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Four Teen Boys Accused Of Raping Teammate

May 11, 2009 at 5:46 am by  

Odessa, FloridaSomething nasty has been going down in the locker room at Walker Middle School. Four teens, Randall John Moye, 14, Raymond Price-Murray, 14, Lee Louis Myers, 14, and Diamante Roberts, 15, are being accused of raping another student with a broom handle and a hockey stick.

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Randall John Moye, Raymond Price-Murray, Lee Louis Myers, Diamante Roberts

All five teens involved are on the same flag football team. The victim, a 13-year-old boy, was continually harassed and bullied between March 15 and May 5. The bullies stepped it up a notch on April 30…two of the teens pinned the victim down on the locker room floor, and the other two raped him with a broom handle and a hockey stick. The victim said nothing about the attack, or the two months of previous bullying, until after an incident Tuesday night at the school.

Tuesday evening, the flag football coach noticed something was wrong when the victim acted strangely towards some teammates during a game…there was some pushing and some yelling. When the coach took him aside, the boy said, ‘I’m just sick of this.’ He said the others had been bothering him and had hit him with a hockey stick. Following up on the incident the next morning, the coach had the bullies sit down and write out their version of the events that happened in the locker room. ‘In their written statements, at least one of the students described a situation involving the hockey stick,’ said school Superintendent Mary Ellen Elia. The victim was then interviewed and the whole ugly story came out.

The four teens were arrested on Wednesday. All four are facing charges of false imprisonment and sexual assault. All four will be charged as adults. Of course, the bullies have their defenders. I suggest checking out the source link, interesting reading there.

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  • Rotten Apple

    Defenders?  Seriously?  I don’t care how annoying a kid may be or WHATEVER, you don’t gang up on him 4 against one and stick things in his ass.

    Maybe if they let these little boys play TACKLE football, they could have worked out all their homosexual aggression with each other in a safe and mutually agreeable way.

  • Jury

    Everyone of them looks like they would be a pain in the ass.

  • thinkgoat

    Rotten Apple: Defenders?  Seriously?  I don’t care how annoying a kid may be or WHATEVER, you don’t gang up on him 4 against one and stick things in his ass.Maybe if they let these little boys play TACKLE football, they could have worked out all their homosexual aggression with each other in a safe and mutually agreeable way.

    Agreed.  And since they “went there” it’s time to make an example of them.  Turn-about being fair play and all.  Have shop class make 4 stands with a single wooden pole (broomstick?) up through the middle of each one and plant these role model flag-football players on the stick – line them down the main school hall.  Talk about a lasting impression…

    Ooh, could be a PTO fundraiser exhibit also.  Schools are always looking for ways to make money.

  • http://www.myspace.com/justdazin So Jaded

    Jury: Everyone of them looks like they would be a pain in the ass.

    Groan.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Just looking at the face pics, Randall looks like the main bully in Eden Lake. :P

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  • Dakota Valkyrie

    LOL a defender in the comments says: I can’t wait until the real story comes out after the investigation is done and all of you look so ignorant.

    Comedy writes itself.  WHAT excuse could anyone come up with that makes gang banging with hockey sticks and broom handles OK?

  • biteme

    fucken pussies,  wish them GP, and lots of sleepless nights
    Bubba these pussies are for u, enjoy.  May all their defenders get fucked in the ass with a baseball bat!

  • CassieMomma

    Dakota Valkyrie:
    LOL a defender in the comments says: I can’t wait until the real story comes out after the investigation is done and all of you look so ignorant.
    Comedy writes itself.  WHAT excuse could anyone come up with that makes gang banging with hockey sticks and broom handles OK?

    Seriously!

    I understand teenage bullying, it happens everywhere, but what is up lately with the male on male gang bang assaults????

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    I never get this type of bullying. I understand extreme humiliation and all that, but back in my day, if you touched another boy’s asshole – even if it was with a 100-yard-long pole – you were nothing more than a repressed, self-loathing homosexual.

  • granny-g

    I have to agree with every post thus far.
    No matter WHAT the “story” nothing would make this
    sound RIGHT. Parents of the little perv rapists……get your boys some help
    they are sexual offenders. NON-OFFENDERS do not suddenly
    decide to annaly rape someone.  Most teen age boys do not sit around and
    dream up this type attack. The average teen age boy if having had enough
    of an irritating peer would just smack the crap out of him.
    NOT ONCE THINK ” hey maybe I should stick something up his ass”
    Your kids are sick and if you think what they did was alright
    then you too are sick.

  • ecvmanzo

    granny-g:
    I have to agree with every post thus far.
    No matter WHAT the “story” nothing would make this
    sound RIGHT. Parents of the little perv rapists……get your boys some help
    they are sexual offenders. NON-OFFENDERS do not suddenly
    decide to annaly rape someone.  Most teen age boys do not sit around and
    dream up this type attack. The average teen age boy if having had enough
    of an irritating peer would just smack the crap out of him.
    NOT ONCE THINK ” hey maybe I should stick something up his ass”
    Your kids are sick and if you think what they did was alright
    then you too are sick.

    Yes, there is ABSOLUTELY, no reason why this attack should have happened. Now it’s time to pay the piper! They should be punished severly.

  • Kdogg

    The rape was the final act of the teasing and tormenting that this poor boy went through. An act of humilation to give these pricks power. Won’t they be surprised when they get to prison.
     On another noe, kudos to the coach for talking to the victim and finding out the truth. Bullying is not kids being kids, it leaves a lasting impact on the victims.

  • Deety

    If any of these guys willingly slept with a 30 year old woman, she would be considered by many here to be a pedophile and a rapist, and they would be victims (only 14!), too young and innnocent to consent to sex. But when they’re accused of raping another boy, they are considered adults, old enough to be held accountable for their actions, and old enough for their pictures to be posted on the internet alongside the accusation.

    Does this confuse anyone else?

  • MISS.S

    Yeah from the looks of it they’re guilty and people actually proclaim that they were wrongly accused. But what I don’t get is how do you accuse someone if they confessed? From what I understand is that one of them confessed or turned info on the 2 who did the raping. And thus they had to ask the kid if he got a broom up his butt…and I believe the kid said “yeah i was raped with a broomstick handle and a hockey stick” Nobody but the rapists admitted it. So how is that their friends  i.e. Family, girlfriends and apparently old ass neighbors who think that anyone who brings in the groceries qualifies for a boy scout…thinks that they are wrongly accused? Go after one of them who admitted it in their SIGNED, WRITTEN, CONFESSION. UGH!!   I hope they make them sign up as sex offenders for life and then throw them in the pokey with their fellow sex offenders so they can feel a pokey in the pokey!!

  • MISS.S

    Deety: If any of these guys willingly slept with a 30 year old woman, she would be considered by many here to be a pedophile and a rapist, and they would be victims (only 14!), too young and innnocent to consent to sex. But when they’re accused of raping another boy, they are considered adults, old enough to be held accountable for their actions, and old enough for their pictures to be posted on the internet alongside the accusation.Does this confuse anyone else?

    No it doesn’t…I don’t know about you but when I was 14 I knew full and well what was the difference between right and wrong. And if you say you didn’t know that raping someone with a hockey stick is wrong,…you have a very low IQ and obviously are developmentally disabled. They are being charged as adults because of the specific Malice and Forethought of holding someone down and raping them anally. If you still didn’t know that was wrong at 14, you should be seeking some help. Sorry if that’s mean but if your 13 yr old was raped by a 14 yr old I highly doubt you would want them all released cuz its  all in good fun right?  COME ON..what would have happened if they ruptured his insides and killed him? What cuz they’re 14 they should be let go cuz theyre not 18? Rape is Rape. Murder is Murder. Gang raping a teen is not ok at any age. PERIOD.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    If any of these guys willingly slept with a 30 year old woman, she would be considered by many here to be a pedophile and a rapist, and they would be victims (only 14!), too young and innnocent to consent to sex. But when they’re accused of raping another boy, they are considered adults, old enough to be held accountable for their actions, and old enough for their pictures to be posted on the internet alongside the accusation.

    Does this confuse anyone else?

    Yes.

    Unfortunately, DAs are neither psychologists or biologists. The juvenile justice system was created nearly 100 years ago because even back then, people understood that minors do not have the same faculties as adults. We’re getting away from that as a result of sheer vengence and emotionalism and the ignorant misconception that kids are “growing up faster these days”.

    Sure, the juvenile system is plagued by short and often ineffective sentencing. But the solution to that is to reevaluate and bolster the juvenile system, NOT treat juvenile offenders as adults.

  • MISS.S

    So what is your response to handling 14 yr old gang rapists ? Shall we let them go? TO run free and rape the other children in the neighborhood, or do they get a Free GET OUT OF JAIL FREE card … A DO OVER … A MULLIGAN. At the expense of the tortured, bullied, raped 13 yr old? Where is his justice why are we focused on how wrongly these 14 yr olds are being charged in adult court? HELLO 13 YR OLD BOY RAPED !! Why do we keep missing that?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    What cuz they’re 14 they should be let go cuz theyre not 18? Rape is Rape. Murder is Murder. Gang raping a teen is not ok at any age. PERIOD.

    LMAO. Case-in-point.

    Do you honestly think the alternative to charging them as adults is simply not charging them at all?

    I get what you’re saying – obviously, sodomy of this nature IS wrong at any age. But it doesn’t carry the same stigma as it did when Morbid was a kid.

    Anyone watch any of the Jackass movies, or any of the movies produced by Bam Margera? In the most recent one I watched, Where The #$&% is Santa (2008), a group of them sodomized a member of their crew with a reindeer penis. No one brought up on charges – hell, no one was even mad about it. They all laughed and had a good time. This is by no means the only such example of sodomizing a peer found in these movies.

    I’m not suggesting that movies like this cause behavior like this, or that this act is somehow less serious because it’s happened in movies without consequence. My point is that, to the young, hyper-impulsive mind, the severity of the act IS skewed a bit by these representations being made by their heroes.

    Kids don’t grasp consequences or severity like adults do. It’s exactly why we consider them incapable of getting a driver’s license, working 40 hours a week or choosing who they can have sex with without “protecting” them from predatory adults.

    We can’t have it both ways. Either they’re capable of understanding consequence and exercising good judgment… or they’re not.

  • biteme

    Deety: If any of these guys willingly slept with a 30 year old woman, she would be considered by many here to be a pedophile and a rapist, and they would be victims (only 14!), too young and innnocent to consent to sex. But when they’re accused of raping another boy, they are considered adults, old enough to be held accountable for their actions, and old enough for their pictures to be posted on the internet alongside the accusation.Does this confuse anyone else?

    No confusion, the perverts should be shot now before doing anymore damage.  These are damaged subhumans and their gene pool needs to be eliminated for the safety of  others. When released from jail, by some idiot parole board they will rape pillage and kill till caught again and released again, the cycle just goes on & on, stick a needle in them now, it’s the only why to keep society safe from these monstors

  • MISS.S

    Athena: Either they’re capable of understanding consequence and exercising good judgment… or they’re not.

    Right…but my point is exactly the same. Regardless of age, they know shoving a hockey stick up someones butt is not ok. WHich is the same reason YOU and I have not done it. Which seperates the degenerates from the normal people like you …and … me. Therefore…they do not deserve the benefit of the doubt..because they fail to understand the consequence. Ignorance is never an excuse. Failing to realize that you go to jail because you blow someone’s head off is not a reason NOT to send you to jail. However, The problem is that that in Jackass…those were friends, not  only friends but he made PLENTY Of money to have something DEAD shoved up his butt. I see that as voluntary and shouldn’t even be compared.. The kid is not an actor, is not paid and was not voluntary. He was in hockey after school. Again, what if this 13 yr old kid was murdered in the process? Would it be overlooked because they failed to realize the repercussions of raping someone with an inanimate object that is 4 feet long? 
    IGNORANCE IS NEVER AN EXCUSE…..
    There were no adults here, no paid actors, just kids at an after school program.
    And yes throw them in the slammer till their dicks fall off. I am totally ok with that. I don’t care if his mother IS a police officer of the 2nd one. She should have taught her son better than to rape his teammates.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Athena: I get what you’re saying – obviously, sodomy of this nature IS wrong at any age. But it doesn’t carry the same stigma as it did when Morbid was a kid.

    I asked my 13-year-old about this. He was with a group of his friends. They told me that for a boy to mess with another boy’s asshole for any reason was – in there words – gay.

  • MISS.S

    Morbid: I asked my 13-year-old about this. He was with a group of his friends. They told me that for a boy to mess with another boy’s asshole for any reason was – in there words – gay.

    Morbid, you are the only one to make me laugh on this topic. Kudos to you!

  • Deety

    MISS.S: No it doesn’t…I don’t know about you but when I was 14 I knew full and well what was the difference between right and wrong. And if you say you didn’t know that raping someone with a hockey stick is wrong,…you have a very low IQ and obviously are developmentally disabled. They are being charged as adults because of the specific Malice and Forethought of holding someone down and raping them anally.

    #1, the legal term you meant is “malice aforethought”, not malice AND forethought, and it doesn’t mean what you think.

    #2, anyone who could read what I wrote and come to the conclusion that I think anally raping someone with a hockey stick is okay should be cautious throwing around the terms “low I.Q.” and “developmentally disabled.” Just sayin’…

    My comment was about the difference in how we view people of this age. If I, as a 30 year old woman, were to have consentual sex with one of these guys (and get caught), I would get posted on the front page and denounced as a sexual predator, a pedophile, a pervert, and a rapist. This is because a 14 year old is a child,  incapable of consenting to sex.

    On the other hand, when 14 year olds do something like this, they are suddenly not wide-eyed children, but evil monsters who should be put down immediately.

    What if it turns out one of these particular guys DID have sex with a 30 year old woman. Should she be punished for taking advantage of an innocent child? Or is this particular 14 year old accountable for his own choices?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    I asked my 13-year-old about this. He was with a group of his friends. They told me that for a boy to mess with another boy’s asshole for any reason was – in there words – gay.

    Your 13 year old boy (and his buddies) is a statistically insignificant sample, considering he’s outnumbered by the, what, half a dozen + teenage boys who we’ve featured on this very site for this type of sodomy in the last couple years alone, not to mention the countless adult males who have been engaged in such hijinx out of association with the Jackass crew.

    That said, I’m glad to hear he feels that way.

    Right…but my point is exactly the same.

    No. Your point is black and white. My point is a matter of degree and, socially, legally and scientifically, more accurate.

    Responsibility and liability have been associated with specific age levels for as long as modern society as existed. It’s why prepubescent children aren’t arrested for assault in many jurisdictions. It’s why kids celebrate things like Bat Mitzvahs and quinceaneras at certain ages. It’s why kids under the age of 14 cannot legally work non-agricultural jobs; 14 and 15 year olds a limited to fewer work hours than 16 and 17 year olds. It’s why we can drive at 16, smoke at 18, have to wait until 21 to drink or own a hand gun and we don’t get an age-based insurance discount until 25. These things are all associated with degrees of development.

    Yes, there’s right and wrong, but there’s more at work here than that very black and white concept. Impulse control, the ability to exercise judgment and the ability to grasp consequences are executive functions, functions that don’t fully develop until you’re into adulthood.

    Often times, mentally retarded adults are described as having the “mental ability of a (insert minor age here) year old”. These adults are considered legitimately handicapped, even if they have the mentality of an individual as old as 16 or 17. This is because there are clear and well documented differences between the way a child or teenager’s brain works and that of an adult. We would not hold an adult of diminished capacity to the same standards of fully functioning adults… so why should we hold actual children to the same standards of fully functioning adults? It just doesn’t make sense.

  • Rockin Ma

    Middle school?  14 and 15 year olds?  That’s more like 9th and 10th grade.

    I really can’t compare what they did to a 30 year old having sex with a student. Makes no sense to me.  These were the kid’s peers. 
    I don’t know how their pictures were published.  That, I think should not have been done.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Athena: Your 13 year old boy (and his buddies) is a statistically insignificant sample, considering he’s outnumbered by the, what, half a dozen + teenage boys who we’ve featured on this very site for this type of sodomy in the last couple years alone, not to mention the countless adult males who have been engaged in such hijinx out of association with the Jackass crew.

    Just because we have featured it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been going since we have not. And as for Jackass…I’ve probably watched every show (sadly) and I am not recollecting any of the cast being an unwilling participant in anal rape. Please refresh my memory.

    My opinion? 3 of the boys are followers. One of them is a deviant. You can probably deduce the key players as to who instructed the kid be held down while he inserted a stick. I wouldn’t doubt the attacker’s dick was harder than a brick.

    Rockin Ma: I don’t know how their pictures were published. That, I think should not have been done.

    Why? I think it serves as a nice example, and warning, to any other retarded individuals out there who feel they have to follow along in some type of similar situation.

  • Rockin Ma

    Morbid:
    Why? I think it serves as a nice example, and warning, to any other retarded individuals out there who feel they have to follow along in some type of similar situation.

    Let me restate it.  I agree with you.  I don’t mind it at all.  I guess though I’m not used to it.  Is it because they are being charged as adults?  Mostly when I read about minors in the news, they just say a 15 year old minor.   Why the change for them I wonder. 

  • malq

    Morbid: Just because we have featured it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been going since we have not. And as for Jackass…I’ve probably watched every show (sadly) and I am not recollecting any of the cast being an unwilling participant in anal rape. Please refresh my memory.My opinion? 3 of the boys are followers. One of them is a deviant. You can probably deduce the key players as to who instructed the kid be held down while he inserted a stick. I wouldn’t doubt the attacker’s dick was harder than a brick. Why? I think it serves as a nice example, and warning, to any other retarded individuals out there who feel they have to follow along in some type of similar situation.

    The only assplay I remember in jackass was the hotwheel car up the butt when going for an Xray, and Stevo pinning his butcheeks together.
    These kids got this idea from somewhere. when I was 13 or 14, the asshole subject never came up with other guys. Come to think of it, it still doesn’t. Gay!  You can bet one kid was the leader and had 3 followers. That’s messed up at any rate.

  • Rockin Ma

    The only assplay I remember in jackass was the hotwheel car up the butt when going for an Xray, and Stevo pinning his butcheeks together.
    These kids got this idea from somewhere. when I was 13 or 14, the asshole subject never came up with other guys. Come to think of it, it still doesn’t. Gay!  You can bet one kid was the leader and had 3 followers. That’s messed up at any rate.

    I don’t know, big burly dudes rape in prison.  I don’t know where the bright idea of sticking something in that kid’s butt came from, but I doubt it was from TV. 

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    Just because we have featured it, doesn’t mean it hasn’t been going since we have not.

    Indeed.  It’s probably MUCH more pervasive than the two incidents (that I recall) that we’ve featured.  My point was not to illustrate that the practice is socially acceptable – only to illustrate that it’s got less of a stigma than it did 25 years ago, when homosexual behavior was more frowned upon than it is today and behavior like this wasn’t exhibited by popular skate crews (maybe it never surfaced on Jackass – I mighta been mistaken – but it certainly happened on Bam’s Santa movie). 

    My opinion? 3 of the boys are followers. One of them is a deviant. You can probably deduce the key players as to who instructed the kid be held down while he inserted a stick. I wouldn’t doubt the attacker’s dick was harder than a brick.

    I didn’t see that coming.  I’m in full agreeance.  With a proper course of juvenile justice (a decently long sentence, say, ’til 21 and a focus on intensive therapy, something they won’t get in “the pen”), three out of four of these kids will grow up to be productive members of society.  That makes more sense to me than locking them all up “until their dicks fall off” or shooting them. 

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    <blockquote>Let me restate it.  I agree with you.  I don’t mind it at all.  I guess though I’m not used to it.  Is it because they are being charged as adults?  Mostly when I read about minors in the news, they just say a 15 year old minor.   Why the change for them I wonder. </blockquote>

    The matter of protecting minor victims is generally the result of state confidentiality laws.  These laws don’t commonly include minor defendants, certainly not those charged as adults.  So, the choice to either publish or withhold the identities of minor defendants is often left up to the particular media outlet, if I understand it correctly.

  • thinkgoat

    Athena: Often times, mentally retarded adults are described as having the “mental ability of a (insert minor age here) year old”.These adults are considered legitimately handicapped, even if they have the mentality of an individual as old as 16 or 17.This is because there are clear and well documented differences between the way a child or teenager’s brain works and that of an adult.We would not hold an adult of diminished capacity to the same standards of fully functioning adults… so why should we hold actual children to the same standards of fully functioning adults?It just doesn’t make sense.

    Therein lies the problem.  Could it not be argued that anyone that committs a crime has some form of  “diminished capacity”?  

    And as for the younger generation being systematically desensitized to the stigma placed upon sodomy because their “heroes” don’t have a problem with it is one of the most ludicrous notions I have heard.  A 15-year-old male, without a single doubt, should have a clear idea that holding down another male while sticking a broom stick up his ass is WRONG.  I guarantee my 7 year old daughter could come to this conclusion with absolutely NO prompting from me.

    I cannot abide adjusting laws (and penalties for breaking such laws due to the “new society’s” skewed morality and sensibilities) because a bunch of over-paid morons on a TV show making children believe sodomy is yet another fact of life.  Children do know better.

    Case specific, these four young men, at 15, knew what they were doing was completely wrong.  Regardless of how funny getting a reindeer’s dick stuck up someone’s ass may seem on TV.

  • http://www.myspace.com/aprilamber April

    Wow…just….wow.  Wonder what these boy’s home lives are like.  I am picturing abusive, alcoholic fathers and whore – ish drunken mothers.  That ma noth even been the case but their actions are a reflection of their parents as well.

    I sure hope my son doesn’t grow up to be one of the “repressed, self loathing homosexuals”.

  • http://www.myspace.com/aprilamber April

    I like this comment from the source link:

    “the only difference between these 4 animals and ted bundy…bundy was good looking..”

  • Kalehue

    Morbid:
    My opinion? 3 of the boys are followers. One of them is a deviant. You can probably deduce the key players as to who instructed the kid be held down while he inserted a stick. I wouldn’t doubt the attacker’s dick was harder than a brick.

    Pretty sad that three of those kids are so lacking in self-esteem that they’d go along with something like this, but I’ll bet this assessment is right on the money.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    Therein lies the problem. Could it not be argued that anyone that committs a crime has some form of ”diminished capacity”?

    No, not actually. But even that is beside the point. We’re talking about a significantly diminished capacity, here – children deemed so incapable, they enjoy “protected” status, unable and disallowed to function as adults. Thus, to treat them as children when they do good and adults when they do bad defies very basic logic.

    And as for the younger generation being systematically desensitized to the stigma placed upon sodomy because their “heroes” don’t have a problem with it is one of the most ludicrous notions I have heard. A 15-year-old male, without a single doubt, should have a clear idea that holding down another male while sticking a broom stick up his ass is WRONG. I guarantee my 7 year old daughter could come to this conclusion with absolutely NO prompting from me.

    With all due respect, in this context, I care as little about your 7 year old daughter as I do Morbid’s son.

    Desensitization is a natural process. It’s why horror movies are exponentially more savage than anything they had 50 years ago. It why, just a single generation ago (my parents), hip swiveling was considered so vulgar, networks would refuse to air Elvis, but today, men and women simulating sex acts in music videos is common place. So, while you are free to hold the opinion that desensitization does not affect how wrong society considers something to be, history proves you unequivocally wrong.

    I wish I could find the article about the similar case I referenced in a previous post. If I recall correctly, a kid fell asleep at a buddy’s house, and his buddies sodomized him, treating it as a step above writing on someone’s face if they fall asleep with their shoes on. They maintained the entire time that the incident was a “prank”, and I think they truly saw it as such. That certainly doesn’t excuse it and, in this case, it was clearly done out of malice, but it does speak to just how wrong this kind of thing is seen as by teens. Do you see where I’m going with this? There are degrees of “wrong” and, while this act is clearly wrong, it’s obviously being viewed as less wrong than it once was, which will impact how likely teens are to engage in such behavior.

    I cannot abide adjusting laws (and penalties for breaking such laws due to the “new society’s” skewed morality and sensibilities) because a bunch of over-paid morons on a TV show making children believe sodomy is yet another fact of life. Children do know better.

    You appear to be arguing against a position I never took. I’m not talking about adjusting laws or sentencing. I’m arguing in favor of sentencing children as children. The distinction between the adult and juvenile justic systems does not rest on one’s ability to determine right from wrong. It hinges more on the lack of development that impairs a child’s ability to exercise impulse control, grasp consequence and resist peer pressure – all things that adults are much more capable of doing.

    The juvenile justice system was created because children are more likely to be successfully rehabilitated. That remains true. Charging them as adults when they are not adults is counter-productive.

  • MISS.S

    Athena: No. Your point is black and white. My point is a matter of degree and, socially, legally and scientifically, more accurate.

    My point was , and as much fancy words you put in between it will never change… that 14 yr olds are not innocent little babies. They are walking, talking, breathing People. Not infants, not innocents. They are until they start deviant behavior. Since your stance is that you are more accurate let me school you on something.
    At the age of 6 i was raped by a 12 yr old. YES a 12 yr old. This continued on up till the age of 16…by a 22yr old. So do not tell ME at 12 this person was an innocent…someone who should be forgiven because they were 12.
    This person grew up to be a counselor at a home for challenged girls, in the foster care system. Think about that….no record of any sex offenses …..and he’ s in the care of OVERNIGHT…underage girls. Now if you think for ONE minute that at the age of 14 that they will not CONTINUE to either rape, rob, control, or terrify someone else YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. So your comment about being correct in fact is off base, and MY FACTS have proven you wrong. This begins in early age, murderers start of killing animals as children, and rapists start off with control and terrorizing as a “starter-crime”.  Do you see now why I don’t care about your “statistics”? Because I AM a statistic.  And do you know what happened to this person who raped me for 10 years? NOTHING because he was a MINOR when it was reported. So he raped me for the next few years until I stopped it when I stood up and refused to let this go on. And do you know what CPS did? NOTHING NOT A THING. So go ahead tell me how I am wrong and 14 yr olds are innocent again?

  • Abroad

    Kalehue:
    Pretty sad that three of those kids are so lacking in self-esteem that they’d go along with something like this, but I’ll bet this assessment is right on the money.

    Lacking in self esteem? Worried they could be next, more likely.

  • MISS.S

    And also, don’t make me go over the PAIN, EMBARASSMENT,  HUMILIATION, DEPRESSION, SELF BLAMING, SELF HATRED, AND THE PHYSICAL PAIN that this little 13 yr old boy went through. There is NOTHING that we can do to remove that. And the only compensation for the damage that is done; is JAIL TIME!

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    My point was , and as much fancy words you put in between it will never change… that 14 yr olds are not innocent little babies. They are walking, talking, breathing People. Not infants, not innocents. They are until they start deviant behavior. Since your stance is that you are more accurate let me school you on something.
    At the age of 6 i was raped by a 12 yr old. YES a 12 yr old. This continued on up till the age of 16…by a 22yr old. So do not tell ME at 12 this person was an innocent…someone who should be forgiven because they were 12.
    This person grew up to be a counselor at a home for challenged girls, in the foster care system. Think about that….no record of any sex offenses …..and he’ s in the care of OVERNIGHT…underage girls. Now if you think for ONE minute that at the age of 14 that they will not CONTINUE to either rape, rob, control, or terrify someone else YOU ARE SADLY MISTAKEN. So your comment about being correct in fact is off base, and MY FACTS have proven you wrong. This begins in early age, murderers start of killing animals as children, and rapists start off with control and terrorizing as a “starter-crime”. Do you see now why I don’t care about your “statistics”? Because I AM a statistic. And do you know what happened to this person who raped me for 10 years? NOTHING because he was a MINOR when it was reported. So he raped me for the next few years until I stopped it when I stood up and refused to let this go on. And do you know what CPS did? NOTHING NOT A THING. So go ahead tell me how I am wrong and 14 yr olds are innocent again?

    Not only are you clearly an intellectual-hater, you’re one of those people that gives out WAY too much personal information. Awesome.

    Perhaps you care to note that the word “innocent” did not appear in any of my posts prior to this one. At no point did I assert that these boys were innocent, or even that they should not get punished. I simply maintain that juveniles should be charges as juveniles and adults should be charged as adults. I apologize if my “fancy words” confused you. So, while you’re busy grossly misunderstanding me, I’ll point out the fact that, as unfortunate as your experience was, it doesn’t apply to every offender and it certainly doesn’t apply to this case.

  • MISS.S

    Athena: Not only are you clearly an intellectual-hater, you’re one of those people that gives out WAY too much personal information. Awesome. Perhaps you care to note that the word “innocent” did not appear in any of my posts prior to this one. At no point did I assert that these boys were innocent, or even that they should not get punished. I simply maintain that juveniles should be charges as juveniles and adults should be charged as adults. I apologize if my “fancy words” confused you. So, while you’re busy grossly misunderstanding me, I’ll point out the fact that, as unfortunate as your experience was, it doesn’t apply to every offender and it certainly doesn’t apply to this case.

    Was age not the discussion? Particularly the age of the Offender, and your position which is juvenile justice? Um ok lets see, my case: juvenile offender……. age 12….. ok check and check.   So as both instances had an underage offender how does this not apply?AND…there  are no laws currently that appropriately  treat and or sentence them to time/treatment …..the ONLY other option is Adult Jail. So how does this not apply if to the exact topic?
    If you’re upset that I proved you wrong its ok to walk away with your tail between your legs…you don’t have to quote the WHOLE article people CAN read.

  • MISS.S

    It also makes me sad how you treat survivors of sexual assault by insulting them while they share their story. The voice of so many of the children we see on this site.

  • MISS.S

    Actually ya know what? I don’t need to be insulted for my life. This is what happened and for you to say what you did personally offends me. I won’t come here anymore. I gave my opinion and my experience. If this is how you treat people who share their story this is obviously not the place for me. Have a good day bashing rape survivors.. I guess if that makes your day KUDOS to you!

  • SumrLilli

    I have an 11 year old son.  I have a friend whose 14 year old son was sodomized by team mates as a “hazing” incident. I have given this subject a lot of thought. 

    The sexuality of the boys is irrelevant.  The whole age factor is irrelevant.  If anyone sodomized my son AGAINST HIS WILL  – in a group or otherwise  – AT ANY AGE, I cannot tell you what I would do to them. 

    An unwelcome sodomy is a violation that cannot be compared to an unlawful seduction.

    I’d be pissed if someone overage seduced my son – very pissed. 

    But sodomized him against his will???????????????

    Really, so kids have been exposed to that behavior……… Desensitized…………..

    Ok, I can buy that.  Maybe it’s not as hard to watch as it once was.

    But to perpetrate??????  That takes a driving force. 

    My opinion – the driving force of evil.

    Does anyone who has a child disagree?

  • Lucy

    MISS.S – Although there are many opinions shared on this blog (many different from your own), I would encourage you to continue to share.  You are correct, there are many survivors that share on this website and I encourage you to bring real life experience and feelings to the table.  Your voice and others, hopefully, will re-sensitize (if that is a word) these cases.  Anyway just don’t want you to get too discouraged.  Your thoughts and opinions matter!

  • 2 boys mom in NC

    SumrLilli:
    I have an 11 year old son.  I have a friend whose 14 year old son was sodomized by team mates as a “hazing” incident. I have given this subject a lot of thought. 
    The sexuality of the boys is irrelevant.  The whole age factor is irrelevant.  If anyone sodomized my son AGAINST HIS WILL  – in a group or otherwise  – AT ANY AGE, I cannot tell you what I would do to them. 
    An unwelcome sodomy is a violation that cannot be compared to an unlawful seduction.
    I’d be pissed if someone overage seduced my son – very pissed. 
    But sodomized him against his will???????????????
    Really, so kids have been exposed to that behavior……… Desensitized…………..
    Ok, I can buy that.  Maybe it’s not as hard to watch as it once was.
    But to perpetrate??????  That takes a driving force. 
    My opinion – the driving force of evil.
    Does anyone who has a child disagree?

    Don’t disagree at all.  I have two boys myself.  I’d kill right now for either of them.  But you know what, if one of my sons ever did something like this I do believe I would beat the shit out of him before I put his ass in a mental ward to see what the fuck was wrong with him.
    Awful situation all the damn way around!

  • ecvmanzo

    I agree with you too, SumrLilli. I have 3 sons and if one of them was attacked like this boy, my momma claws would most definitely come out. Not to say it would make the situation better, cause it would not. But that would be my reaction.

    Two years ago, I was called by my son’s middle school to inform me that he was attacked by a group of boys at random. It was about 9:45 am, and the incident had occurred at 7:45ish am. My son’s face was swollen, his nose was fractured, and the side of his head was bleeding and swollen. He hadn’t received any medical attention, now were the authorities called.

    When I showed up at the school, like a bat straight out of hell, I find out that he was attacked by a group of boys that were initiating another in their street gang. To make a long damn story short, I went to town on several people, and boy’s mom included. Now granted it’s not sodomizing, but had it been that, I would be featured on the Dreamin Demon for sure!
     

  • proudmom3boys

    what a sad situation for all involved…. the victim will spend years recovering frm this if he recovers at all…
    kids can be so cruel..

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    MISS.S, didn’t you say your attacker was never charged? If so, it had nothing to do with my point, which is that juveniles should be charged as juveniles.

    AND…there are no laws currently that appropriately treat and or sentence them to time/treatment …..the ONLY other option is Adult Jail.

    Hey! You finally made a point that actually counters MY point! Of course, I’ll refer you back to my intial post where I state the answer to this is bolstering juvenile sentencing, not charging kids as adults.

    As for the rest, spare me the pity party. If you want to throw your experience in my face to “prove a point” in a hostile manner, there are consequences. What, because you were victimized as a kid, I’m supposed to handle you with kid gloves even though you’re being blatantly snotty to me simply for having a different opinion? Fuck that. You’re an adult, I’m an adult, and you should know by now that pulling punches and then hiding behind your victimization is a cheap tactic.

    I was victimized as a child and, not only do I not detail the experience for total strangers, I certainly don’t expect people to treat me differently after they hear it.

    But to perpetrate?????? That takes a driving force. My opinion – the driving force of evil. Does anyone who has a child disagree?

    While I don’t really subscribe to the concepts of “good and evil” as they relate to the human condition, I do generally agree, and it doesn’t take having kids to see that something is seriously wrong with these boys. At least one of them is heinously mean-spirited and abusive. The rest of them are followers. My point is that, in the juvenile system, there may still be hope for the followers. If they spend any significant amount of time in the adult system, however – a system notorious for turning criminals into even better criminals – these followers will undoubtedly find individuals even worse than this ring leader to follow.

    Children and the adult justice system are no more compatible than women and urinals. It wasn’t designed for them, it won’t account for the very obvious differences between them and it’s unlikely to result in a productive experience.

  • Rockin Ma

    Randall John Moye, 14; Raymond A. Price-Murray, 14; Lee Louis Myers, 14; and Diemante J. Roberts, 15, were arrested at the school Wednesday on sexual battery and false imprisonment charges.
    On April 30, Hillsborough County sheriff’s deputies say Moye and Myers pinned the victim on a locker room floor at the school while Roberts and Price-Murray raped him with a broom handle and hockey stick.
    The four have been removed from school, although no final decision has been made about their school status.

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/may/12/121736/principals-told-be-more-vigilant-following-rape-in/news-breaking/

  • AMinFH

    Im not getting in the middle of this debate of whether to charge as juveniles or adults…just feel the need to comment that if we should be charging juveniles as such then perhaps we need to reevaluate how they are punished if it doesnt seem like it is harsh enough or a deterent?  I am not sure how it works anyway- if a juvenile is charged as an adult, dont they still get released at 21?  Nathaniel Abraham was the youngest person charged as an adult (for murder he committed at age 11.)  He supposedly functioned at a level 3-4 years younger than his age due to diminished mental capacity.  What would be the alternative to charging a juvenile as such- a lesser punishment/no punishment?  Any ideas???

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    Just feel the need to comment that if we should be charging juveniles as such then perhaps we need to reevaluate how they are punished if it doesnt seem like it is harsh enough or a deterent?I am not sure how it works anyway- if a juvenile is charged as an adult, dont they still get released at 21?

    Good questions. No, juveniles charged as adults don’t get out at 21 still. That’s the whole reason for charging them as adults – to get around sentencing caps. As for reevaluating the effectiveness of the juvenile system, you should know that there are myths associated with charging juveniles as adults.

    Myth #1: Juveniles charged as adults serve more time.

    In fact, while juveniles are sentenced to more time in adult courts, they generally serve – like most offenders – only a fraction of their sentence. This often amounts to LESS time than they would have served in juvie.

    Myth #2: Kids sentenced as adults are less likely to reoffend.

    Actually, the two studies done on the recidivism rates of juveniles who’ve been through the adult system found that these kids reoffend sooner AND more often than those who went through the juvenile system.

    So, while I do disagree with sentencing caps for the particularly heinous crimes (confirmed sociopaths guilty of multiple murders should not be released at any time, especially not because the juvenile justice system put the limit at 25), there is NO logical reason to sentence kids as adults. It ultimately does more harm than good.

    Education and therapy have been proven repeatedly as the most effective means of rehabilitation. Sure, not everyone can be rehabilitated, but A LOT of juveniles CAN. Research shows that the majority of child murders, for example, don’t generally reoffend.

  • MISS.S

    Here we go again, I didnt say put on kid gloves but you write a freaking essay on how to make your sentences longer than actually saying something. My point was….he was already in the juvenile justice system, got sent to a foster home, and as soon as he was 18 he was out again. No jail, no treatment no nothing. So if the choices are the following :
    1. charged as an adult with possible jail time. or
    2. Juvenile court where he still gets to go home, smoke weed, go to school and live anormal daily live where he checks in with his counselor every now and again.
    Obviously the reality is that #2 is not punishment, and #1 is. So if that is the option? I absolutely 100% go with option #1.  As proven in my example… the underage person was not punished other than going to a foster home. He was still allowed to come home for extended visits where further instances occurred. Yay for wishing stuff is great and that we have a great juvi ( as we called it growing up because we were around it all the time… i should know) system for handling this type of stuff but we DONT.

    That is why they’re treated like adults; because of the severity of the crime.  As all the parents who supported me stated…and I agree, if that happened to my son or daughter, I would beat and kill the living shit out of that person. Period. END OF STORY. THere would be NO rehabilitation or treatment for the cute nice sweet innocent 14 yr old  cops son. NO WAY!
    But seriously have some respect for survivors, and if you areally are one , like you say…You would have some respect when someone shares their story. I don’t see you having the balls to share it. 
    And if this truly is about saving the kids… we either change the juvenile justice system, OR we continue to prosecute in adult court.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    Here we go again, I didnt say put on kid gloves but you write a freaking essay on how to make your sentences longer than actually saying something.

    Considering you’ve managed to completely misunderstand a big chunk of what I’ve said thus far, you can bet that I’m just saying more than you’re grasping. So, please, until you exhibit some proper syntax, leave the writing style critique out of it.

    As proven in my example… the underage person was not punished other than going to a foster home. He was still allowed to come home for extended visits where further instances occurred. Yay for wishing stuff is great and that we have a great juvi ( as we called it growing up because we were around it all the time… i should know) system for handling this type of stuff but we DONT.

    Your example is nothing but a single example out of MILLIONS and, if you had ever worked in any proximity to the juvenile justice system, you would know that it is the exception to the rule.

    Now, since you have all these opinions on something with which you have very limited experience with, I implore you to review the FACTS.

    To date, only two studies have examined whether stricter transfer laws result in lowered juvenile crime rates. Both found that there was no evidence to support that the laws had the intended effect.

    Two recent large-scale studies indicate that juveniles who receive harsher penalties when tried as adults are not “scared straight.” In fact, after their release, they tend to reoffend sooner and more often than those treated in the juvenile system.

    This, MISS.S, is why creating opinions from nothing but personal experience is a bad idea. You have no way of knowing whether or not your experience is common place or rare. Yours appears to have been rare.

    As all the parents who supported me stated…and I agree, if that happened to my son or daughter, I would beat and kill the living shit out of that person. Period. END OF STORY.

    You and the other parents who stated similar positions have simply proven yourself irrational and emotionally-driven. Great, your kid gets victimized, so you go and RE-victimize your kid by beating up the kid who did it to him, which would not only NOT undo the damage done to your child, but it would undoubtedly get you sent to prison.

    But seriously have some respect for survivors, and if you areally are one , like you say…You would have some respect when someone shares their story. I don’t see you having the balls to share it.

    Ugh… it makes me cringe to have to explain it to you. I really wish you had just dropped it, or at least left out the snide comment at the end. See how nicely I play with all the other people in this thread? We could have been civil.

    First off, respect is earned, not passed out like fuckin’ Halloween candy. If you recall, the way in which you “shared” your story was snotty and derisive (uh-oh, fancy word, again). You could be a goddamn Holocaust survivor and, if you’re going to be a bitch to me, you’re going to get treated as such in return.

    And, no, I don’t have respect for strangers who unnecessarily share their story. Those people come across as socially inept attention-seekers who wouldn’t recognize an appropriate exchange if it smacked them.

    Let me tell you a story that might help illustrate my perspective. A few years ago, a good friend of mine wanted to introduce me and my boyfriend to his brand new girlfriend. He brought her over and, as she and I were standing on the porch talking, she started in on how she was raped, recently. Horrified by the fact that his new girlfriend would share such personal information with a relative stranger, her boyfriend gave me wide eyes from over her shoulder (he was standing behind her) and mouthed, “I’m sorry!” Why? Because that shit is awkward and down right inappropriate. Our friend called some time after they left saying, “Oh my god! I’m so sorry! I have no idea she was one of those people…”

    Did I feel bad for her? Sure. I feel bad for you, too. But when you breach that kind of subject unnecessarily with people you don’t know very well, it’s uncomfortable for them (because it makes them feel bad for you!) and it makes you look like you’re unfamiliar with basic social etiquette. So, keep in mind the social ramafications of pulling the rape card in a crowd of strangers.

    Lastly, I share my story when it’s appropriate and necessary, like a dignified human being. Dignity prevents one from letting the rape flag fly at every opportunity, and it certainly prevents me from throwing it in people’s faces as some sort of “proof”. Luckily for you, dignity is an acquired skill. ;)

  • Rockin Ma

    At least in my state, people even through age 21 or so go to a specific prison for serious crimes.  It’s not a juvenile prison, or detention as we call it here which by the way is also complete with tiny little cells that contain toilet, sink and water fountain all in one unit. 
    The Manson Youth Institution is a level 4 high-security facility. It serves as the Department’s primary location for housing sentenced inmates under the age of 21. Recognizing the need to educate youth, staff provide a climate, which enhances inmate social skills, while reinforcing ethics, attitude and behavior valued by productive law-abiding citizens.
    The Manson Youth Institution houses male offenders ranging in age from 14 to 21 in ten separate buildings, each with three wings containing 12 cells, a day room, counselor offices and mini kitchen. Being the states’ only youth facility, it houses chronic disciplinary inmates, close custody program, mental health, high security and general population inmates who are involved in a wide variety of programs including educational, vocational and addiction services.
    In response to an increase in young population, a youthful offender mentoring program was established. Emphasis is placed on development of positive peer relationships, understanding criminal culture, substance abuse, basic life skills, employment counseling and release planning.

  • Rockin Ma

    Level four is a pretty high level.  The state only has one level five for the most serious offenders and prison trouble makers (adults only).  I’m satisfied this is a real prison for young offenders. 

  • AMinFH

    Good info…last night I remembered a guy from our neighborhood who shot 2 guys (murdering one) during a drug deal gone bad.  He is serving life in prison w/o chance for parole.  He is 36 now…  A girl he was with who was driving the car was charged as an accessory which is the same as commiting the actual murder.  She most recently won a multimillion dollar suit against the State of MI and had her sentence commuted due to sexual abuse suffered while in prison.  I find the whole thing fucked up.  The kicker was they just wanted some money, didnt have drugs to sell.  I used to think at 16 you know better.  But looking back over the years I didnt know anything at 16.  I didnt kill anyone but then again I didnt have the access to a gun.  I dont have one now b/c I am not responsible enough- I know killing someone is wrong but I snap too easy!

    To me it seems that dollars would be better spent on the education to prevent crime than to rehab after the fact.  I dont see that happening any time soon.

  • MadeaBecBec

    MISS.S:
    Actually ya know what? I don’t need to be insulted for my life. This is what happened and for you to say what you did personally offends me. I won’t come here anymore. I gave my opinion and my experience. If this is how you treat people who share their story this is obviously not the place for me. Have a good day bashing rape survivors.. I guess if that makes your day KUDOS to you!

    Please Please Stay!! I do think you are amazing  in your posts and sincerely hope that you realize how that is a blessing to others that have been in your shoes and some that haven’t as well! Also, I am totally in awe at how you retained the ability to think with the good sense that you do, Thank you for sharing with us, some of your story, it gives hope to many victims, let me assure you!!!
    Please DO NOT let one insensitive comment keep you from posting here on D’D, sometimes people trying to appear ‘overly’ genius through their opinions they post and are not considerate of  what they are actually putting down in their posts, it’s all about the debate and winning the argument!

    Statistics can be manipulated to reach any goal that a person or committee believes will bring in dollars, so I do not look at statistics on any one subject, especially when it comes to juvenile behaviour, I want to know each juveniles background (not how they were raised, but their personalities beforehand) and no statistical chart can give me that….
    In this case, All of them should be tried individually, in my opinion, not as a group even though the crime was committed that way!
    I can tell you, just by their mugshots, which one is the “Main” perp in this crime, the leader, so to speak, and his last name rhymes with BOY!! This is the ‘evil’ one and I figure he was born that way, not the way he was raised, however, the parents should’ve NOT ignored the warning signs……

    I’ll be praying for the victim to fully recover and become as successful and bright as Miss.S. ,ummmm, only Mister S. ;)

  • http://www.myspace.com/justdazin So Jaded

    The four Tampa middle-school students charged with sexually assaulting a classmate were released to the their parents with ankle bracelets so they can be electronically monitored.
    [...]
    State Department of Juvenile Justice spokesman Frank Penela said Wednesday the boys spent one night in a juvenile detention facility before being released to their parents. Prosecutors say the boys likely will be charged as adults.

    Link

  • biteme

    Athena: Good questions.No, juveniles charged as adults don’t get out at 21 still.That’s the whole reason for charging them as adults – to get around sentencing caps.As for reevaluating the effectiveness of the juvenile system, you should know that there aremyths associated with charging juveniles as adults.Myth #1:Juveniles charged as adults serve more time.In fact, while juveniles are sentenced to more time in adult courts, they generally serve – like most offenders – only a fraction of their sentence.This often amounts to LESS time than they would have served in juvie.Myth #2:Kids sentenced as adults are less likely to reoffend.Actually, the two studies done on the recidivism rates of juveniles who’ve been through the adult system found that these kids reoffend sooner AND more often than those who went through the juvenile system.So, while I do disagree with sentencing caps for the particularly heinous crimes (confirmed sociopaths guilty of multiple murders should not be released at any time, especially not because the juvenile justice system put the limit at 25), there is NO logical reason to sentence kids as adults.It ultimately does more harm than good. Education and therapy have been proven repeatedly as the most effective means of rehabilitation.Sure, not everyone can be rehabilitated, but A LOT of juveniles CAN.Research shows that the majority of child murders, for example, don’t generally reoffend.

    “a majority of child murders don’t generally reoffend”
    So do we know which one’s it’ll be?
    Can we move them to your neighborhood?
    Really not into rolling the dice with murderers around my kids to see which reoffend
    They committed the crime let them be punished not my neighborhood, Family and friends, they want to be out of jail tell them not to kill.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    Statistics can be manipulated to reach any goal that a person or committee believes will bring in dollars, so I do not look at statistics on any one subject, especially when it comes to juvenile behaviour, I want to know each juveniles background (not how they were raised, but their personalities beforehand) and no statistical chart can give me that….

    Are you kidding me? WOW. You know, I expect the “statistics can be twisted” crap from a lot of people, but from you? Disappointing.

    These statistics were cited by PBS. PBS! Tell me, Madea, what agenda could PBS of all organizations possibly have, with their Sesame Street and their NOVA…? Furthermore, these are four completely seperate studies with very clear methology that all come to roughly the same conclusion. Are you suggesting it’s some vast conspiracy to “bring in dollars”? It benefits the prison-industrial complex MORE to charge kids as adults. That actually costs MORE money for tax payers.

    If you want to lash out at me, fine, but for christ’s sake – Review the statistics before you discount them.

    …sometimes people trying to appear ‘overly’ genius through their opinions they post…

    Let me tell you a little story. Actually, anyone who has considered taking a shot at me simply because I use “fancy words” or come off as “overtly genius” should take note:

    I started kindergarten when I was 4 because my parents had accidentally had my aptitude tested and the psychologist told them I was 99th percentile. In kindergarten, I was shunned because I wasn’t like everyone else. I could already read and do basic math. Instead of playing “house”, I wanted to built intricate tracks for marbles to race down. I didn’t have any speech impediments and, to make things worse, even though I was younger than everyone, I was taller than everyone. No one wanted to play with me.

    Upon going into first grade, I was ushered right into the “Challenge Program”, a program for other 99th percentile students. Even though I was surrounded by kids like me, it wasn’t long at all before the rest of the kids – the “normal” kids, as they liked to call themselves (suggesting we were abnormal) – targeted us. We would get teased, excluded, even assaulted on the playground… simply for being different. Do you have any idea what it’s like as an elementary school kid to be forced to stay amongst your classmates, eat at the same lunch table, play in the same corner of the playground, because of something you have no control over? The parents of those students weren’t much better – showing up to school board meetings, demanding that the Challenge Program be disbanded because, get this, it made their kids feel bad. Their kids? Jonathan over there wasn’t the one who got pushed onto the concrete at lunch recess…

    Middle school wasn’t any reprieve. Because of our advanced education, we were placed into classes a grade-level or two ahead of us. Even worse, because the Challenge Program didn’t extend into middle school, the students I had grown up with where spread out over multiple area middle schools. We no longer had the power-in-numbers thing going for us. Do you know how kids treat kids who are bumped up a couple grades? Even if you get lucky and get compassionate classmates who don’t go out of their way to make fun of you, they still don’t want to partner with you.

    Now, I wouldn’t change anything about my school career. I might have gotten tortured by the “normal” students, but I received a world-class education. But as you can see, you and MISS.S are nothing more than the two most recent additions to a long, LONG line of people who have taken aim at my intellect without stopping to think that, just maybe, it’s something that I can’t help. Making these snide little comments, suggesting that I should dumb down my rhetoric – it’s much like taking a shot at a mentally-handicapped kid for not being able to pretend that he’s smarter. You walk around all day dumbing yourself down and let me know how easy it is. Not only is it incredibly difficult, it makes you feel a little dirty for having to, too. Yeah, don’t think I haven’t tried.

    I’m going to use “fancy words”, and I’m going to come off as pretty intelligent when I post – maybe even “overtly” so. That’s WHO I AM. By taking shots at that, even subtle ones, you’re taking shots at something I can’t help. You should be real fucking proud about that.

    So, if anyone else wants to make snarky little comments about my vocabularly or the fact that I favor logic over emotion, let me save you the trouble by giving you a big “FUCK YOU” in advance. Glad we could get that out of the way.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=12 Athena

    “a majority of child murders don’t generally reoffend”
    So do we know which one’s it’ll be?
    Can we move them to your neighborhood?
    Really not into rolling the dice with murderers around my kids to see which reoffend
    They committed the crime let them be punished not my neighborhood, Family and friends, they want to be out of jail tell them not to kill.

    I see what you’re saying, biteme, the fact of the matter is, very few juvenile offenders have ever been sentenced to life in prison, and the practice MAY even get outlawed (we’re the only country in the WORLD that sentences juvenile offenders to life in prison w/o parole). They will ALL get out eventually. So doesn’t it make sense to send them where they will be locked up longer and get better rehabilitation? I would think so.

  • AMinFH

    Athena: (we’re the only country in the WORLD that sentences juvenile offenders to life in prison w/o parole).

    Thanks for that statement- I wasnt aware of that.

  • easilydistracted

    Let me begin by saying I by no means am defending these 4 boys.

    However I can’t help but be curious as to what the ‘act’ was that they are considering as rape.  Was it actual penetration (or actual attempted penetration…since it was supposedly a  hockey stick and/or broom) . ..or  was it one or two mean spirited jabs with a broom handle (once again NOT defending those actions) over a pair of jeans.
    Once again I don’t condone the bullying nor do I condone whatever it was they did.  Not far from where I live here in Texas something very similar happened at school in a locker room (hint: teachers/coaches SUPERVISE your locker rooms and put the damn brooms in the janitor closet). ..A couple of older 8th grade football boys were hazing/teasing a couple of younger 6th grade football boys by jabbing at their ass area, as they walked by after practice , with a broom . The boys from my understanding were dressed at the time in football uniforms. While I don’t condone this behavior , I don’t consider it rape either..
    I feel like there is a major difference in whether these boys can be rehabilitated based on whether they were just being mean spirited and  ‘jabbing’ at the boy…vs. whether they were literally participating in trying to actually penetrate the boy with a broom.
    I have 3 boys (age 26,18 and 5) I also have a stepson 13. So I’ve had many kids at the house over the years.  I just would hate to see these boys labeled as rapists/perverts  until the whole story comes out. I hope they ALL can get some counseling.

  • http://www.myspace.com/justdazin So Jaded

    Four teenage boys in Tampa, Florida, were charged as adults Wednesday on allegations of sexually assaulting a 13-year-old boy.
    [...]

    Prosecutor Kimberly Hindman described to the court how two defendants held down the victim while the other two defendants violently sodomized him with the sticks. “The victim screamed and cried, telling them to stop,” Hindman said.

    The prosecutor said the victim’s screams could be heard outside the boys’ locker room at Walker Middle School, in southern Tampa, where the allegedly assaults took place.

    Multiple people witnessed the attacks, but no one reported the incidents, including the victim, Hindman said.

    [...]

    When school officials questioned the defendants, all four admitted in a written statement sexually assaulting the victim.

    The defendants “all implicated themselves in a sexual-battery incident,” Hindman said.

    The victim did not acknowledge the attacks until questioned. School officials contacted authorities, who initially charged the four as minors with sexual assault and false imprisonment.

    Several students witnessed the incidents over the two months, said the prosecutor, who added that she could not understand why no one reported the attacks.

    The victim made a statement in court, telling the judge how his father was angry and his mother couldn’t stop crying when they heard about the attacks.

    Defense attorneys told the judge their clients were good students and had never been in trouble before. Attorney Tim Taylor, representing Randall Moye, said his client’s family is among the finest in the community.

    Taylor presented six character witnesses, including his client’s mother, Jeanne Myers, who said her son wants to attend college. The prosecutor asked her about her son’s written statement about the attacks. Myers said her son described clowning around in the locker room with a hockey stick. She added that he told her about holding down the victim for a few seconds.

    [...]

    The judge set bond for each defendant at $15,000, with ankle monitors for all but one, who has left the area. The four boys were taken into custody in court and booked into the adult jail. The judge warned the four to have no contact with one another, the victim or any witnesses in the case.

    The defendants could spend up to 120 years in prison if convicted on all four counts.

    Link

     

  • tutkill

    what a sorry bunch

  • Taz

    Part of me feels sorry for them, but only because they are so young and this will pretty much trash the rest of there life up for them. We are talking about 4 felony counts, hanging over there heads the rest of there life’s. Plus possible sex offended registration.   The rest of me hates them for what they did to that 13-year-old boy. They went way beyond hazing into something thats pretty fucked up. 

    I found them all listed with mugs on the Hillsborough county jail section.  Two of them have GPS tracking ( Myers & Price-Murray ). 

    Moye doesnt have one and is free to come and go and even has a job.  He must have been the one who snitched.  ( 15K bail )

    Roberts is still in jail and has been since the arrest, don’t know why him.  He doesn’t even have a bail amount set.  Looks like  Myers & Price-Murray got out on a “PR” but a stipulation was had to have GPS tracking.

  • Taz

    Oops, I missed S.J. earlier post,  not used to the new format.  My Bad.

  • Unamused

    Ah…. The love that dares not speak its name.

  • MISS.S

    Update:

    The rapists have been charged with 4 counts of rape over a 2 month period of time.

    They are not one time oopsies…didn’t mean to take a joke too far this is just hockey team hazing…. type guys.

    4 rapes…over 2 months. Sounds like they are practicing to be career rapists.

    Has anyone actually seen how huge the end of a hockey stick is?

    That’s all I have to say.

  • 2 boys mom in NC

    Miss S,
    Thanks for the update. This one really pissed me off! No fucking excuses. I hope they get the appropriate punishment. Thank you again!

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Update on this one:
    http://www.abcactionnews.com/news/local/story/Walker-Middle-School-victim-says-he-was-raped-in-f/Wlxhu14l-kaKLxPRh3pXMQ.cspx

    Seems as if Randall John Moye and Lee Louis Myers did the holding while Diamante Roberts and Raymond Price-Murray did the actual raping. They were charged as adults in the crime

    http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/06/04/florida.sexual.assault/

    Lastly, you can read all four of the accused statements here, just be prepared for a level of idiocy that may just make your brain hurt:

    http://media.tbo.com/pdf/073109walker.pdf

  • Veronica

    So, if anyone else wants to make snarky little comments about my vocabularly or the fact that I favor logic over emotion, let me save you the trouble by giving you a big “FUCK YOU” in advance. Glad we could get that out of the way.

    Athena, I have noticed before that people give you crap for refusing to proclaim “Kill ‘em all” on every thread and just sounding intelligent in general. Anti-intellectualism really gets on my nerves. It’s like those kids who gave you crap in school never actually grow out of that. I actually went through a lot of the same stuff. I moved to Tennessee from Maryland in 7th grade (TERRIBLE age) and the level of education in the South was so much lower. I went from my second year of Spanish and introductory geometry, etc. to doing spelling words. I had the highest grade in every single subject. At 8th grade graduation, they gave out awards for the highest grade in all the subjects and I had to get up for every single one. People were shooting serious eye daggers at me, including a lot of the parents. It sucked. Problem was, once the teachers figured out that I probably knew most of the answers, they always called on me. Being smart resulted in me being one of the most hated people in the entire school, despite the fact that it was mostly the result of years of superior education in Maryland. So yeah, it really bugs me to hear ADULTS complaining about supposedly stuck-up “intellectuals.” People SHOULD aspire to know more than they do, and that includes you, me and everyone else. A large knowledge base does not make one a snob.

  • MadeaBecBec

    Lastly, you can read all four of the accused statements here, just be prepared for a level of idiocy that may just make your brain hurt:

    http://media.tbo.com/pdf/073109walker.pdf

    Too many hockey pucks to their heads? And not enough classroom time?
    I was totally wrong about Moye boy being the instigator, reads as if all the Assclowns placed most of the blame on Diemante.
    I have to wonder, why didn’t any of the other players that witnessed this come forward on behalf of the victim?

  • redsaid

    Probably for fear of the same happening to them!

  • Veronica

    Something is seriously wrong when a 14-year-old isn’t capable of writing a couple of even semi-coherent paragraphs. But it’s not surprising considering the level of (non)literacy we see from “adult” visitors to this site at times.

  • tutkill

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2009/nov/14/140023/na-new-talk-of-abuse-at-walker-emerges/

    All four defendants are charged as adults. They have pleaded not guilty and have since been released on bail. While they await trial, the teens must wear court-ordered GPS tracking monitors.

    A status conference in this case is set for Jan. 14

    Wonder if they shoved that GPS monitors up their asses????