not most sexual predators, it does not aid sexual predation in any way. If everyone is on the same page as I am, I apologizing for not getting that.
Chronic you made a comment about my ignorance when it came to lingering threats among RSOs. While the overwhelming majority of sex offenders do not reoffend, there is nothing that shows that a person is less of a threat or a non-threat after a certain amount of time. A child molester is a child molester for life. The majority do not reoffend after their first time, but that does not mean they don’t want to or wouldn’t in a second if they thought they wouldn’t get caught and go back to prison. Many end up feeling guilty, but there is no way to determine a person’s feelings of guilt and I would rather stay on the safe side under the assumption that they will reoffend. I don’t believe there is a thing that rehabilitation or time can do to a persons sexual urges. Ask anyone whoever has tried desperately to erase their own homosexual tendencies in order to rejoin the Mormon church (there’s a lot). I believe most of you are on the same page as me for that one, since you all are in favor of giving child molesters life in prison. I am ALL FOR THAT.
2:56 am on October 22nd, 2009
I did say that I’m against someone forcing themselves upon another person. But again RSO isn’t the same thing as a pedophile.
No one said anything about the RSO’s in the report being pedophiles. People see registered sex offender and automatically fear the worst. Life isn’t always black and white you can’t just clump people together because a flawed legal system deems so. Your more likely to die from a drunk driver then you are to be molested by a RSO, are you going to quit driving because of that chance?
And a side note..I don’t know what being gay has to do with being a RSO. It’s not even comparable, just because your gay doesn’t mean you hurt people or break the law. If a homosexual chooses to hide who they are then they have no one to blame but themselves for how they feel on the inside. This isn’t the 50’s people need to open their eyes.
10:15 am on October 22nd, 2009
for some reason it still ceases to amaze me how stupid some people can be. We have a neighbor like that. She is loud, thinks she always has the right answer and pretty much looks like a troll. She gets this idea in her head, she doesn’t think it through (much like the dumbass featured above) and starts these “campaigns”. Then if you don’t agree she takes it personally and anything you say is wrong. It could be that the sky is blue and she’ll argue that. She’s actually gone door to door to start a petition against another neighbor for something totally bogus. Luckily nothing came of it, but someone like her can be dangerous. She’s dumb, a liar and persistant. It’s really annoying. Anyway my point is this lady really needs to use her brain. I mean seriously open a daycare? I agree with most everyone else…..teach your kids from the start and if you still don’t feel comfortable then walk them to the bus stop. Sorry end rant, I just feel like I know this lady
10:36 am on October 22nd, 2009
Has anyone thought about the danger the children in the new daycare could be in, if the plan actually went through?
While I generally have only limited sympathy for RSO’s – we have to admit that their lives are basically ruined once they get that “tag”. They have almost no options, even if they have paid their “debt” to society and are trying to go straight. Which, is kind of unfair – especially for SO’s who are not predators.
Anyway – if this daycare plan actually went down, and these RSO’s were given 24 hours to do the impossible – to find a new place to live – don’t you think that at least ONE of them might snap? If they snapped, who might they target? Yeah – the center. BAD IDEA.
If anyone of you ever read the online journals of Joseph Duncan (the perv who kidnapped the Groene children) you can watch the deterioration of a mind – because (in his eyes) of the immense pressures he faced by being a RSO. (Not that that is any even minute excuse for what he did – but you can’t argue with a crazy person).
Anyway – overall horrible idea, no matter what you think about RSO’s.
11:52 am on October 22nd, 2009
Someone who shows up here telling people who disagree, “Well, fuck you,” really has no grounds on which to request civility, now, do they? If you want happy people holding hands, you might want to rethink your entrance next time.
What kind of logic is this? Unless you can think of a way to revamp registries to make them effective, then, yes, we need to get rid of them, for two reasons:
1.) Registries contribute to a false sense of security. Some experts suggest that parents who are focused on registries are distracted from more immediate threats, thinking that, because they can “see” the predators in their neighborhood, there’s nothing to worry about.
2.) Registries cost money to maintain. In an economic atmosphere that is resulting in slashed budgets for law enforcement nationwide, we can’t afford to maintain ineffective programs simply because, hey, they’re not helping predators!
I’m going to assume you understand the concept of ROI, or “return on investment”. Registries have an incredibly poor ROI. They cost a lot of money for minimal to no benefit, and may even hinder us in social ways.
Dude… don’t just agree with her statistics! Do your own research! You’re a law student, for christ’s sake! Frankly, I’m surprised you haven’t already.
When articles cite “studies” without listing the specifics, it’s often misleading. When it comes to recidivism rates for sex offenders, you would not believe the extent to which the results vary. Because of the different methodologies used, some studies are a lot more meaningful than others.
For example – A study that measures the re-arrest rate of 162 sex offenders after 4 years might find that 87% do not re-offend. Sounds legit, right? It’s a longitudinal study that used a healthy sample. But this is a worthless study for your purpose, for three reasons. 1) They failed to define “re-arrest”. It doesn’t matter to us if he was picked up for marijuana possession or car theft, does it? 2.) They failed to define “sex offenders”. They could have used 162 “sex offenders”, none of whom were convicted for rape or child molestation, the specific offenders you’re interested in. 3.) They were only studied for 4 years.
Now, here’s a study that is far more specific and useful:
As you can see, it details the recidivism rate (as it pertains to sex offenses specifically) of rapists and child molesters over a 25 year period of time… and as you can see, they both boast rather high recidivism rates when followed for a long enough period. Still not as high as some might think, but, ultimately, these statement that the vast majority don’t reoffend is patently false.
Incidentally, Chris, if you click on that chart, it will take you to a very helpful PDF that reviews a number of sex offender recidivism studies in depth. It would be helpful for you to review, I think.
2:32 pm on October 22nd, 2009
I am all about stringing a PROVEN pedophile or sexual predator up and burning them to death; just like everyone else on this forum. Where I am torn is the innocent people accused of crimes like this who suffer the rest of their lives for something they didn’t do. I have a friend who was going to turn an abusive mother in for neglecting her children. SHE turned around and accused him of child molestation. He had PROOF he couldn’t have committed the acts when she stated so what did the judge do? (It was a re-election year and he couldn’t afford a fancy defense team; public defender all the way who should be disbarred) wouldn’t let him have an alibi for specific dates, dates the woman herself stated. He had to serve 5 years, register as a sex offender, and now has a perm. dislike of children. Here is a man who loved kids, wanted kids, and was trying to protect kids wrongly accused and punished for something he did not do. He won’t even be in the room alone with his own families children because of what he went through. The idea of some bitch causing him to have only 24 hours to move makes me almost rabid. However, my point is the whole legal system needs to be re-vamped. Not just the RSO part. If a society is going to punish a crime and make the criminal be a target for the rest of their life they damn well better make sure they are actually guilty.
Also, I read duncan’s the fifth nail or what not, that was some messed up shit. Made my skin crawl. By my statement above I in NO WAY support actual guilty RSO’s. The danger is, as Athena, said thinking all RSO’s are pedophiles. As in the case of the child just found, Somer; 75 RSO’s within a 5 mile radius…that doesn’t mean pedophiles though.
2:40 pm on October 22nd, 2009
Considering the seer amount of people that are RSO it’s amazing that more people don’t re-offend.
Also you make a valid point about following them longer for more accurate results. The study you pulled it from is over 8 years old and if you look at when they were established it was June 1997 and the report was done in May of 2001..hardly the 25 years they claim to have stats on. Never mind the fact that no state or province has even had a RSO program for 25 years. You can’t tell me that they were able to follow enough people with sex crime convictions to be able to make a accurate study considering the fact it would have been all voluntary, no requirements to check in or have your address listed..nothing. There is no way for you to accurately follow someone for 25 years without them offering to allow you too. I think there’s a huge difference between being charged with a sex offense and being labeled a RSO, especially in the way people look at you and the way you react to the public in general.
The stats I gave are the stats since we started our RSO program in 2004, that’s a short 4 year span for them to gather info before that article was released. Taking that into account of course things won’t ever match up to reality, but in all honesty no study comes close to matching numbers. Take 10 studies done on the same subject and all 10 will have varying answers.
2:53 pm on October 22nd, 2009
@sarabei
I agree completely with what you said. I’m pro death penalty and personally think if they can prove 100% that a person committed a rape,etc then they shouldn’t even have jail time..it should be right out to the firing squad for them. But I also believe they need hard evidence, DNA,etc to convict people for these crimes. To many people fall between the cracks the way the justice system is set up now. Everyone is out for there own personal gain right down to the lawyers and judges.
2:59 pm on October 22nd, 2009
@Chronic, I know, too many politics are involved in the justice system right now, I would love to see that corrected! I am pro-death penalty as well but like you want it proven 100% before they are put to death!
5:25 pm on October 22nd, 2009
You’re misunderstanding some things, Chronic.
The study focused on sex offenders from 1972 to 1997 – 25 years. Upon completion in ‘97, they released a report. Studies are dated by when the report was released. The PDF I linked to was a report released in 2001 that compared various older studies, one being Prentky, Lee, Knight, and Cerce (1997), where that chart came from. That doesn’t mean that the time period being studied was between ‘97 and ‘01. See what I’m saying?
Do you know what “RSO” stands for? “Registered Sex Offender”. These studies have nothing to do with registries, though. If Ricky Bobby was popped for child molestation back in ‘86, you don’t need to “follow him” to find out if he reoffends. You just check his criminal record at established intervals, say 1 year, 5 years, 10 years and 25 years. It’s all public information.
Actually, depending on a study’s methodology, studies can be VERY accurate. That’s why the methodology should be reviewed. If a study was put together illogically or if it failed to control for certain factors, it’ll be inaccurate. If 10 studies are done on the same thing using the same methology, their results will be quite similar in most cases.
2:07 am on October 23rd, 2009
I agree with Athena. Laws limiting where sex offenders can live, in my option, aren’t worth shit. 90% of the children that are molested have it done by someone they know. That means a family member/friend/coach, not the scary man down the street.
Also, many states that passed laws limting where sex offenders can live have revoked them or scaled back. Why may you ask? Because they discovered that if you make it impossible for someone to live anywhere without breaking the law, the offenders figured they just wouldn’t register and vanish instead. Plus, having officers have to check to make sure every single offender is living so many feet from certain areas takes up time and money that could best be used on people who are truly a danger to children.
This is not about feeling sorry for SO or minmizing the damage it has on children, (and it does HUGE damage),but being smart. Making it impossible for SO’s to live anywhere or making them someone’s elses problem isn’t smart, it makes it more dangerous for all of us.
11:22 pm on October 23rd, 2009
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