Jack Holtzen graduated high school at the top of his class, he was a valedictorian and was selected to give a speech at gradutaion. Jack was active in school and was a member of the drum line as well as the cross country and golf teams. Jack is a Kansas State graduate, he has a master’e degree. Jack went to Bostwana, Africa and volunteered his time to educate the children there. He learned the language and worked as a translator while there. Jack is in a band with a very talented singer/songwriter. He is an amazing drummer and an even better friend. Jack has a job and contributes to society.

you forgot he fucks blow up dolls and is crazy as hell.

I cannot blame his Friends for wanting to defend him, but Jack crossed a line that can never be re-crossed. No one can ever take these horrors away from the victims who may easily spend the rest of their lives reliving that night and the terrors that go with it.

DEFEND HIM IF YOU WISH, BUT DON'T EXPECT US TO CHANGE OUR FEELINGS TOWARDS HIM. He is a criminal in the very essence of the word. Criminally insane or hopped up on drugs...DOESN'T MATTER. If he needs therapy, fine, give it to him BEHIND BARS where he belongs. He should not be allowed to freely walk the streets while others have to live with the horrors he left behind!

Damn, Al!
(Insert Partridge Family song here...) I think I love you!

Jack Holtzen graduated high school at the top of his class, [snip]

Alyssaj, you do know that English is one of the two official languages of Botswana, don't you?

--Al

Jack Holtzen graduated high school at the top of his class, he was a valedictorian and was selected to give a speech at gradutaion. Jack was active in school and was a member of the drum line as well as the cross country and golf teams. Jack is a Kansas State graduate, he has a master’e degree. Jack went to Bostwana, Africa and volunteered his time to educate the children there. He learned the language and worked as a translator while there. Jack is in a band with a very talented singer/songwriter. He is an amazing drummer and an even better friend. Jack has a job and contributes to society.

Hey Alyssaj: Apparently you haven't read through all the posts, nobody really cares what he did before he committed these crimes, if you (&Melodicdrama,smack and smiley08) are trying to help Jack establish an insanity defense, then go to court, don't do it here... If you read the "about us, why we do what we do" section, before posting, then you didn't get it! This is a public shaming site, which is just what Jack deserves. He wiped out all the so-called good that he did beforehand.... Do you people even consider the victims? The poor toddler that witnessed Jacked -Up come through his apartment window and proceed to attack the caregiver of said toddler? God bless Mr. Williams for being there and tackling him, else Jacked-Up would've committed murder!
I've asked it once and I suppose I have to repeat it...... If you people (that say you are close to him) knew he was having mental issues, why, for the love of God, didn't you intervene? Go to his parents? He does have living parents, right? The college dean? Someone who could help him before it got to this point? Are you willing to answer my questions?

Jack Holtzen graduated high school at the top of his class, he was a valedictorian and was selected to give a speech at gradutaion. Jack was active in school and was a member of the drum line as well as the cross country and golf teams. Jack is a Kansas State graduate, he has a master'e degree. Jack went to Bostwana, Africa and volunteered his time to educate the children there. He learned the language and worked as a translator while there. Jack is in a band with a very talented singer/songwriter. He is an amazing drummer and an even better friend. Jack has a job and contributes to society.

How come he isn't being charged with attempted murder? He was STRANGLING those women!

aw, Smack, I hope your friend gets the help he needs. I feel for him (and of COURSE, I feel awful for the women that were attacked). I appreciate the fact that you are trying to stand up for your friend. I understand that you were getting defensive because it is ACTUALLY personal for you.

Sorry, I just feel like we are all so quick to fight with one another at times that it gets easy to forget that some people's ACTUAL lives are involved in this.

I think everyone should be thankful that the women were hurt too badly (thank god for that), but I am also really hoping that Jack gets good treatment.

Personally, I actually believe in Demon Possession; especially in individuals who have a devious nature to begin with... just saying. Apparently, the doctors can't seem to diagnose his ailment; he looks pretty crazy in that picture... that isn't just being "bold" , that behaviour makes him look like a total asswipe.

Hey Melodicdrama,smack and smiley08: Here’s Jack’s blog http://jacksafricaadventure.blogspot.com/ Why don’t you all go there and leave him some supportive comments, leave your addresses too. That way if he gets out on bond Ol’ Jack can come stay at you all’s places and then if he goes WTF CRAZY on you, you can come back here and tell us how good of a person he is and how much you respect and LOVE him…Everybody else go here http://treehousproductions.blogspot.com/2007/10... Read Jack’s posts…… This should’ve opened a few friends eyes, or is this a feeble attempt to write a Horror movie? Methinks, Jack just wanted to write and STAR in his own “snuff’ film……

MadeaBecBec good post
thanks

No worries there, I promise you.

Thanks, Morbid. I knew I could count on you.

But then again, all the writers here at D’D secretly relish the thought of one of the other fucking up like this, just so we could write the story.

Makes sense.

--Al

If it’s true that the toxicology came back clean as one of his defenders asserts, perhaps they can provide some proof of that?

I think you spend less time waiting on the results of who shot Kennedy or the location of Hoffa.

You know, as much as I'd like to believe the "he has episodes - we tried to get him help, but they were unable to figure it out," story, it just isn't all that plausible. Here, his defenders suggest that, essentially, he has psychotic breaks characterized by amnesia, among other things. That's very serious, and I find it awfully hard to believe that, when the first attempt to seek treatment failed, everyone just gave up. If that's the case, his family is partly responsible for this episode and should feel pretty terrible about not taking legitimate mental illness more seriously. Now, Jack gets to sit in jail because no one cared enough to see to it he got the treatment he needed.

No, not plausible at all. On the other hand, there are thousands of stories of drug-induced episodes like this. A friend of mine had one such episode while on acid. He didn't attack anyone, really... But he did strip his clothes off and go running through the streets, yelling. When officers arrived to deal with him, he took a cop's gun. Guy was lucky he wasn't shot to death as a result. I'll tell you what, though... He never did acid again.

If it's true that the toxicology came back clean as one of his defenders asserts, perhaps they can provide some proof of that?

As for that other text, I wouldn’t want to read too much into it. I have seen so many people write similar experiments in gore and be perfectly sound of mind all the while.

Granted, and I agree, I wasn't taking it as "BIBLE". I have been known to let my darker side wander through this site time and again regarding suitable punishments for certain perps. I just thought it was interesting considering all that has happened recently. Concrete evidence regarding state of mind...NO. Bizarrely prophetic given the circumstances...MAYBE.

One piddling little blog entry about how he went to Africa? And how he "played with the kids at the Tlamelo project in Old Naledi"?

Sounds to me like it was more holiday than work, - either that or he just does not "do" reality very well. If he really was out there doing good he certainly does not do himself justice in his blog.

As for that other text, I wouldn't want to read too much into it. I have seen so many people write similar experiments in gore and be perfectly sound of mind all the while.

Looking a little deeper into the writing, thanks for the post MadeaBecBec, it shows Jack in a survival situation when all hope, and his touch with reality, is lost and his ONLY answer, or survival tool, is alcohol and getting drunk out of his mind. Upon reflection, it is a sad commentary on his current situation and may very well mirror the conflict in his head. FICTION has become REALITY, REALITY has become an illusion.

Very sad.

Hey Melodicdrama,smack and smiley08: Here's Jack's blog http://jacksafricaadventure.blogspot.com/ Why don't you all go there and leave him some supportive comments, leave your addresses too. That way if he gets out on bond Ol' Jack can come stay at you all's places and then if he goes WTF CRAZY on you, you can come back here and tell us how good of a person he is and how much you respect and LOVE him...
Everybody else go here http://treehousproductions.blogspot.com/2007/10... Read Jack's posts...... This should've opened a few friends eyes, or is this a feeble attempt to write a Horror movie? Methinks, Jack just wanted to write and STAR in his own "snuff' film......

My concern is not with Jack, his friends or family, My concerns and prayers are for these people that Jack inflicted his INSANITY on, which would be a wonderful thing for you to consider too, and STOP trying to minimize what Jack did to them….

Well said, because, in the end, it is the victims we have and must always give first priority.

A) They were going about their lives, happy or not doesn't matter, when this person inserted himself violently into their existence.
B) They had to deal with the immediate emotional trama of said insertion, and then had to deal with the insertion of law enforcement and, I am sure, the press.
C) Now that the immediate is over, they are going to have to find a way get back the feeling of contentment, security, and normality that has been taken from them.

Wow, MadeaBecBec:) Ass, meet platter.

I only feel sorry for the women that this guy terrorized that night. Can you imagine how frightening it would be to be sitting at home, and have a deranged lunatic come crashing through the window? And then having him tell you he was going to kill you and attack you? Obviously you would believe a guy crazy enough to jump through a stranger's window. And how scary for that poor toddler child who witnessed that.

Smack: Your friend is lucky he didn't get shot and killed. I don't understand why you are lashing out to people on here who have nothing to do with this situation. Either be angry at Jack, or angry at his loved ones and friends who must have missed some definite warning signs that he was on a trip to crazytown. Al has been honest and even somewhat concerned for Jack's medical needs and you just keep trying to rip him a new ass. The things written about in these articles are based on factual police reports. Police reports are good enough for a court of law, and the news widely reports information from these documents.You can't say that the things written in the article are lies.

Your friend may be seriously ill, but after he receives appropriate treatment he still should be made accountable for his actions and will be punished by the appropriate court. Your coddling him and completely excusing his behavior sends a message to him that you may regret later if he escalates and decides to cut someone's head off on a bus and start eating them, or he shoots eight people. Hopefully he gets the help he needs so this doesn't happen ever again. Even mentally ill people have a duty to society to seek and continue treatment as to not be a threat to innocent citizens.

Morbid, if you ever see my RL name in the news for having done anything similar please strip me of my quasi-anonymity. Link my Real Name to my nom du’ net. Hold a lottery between you, Impqueen, Flaming Fox, Kim, Ladonna, and Kdogg to see who gets to throw the first stone.

No worries there, I promise you. But then again, all the writers here at D'D secretly relish the thought of one of the other fucking up like this, just so we could write the story. Believe me, if ever end up on the front page of my own site, I will make it one for the record books. And there will be blood. Buckets of it.

the point is that none of you guys know Jack.So shut your mouths. You are speculating and spreading lies when in all fairness you need to wait for the details to come out and then talk.Jack is a very good guy and he would never purposefully inflict harm on anyone.Nor does he do drugs.It is a really sad, unfortunate situation for the women who were injured especially and for Jack as well. Let them be, please!! Have some maturity about the situation.

Well, let's see, we do have "details" and those details are in a police report, otherwise those "details" wouldn't have been put in this article and Jack Holtzen's name would not have shown up here. Do you actually consider what you write or just spout out whatever comes to mind? And this is not just some "sad,unfortunate situation" THIS WAS CRIMINAL AND POTENTIALLY DEADLY, not just to the women involved, but to Jack, himself.......

ANYONE WHO DOESN’T KNOW THE HARD COLD FACTS ABOUT HIM OR THE SITUATION AT HAND…PLEASE KNOW ALL OF THE FACTS BEFORE YOU CONDEMN A PERSON AS WONDERFUL AS HE IS. HE NEEDS HELP. BOTTOM LINE. BUT AS WE’VE ALL HEARD “LET HE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE”

Here's just part of the COLD HARD FACTS for you (You have such a simple mind, that you just can't get it?)

When the woman started screaming bloody murder, Jack ran off and dove through the window of a ground floor apartment. Inside the apartment, another woman in her 40’s. He started choking victim number two, screaming, ‘I’m going to kill you.’ He stopped choking her and ran into another room in the apartment where the woman’s mother was caring for a 2-year-old child. He screamed profanities at her and started choking her, victim number three. Damn…crazy much?

The second woman, was caring for a toddler, when Jack went ape-shit, so I'm also hoping they will also charge him with CHILD ENDANGERMENT or something equivalent.....

I just love it when a defender of a criminal comes here and quotes the Bible! Do you even know the scripture where Jesus said this? (Oh yeah, go ahead Google it) By the way this is not the court system, we are however, a jury of Jack's peers, so if we desire to cast a stone at him, to keep him from hurting someone else, that's our right to do just that, it's called FREE SPEECH (Yeah, Google that too) and if they were Actual Stones we were throwing it would be called Self-defense or Heroism (by some) especially if one of us were at the scene of THIS CRIME.....

My concern is not with Jack, his friends or family, My concerns and prayers are for these people that Jack inflicted his INSANITY on, which would be a wonderful thing for you to consider too, and STOP trying to minimize what Jack did to them....

I also enjoy Al's comments, wise adivice (with a great sense of humor) is what he has posted, unlike yours... If you do not like or enjoy what is being said, then go somewhere else, or start your own website for support of Jack, I imagine that you won't have many members.....

I’m out to prove a point. Apparently a point no one in this comment space is willing to even bring into mind what’s being said here…

I don't see you ever getting to the point.

And by the way…debaters without all the facts are nothing….

I make my living solving problems. For real, not out of a schoolbook. Through hard experience I have learned that devising and implementing a solution with the relevant facts in hand is much the better course to take rather than gathering all of the facts. For instance, one of the facts is what color socks Mr. Holtzen was wearing that night. But it is not relevant. Another is whether he has a power tie in his wardrobe -- but again that is not relevant. What is relevant is he is suffering episodes where he loses contact with reality, they are becoming worse, after dozens of medical tests the doctors cannot find a reason for these episodes, his activities during this last one brought him within the ken of the legal system, and he has been to Africa.

From the overwrought reaction I got when I asked if he had seen a tropical medicine specialist I am assuming he has, and the tropical medicine specialist was as baffled as the other doctors he has seen were. I won't bother asking about a neurologist or an infectious disease specialist; I am assuming they are also well represented within Mr. Holtzen's medical records. The Mayo Clinic is where specialists refer their patients when they cannot find a cause for a patient's maladies.

PLEASE DON’T COME BACK WITH “I’VE NEVER STRANGLED OR HURT SOMEONE” TO MAKE YOURSELF SUPERIOR…HE WOULD NEVER DO THIS KNOWINGLY. WE’LL GET HIM HELP. PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL. HE FEELS HORRIBLE AND I’M SURE HE WILL MAKE THE PROPER AMENDS.

But I can't do that. Remember, I'm ex-military.

Diagnosis first. Amends later.

And really? You didn’t drink in college? There just wasn’t an open forum for posting these pictures back then.

I drank like a fish in the service until I realized I was putting my troop's lives in danger, then I stopped. I still haven't figured out if the depression I felt afterwards was a cause or a result of my drinking problem. It eased after six months then disappeared about three months after that.

And by the way…no matter how much you like reading his comments and getting into his “intellect”….Al is still a jerk…do you know him, either? Personally?…

I have already conceded I am an asshole and a sonofabitch. What more do you want?

The internet is not what you think it is…it’s full of knowledge that someone wouldn’t necessarily otherwise have

Knowledge and people with the ability to add 1 and 2 and 3 and get 6 then see how that can come out to 5, 1, and 2.

…while you think he’s witty and entertaining…he’s doing the devil’s work and you don’t even know it…

Point to one sentence where I tried to turn the commenters here away from God. You won't find it.

Go through the site. You won't find me hiding my light under a bushel basket when it is relevant to the matter at hand. Neither will you find me trying to turn people away from God. What you will find is me staunchly in the corner of the underdog.

Like Mr. Holtzen.

In my first comment, I said:
Then he needs to be hospitalized now before he kills somebody or attacks the wrong person who kills him in self defense.
The state or his family need to get him off the street because if they don’t somebody is going to die. If they are unable or unwilling to involuntarily commit him to a mental hospital then prison is the only choice. And if he goes after Bubba in prison then Bubba will break his neck in self defense.

I urged his friends and family to get him into a hospital where he could be controlled, acting on the assumption that he was suffering from some form of psychosis. Where is the devil's work in that?

You can continue on with your preconceived notion of who -- and what -- I am, and continue trying to make me crawl (which will never happen) or you can call the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minnesota and make Mr. Holtzen an appointment for evaluation by the preeminent medical institution in the US, possibly the world.

Think about that for a little while…

Think about this, smack:

Morbid, if you ever see my RL name in the news for having done anything similar please strip me of my quasi-anonymity. Link my Real Name to my nom du' net. Hold a lottery between you, Impqueen, Flaming Fox, Kim, Ladonna, and Kdogg to see who gets to throw the first stone.

Then let me have it.

--Al

The Mayo Clinic's appointment information desk telephone number is 507-538-3270

…he is one of the kindest, most thoughtful, amazing people I have ever known, and what was said by someone earlier is the complete truth

Somebody once said that about Ted Bundy...

Think about that for a little while…

*fart*

Added KCTV video report to story.

I'm not in the least worried about my debating skills, and I'm not out to defend myself in this situation whatsoever...say what you want about me and what I say to defend a great friend...

I'm out to prove a point. Apparently a point no one in this comment space is willing to even bring into mind what's being said here...

And by the way...debaters without all the facts are nothing....

ANYONE WHO LOVES JACK LIKE I DO, I COMMEND YOU FOR DEFENDING HIM. ANYONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HIM, ALL I ASK IS THAT YOU BACK OFF FOR A LITTLE BIT. COME ON...REALLY...ALL I WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND IS THAT THIS IS AMAZINGLY HURTFUL...PLEASE CONSIDER FEELINGS IF YOU CAN...I JUST WANT TO PROTECT MY FRIEND AND EVERYONE WHO CARES ABOUT HIM...IS THAT NOT WHAT GOD PUT US ON THIS EARTH FOR? TO CARE FOR OTHER MANKIND?

ANYONE WHO DOESN'T KNOW THE HARD COLD FACTS ABOUT HIM OR THE SITUATION AT HAND...PLEASE KNOW ALL OF THE FACTS BEFORE YOU CONDEMN A PERSON AS WONDERFUL AS HE IS. HE NEEDS HELP. BOTTOM LINE. BUT AS WE'VE ALL HEARD "LET HE WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE"

PLEASE DON'T COME BACK WITH "I'VE NEVER STRANGLED OR HURT SOMEONE" TO MAKE YOURSELF SUPERIOR...HE WOULD NEVER DO THIS KNOWINGLY. WE'LL GET HIM HELP. PLEASE BE RESPECTFUL. HE FEELS HORRIBLE AND I'M SURE HE WILL MAKE THE PROPER AMENDS.

Of course a 24 year old college kid has partying pics up on his myspace...if you looked at mine, you'd see the same...doesn't mean he's out to hurt or to get smashed and do what he did. This is serious.

And really? You didn't drink in college? There just wasn't an open forum for posting these pictures back then.

Please go back and look at all of his achievements and talk to people who know the kid before putting this stuff up.

And by the way...no matter how much you like reading his comments and getting into his "intellect"....Al is still a jerk...do you know him, either? Personally?...

The internet is not what you think it is...it's full of knowledge that someone wouldn't necessarily otherwise have...while you think he's witty and entertaining...he's doing the devil's work and you don't even know it...

Think about that for a little while...

Al is a good debater and his remarks are usually right on. If nothing else, calling someone a dick shows poor skills in debating.
As for your friend, it's obvious he needs help. And if this isn't his first time having a break, then it's obvious whatever help he got before wasn't enough

And since you seem to know so much about what we’re doing wrong in trying to help him, why don’t you drag your happy omnipotent ass down to Kansas and fix him…you obviously have all the answers!!!

Maybe, instead of breaking out the judgementalism on me without cause, you should drag Jack's happy ass to the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota. It is bluntly obvious, given what smiley08 and melodicdrama are saying, that the Kansas doctors are not helping and he is getting worse.

All you’re out to do is hurt his family and friends and do all you can to make things worse for us.

Uh huh. In this comment I am suggesting you take him to the Mayo Clinic. They deal with all the tough cases -- but somehow or other they manage to solve a huge number of them.

In the last comment I made I asked if he was seeing a tropical medicine specialist. The reason I asked that is I doubt the typical family practice or general practice doctor is well versed in African diseases and parasites.

And I'm just out to hurt Jack and his friends and family.

Get him to Mayo.

Karma’s a bitch, dude…hope it doesn’t come back to you…

It probably will. I am at risk of developing nvCJD because of my military service. If I do then you can chortle in your beer that your veiled curse was effective. "Yeah, I put the evil eye on that sonofabitch Al and now he's suffering exactly like Jack did".

I am going to suggest now that, instead of telling me to shut up because I don't have all the facts, instead of calling me a liar, instead of calling me a dick, instead of calling me an asshole, instead of waxing passive-aggressive on me, instead of implying I need Google to know enough emergency medicine to keep my troops breathing, instead of making unfounded claims about my person and my motivation, and instead of calling through the veils upon Karma to destroy me, that you get him an appointment at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester Minnesota for the earliest possible date then get him there on that date.

Get. Him. To. Mayo.

--Al

Al…you’re a dick. Pretty much all there is to it.

No. I think you are. What's with the name-calling? Al has and always will be one of my favorite posters and his comments are always informing as well as entertaining. I always enjoy reading them, especially when he is educating the uneducated. *hint*

Normally I wouldn’t come on here and retaliate to anything I saw, but it’s insane the way you consistently have something to say…even when it’s irrelevant to the story as a whole (who freaking cares that you know the word for dying from water…we all have google, too, brainiac).

I think his views are always consistent with every story. He gives a lot of insight to the subject at hand, and I appreciate that. I care what he has to say and he has a right to his opinions, as you do, but I don't think you should subject yourself to name-calling because you can no longer step up to the plate and debate logically without resorting to such. Al is a very good debater! I might be wrong, but I have never witnessed him resorting to such tactics.
Keep posting, Al. I always look forward to your comments! :)

I like reading what he has to say, I find that he is not only funny he is very smart so it wouldn’t surprise me if he was a rocket scientist who could shit sunshine and more than likely moonshine

I could USE some sunshine! :)

I actually enjoyed reading what Al wrote as well.

Smack- I am sure it must be hard. I do feel sorry for his family and friends. I can not imagine what they are going through right now having to deal with this.
We only see Jack as in the article and what he did. It is hard for one to see the "good side" of him after reading something like this.
All I can say is I HOPE Jack gets the help he desperately needs.

Al…you’re a dick. Pretty much all there is to it.

Why the name calling? He speak the truth and you are pissed?

Do you have nothing better to do all day than sit on this particular site slamming people in the news? I know you’ll come back with some awesome response like you’re a rocket scientist who shits sunshine blah blah blah…dissecting every defense for Jack like you have to decide his fate and you want us all to see your side makes you look like a judgemental ass, and it’s the people like you that will end up in hell…not people who are as good hearted as Jack.

I like reading what he has to say, I find that he is not only funny he is very smart so it wouldn't surprise me if he was a rocket scientist who could shit sunshine and more than likely moonshine :-D

I didn't know that one could die from having our vagal nerve stimulated while being strangled but now thanks to AL I know that and I will never let my husband strangle me while we are bumping uglies :-)

Thank you Al for sharing your wisdom with us.

And since you seem to know so much about what we're doing wrong in trying to help him, why don't you drag your happy omnipotent ass down to Kansas and fix him...you obviously have all the answers!!!

Al...you're a dick. Pretty much all there is to it.

Do you have nothing better to do all day than sit on this particular site slamming people in the news? I know you'll come back with some awesome response like you're a rocket scientist who shits sunshine blah blah blah...dissecting every defense for Jack like you have to decide his fate and you want us all to see your side makes you look like a judgemental ass, and it's the people like you that will end up in hell...not people who are as good hearted as Jack.

Normally I wouldn't come on here and retaliate to anything I saw, but it's insane the way you consistently have something to say...even when it's irrelevant to the story as a whole (who freaking cares that you know the word for dying from water...we all have google, too, brainiac).

The point is that you know nothing about Jack except for this one thing. And it's the most heartbreaking thing that his family and friends are dealing with. Trust me, I haven't slept in days because I have nightmares about it...he is one of the kindest, most thoughtful, amazing people I have ever known, and what was said by someone earlier is the complete truth: if it were someone else in this situation, he would never judge them without knowing the facts.

You don't know the facts. You don't know what happened before in his episodes...you don't know that there were NO traces of PCP or any such drug found in his system...I know these things. His friends and family know these things. All you're out to do is hurt his family and friends and do all you can to make things worse for us. You are no better than people who purposefully go out with the intention to inflict pain. I can't imagine how he feels right now. I can't imagine that when this is over, he'll have to read this shit online about himself...none of these actions are any reflection of the person I've known for years, and we're all doing what we can to support each other, and we all want him to get better and back to normal.

Karma's a bitch, dude...hope it doesn't come back to you...

well, let’s clear up all this bullshit, shall we?

Yes. Let's.

the last episodes he had were nowhere near this serious.

So you're telling me he is getting worse?

That's not good.

he has seeked extensive help on several occasions, from different professionals and they were unable to figure out what was causing this, even after dozens of tests were run.

MRI? Blood work? Continuous EEG monitoring and recording? Urinalysis following an episode? Radioencephelogram? All were normal?

If I were Jack I think I'd start over with a different primary care physician coordinating all my care. But that's just me.

we all know that journalist’s love to sensationalize stories. yeah, you can die from strangulation. but you can also die from drinking too much water. none of these women required hospitalization.

Well, I'm not a journalist. I am a former NCO. That means I was in the military for some time in order to get promoted to NCO status. I do know something about the use of force. And it wasn't all booklearning either.

Yes, you can die from drinking too much water. It's called "hyponatremia" -- literally, too little salt. The brain swells and destroys the brain stem. And your heart stops. The average person will never suffer hyponatremia.

You can also die from getting your vagal nerve stimulated during a strangulation. Tickle it and pop -- your heart stops. Or maybe it doesn't this time. But one doesn't know about the next time until it happens.

no one here is saying that what he did was right, but is there not a difference between a person who voluntarily commits crimes like this, and someone who has no control over their doing?

Would his future victims be any less dead if he killed them during an episode instead of them being murdered?

it seems unfair to compare him to the stereotypical felon who has no regard for other people. if this had been the case, then, yes, who he was up to this point would have no relevance. but no person in their right mind would self inflict the wounds that he suffered. what happened was extremely unfortunate and i sympathize with these women. but the point is that, his actions were not intentional, and maybe this should be considered when passing judgment on his character.

I am assuming the differential diagnoses he has undergone so far have positively ruled out epilepsy and a brain tumor. Have they ruled out parasites he may have been infected by while he was in Africa? Have they ruled out any of the relapsing fevers, malaria, dengue, or any of the others? Is he seeing a tropical medicine specialist? Yeah yeah I know -- hoofbeats, horses, and zebras. Still, I bear scars because a physician didn't think somebody as young as I was at the time could suffer from that particular malady.

--Al

well, let's clear up all this bullshit, shall we?

the last episodes he had were nowhere near this serious.

he has seeked extensive help on several occasions, from different professionals and they were unable to figure out what was causing this, even after dozens of tests were run.

we all know that journalist's love to sensationalize stories. yeah, you can die from strangulation. but you can also die from drinking too much water. none of these women required hospitalization.

no one here is saying that what he did was right, but is there not a difference between a person who voluntarily commits crimes like this, and someone who has no control over their doing? it seems unfair to compare him to the stereotypical felon who has no regard for other people. if this had been the case, then, yes, who he was up to this point would have no relevance. but no person in their right mind would self inflict the wounds that he suffered. what happened was extremely unfortunate and i sympathize with these women. but the point is that, his actions were not intentional, and maybe this should be considered when passing judgment on his character.

laced with PCP maybe?

I am putting my money on PCP with RunecirE.

the point is that none of you guys know Jack.

Is the double entendre deliberate?

So shut your mouths.

No.

You are speculating and spreading lies when in all fairness you need to wait for the details to come out and then talk.

Detail: he tried to strangle three women.
Detail: he has had these episodes before.
Detail: of the 15 unique photos on his MS, 12 show him partying hard.

Jack is a very good guy and he would never purposefully inflict harm on anyone.

Then he needs to be put somewhere where he cannot inadvertently inflict harm on anybody like he did in this last episode of his.

Nor does he do drugs.

I take it the toxicology screen has come back negative then?

Do you have a link?

It is a really sad, unfortunate situation for the women who were injured especially and for Jack as well. Let them be, please!! Have some maturity about the situation.

What we are engaged in here is the Hegelian dialectic.

And to everyone who is talking about the episodes, how do you know he didn’t try to get help for it. Maybe he did and the doctors couldn’t find anything wrong. So again just shut up.

Did he, or didn't he, try to get help for this?

If he did and the first doctor was unable to identify the cause of these psychotic attacks, did he get a referral to a specialist?

If he did get a referral to a specialist, what was that specialist's specialty?

Are you familiar with the term "passive aggressive"?

And once more, "No". I will not shut up simply because somebody with butthurt is demanding I do so.

Going on a website and talking trash about someone involved in a tragedy like this and you don’t know the situation doesn’t make you the bigger person. Honestly, you’ll look like a big asshole once the truth comes out.

We know these things right now:
1) Three women suffered violence at Holtzen's hands.
2) Two of those women could have very well died at his hands. Strangulation is very dangerous; what a given person survives once can prove deadly the second time. Or the tenth. Or the fiftieth.
3) Holtzen has suffered these episodes before.

And you're right; I am an asshole. And a sonofabitch too, don't forget that. The assholery came when I put on the NCO stripes I wore; thesonofabitchery I was born to.

Maybe you should devote more energy to something positive like wishing the women well instead of the negative by bashing Jack.

Jesus told us to pray in the closet, not on the street corner. Do you know for a fact that the people commenting here are not wishing Holtzen's victims well, using that energy to "bash Jack" instead, or are you simply assuming that we can't walk and chew gum at the same time?

No one is saying his actions were okay all that is being said is that you need to give the man some respect. Something all of us deserve as HUMAN BEINGS!

Seems to me Holtzen didn't afford his victims that level of respect you demand we accord him. For that matter you're not being very respectful in your commentary, calling us liars and ignoranuses.

Hope this sorry effort to make yourselves feel l like less of a social liability to works because one things for sure:
I doubt you will ever reach that moral platform you are trying to put yourself on above Jack.

I got help with my psychological problems before I loaded up my pistol and my shotgun and shot up Flyover Country. The nightmares I was having of death, killing, war, murder, and suicide were keeping me from sleeping and I was rapidly becoming paranoid as a result of sleep deprivation. I now take a SSRI and a benzodiazepine to keep the nightmares at bay and I am sleeping again.

Because of your passive-aggressive bullshit I do not know whether Holtzen sought help but was rebuffed or didn't seek help or sought help then rejected it when it was offered. Based on what I know -- that he is suffering from some untreated psychological condition that caused him to run amok, injuring three women and placing two of them at risk of death at his hands -- I can say that I am already on that higher moral platform.

If you and Jack switched places, and he heard someone running off at the mouth like that, he would tell the person that they should make sure they have all the facts before they went about talking about it-in the most calm, non-aggressive way,
Because he is a good person.

And I'm not, right? I already said I was an asshole and a sonofabitch.

"All the facts"? No such thing. We already have the relevant facts -- Holtzen suffers from some sort of episode where he loses his inhibitions, he put two women in danger of death during the last one, he injured a third innocent woman, and he injured himself badly enough this last time that he needed surgery to repair the damage. Given those facts, he is a danger to the community and to himself and needs involuntary commitment to a psychiatric institution where he can be properly diagnosed and treated.

--Al

Because he is a good person.

Good people always get drunk and attack blowup dolls and post it in their "brag book" on MySpace. His whole photo album is devoted to the party scene. That tells me where his priorities lie.

If he wants to be remembered for all his good works, perhaps he should focus his public image on that and ignore the party pics.

But with all he's been up to, I think his brain is pickled.

Sounds like he was on an LSD trip… with round trip…no stoppin’.

That's the first thing I thought

That’s what I thought too. Cops are saying it’s marijuana.

Maybe it was weed laced with LSD?


looking at his MySpace he looks like hes a big partier and some of the comments people have left on there.

My sympathy are with the victims and with Jack. I truly believe he has a form of mental illiness. I will freely say though while he may have gone for help in the begining, by the time it manifested to this, I doubt he knew he was sick. I also have a hard time seeing how other people didn't notice this and that to me is inexcusable that they didn't get him help, especially since one of his other friends mentioned this wasn't the first time he had acted like this.

the point is that none of you guys know Jack.
So shut your mouths. You are speculating and spreading lies when in all fairness you need to wait for the details to come out and then talk.
Jack is a very good guy and he would never purposefully inflict harm on anyone.
Nor does he do drugs.
It is a really sad, unfortunate situation for the women who were injured especially and for Jack as well. Let them be, please!! Have some maturity about the situation.

And to everyone who is talking about the episodes, how do you know he didn't try to get help for it. Maybe he did and the doctors couldn't find anything wrong. So again just shut up.
Going on a website and talking trash about someone involved in a tragedy like this and you don't know the situation doesn't make you the bigger person. Honestly, you'll look like a big asshole once the truth comes out.

Maybe you should devote more energy to something positive like wishing the women well instead of the negative by bashing Jack.
No one is saying his actions were okay all that is being said is that you need to give the man some respect. Something all of us deserve as HUMAN BEINGS!
Hope this sorry effort to make yourselves feel l like less of a social liability to works because one things for sure:
I doubt you will ever reach that moral platform you are trying to put yourself on above Jack.
If you and Jack switched places, and he heard someone running off at the mouth like that, he would tell the person that they should make sure they have all the facts before they went about talking about it-in the most calm, non-aggressive way,
Because he is a good person.