I'm not sure where I stand on all of this...but I do know for sure that the Burger King mascot guy scares the ever living bejeesy out of me! That weird smile and giant chin...ugh!

My son has a concealed carry permit. He took hours of special classes and practiced many times at the local shooting range. I would say he is an excellent shot.
When you think of many horrible situation such as Luby's cafeteria and McDonald's massacre, how many lives would have been saved if someone had a gun? At Luby's, a woman remembered she had a gun, but had left it in her car.
People with concealed carry permits have been trained exensively(at least in TN) so my son could handle the situation, I'm sure.
People are getting sick of being the victim in situations like this. I think it's high time the criminals got a taste of their own medicine!

We don't know from this that the "Samaritan" with a gun wasn't an off duty officer or soldier, or someone with actual training. Even so, most gun owners that are responsible enough to have the gun on thier person, LEGALLY, usually are confident that they know how, when, and where they would actually use it.
Judgement is a very personal thing, law enforcement is scrutinized on it on a daily basis from the words they say, to how they drive to a call, to how they choose to use force.
If this Samaritan did everything correct in his power and with his level of training, he cannot be held accountable for the actions of the Robber. If someone else had gotten hurt or killed, it would have been an unfortunate occurrance and I am sure the Samaritan could face personal liability or a civil suit, but under the under any good samaritan defense I have ever seen, he probably would not be held liable- Criminally or Civilly.

I, personally, understand and appreciate the right to keep and bear arms, and under the right circumstances, would appreciate that someone was trying to protect the public or employees in a situation like this. You just hope and pray that it isn't some over-aggressive moron-cop-wannabee is the one taking action, turning the scenario into his own personal version of Rambo to "save the day". I guess any good guy is better than an unpredictable bad guy though.

I think he's a vigilante idiot. This jack-off wanna be hero very well could have caused to be killed any number of patrons - whether by his own weapon or the suspects. Unless he is a trained LE officer, he had no right/duty to confront this guy. Keep your hand on your gun until the time this man becomes a "clear and present" danger (ie: aiming the gun at someone directly and threatening to pull the trigger) From what I've heard of incidents like this, the robber usually is "waving" the gun around - not aiming at anyone in particular.

If, by witness statements, I hear differently, my opinion might change. But as it stands, I disagree with his actions as they were reckless and endangered the public far more than the suspect did at the time.

I carry a firearm, concealed, for my own protection. Let me reiterate - for my OWN protection. If faced with the same situation, I most likely would've explored other avenues before utilizing my handgun. However, if it boiled down to killing an armed person in order to assure that my 4 year old daughter remained unharmed, I would not hesitate to draw and fire my weapon.

I don't know how the concealed carry licenses work in all states. I do know that there are some people that carry weapons that have no business carrying a slingshot, much less a firearm. However, I carry because I am confident in my abilities for accuracy and safety. My husband, a law enforcement officer, can also vouch for my abilities, since I often out-shoot him on the tactical courses. If I couldn't do that, my pistol would be left at home.

My issue isn't with the abilities of the concealed weapon owner, as much as it is the fact that they may be making a bad situation worse. Let's say that this particular person decided to engage the robber, and did in fact kill him. Bu instead of him taking three shots, a 18-year-old Burger King employee did because the robber was a shit shot. Now, does the family of the 18-year-old have grounds to sue the concealed weapon owner? Should the law charge the him with a crime?

Concealed weapons owners may be trained to shoot a gun. The may hit the bullseye every time they fire at a target. But they are not trained for situations. In this case, who knows...we have heard no eyewitness accounts about the events before the shooting took place. But I feel if you decide to take on the responsibility of owning a concealed weapon, and make a decision to produce that weapon for some perceived self-defense, then you better be willing to accept the consequences of those decisions including if one of the consequences is the death of an innocent person.

But they are not trained for situations.

Not necessarily by the terms of the permit, but often times, they are. Many shooting ranges offer stress training, something that is very popular among concealed carry licensees. It trains people to stay composed through the entire situation, from the minute a threat is posed until the cops are questioning after the fact. I'd link you to one, but they're all blocked by my company. :P

But I feel if you decide to take on the responsibility of owning a concealed weapon, and make a decision to produce that weapon for some perceived self-defense, then you better be willing to accept the consequences of those decisions including if one of the consequences is the death of an innocent person.

Legally, I'm not sure where a DA could go with that. All they could do is charge him with, perhaps, involuntary manslaughter, and hope that the jury find the perceived threat unreasonable. If the threat is deemed reasonable, any bystander casualty is just a tragic accident, and the man would be acquitted. The family of the deceased might have a wrongful death case in a civil court, though, which has much lighter scrutiny.

an_eye_for_an_eye, I can think of two reasons for the good Samaritan to get charged. If there were any rounds fired that did not hit the robber, that might fall under one of the endangerment laws. The other situation that comes to mind is if the good Samaritan was still considered in danger once the thief left the store.

Mind you, I support the actions of the good Samaritan. But the law can sometimes be a funny thing.

Not necessarily by the terms of the permit, but often times, they are. Many shooting ranges offer stress training, something that is very popular among concealed carry licensees

I live in NC. We have many people here, including myself, who own a firearm. We also have a friend here who regularly does the concealed weapon training. It is a day long. In all my years, I have yet to hear of anyone taking a stress class from a shooting range. Not saying that they don't, but shooting at the range here is a pretty common pastime.

But regardless, you bring up training that is "offered" were as a police officer is required. My point being, I accept the fact that there is a slim chance that I may be involved in the middle of a robbery in a public location. I shudder at t thinking of some of you morons whipping out the pistol you have in your waistband because you shot at a target one day.

Concealed weapons owners may be trained to shoot a gun. The may hit the bullseye every time they fire at a target. But they are not trained for situations.

That may be true, and it may not. Depends on the particular carrier. I train on a tactical course, which includes simmunitions training and situations such as multiple targets and surrounding activity on a LEA approved Police Officer's course. However, I do realize that I am most likely the exception, rather than the rule. It's a sticky situation all the way around.

Now, by "range", you Southerners aren't referring to soda cans lined up along a fence, right? ;)

I'm sure whether or not you take a stress couse varies widely by location. We've got two very comprehensive firearm training academies in the area. Oregon, which mandates safety training for concealed carry licensees, has an even better one. But I would agree that there are more licensees without that sort of training than with.

That aside, police have no constitutional duty to protect you and are rarely there when you need them. It is your duty and your duty solely to protect yourself. And those morons of which you speak foil an estimated 750,000 crimes annually. Also, I don't often read about concealed carry licensees hitting innocent bystanders in situations like this. Hell, this guy didn't even, and we're still talking about it.

Police in our state have a requirement to act if they are witness to a felony in progress. How they choose to act, however, is not specified.

I normally love it when robbers get what they deserve, but if I owned a gun and had it out in public the only way I would even think of using it is if someone was in a direct physical threat of violence or death. I would not fire a gun in public just over money. Let the guy go and let the police do their job.

Police in our state have a requirement to act if they are witness to a felony in progress. How they choose to act, however, is not specified.

Sure, I'm sure most, if not all states have similar requirements. But that requirement was tested constitutionally at the federal level and was found to be without merit.

Either way, the odds of an officer being available in a capacity to prevent a situation like this is nil, certainly slim enough to warrant an individual to take up for their own protection.

My issue isn’t with the abilities of the concealed weapon owner, as much as it is the fact that they may be making a bad situation worse. Let’s say that this particular person decided to engage the robber, and did in fact kill him. Bu instead of him taking three shots, a 18-year-old Burger King employee did because the robber was a shit shot. Now, does the family of the 18-year-old have grounds to sue the concealed weapon owner? Should the law charge the him with a crime?

I thought the laws of many states would allow the police to charge to armed robber with murder for the employee's death, as it occured as a result of his felony.

I didn't even think of that, Castille! You're absolutely right - that would be an option for any prosecutor in a state with a felony murder statute.

I carry a concealed weapon, and I'm proud of it. This scenario runs through my mind all the time. Well, not all the time, but it has played out.
Legally, I am well within my rights to defend myself or a third party if I feel serious bodily injury is imminent. This DOES NOT include stopping a robbery unless threat of violence has been put forward as an outcome. If all they're interested in is taking the money and leaving...HAVE THE DAMN MONEY. Sometimes you don't know. One minute the money, and next the bullets fly. In my case, with no clear threat, someone would have to get hurt before I could react.
Clear threat as defined by verbal or physical action taken to intimidate or otherwise pose direct harm by serious bodily injury. Holding a firearm by your side is NOT a clear threat. Aiming it at someone's head, however, is.

My son carries a concealed weapon which he has a permit for to protect his business. Now, he's never shot it one single time... even when he got robbed; instead, he pistol-whipped the man to a bloody pulp...lol Well, the man wouldn't stay down like my boy told him to!

I’m not sure where I stand on all of this…but I do know for sure that the Burger King mascot guy scares the ever living bejeesy out of me! That weird smile and giant chin…ugh!

ditto I jumped back a bit - not what a expected to see here.

All right, who Photoshopped BK man? Is that supposed to be blood? Cuz it isn't very blood colored.

It's one thing to carry a gun for protection (of yourself or others), it's another thing to decide to be a "hero" and put other people in greater danger. Chances are good the robber would have just taken the money and run, instead this turned into a gunfight.

I don't think it's fair to say that just because some people who CC take extra courses to be prepared for these situations, that most of them do. Plenty do not. And the "hero" in this case wasn't too competent- presumably the robber had no idea this guy was armed, and yet the guy got shot. This could have gone a lot worse.

This is why I don't agree that college students should be allowed to CC on campus. If someone goes psycho and starts shooting the place up, I don't think it will help to have a bunch of untrained yahoos running around armed. The ability to accurately shoot a piece of paper over and over is not the same as being able to handle these kinds of situations.

Now, by “range”, you Southerners aren’t referring to soda cans lined up along a fence, right?

Hey! :)

I’m not sure where I stand on all of this…but I do know for sure that the Burger King mascot guy scares the ever living bejeesy out of me! That weird smile and giant chin…ugh!

I hate that guy. In that one commercial he's just outside the window when that person wakes up in the morning. It freaks me out!!


Burger King is not worth it. Let him take the money, I think they 'll be alright. Now if there was other dangers such as trying to rob all the customers at gun point then maybe take action. I am curious to see more details on this story when they come out. For the record I am all for the right to bear arms.

Again, I think we're debating a relative non-issue, here. Concealed carry licensees stop thousands of crimes in the U.S. annually. I have searched and searched for a case where one of these people accidentally shot an innocent bystander. I can't find one. That doesn't mean it hasn't happened - I'm sure it has - I just don't think it's very common at all. It appears that, per capita, cops are responsible for far more bystander shootings than concealed carry licensees.

I also don't agree that someone should have to point a gun at me or someone else to consider them a threat. If a person is merely holding a gun and has used its presense as a threat, that's good enough for me.

With the practically non-existant crime rate associated with those with concealed carry permits, I would encourage any establishment (except for those serving alcohol) to welcome concealed carry licensees with proof of stress training.

I carry a concealed weapon, and I’m proud of it. This scenario runs through my mind all the time. Well, not all the time, but it has played out.
Legally, I am well within my rights to defend myself or a third party if I feel serious bodily injury is imminent. This DOES NOT include stopping a robbery unless threat of violence has been put forward as an outcome. If all they’re interested in is taking the money and leaving…HAVE THE DAMN MONEY. Sometimes you don’t know. One minute the money, and next the bullets fly. In my case, with no clear threat, someone would have to get hurt before I could react.
Clear threat as defined by verbal or physical action taken to intimidate or otherwise pose direct harm by serious bodily injury. Holding a firearm by your side is NOT a clear threat. Aiming it at someone’s head, however, is.

I concur with all of what you've said here, Rune, and I too have a CW/FL, and am a NRA certified firearms safety instructor. Nor am I ashamed to admit that each and every single time I leave my home and property, I am carrying at least one firearm, and a knife or two. ;)

I do this legally, for my personal safety, but if I were faced with a similar situation of clear threat as the one discussed here, I would not hesitate to fully empty my clip into center mass, drop mag, reload and repeat if necessary without a word of warning to the robber.
Most people who have been raised with firearms and/or are trained and comfortable around them, also know one of the first rules one learns in firearm safety is to "never point/aim your weapon unless you intend to use it".
That is one of the rules I shoot and carry by, so in that sense, I have to believe that every time someone threatens another by pointing a gun at them, that they also fully intend to use it, just as I myself would.
Legally carrying a firearm is a tremendous responsibility and it is not something to be taken casually under any circumstances. It is a personal safety precaution that, while I do prepare for it, actually using it to protect myself or another individual is something that I hope I never have to encounter.

They robbed a Burger King? How pathetic...sure did get him one WHOPPER of a consequence: his life. People, being tired of crime, are starting to protect themselves since the government can't. Kudos to the trigger-happy customer. One less scumbag to put up room and board in the all expenses paid concentration camps we call jails. I do agree, though, that people with CCPs need to carefully evaluate the situation before playing hero or unintended consequences could result. Thankfully, no by-standers were injured in this case.