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Jordan Brown, 11, Shot And Killed Kenzie

February 25, 2009 at 12:51 pm by  

….and her unborn son.

Jordan Brown and Kenzie Houk

Jordan Brown and Kenzie Houk

New Castle, PAKenzie Houk, 26, a mother of two beautiful daughters, was excited about the impending arrival of a son. He was due in just two weeks…she was going to name him Christopher. She never got to meet little Christopher. The lives of both Kenzie and Christopher were cut short the morning of February 20. Their killer? 11-year-old Jordan Brown.

Jordan Brown is the son of Kenzie’s boyfriend, Chris Brown. The couple, Jordan, and Kenzie’s two small daughters lived in a farmhouse in the rural western Pennsylvania town of Wampum. Chris was the unborn child’s father.

At around 8:00 a.m. the morning of the 20th, Jordan wrapped his .20-gauge shotgun in a blanket, walked into the room where Kenzie lay sleeping, pointed the gun at the back of her head and fired…execution style. He then returned the gun to it’s rack on his bedroom wall and headed out of the house to catch the bus to school with Kenzie’s oldest daughter.

Kenzie’s death was discovered around 9:30 a.m. after her youngest daughter alerted workers clearing firewood at the property. After the older children had left for school, the 4-year-old woke up and headed downstairs for breakfast. Shortly after 9:00 she entered her mother’s room and found her dead.

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At autopsy, wadding (the tubing used to contain pellets in a shotgun shell) was removed from Kenzie’s body, and it matched the shotgun taken from the boy’s bedroom. The fetus died from lack of oxygen.

Jordan was picked up at school by state troopers shortly after the discovery of the body. When questioned about the events of the morning, Jordan first told investigators that a black truck had been parked at the back of the property, and he assumed it was someone there to feed the cattle on the 55-acre farm. He raised a few eyebrows when he later gave a totally different description of the vehicle.

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Authorities believe the killing was premeditated. They say Jordan came down the stairs with two guns, but returned upstairs after Kenzie’s 7-year-old daughter saw him. He then hid the gun in a blanket, came back downstairs, and shot Kenzie. In addition to finding the boy’s .20-gauge shotgun, police found a blue blanket with a hole in it, and burn marks around the hole’s edges.

Kenzie’s oldest daughter later told investigators she saw Jordan drop something on the ground from his pocket before they got on the bus. Police said they found a spent shotgun shell in the same spot.

Nobody really knows why Jordan shot Kenzie and he hasn’t confessed. Her family believes it’s because Jordan was jealous of the attention his father paid to Kenzie and her daughters. There was going to be a new baby in the house too. Kenzie’s family told police the child threatened her in the weeks leading up to her death.

Because Pennsylvania law allows prosecutors to charge children as young as 10 with criminal homicide, Jordan Brown is being charged as an adult in the murders. Today, Jordan left the county jail and is on his way to a juvenile facility.  Chris Brown believes his son is innocent.

Kenzie Houk was buried on Tuesday, with little Christopher in a casket at her feet.

Raven Blackehart has this one posted in our forums.

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Comments


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  • Special2bme

    I believe that this boy understands that death is permanent therefore I feel he should be tried as an adult to get the proper prison time. However, I also feel he could serve his time at a juvenile facility until he reaches the age of 18 and then transferred over to prison at that age. Looking at this mug shot he has the darkest black blank looking eyes that I have actually seeing before in a neighbor child that use to live next door to me. That neighbor child actually threaten to kill my son. We even called the police and talked to them about him and his parents were aware of it. But there was nothing anyone could do until he actually went through with his threat, WTF then it’s too late. But I feel this child needs to serve time as an adult would.

  • I know there was some conversation in the forums about where he should spend his time…he is going to be transferred to a juvenile facility today. I think he should be held there until he is of age, then transferred to an adult facility.

    The manner in which he killed Kenzie was cruel, callous, and yes, I believe it was premeditated.

    I would hate to be in his father’s shoes right now.

  • sarabei

    I agree with you both, put him in Juvie then put him in a adult prison when he is of age. The heinousness of this leaves me….well ALMOST…speechless!!

  • peachpye

    This is horrific. How horrible that must have been for Kenzi’s youngest to wake her mother and find her head blown off? My praryers are with this family…and Jordan. He needs help.

  • He believes his son is innocent. Wow.

    I can’t imagine the pain the father is facing right now, but he still needs to face the truth too. No one else took the boy’s gun off the wall, shot the woman and put it back. No one else dropped the spent shell by the bus stop.

    Man. Are my thoughts ever with this guy.

  • sarabei

    My prayers won’t be with Jordan, he cold bloodedly murdered not one but two people…not only KILLED them but premeditated it. It can’t be undone, I feel no sorrow nor sympathy for the little murderer.

  • Chris Brown believes his son is innocent.

    I feel for the guy. Loses his girlfriend, newborn and his 11-year-old. If he is anything like me, he’ll blame himself for this every day of his life, warranted or not.

    BTW, spawn, if you are reading this…do not get any funny ideas. I am a light sleeper.

  • Athena

    It’s highly unlikely that he’s going to be serving anywhere close to a life term for this crime. Believe it or not, there are several examples of youngsters committing crimes this heinous or worse, and none of them have been sentenced to life, or anywhere near it.

    In fact, the most lengthy sentence I can recall from memory was in the case of Christopher Pittman who, when he was 12, killed both his grandparents because his grandfather had punished him for something that happened at school that day. He lied awake waiting for his grandparents to fall asleep, then he went into their room and shot them dead with a shotgun. If I recall correctly, he then took off with their money, their guns, and the family dog in their SUV after setting fire to the home.

    Since being incarcerated, Christopher has been a model inmate, and has the support of family. In 2005 at the age of 15, he was sentenced to 30 years, a sentence considered exceptional, given his age. It was the mandatory minimum for the crime. I’m not sure if he will be eligible for parole, but either way, he’s going to get out with plenty of his life to live.

    That why I think it’s important to concentrate on rehabilitation for these young criminals. It’s proven effective and is in the public’s best interest. To just toss him in with the general adult population at the age of 18 without giving him a second thought would be reckless. Juvie should hang onto him for as long as they can, 21 or 25, depending on the law there, and then transfer him to a prison with a solid educational program, so that he can get a college education and maybe some vocational training, so he can transition into society as smoothly as possible when he gets released… because it IS a matter of “[i]when[/i]”, rather than “if”.

  • shayshaymomma85

    Kids like this scare me. He looks mean and souless. And I’m sure in his head this was the logical thing to do. I’m torn about crazy children. I’m sure part of his insanity is just going through adolesence but damn I wouldn’t wanna see him hit puberty!

    It must be a country thing and I must be a city girl but when did buying guns for your kids become ok? I won’t let children hold knives around me. Call me paranoid.

    I might be showing a little ignorance here because I thought that was illegal.

  • Not So Speechless

    This poor woman and her daughters- not to mention Christopher who never even go to breathe or see his sweet mother’s face.
    This kid needs to go away forever.

  • mjmsepm

    It must be a country thing and I must be a city girl but when did buying guns for your kids become ok? I won’t let children hold knives around me. Call me paranoid.

    Kids can legally hunt at the age of 10!

  • dammitall

    Jordan was picked up at school by state troopers shortly after the discovery of the body. When questioned about the events of the morning, Jordan first told investigators that a black truck had been parked at the back of the property, and he assumed it was someone there to feed the cattle on the 55-acre farm. He raised a few eyebrows when he later gave a totally different description of the vehicle.

    It’s not that it was premeditated that gets me, it’s the way he went on about his day and coolly lied about it. If he’d been smarter, he’d probably have gotten away with it. Hell, his dad believes him. I’m not looking forward to this one getting out.

  • Coyote

    This kid knew exactly what he was doing, and even though he’s incarcerated, he got what he wanted. Some people, including kids, are just plain evil & no amount of rehabilitation can cure them.

  • SumrLilli

    As much as I do believe that some people are just born evil, this also makes me think of all the stories featured here where the parent chooses the “piece-a-ass” over the children.

    I wonder what the situation was at home?

    Don’t get me wrong, I have seen evil kids in decent families before. But that is much more the exception than the rule.

    Could this have been a lost child so desperate for attention (also a dude in a house mostly filled with chicks) that he would do anything? And maybe hunting is legal, but COME ON to keep the gun in the kids room?????

    I have a cousin whose children have been hunting since they were about 7, but they don’t have free access to the guns.

    It sounds like there was some reckless parenting involved in this formula.

  • RunecirE

    It’s highly unlikely that he’s going to be serving anywhere close to a life term for this crime. Believe it or not, there are several examples of youngsters committing crimes this heinous or worse, and none of them have been sentenced to life, or anywhere near it.

    I (OMG) agree with you Athena. I know, seems sureal, huh? I would hate to see what GP would do to this kid when he is 18. All for Rehabilitation.

    However (ya knew it was coming), my worries keep coming back to the Sociopath line of thinking regarding his actions and what he will be like when he does get out.

    …IDK something in my head is worried there is a wire crossed in his head that rehabilitation won’t fix.

  • Abroad

    Chris Brown believes his son is innocent.

    Probably too painful for the father to admit it to himself right now; but who else could have done it? They did a great job of framing him, whoever they are 😛

    It’s not that it was premeditated that gets me, it’s the way he went on about his day and coolly lied about it. If he’d been smarter, he’d probably have gotten away with it. Hell, his dad believes him. I’m not looking forward to this one getting out.

    Yes, that is what freezes the blood in my veins, too. If he’d kept his story about the truck a bit straighter…… But then the wadding would still have matched the shotgun shells in his room. He was always going to get found out.

    In the forums, I have wondered about the bio-mum: Do we know why she and the father are no longer together? Death? Divorce? Does he/did he see her regularly? If she is still alive, what was her attitude to the father’s new girlfriend? Good? Bad? Indifferent? And how does she feel about what happened, if she is still around to know about it?

    If anybody can throw any light on this, I would be most interested to know.

  • I can’t imagine the pain the father is facing right now, but he still needs to face the truth too. No one else took the boy’s gun off the wall, shot the woman and put it back. No one else dropped the spent shell by the bus stop.

    wow,yeah. who lets their kids have a gun in their room? WTF?

    That why I think it’s important to concentrate on rehabilitation for these young criminals. It’s proven effective and is in the public’s best interest. To just toss him in with the general adult population at the age of 18 without giving him a second thought would be reckless. Juvie should hang onto him for as long as they can, 21 or 25, depending on the law there, and then transfer him to a prison with a solid educational program, so that he can get a college education and maybe some vocational training, so he can transition into society as smoothly as possible when he gets released… because it IS a matter of “[i]when[/i]“, rather than “if”.

    If he was in California He would be in the CYA,they stay their until they are (Correct me if Im wrong) 24?

    It must be a country thing and I must be a city girl but when did buying guns for your kids become ok? I won’t let children hold knives around me. Call me paranoid.

    I agree, It seems to me its the kids in the back country area’s that seem to have free access to that kinda shit. I guess some parents just figure well hell we are a million miles from the nearest neighbor why the heck not let the boy have his fun. give em his gun.

    It’s not that it was premeditated that gets me, it’s the way he went on about his day and coolly lied about it. If he’d been smarter, he’d probably have gotten away with it. Hell, his dad believes him. I’m not looking forward to this one getting out.

    I think its hard for ANY parent to fathom their child committing such a heinous crime.

    This kid knew exactly what he was doing, and even though he’s incarcerated, he got what he wanted. Some people, including kids, are just plain evil & no amount of rehabilitation can cure them.

    By the looks of his pic.He’s defiantly disturbed.It makes me wonder what was going on at home,Inside his head? what at that age? My daughter is going on 11 now and just looking at her then seeing these kids the same age doing crazy stuff like this. It just blows my mind.

    I wonder what the situation was at home?

    yeah exactly

  • RunecirE

    In the forums, I have wondered about the bio-mum:

    Brings up an interesting line of thought. Is there a chance, do you think, that she coerced him, lead him, taught him. So much of what he did seems beyond the scope of an 11yo. He played this whole thing out like he was a professional. His calm, cool, collected demeanour. IDK just a thought.

  • biteme

    Don’t get me wrong, I have seen evil kids in decent families before. But that is much more the exception than the rule.

    disagree
    with that comment, although many would like to believe it.

    Kids can legally hunt at the age of 10!

    agree
    in certain areas of the country guns a left out in the open and available to anyone in the house, Kids learn to shoot quite young, and many seem to get their own by their 12th birthday

    Probably too painful for the father to admit it to himself right now; but who else could have done it? They did a great job of framing him, whoever they are

    agree
    I’m sure it’s a deficult time for the father, has to be hard to admit your child could be that warped

  • KANE

    It’s not that it was premeditated that gets me, it’s the way he went on about his day and coolly lied about it. If he’d been smarter, he’d probably have gotten away with it. Hell, his dad believes him. I’m not looking forward to this one getting out.

    Yea, shoot Dad’s girlfriend execution style and hop on the school bus. That’s scary, especially since he had previously threatened her. I wonder who the second shot gun was for. Should be interesting if he ever talks.

    Yes, that is what freezes the blood in my veins, too. If he’d kept his story about the truck a bit straighter…… But then the wadding would still have matched the shotgun shells in his room. He was always going to get found out.

    If he had been smart enough, he could have lied his way past that one as well. especially if all the residue was on the blanket, not him, but I don’t know the science on that so that’s just a theory I’m throwing out. Not that it matters

    I feel sorry for that family, from the outside it looks like they had a good thing going. Still, who knows what skeletons are in the closets.

  • AZPistonsGrl

    Chris Brown believes his son is innocent.

    Yeah, and OJ belives HE didn’t kill Nicole and Ron either.

  • biteme

    I agree, It seems to me its the kids in the back country area’s that seem to have free access to that kinda shit. I guess some parents just figure well hell we are a million miles from the nearest neighbor why the heck not let the boy have his fun. give em his gun.

    We all have deferent backgrounds and lifestyles, for one thing city folk don’t have to run out and shoot a coyote that’s attacking their sheep or a Mt lion that’s been killing everything on their property. I’m sure people living in rural areas think some of the things city folk do is dam crazy.

  • solange822001

    This pisses me off. It is NOT ok for a child to have a shotgun! If I had my way, his father would be in jail right along with him. Do we really think that an 11 year old has the wits about him to TRULY understand his actions and the consequences? What if this boy hadn’t had a shotgun, loaded and ready at his reach? Just like the 8 year old boy who killed his dad and roommate not too long ago. I truly believe that these kids would not have it in them to violently stab or kill these adults in any other way, yet if you are dumb enough to let them go around playing with guns, all it takes is a moment of anger and the pull of the trigger and it’s all over. If this kid hadn’t had a gun for him to mess around with, maybe he could have gotten help, and his life and the life of this woman and baby wouldn’t be over.

  • solange822001

    We all have deferent backgrounds and lifestyles, for one thing city folk don’t have to run out and shoot a coyote that’s attacking their sheep or a Mt lion that’s been killing everything on their property. I’m sure people living in rural areas think some of the things city folk do is dam crazy.

    An adult who lives in the country can do that, understandable, but LOCK UP HIS GUN when not in use. Screw the sheep, I’d be more worried about my child accidentally shooting themself in the face!

  • Abroad

    Brings up an interesting line of thought. Is there a chance, do you think, that she coerced him, lead him, taught him. So much of what he did seems beyond the scope of an 11yo. He played this whole thing out like he was a professional. His calm, cool, collected demeanour. IDK just a thought.

    I would be lying if I pretended the thought had not crossed my mind that he was (also) looking for her approval; but then for all we know the poor woman may be dead, too, and completely innocent of any undue influence on her son……

  • Abroad

    Screw the sheep

    I am told in some parts they do……..

  • Chris Brown believes his son is innocent.

    I read this on AOL yesterday – I will see if I can find it to post it. That story said that he told his father and grandmother that he wanted to kill the girlfriend. He HATED her and wanted her to die. It also said that he was a hunter – that in the last turkey hunt for Thanksgiving, he proved to be a better hunter than most full grown men. So scary that a child is capable of what most grown men aren’t capable of…

  • We all have deferent backgrounds and lifestyles, for one thing city folk don’t have to run out and shoot a coyote that’s attacking their sheep or a Mt lion that’s been killing everything on their property. I’m sure people living in rural areas think some of the things city folk do is dam crazy.

    I live in a rural area. Our back yard is riddled with coyotes,mountain lions etc..We do not own a gun now. I grew up shooting guns started at the age of 6.We slaughtered cows in our front yard and my step dad slaughtered Rabbit on the telephone poll out on the corner of our house..(FOR FOOD) My intention was not to put down “country folk” hell I AM one. believe it or not though some people DO have that mentality. you know the type,the aw shucks ma he didn’t mean no harm he just was jealous of the baby coming. And that being said they should certainly have had enough sense not to let an 11 year old run around so freely with a gun.

  • RunecirE

    for all we know the poor woman may be dead, too, and completely innocent of any undue influence on her son……

    Agreed…not pointing ANY fingers…I think there is a lot to be discovered yet. I hope Jaded & CO. will keep this updated. The psychology alone is sooooo facinating.

    I am told in some parts they do……..

    You just had to go there… 😉

  • silvahalo

    The mind of a child who can, think, plan then carry out such a heinous crime, is in much need of help. Sad thing, there were signs by the Houk family that Christopher was having a hard time and even spoke of doing harm to Kenzie.

    I believe this child snapped as he realized in his mind that he was being replaced. Father with new wife, and baby boy on the way, plus the other siblings…yeah, I can see the anger he must have been feeling. By no means justifying it, but I can understand. Though, I cannot even begin to imagine what the father is feeling at this time. Shattered family…to bury his love and baby boy on the same day, is just too much for anyone…meanwhile, he is at a loss to cope, as he saying his son is innocent. After all, in every way that matters, he has lost him too. I’m certain he feels he let his son down having not taking his behavior more seriously, maybe the warnings even went ignored….I feel for the father. I do hope his son gets all the needed help and that he justly serves punishment for his actions.
    My sympathies to family and friends on their darkest days, may you someday find happiness again.

    Rest in peace Kenzie and baby Christopher, you both deserved life.

  • Veronica

    I believe that this boy understands that death is permanent therefore I feel he should be tried as an adult to get the proper prison time. However, I also feel he could serve his time at a juvenile facility until he reaches the age of 18 and then transferred over to prison at that age. Looking at this mug shot he has the darkest black blank looking eyes that I have actually seeing before in a neighbor child that use to live next door to me. That neighbor child actually threaten to kill my son. We even called the police and talked to them about him and his parents were aware of it. But there was nothing anyone could do until he actually went through with his threat, WTF then it’s too late. But I feel this child needs to serve time as an adult would.

    I agree, and transferring him to an adult prison after he turns 18 solves the problem of the prison lacking resources to hold a kid that age and segregate him from the adults. To charge him as a juvenile over concerns about only the next seven years (of what is sure to be a very long sentence if he’s convicted) seems ridiculous to me.

  • biteme

    Screw the sheep

    I am told in some parts they do……..

    the way I heard it they can’t use a gun, they need both hands to hold the sheep

  • Veronica

    Also, if this kid really did murder Kenzie, I’d be shocked if he didn’t torture and kill animals in the past.

  • Abroad

    the way I heard it they can’t use a gun, they need both hands to hold the sheep

    What do you think the wellington boots are for? If you stick one sheep hind-leg in each leg of them, you have your hands free for other things……

    (I have Welsh friends.)

  • biteme

    What do you think the wellington boots are for? If you stick one sheep hind-leg in each leg of them, you have your hands free for other things……

    LOL
    What will those city folk come up with next?
    LOL

  • Abroad

    You mean my Welsh friends lied to me? *troubled*

  • What do you think the wellington boots are for? If you stick one sheep hind-leg in each leg of them, you have your hands free for other things……

    I heard the boots were so they couldn’t run away.

    LOLWhat will those city folk come up with next?LOL

    HEY!! I’m a city folk!!!

  • Athena

    However (ya knew it was coming), my worries keep coming back to the Sociopath line of thinking regarding his actions and what he will be like when he does get out.

    Certainly a valid concern, but we just don’t know enough to classify him a sociopath, yet. People are born with the capacity for a conscience (unless their sociopaths). But the degree of conscience is not inherent – it’s something that is developed. Kids don’t naturally know right from wrong and must tune their gauge according to their surroundings. So, just because a kid isn’t too clear on it at 5 or 11 doesn’t mean he won’t be by 18 or 25, you know?

    This could have simply been an err in judgment of unimaginable magnitude, rather than the result of no conscience.

  • Abroad

    I heard the boots were so they couldn’t run away.

    Yes, exactly. A hind leg in each of your wellington boots’ legs while you are wearing them would do that? 😛

  • biteme

    HEY!! I’m a city folk!!!

    just don’t accept a sheep skin coat from anyone wearing wellington boots and everything will be fine or not, but I won’t go there.

  • RunecirE

    So, just because a kid isn’t too clear on it at 5 or 11 doesn’t mean he won’t be by 18 or 25, you know?

    Well spoke, and that’s why I am holding out hope for rehabilitation. Not ready to Throw away the key just yet. I still think there is a lot that will come out in discovery about both him and his surroundings.

  • FlamingFox

    It’s not that it was premeditated that gets me, it’s the way he went on about his day and coolly lied about it.

    Yeah, that really freaked me out, too! I feel bad for the father and her girls. I cannot even begin to imagine what they’re going through. I know I will be definitely be awaiting updates on this one! This is one of the scariest ones I have ever read!

  • ecvmanzo

    Oh Lord, those poor little girls will never have a mom again. I am scared to know what effects this will have on the 4 year old. The sight of her mother shot in bed, must have been frightening for her. To see the photo of the 3 of them hugging, makes me so sad inside.

    I have no words for the 11 year old. This is something I know nothing about (thank you God). I pray that these girls find some type of safe haven and can recover.

  • Also, if this kid really did murder Kenzie, I’d be shocked if he didn’t torture and kill animals in the past.

    now that sounds interesting cause ya know? your right~ It usually starts out that way doesn’t it? torturing animals then moving on to something bigger?

  • I cant imagine why any father would buy a boy a shotgun. I cant understand how/why this kid could have access to a gun and amunition. Its not the 1800’s where you have to go out and kill your food or protect your land or animals. Why was this gun in his room and not locked up? Why was amunition so accessible? Utterly reckless.
    In my house my kids dont even get water guns. Guns are not toys and should not be treated as such. Its serious shit. Someone can be severly hurt or killed by an accident, or by simply not understanding the full concept of death.
    This boy is seriously disturbed and I blame his father and his mother, if he has one. He believes his son is innocent? WTF? First, he buys his son a fucking gun, then he ignores the red flags that could have saved his girlfriend and sons life.
    I have never been so upset by something that doesnt personally affect me. Maybe because I am pregnant (due in 2 months) and a little emotional or maybe because of how I feel about guns. But I just cant believe this little shit could be so callous and cold in the way he just shot his stepmom and then went about his day as if nothing happened…and then to lie about it afterwards?
    My prayers are with Kenzie and her family. Her poor daughters and wow, the one who found her is going to have issues with that for the rest of her life.
    I have no sympathy at all for this little prick or his family. So many people failed to protect Kenzie and get the little cold blooded killer help.

  • Ruby

    I want to know who’s going to get those girls now and take care of them. Kenzie wasn’t married to Jordan’s father, right? So he has no legal claim to them. I hope there’s a bio dad or other relatives who will step up to the plate for them in a big way.

    RIP

  • just don’t accept a sheep skin coat from anyone wearing wellington boots and everything will be fine or not, but I won’t go there.

    Thanks for the advice.

  • Aslan

    At around 8:00 a.m. the morning of the 20th, Jordan wrapped his .20-gauge shotgun in a blanket, walked into the room where Kenzie lay sleeping, pointed the gun at the back of her head and fired…execution style. He then returned the gun to it’s rack on his bedroom wall and headed out of the house to catch the bus to school with Kenzie’s oldest daughter.

    Don’t let this kid out when he’s 18, please.

    RIP Kenzie and little one

  • nadine

    This is not far from where i live a few towns away, how scary huh? my prayers are with Kenzie and her little one, NEVER EVER LET THIS KID OUT OF JUVEE OR JAIL HE IS A TIME BOMB AND HE WILL KILL AGAIN, IT IS IN HIS BLOOD, EVEN THOUGH HE IS A YOUNGSTER AT THE AGE OF 11, SORRY SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT IN HIS HEAD FOR HIM TO HAVE DONE SUCH AN ACT

  • solange822001

    In my little rant against the dad, I completely missed one important detail. The fucking kid had threatened to kill her! So, for all you other geniuses out there, a word of advice:

    When your kid starts threatening the life of another human being, it MAY be time to take the loaded fucking shotgun out of his room, YOU IDIOTIC TWAT!!!!!!!!!

  • Redshoes

    Kenzie’s death was discovered around 9:30 a.m. after her youngest daughter alerted workers clearing firewood at the property. After the older children had left for school, the 4-year-old woke up and headed downstairs for breakfast. Shortly after 9:00 she entered her mother’s room and found her dead.

    can’t believe that little girl had to find her own mother like that…

    At around 8:00 a.m. the morning of the 20th, Jordan wrapped his .20-gauge shotgun in a blanket, walked into the room where Kenzie lay sleeping, pointed the gun at the back of her head and fired…execution style. He then returned the gun to it’s rack on his bedroom wall and headed out of the house to catch the bus to school with Kenzie’s oldest daughter.

    DON’T LET YOUR KIDS HAVE ACCESS TO GUNS. Fine, you want them to hunt, whatever (I think that’s weird too, but understand different places do different things). But they should NOT HAVE ACCESS TO IT AT ALL TIMES. JESUS CHRIST.

  • Redshoes

    When your kid starts threatening the life of another human being, it MAY be time to take the loaded fucking shotgun out of his room, YOU IDIOTIC TWAT!!!!!!!!!

    soooooo agreed

  • Redshoes

    God, not to mention, there is a freaking FOUR YEAR OLD IN THE HOUSE. oh, so eleven is old enough to have access to a gun? well, is FUCKING FOUR?

    honestly, it just sounds like an accident waiting to happen. or, well, MURDER.

  • sarabei

    Alright, I would like to pose a question to my fellow demonites. There has been quite a bit of discussion about the mentality of this boy, his ability to distinguish what he did as right from wrong as well as,due to his age, his ability to properly handle whatever feelings he may be having (anger, jealousy, hate, etc.) My question is this, how many of us honestly at 11 actually contemplated and planned to murder someone? A family member, school mate, teacher, WHATEVER. I don’t mean the angry “I am going to kill you”, I mean actual planning and honestly wanting to snuff the life out of someone? I remember being 11…I can honestly say I never thought about actually killing someone. I thought I was bad for even THINKING about fighting back if my mom started smacking me around again. Which she didn’t and I didn’t actually have to defend myself, but I felt guilty for even THINKING about fighting back. So I KNOW that I never contemplated actual murder. As Athena says, chances are this kid WILL be released someday, hopefully when he is too old to enjoy life outside, but probably not. Is he a sociopath? I think more than likely, yes. I don’t claim to know a lot about or adhere to the psychologist theories regarding children. I mean someone quoted a Dr. I think as saying be glad that isn’t a weapon handy when kids are overwhelmed by their emotions. WHO doesn’t have access to SOME form of weapon when they are mad at ANY age? Knife? Ball bat? ROCK for God’s sake. It just isn’t in the realm of “normality” in my mind for a child to even contemplate murder. I feel they are sick and something is “off” in their minds. Most of us are born with a conscience, we don’t cross that invisible line…..is the ability in all of us? I think so, we have SOMETHING that stops us from acting on it though at any age……something is missing in these kids who kill……and it is something I don’t think can be fixed.

  • RunecirE

    Sarabei, two points, or ponderances, you posed reach out to me more than the others.

    A) The ability to plan and carry out the horrific action has lead me to believe he had help either in the planning or in the carrying out. Help can be as detached as a movie or video or even a book or magazine or blog, OR the help can come from an even closer and more presonal source such as (and its only a theory) the up-to-now unknown mother of the boy. Plenty of cases where children were coerced to do a parents’ bidding even from across the country. As I said, there is no proof she is even alive nevermind involved; its all just a thought.

    B) This woman was not his MOM, so I do not see him having the same respect for her that you had for your mom. Respect does not have to be admiration. I had respect for my mom’s authority and her ability to “put me in my place”, but I did not always have admiration for her. The article leads me to believe the boy saw Kenzie as a THREAT to his home and NOT AS A BENEFIT.

    And I know some will take great exception to what I am about to say, ( and I have no idea how old you are) but when I was a kid, access to violent or sexual or perverse media was not as prevolent as it is today. Anything and everyhting is available not just on the WEB but also on cable TV and in theaters and music stores. I can remember when I was young, the worst FICTIONAL creature I had to worry about was a 35 foot shark. Even Jason and Michael were not as “available” as they are now. Kids these days are bombarded with more visual and audio influences than they ever have been in previous generations.
    I am NOT necessarily saying its all wrong, but it seems parents and their abilities are not in step with the times. The more violent and perverse our society becomes, the more the parents have to step up and be ready to council and lead the children.
    Just my opinion.

  • sarabei

    And I know some will take great exception to what I am about to say, ( and I have no idea how old you are) but when I was a kid, access to violent or sexual or perverse media was not as prevolent as it is today. Anything and everyhting is available not just on the WEB but also on cable TV and in theaters and music stores. I can remember when I was young, the worst FICTIONAL creature I had to worry about was a 35 foot shark. Even Jason and Michael were not as “available” as they are now. Kids these days are bombarded with more visual and audio influences than they ever have been in previous generations.
    I am NOT necessarily saying its all wrong, but it seems parents and their abilities are not in step with the times. The more violent and perverse our society becomes, the more the parents have to step up and be ready to council and lead the children.
    Just my opinion.

    I was literally weaned on horror films. I am 43 years young…lol. I was allowed to watch and read pretty much whatever I wanted. I always understood that it was entertainment only, never “real” or to be taken into the real world. I disagree that he had help, something is missing in this boy, something vital.

  • RunecirE

    I was literally weaned on horror films. I am 43 years young…lol. I was allowed to watch and read pretty much whatever I wanted. I always understood that it was entertainment only, never “real” or to be taken into the real world. I disagree that he had help, something is missing in this boy, something vital.

    Sounds like your parents did exactly what they needed to do to make sure you grew up with a good sense of reality. Parents ( in general) these days, I feel, have lost some of this ability or they are not as persistent as they should be.

    I agree some wire is not hooked properly in his head (you can’t grow a flower in sand). If there was a secondary influence, his mind had to be “furtile ground” to allow such a thought to grow.

  • CassieMomma

    This kid knew exactly what he was doing, and even though he’s incarcerated, he got what he wanted. Some people, including kids, are just plain evil & no amount of rehabilitation can cure them.

    Agree

    NEVER EVER LET THIS KID OUT OF JUVEE OR JAIL HE IS A TIME BOMB AND HE WILL KILL AGAIN, IT IS IN HIS BLOOD, EVEN THOUGH HE IS A YOUNGSTER AT THE AGE OF 11, SORRY SOMETHING IS NOT RIGHT IN HIS HEAD FOR HIM TO HAVE DONE SUCH AN ACT

    Agree. Just because he’s 11 doesn’t mean he can be rehabed. Sometimes you just got to lock them up and throw away the key.

  • biteme

    Utterly reckless.
    In my house my kids dont even get water guns.
    it all starts with water guns, next thing you know they’re shooting each other with real guns
    just like beer & marijuana, next thing you know everyone’s shooting up heroin
    In my house we keep the steak knives & baseball bats locked up, can’t be to safe

  • SumrLilli

    RunecirE, your 9:29am post says exactly what I feel.

    An open dialogue with parents guiding and directing children is absolutely necessary to navigate this world today. Can we change the world to make it less “in our children’s face” ? No. We can prepare our children for the overwhelming emotions and temptations that they may face.

    I am prepared to have absolutely any conversation necessary to insure that I take responsibility for assisting my child in dealing with his issues as they arise throughout his life.

    My son will be 11 in March. I feel certain that he would feel very threatened by a new partner in my life accompanied with children. I think he would experience emotions that would be absolutely overwhelming. It is my job as his parent to help him deal with those emotions and not expect him to get over it or deal with it on his own.

    Children weren’t born with the capabilities to handle some of the lifestyle choices and experiences that we as parents are faced with as a result of where the world is today. I have no idea what the situation was in this family, but I am blown away by the assumption that adults often make that children are all resilient and will get over everything and anything that transpires in the adult’s lives (often tremendously affecting the child).

    NOT all children are resilient. And they ALL have a limited resilience. I don’t plan to sacrifice my life for my child, I want balance and a full life of my own. But I recognize it is my job to help my child roll with the changes in our family as they come.

  • RunecirE

    My youngest is 13, and we have pistols and rifles and shotguns. ALL OF WHICH REMAINED LOCKED UP AT ALL TIMES WHEN NOT IN USE. My 13yo knows how to load, unload, dismantle and clean, and respect every weapon I own. He also knows that when he is in someone elses house and the friend pulls out a weapon, HE GETS THE HELL OUTTA THERE.

    It is possible to teach Gun Safety to children so they know what to do and when to do it. It’s the way I grew up, and its the way my boys have been raised. I would rather them know and not freeze up in a bad situation, then piss all over themselves in fear if such a situation arises, OR, as in most cases involving gun accidents, stand there while both try to look cool with a loaded weapon “til it ACCIDENTALLY goes off and someone dies.

  • sarabei

    Sounds like your parents did exactly what they needed to do to make sure you grew up with a good sense of reality. Parents ( in general) these days, I feel, have lost some of this ability or they are not as persistent as they should be.

    I agree, some parents today do want the responsibility of actual parenting. Television, or actually ANY media of entertainment is NOT a babysitter and should not be treated as such.

  • RunecirE

    I am prepared to have absolutely any conversation necessary to insure that I take responsibility for assisting my child in dealing with his issues as they arise throughout his life.

    You said it…RESPONSIBILITY! That is the part that seems to be lacking in so many of the parents we read about, and especially in this story.

    When we give parents a pass on “they should have known or done better” we become the enablers that keep them from become more responsible later. My Dad was good at discipline, not because he “whooped” me, but because he took the time to say, “You screwed up. This is how, this is why, this is where. Now do better next time. If you need help knowing how to do better, let me know.”

    A lot of times my criticism of parents is viewed as condemnation, when all I am trying to do is point out where they messed up and hope they do better in the future.

  • biteme

    My youngest is 13, and we have pistols and rifles and shotguns. ALL OF WHICH REMAINED LOCKED UP AT ALL TIMES WHEN NOT IN USE. My 13yo knows how to load, unload, dismantle and clean, and respect every weapon I own. He also knows that when he is in someone elses house and the friend pulls out a weapon, HE GETS THE HELL OUTTA THERE.

    It is possible to teach Gun Safety to children so they know what to do and when to do it. It’s the way I grew up, and its the way my boys have been raised. I would rather them know and not freeze up in a bad situation, then piss all over themselves in fear if such a situation arises, OR, as in most cases involving gun accidents, stand there while both try to look cool with a loaded weapon “til it ACCIDENTALLY goes off and someone dies.

    agree
    I’ll take knowledge & respect over ignorance any day
    We have many guns all locked in a gun safe, loaders, bullets, pellets, powder, shells and so on. We have bows & arrows, spearguns & so on
    All my kids have learned gun safety and shot guns.

    He also knows that when he is in someone elses house and the friend pulls out a weapon, HE GETS THE HELL OUTTA THERE.
    dam important message

  • Athena

    I think so, we have SOMETHING that stops us from acting on it though at any age……something is missing in these kids who kill……and it is something I don’t think can be fixed.

    That “something” is often more supportive parents and less adversity in our lives. My life growing up wasn’t “bump-free”, but I had my two biological parents, both of whom were very supportive, lived in the same neighborhood my whole life, had the same friends my whole life and only had one sibling. So, yeah, while I can honestly say I never contemplated killing anyone, I also don’t know what it’s like to go through a divorce (who knows how nasty it was?), be shuffled between parents and then have dad bring in three new girls, one of whom can tell me what to do and is in the process of growing a replacement unit for me.

    Best case scenario, that sucks pretty bad. Worst case scenario, the kid acts out violently. Nightmare scenario, the kid has a gun at his disposal.

    But if you’re convinced kids who kill are unfixable, why is it that the vast majority of children who killed as a minor don’t kill again, or even get arrested for another serious crime, after their release? Sure, we won’t know about this particular child until we cross that bridge, but the assumption that he is unfixable is pure speculation that isn’t even based on the available data.

  • sarabei

    That “something” is often more supportive parents and less adversity in our lives. My life growing up wasn’t “bump-free”, but I had my two biological parents, both of whom were very supportive, lived in the same neighborhood my whole life, had the same friends my whole life and only had one sibling. So, yeah, while I can honestly say I never contemplated killing anyone, I also don’t know what it’s like to go through a divorce (who knows how nasty it was?), be shuffled between parents and then have dad bring in three new girls, one of whom can tell me what to do and is in the process of growing a replacement unit for me.

    Best case scenario, that sucks pretty bad. Worst case scenario, the kid acts out violently. Nightmare scenario, the kid has a gun at his disposal.

    But if you’re convinced kids who kill are unfixable, why is it that the vast majority of children who killed as a minor don’t kill again, or even get arrested for another serious crime, after their release? Sure, we won’t know about this particular child until we cross that bridge, but the assumption that he is unfixable is pure speculation that isn’t even based on the available data.

    Mine wasn’t bump free either, My mother had serious mental issues that required my constant care, and I mean total care, I was preparing her meals, VERY strong meds, and catherizing her all by myself by the age of 10, and dealing with her multible (so called, never did believe her) personalities as well as multiple suicide attempts which I dealt with alone while my dad was an over the road truck driver. So yeah, pretty unhappy lil child there. Add to the abuse, mental and physical, and leaving home at 14 and not having a stable environment until then, how is it I didn’t kill some one? I didn’t have the support system you mention, the neat neighborhood, or friends. I couldn’t go to sleep overs and I certainly couldn’t have friends over, WAY to embarrassing. I am basing my feelings on my own experiences. There is something missing in a brain that can kill without thought, unless they are defending themselves, which apparently isn’t the case here. Maybe the kids who get out and don’t kill again just don’t get caught?

  • Jury

    KILL HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • MadeaBecBec

    Remember this story? This happened in my Home State….

    From-http://www.knowgangs.com/school_resources/jonesboro/menu.php
    The Jonesboro school massacre occurred on Tuesday, March 24, 1998, in Craighead County, Arkansas, near northwestern Jonesboro. Four female students and a teacher were killed, and nine other students and a teacher were wounded, by two armed middle school boys: Mitchell Johnson, age 13, and Andrew Golden, age 11.

    On the morning of the massacre the boys, both dressed in army-style camoflagued clothes, stole a van from Johnson’s home, and after loading it with camping supplies, food, and 7 weapons (including two semi-automatic rifles, one bolt-action rifle and four handguns) which had been stolen from their Grandfather’s house.

    Andrew Golden and Mitchell Johnson both came from divorced families. Mitchell’s mother had remarried an inmate at the prison where she was a guard. Mitchell reportedly had a good relationship with his stepfather and siblings. Adults who knew him described him as quiet and respectful. He faithfully attended church and sang in choir. However, his fellow students told a different story about a darker side. They said he was a braggart and a bully. He talked of wanting to belong to gangs and smoke marijuana. He also spoke of “having a lot of killing to do” and a bitter grudge against Shannon Wright. People who knew Andrew Golden also describe a darker side. He had once reportedly shot a classmate in the face with a pellet gun. There were reports that he had killed a playmate’s cat and placed it in a trash can. However, no charges were filed against him. Many psychologists and criminal profilers have pointed out that serial killers often begin by killing animals.

    Now this;
    But Mitchell Johnson has had his chance to make it in The Real World, and failed.

    Johnson pleaded guilty Tuesday in Benton County court to theft and financial identity fraud, both felonies, and to misdemeanor possession of a controlled substance. Last month he was sentenced to four years in prison on a federal weapons conviction.

    Johnson and Andrew Golden, then 11, killed four pupils and a teacher at Westside Middle School near Jonesboro in 1998. Their ages limited the length of their incarcerations, and both were freed at age 21.

    In the latest case, Johnson was accused of taking a debit card left by a disabled man at the gas station where he worked. Police said that when Johnson was arrested Feb. 2, he was in possession of marijuana.

    Sentencing is set for Nov. 14. Benton County prosecutor Van Stone said he will seek the maximum sentence and may try to make the schoolyard slayings an issue under a new law that allows juveniles to be punished as adults once they serve their juvenile court sentence.

    Johnson’s lawyer, Scott McElveen, said Wednesday that he will argue that none of the crimes Johnson committed as a juvenile can factor into the punishment for his latest offenses. “It’s inadmissible,” he said.
    From-http://jerrythegeek.blogspot.com/2008/10/jonesboro-school-shooter-again-facing.html

    You could say it rehab worked for one, but not the other…….

  • Abroad

    You could say it rehab worked for one, but not the other…….

    So do you advocate preventing the other from becoming a productive member of society because one offended again?

  • Athena

    There is something missing in a brain that can kill without thought, unless they are defending themselves, which apparently isn’t the case here. Maybe the kids who get out and don’t kill again just don’t get caught?

    Unlikely. We’re talking about hundreds of youths, here.

    It’s not that something’s necessarily “missing”. Not all people who kill unprovoked are sociopaths.

    It’s hard to speculate, at this point. We really don’t know anything about his history. Was he a bad student? Did he have difficulty getting along with other kids? Did he abuse his new siblings or family pets? These things would signal sociopathy. But, if he’s otherwise a normal kid, then it’s not that simple. Sometimes, it’s not that something is missing, its that it has yet to develop.

    I just think this kid deserves a shot a rehabilitation. There are psychologists and boards that can monitor him and determine if he poses a risk to society. I think that would be preferable to a “lock him up and throw away the key” approach.

  • sarabei

    It’s hard to speculate, at this point. We really don’t know anything about his history. Was he a bad student? Did he have difficulty getting along with other kids? Did he abuse his new siblings or family pets? These things would signal sociopathy. But, if he’s otherwise a normal kid, then it’s not that simple. Sometimes, it’s not that something is missing, its that it has yet to develop.

    I have actually wondered about his too, and as it is speculated where is his bio mom? And could this have been prevented had anyone listened to the threats he was making against Kenzie and the baby??

  • Abroad

    And could this have been prevented had anyone listened to the threats he was making against Kenzie and the baby??

    Someone clearly should have taken him seriously; but it is always easy to see what should have been done after the fact.

    They might have assumed he was just venting. That is what I assume when I see people imagine the wrath they would like to visit on the perpetrators on this site. Heaven forbid anyone here ever act on it……

  • CassieMomma

    We are talking about an 11 year old who not once but twice grabbed his riffle, covered it up with a blanket as to not be detected, walked to the room where his step mom was sleeping, put it up against her head and fired. On top of that he went to school to go on with his day as nothing had happened. Personally I would never want to run across this kid anytime down the road. What he did was deliberate and I never, ever would trust him again.

  • Athena

    I was under the impression that he made the comment about wanting to kill her to another kid. That kid probably didn’t recognize the significance of the statement until after what had happened. He probably didn’t even tell his dad until that point.

  • Abroad

    According to the write-up, it was Kenzie’s family that told police he had threatened her.

    Even Kenzie herself might have thought he was just venting……..

  • sarabei

    http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6676009

    PITTSBURGH – February 24, 2009 – — An 11-year-old boy accused of killing his father’s pregnant fiance had been making threats about harming the woman for a while, the woman’s mother said Tuesday.
    Debbie Houk said Jordan Brown often gave 26-year-old Kenzie Marie Houk a hard time, especially when his father wasn’t around. Brown and his dad Christopher lived with Houk and her two small daughters in a farmhouse in the rural western Pennsylvania town of Wampum.
    “It’s been at least two months that he’s made the threats,” Debbie Houk said, adding that Jordan “just bucked her (Kenzie) a lot when his Dad wasn’t around.”
    “Chris was good about it. He tried. He told him, ‘Don’t you ever disrespect her,”‘ Debbie Houk added.
    Story continues belowAdvertisementJordan Brown was charged as an adult Saturday with killing Houk and her unborn baby boy the day before as she lay in her bed. Authorities believe the killing was premeditated. They say Brown came downstairs with two guns, but returned upstairs after Houk’s 7-year-old daughter saw him; they believe he then hid the gun in a blanket and came back downstairs to Houk’s bedroom and shot her in the back of the head.
    Later, the 7-year-old girl told police she saw the boy drop something on the ground from his pocket before they got on the bus. Police said they found a spent shotgun shell in the same spot.
    On Monday, Jason Kraner, Kenzie’s brother-in-law, told several reporters the boy also told his son he wanted to kill Kenzie and her daughters.
    “Jordan had told (my son around Christmas) he was going to pop Kenzie in the head and pop both kids. We didn’t believe it. … We told Chris and Kenzie and they didn’t believe it,” Kraner said.
    A funeral for Houk and her baby boy, who was named Christopher after his father, was planned for Tuesday evening.
    The boy’s attorney, Dennis Elisco, did not immediately return a telephone call seeking comment Tuesday. Elisco has said he had no indication the boy had a problem with Houk.
    Brown is being held at the Lawrence County Jail, in a cell isolated from the adult inmates, and Elisco has said he will seek to get the boy released.
    Debbie Houk said Jordan, a hunter, knew a lot about guns and was a good shot. On Valentine’s Day, he beat out many older and more experienced hunters at a turkey shoot.
    “I’ll never cook that turkey. It’s the same gun that killed my daughter,” she said. “So he knew what a gun did. He knew the dangers of a gun.”

  • RunecirE

    .“I’ll never cook that turkey. It’s the same gun that killed my daughter,” she said. “So he knew what a gun did. He knew the dangers of a gun.”

    How very sad. Sounds, for all intents and purposes, like they all tried to give this boy a good home.

  • Abroad

    On Monday, Jason Kraner, Kenzie’s brother-in-law, told several reporters the boy also told his son he wanted to kill Kenzie and her daughters.
    “Jordan had told (my son around Christmas) he was going to pop Kenzie in the head and pop both kids. We didn’t believe it. … We told Chris and Kenzie and they didn’t believe it,” Kraner said.

    Bingo!

    Sometimes the truth stares us right in the face, and we just will not believe it. Would that Kenzie and Chris had been more willing to take this seriously…….

  • Aslan

    But if you’re convinced kids who kill are unfixable, why is it that the vast majority of children who killed as a minor don’t kill again, or even get arrested for another serious crime, after their release? .

    This left me wondering..
    Aren’t juvenile records sealed? If it weren’t a high profile case, would we be more likely to hear about it again even if it did happen?
    Just curious.

  • 2 boys mom in NC

    I have held off commenting on this one but here goes…I just think something, somebody really fucked up this kid. I mean you have an innocent little child born to you and within eleven years he commits PREMEDITATED MURDER!
    Aren’t we as parents supposed to teach our children right from wrong, good from bad, and general society guidelines.
    I’m sorry (put down the clubs and step away…) I just feel that with this kind or rage and evilness something has been brewing inside of this child for a long time. NOT blaming anyone in particular but this is a child that commited a henious act of violence. I believe there is more to this than any of us will ever know. Eleven years is a short span of time to learn how to inflict this kind of pain.
    And I do agree, now that this is done I don’t believe this boy could ever be let out in society safely again.
    Praying for them all…

  • RunecirE

    This left me wondering..Aren’t juvenile records sealed? If it weren’t a high profile case, would we be more likely to hear about it again even if it did happen?Just curious.

    You, as the perp, must petition the court to seal them, at least in this state, and they can always be re-opened by court order, especially if a repeat is suspected.

    I just feel that with this kind or rage and evilness something has been brewing inside of this child for a long time. NOT blaming anyone in particular but this is a child that commited a henious act of violence.

    No clubs, I promise. The mind of an 11yo is still pliable enough that if he is given the proper treament and counciling, he could very well turn things around. It has to be done right. I feel we need to give it a chance. I hate the thought of setting a precedence that could keep those that are rehabilitatable(sp) from getting the necessary treatment.
    What if it turns out that they find the “crossed wire”. My cousin is bipolar and at 10 he took a steak knife to school and had a kid pinned up against a locker with the knife against the kid’s throat. After twenty years of medication and counciling ( and they weren’t easy years either) he is doing well and now has a wife and two beautiful children. I for one am glad they didn’t throw away the key.

  • CassieMomma

    Your cousin didn’t brutally murder someone though. Of course it was a heinous act of violence, but not the same.

  • RunecirE

    Your cousin didn’t brutally murder someone though. Of course it was a heinous act of violence, but not the same.

    The only reason he didn’t is because the teacher got ahold of him first. It could have ended a lot worse had she been a few seconds too late. He was REALLY screwed up in the head. He told the police he intended to do it.

    Spent several years in the Child Psych ward in Denver and Pueblo. Really tough on my Aunt and Uncle.

  • SumrLilli

    2 Boys Mom, we think very much alike.

    Parental responsibility.

    Seems like we (parents) are so busy living our own lives these days we forget that we have such a strong impact on our children in everything (good, bad, consciously, unknowingly) we do and in every choice we make. How many children’s lives have been ruined by the choices of their parents?? Directly – like so many of the stories we see here on DD? Or indirectly simply by the parents following their own path without noticing what their child’s reaction is? (the latter of which I think may be quite possible in this case of Jordan Brown)

  • CassieMomma

    I’m sure it was tough for the whole family no arguement about that. I have read though the first time is the hardest and after that it gets easier. I think it’s different for him because although close, he was rehabed before commiting an actual murder. Question for you……would you feel comfortable with your cousin alone with your children?

  • 2 boys mom in NC

    Damn, Runecire! I’m sure that was nasty for all involved. You know, as a parent, (I started to type “as parents” but some just ain’t parents) I try to keep in mind that my two boys are going to be men that I have to let out into the world. They are going to make some shitty choices. I just want them to make choices that they learned at home from love and learned responsibility and I don’t want those shitty choices they make to hurt others. You know, babies don’t come with instruction booklets. We do the best we can. But honestly, to have your “baby” do something like this…or even what your Aunt and Uncle went through. It has got to be heart breaking!

  • RunecirE

    .

    Question for you……would you feel comfortable with your cousin alone with your children?

    Now? Yes. Then? Abosolutely not.
    And I agree it’s not exactly the same. It like an animal before and after it gets the taste of blood in its mouth.

    This boy is going to have far greater challenges to overcome than my cousin BECAUSE he will always have the image and thoughts in his head of what he has done. I just hate the thought of not giving time and treatment a chance.

  • RunecirE

    But honestly, to have your “baby” do something like this…or even what your Aunt and Uncle went through. It has got to be heart breaking!

    It was especially difficult because my Cousin inherited it from my Aunt. Her’s was a depression based imbalance, where his was an agression based imbalance. But, they all made it through, and now she has wonderful grandchildren to spoil. I don’t know that I would have the strength it took for them to keep going.

  • CassieMomma

    Sometimes people just can’t be what we want them to be. Sometimes evil is present and we can’t change that. At 11 years old (like 2 boys mom said) that isn’t a lot of time to learn that behavior and hate. For what he did and how young he was when he did it, I believe he was born that way.

  • RunecirE

    I feel it has come down to an “Only time will tell” situation.

  • CassieMomma

    I feel it has come down to an “Only time will tell” situation.

    yep and I really am sorry that your family had to go through the tradegy of your cousin. I hope you didn’t think I was being rude. I tend to be very blunt sometimes. 🙂

  • RunecirE

    yep and I really am sorry that your family had to go through the tradegy of your cousin. I hope you didn’t think I was being rude. I tend to be very blunt sometimes.

    Thank you for you kindness.

    No rudeness detected. Even though there are some on here I do not always agree with, I feel comfortable lending personnal stories if they have some bearing. We’re all Demonites, and I welcome critiques and responses.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    As a Mom of an 11 yr old. Let’s get all the facts about the case before we crucify an 11 year old CHILD! I find it sad and disturbing that you’re so quick to judge a CHILD. I have an 11 year old. Children cannot handle emotions as well as adults, you’re lying to yourself if you believe otherwise . This boy is from a broken home, let’s remember that the 7 year old was there too. Shotgun in a blanket or not, could be heard when fired in a home??? My son was emotionally raw when his father and I divorced, he had all these emotions he couldn’t handle, would cry all throughout the day, and had moments of total anger sadness and guilt, he had highs and lows throughout the process. I witnessed first hand how a child simply cannot absorb all of these emotions. My heart goes out to Jordan. I pray for peace in his heart,mind and soul. How terrified I would be to be 11 and locked up, not with my loved ones during such a difficult time. I believe that IF Jordan pulled the trigger, it’s because he was coached by someone to do so. Children can be rehabilitated better than adults… We have murderers walking the streets within years of conviction and people in jail for longer periods of time for far lesser crimes. If it were possible for me to be mentor to Jordan, I would. Bless his heart. He’s just a boy. You all should be ashamed for your hostile and hateful comments.

  • CassieMomma

    The difference between your son and Jordan is that your son CRIED, not MURDERED someone. Jordan is sick to have done something like this. I still believe that he will never be able to be rehabed and I am not ashamed of anything I said.

  • sarabei

    As a Mom of an 11 yr old. Let’s get all the facts about the case before we crucify an 11 year old CHILD! I find it sad and disturbing that you’re so quick to judge a CHILD. I have an 11 year old. Children cannot handle emotions as well as adults, you’re lying to yourself if you believe otherwise . This boy is from a broken home, let’s remember that the 7 year old was there too. Shotgun in a blanket or not, could be heard when fired in a home??? My son was emotionally raw when his father and I divorced, he had all these emotions he couldn’t handle, would cry all throughout the day, and had moments of total anger sadness and guilt, he had highs and lows throughout the process. I witnessed first hand how a child simply cannot absorb all of these emotions. My heart goes out to Jordan. I pray for peace in his heart,mind and soul. How terrified I would be to be 11 and locked up, not with my loved ones during such a difficult time. I believe that IF Jordan pulled the trigger, it’s because he was coached by someone to do so. Children can be rehabilitated better than adults… We have murderers walking the streets within years of conviction and people in jail for longer periods of time for far lesser crimes. If it were possible for me to be mentor to Jordan, I would. Bless his heart. He’s just a boy. You all should be ashamed for your hostile and hateful comments.

    Who will speak for the victim? Remember her and her unborn son? The two whose life was snuffed out for no reason? My feelings, prayers, etc. go to THEM, they deserve it. He doesn’t. It is people like you that are part of the problem. “Jordan was coached”. Yeah, ummm right. Can’t face the fact that this kid cold bloodily killed can you?? I am not ashamed by any remark I have made about this killer. I stand by my feelings where he is concerned; juvie till adult then prison for a looooong time.

  • Athena

    If it were possible for me to be mentor to Jordan, I would. Bless his heart. He’s just a boy. You all should be ashamed for your hostile and hateful comments.

    Hear, hear!

    The fact is, Jordan’s dad and Kenzie only started dating last May, and she got knocked up within a month. By December, she and her kids were moved into Jordan’s home. We’re talking about a total span of roughly 6 months, here. Did Jordan view this woman and her children as threats? ABSOLUTELY. His father was an idiot for forcing this situation on an 11 year old so quickly. My sister and I, both adults, were PISSED when my father married a woman he was dating for less than a year… and she doesn’t have any kids for us to have to get along with, and we don’t have to live with her. Knowing the emotional strain their situation put my sister and me through, I can only imagine how difficult it was for Jordan. It would have been exceptionally difficult on anyone. Here’s a kid who’s ONLY ever had his dad, and VERY suddenly, his dad’s attention is split between him and three and a half new people.

    It’s irresponsible to try to downplay the significance of this. From his perspective, these strangers have come in and stolen the only parent he has left. I sympathize. While it doesn’t justify what he did, it certainly gives us some perspective that deserves to be considered. The speed at which this scenario developed would have made any 11 year old sick in the head. Add a gun to it, and you’ve got yourself a dangerous situation.

  • sarabei

    Athena,

    Most adults still have a problem when their parents re-marry. I am sure this child went through an emotional roller coaster. That I am not downplaying; most kids in this situation do. The difference is most don’t murder as this one did. Had he not had access to a gun I feel sure he would have found other means. He obviously wanted her dead. And he KNEW what dead was. Perm. gone.

  • Athena

    Had he not had access to a gun I feel sure he would have found other means.

    I’m not sure sure about that at all. The kid’s 11. It’s pretty tough for an 11 year old to kill an adult, even in their sleep, without a gun. You hear about young children shooting and killing people relatively often. How often do you hear of kids stabbing people to death or successfully poisoning them? I’ve never once. This was all about impulse and opportunity.

    Also, there’s a big difference, in my opinion, between the average remarriage process and what happened in this situation. I would imagine that most people date for awhile, then introduce them to their kid, then move in together, then get married, then get pregant. This situation went backward, and in a much shorter time period. That, from my perspective, seems much more damaging, especially to an only child with a single father, than the average remarriage.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    CassieMomma,

    I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone like you. You’re obviously one of those unhappy people, you know the ones that have no forgiveness in their hearts…. Thanks for showing the world your ignorance! I simply said my heart goes out to him, he’s just a child. Yes, he MIGHT have done a terrible thing and I’m not down playing that. UNLESS YOU KNOW ALL THE FACTS… LAY OFF THE ATTACKS OF AN 11 YEAR OLD…. Of course we know better as sane adults than to behave in such a way…children on emotional rollercoasters aren’t as mentally capable.

    Sarabei,

    You’re probably the biggest moron I’ve ever come in contact with. YES I DO Sympathize with the lives lost and their loved ones… I’m not a monster. So… I’m the problem because I tell you to get the facts before you crucify? An 11yr old doesn’t dream up what Jordan is accused of without a reason…be it abuse, coaching or whatever… Sick people need love too. Again, just another hater in this world…I think you’re the pot calling the kettle black. It’s people like you that are part of the problem of this world….

    Judge not less ye be judged….. What if this boy were your family member or loved one? Would you be so quick to judge an hate? Hate in your heart for people you don’t know, situations they live in, etc… very sad.

    This is sad for all involved. This is a horrible tragedy. I pray for all involved and even the hateful monsters that have commented negatively on this subject. May God be with you.

    Athena,

    I agree. Thanks for trying to help people understand what frame of mind a child would be in to possibly do such a thing. This world certainly needs more compassionate people in it.

    RIP Kenzie & Christopher

  • sarabei

    Sarabei,

    You’re probably the biggest moron I’ve ever come in contact with. YES I DO Sympathize with the lives lost and their loved ones… I’m not a monster. So… I’m the problem because I tell you to get the facts before you crucify? An 11yr old doesn’t dream up what Jordan is accused of without a reason…be it abuse, coaching or whatever… Sick people need love too. Again, just another hater in this world…I think you’re the pot calling the kettle black. It’s people like you that are part of the problem of this world….

    Coming from someone as “intelligent” ***cough*** as you I consider that a compliment. Might a suggest you do a little research before you spout nonsense? There are a lot of child killers who were not “coached”. There has been no evidence this murderer was coached. Here a just a couple of child killers there are many more if you care to look.

    Jasmine Richardson
    Tess Damm

    Nope I am not part of the problem, I don’t support murderers and my sympathy ALWAYS with very few exceptions will always go where it belongs, to the victim.

    Judge not less ye be judged….. What if this boy were your family member or loved one? Would you be so quick to judge an hate? Hate in your heart for people you don’t know, situations they live in, etc… very sad.

    Were this boy in my family I would want the same punishment for him as I have already stated numerous times, even if he were my own son.

    This is sad for all involved. This is a horrible tragedy. I pray for all involved and even the hateful monsters that have commented negatively on this subject. May God be with you.

    I don’t need nor want your prayers, I am proud of every comment I have made here. Save it for someone who needs it; me and my God are just fine thank you very much.

  • sarabei

    I’m not sure sure about that at all. The kid’s 11. It’s pretty tough for an 11 year old to kill an adult, even in their sleep, without a gun. You hear about young children shooting and killing people relatively often. How often do you hear of kids stabbing people to death or successfully poisoning them? I’ve never once. This was all about impulse and opportunity.

    Not often, but the stabbing made me think of Mary Bell, and the poisoning reminded me of another UK boy that I can’t remember the name of. Not common though.

    Also, there’s a big difference, in my opinion, between the average remarriage process and what happened in this situation. I would imagine that most people date for awhile, then introduce them to their kid, then move in together, then get married, then get pregant. This situation went backward, and in a much shorter time period. That, from my perspective, seems much more damaging, especially to an only child with a single father, than the average remarriage.

    I agree with that, they should have been sure the family unit was coming together well before moving in etc. Plus the threats he made prior to this should have been taken into consideration, talking to and getting counseling at the least and this maybe could have been avoided.

  • Lavonna

    Mom with an 11 YR Old
    Why do you feel the need to attack members on here? Because their opinions don’t match yours?

    You telling Cassiemomma that you expect no less from her and telling Sarabei that she is a moron shows your true colors. Attack them because they don’t have my opinons.. Well, you’re a bitch

  • Abroad

    I agree with that, they should have been sure the family unit was coming together well before moving in etc. Plus the threats he made prior to this should have been taken into consideration, talking to and getting counseling at the least and this maybe could have been avoided.

    They thought he was just a child and would get over it in time. They thought he would adjust to what he couldn’t change, never realising that he did have the means to change it.

    I agree with Athena that the easy access to a firearm plays a big part in this tragedy……

  • RunecirE

    Children are extremely sesnative to ANYTHIng that disrupts The normailty of their life. We see it all the time as foster parents. Children can suffer from various forms of Trauma just like soldiers and firefighters and policemen. They have an even higher rate of PTSD than most soldiers because they do not have the coping capabilities that most adults due. So, lets take a look at what could possibly thrown this boy off balance (some speculation is involved as I do not have all the Facts) :

    A) Mom & Dad are no longer together. (how long separated and how much time did Jordan have to adjust to not having them in the same house?)
    B) Dad has a new flame(Was she the cause of the original breakup, and were the kids’ feelings ever addressed BEFORE the hook-up took place, i.e. “Jordan, I am thinking of asking this woman on a date, how do you feel about this”?) When a child feels included in life-altering decisions, they have a better chance of coping with the changes involved.
    C) Dad’s new flame is moving in(Again, was Jordan ever included in ANY discussion involving this move?)
    D) Jordan is under pressure from Mom regarding new flame and her jealousies pertaining to new situation her kids have been put into (speculative) (Is she putting pressure on Jordan from afar, i.e. “You still love me more, right?”, “She’s not being mean to you, right?”, “What do you mean she’s moving in, and what kind of a ***** is your father to let this happen?”, “We have to do something about this. She should not be living there. She is going to push you out of your Father’s life just like she did me.”, etc. etc.) If this is the case, the emotional effects of two homes and split loyalties is now likely tearing this boy in two.

    And the list could go on with more speculation. What effect would this situation have on any of us as adults? What would this do to us as 11 year olds with little or no emotional firewalls to protect us?

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Coming from someone as “intelligent” ***cough*** as you I consider that a compliment. Might a suggest you do a little research before you spout nonsense? There are a lot of child killers who were not “coached”. There has been no evidence this murderer was coached. Here a just a couple of child killers there are many more if you care to look.

    Actually I’m not obssesed with child killers, I don’t research them. This case caught my attention on my local news. I have an 11 year old and I also am a compassionate person. Maybe we should lock you up and throw away the key??? How many times do I have to say it before you get it? I do sympathize with the victims and their family. I won’t say it again for you!

    Were this boy in my family I would want the same punishment for him as I have already stated numerous times, even if he were my own son.

    I don’t believe that! If it is true… how sad for your children.

    I don’t need nor want your prayers, I am proud of every comment I have made here. Save it for someone who needs it; me and my God are just fine thank you very much.

    There is but only one that doesn’t need prayer… You’re not him!

    I can sympathize with whomever I so choose.

    I agree with that, they should have been sure the family unit was coming together well before moving in etc. Plus the threats he made prior to this should have been taken into consideration, talking to and getting counseling at the least and this maybe could have been avoided.

    Smartest thing you’ve said thus far! Kudos!

  • Abroad

    Smartest thing you’ve said thus far! Kudos!

    I happen to agree that this was particularly perceptive of Sarabei; but coming after the judgmental codswallop that went before, I am not sure she’ll be grateful to you for the approval.

  • Lavonna

    I can sympathize with whomever I so choose.

    Then why can’t Sarabei sympathize with who she wants and you not be a bitch to her?

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Mom with an 11 YR OldWhy do you feel the need to attack members on here? Because their opinions don’t match yours?

    Oh I don’t know… because I’m bored? Duh, because of the vicious remarks of an 11 year old CHILD…. Wow, way to put things together!

    Try to keep up before you call me a B*TCH 🙂 I guess my harsh opinion is worse than that of their statements of an 11 year old??? Wow you’re a real benefit to society. Thanks for that. You’re so appreciated! Thanks for name calling, makes me feel better about my comments. You’re pathetic. Thanks for the attack and showing us how stupid people are… If I’m anything, it’s a EDUCATED, COMPASSIONATE, LOVING, and WONDERFUL MOTHER! Just to let you know. Do you even have children? Give me a break… You have no idea what you’re talking about!

    RunecirE: Whew, another intelligent adult, WELL SAID!

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    I happen to agree that this was particularly perceptive of Sarabei; but coming after the judgmental codswallop that went before, I am not sure she’ll be grateful to you for the approval.

    My apologies to you for the codswallop, but she seems a bit consumed with child killers, just trying to open her heart up to the child in this case. I really could care less if she is grateful.

    Then why can’t Sarabei sympathize with who she wants and you not be a bitch to her?

    Oh how I wish you’d shut up until or unless you have something intelligent to contribute.

    Takes a bitch to know a bitch 🙂 Are you capable of forming sentences with out such language?

  • Abroad

    So you care?

    There is clearly hope for you yet……..

  • Lavonna

    Try to keep up before you call me a B*TCH I guess my harsh opinion is worse than that of their statements of an 11 year old??? Wow you’re a real benefit to society. Thanks for that. You’re so appreciated! Thanks for name calling, makes me feel better about my comments. You’re pathetic. Thanks for the attack and showing us how stupid people are… If I’m anything, it’s a EDUCATED, COMPASSIONATE, LOVING, and WONDERFUL MOTHER! Just to let you know. Do you even have children? Give me a break… You have no idea what you’re talking about!

    Yes I do have children, I am not some teenager. I am a 41 year old mother of a 16 & 17 year old girls and I too am educated, compassionate, loving and a wonderful mother.
    Just to let you know!
    What? Piss you off when I called you a bitch? Good, You had no right or reason to smart off to Cassiemomma and Saraebi so I gave you what you gave them. That being said………
    We don’t have to agree with each other on here but we don’t have to attack each other either. Damn, grow up!

  • Lavonna

    Oh how I wish you’d shut up until or unless you have something intelligent to contribute.

    Why don’t you shut me up?

    Takes a bitch to know a bitch Are you capable of forming sentences with out such language?

    Oh, I am a bitch and I will be the first to admit that but I am also a loving, caring person who doesn’t attack other people whose opinions doesn’t match.. So bite me bitch

  • I have a 4 kids, 14, 12, 10 and 5……. divorced twice (apparently I’m the problem, not them) my kids get angry they get sad, but this is something that first I don’t have guns in my home. the teenage and pre teen years can be hard ages, but they also know right from wrong. My 10 & 5 yr old have been through 4 live in girlfriends w/kids at their dad house in the past 4 1/2 years, they don’t like the current g/f, but still could not for one moment think they would attempt to kill her. They just come home to mom and cry their tears and yell in the back yard about how they don’t like dad’s house and they talk with me about their dad. They manage to go back with my urging every other week and they know that their dad may do dumb stuff, but he still loves them.

    What this boy did is not forgiveable in my eyes. It breaks my heart to give up on a little boy, but he acted like a grown man that day he took 2 lives.

  • penelopejo

    I believe it was you, Mom with an 11 year old, who started the name calling. There was no need for it. While I don’t agree with what some posters are stating about this 11 year old child, you didn’t have to call someone a moron, nor state that you wouldn’t expect less from someone else you don’t even know. Then you go on to state that someone else should shut up unless they have something intelligent to contribute? I see nothing of intelligence coming from you. Let’s see if you can respond to me without using such foul language.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Abroad….If I didn’t care would I continue to comment.

    Lavonna…..I’m not at all pissed of at you calling me a bitch. You’re entitled to your own opinion however stupid it may be….. I think nothing of you or your DIRTY MOUTH. I guess I expect an adult to clean up their mouth a little better. I don’t recall calling you a bitch because I think you’re one of the lower intelligence people on this site. I think several people are on here attacking one another. You can give up now. I won’t bother to try to educate you on this subject or my opinion. You’re too stupid to get it…. As far as attacking… you could practice what you preach!

    This 11 year old needs compassion whatever the circumstance may be.

  • Lavonna

    Lavonna…..I’m not at all pissed of at you calling me a bitch. You’re entitled to your own opinion however stupid it may be….. I think nothing of you or your DIRTY MOUTH. I guess I expect an adult to clean up their mouth a little better. I don’t recall calling you a bitch because I think you’re one of the lower intelligence people on this site. I think several people are on here attacking one another. You can give up now. I won’t bother to try to educate you on this subject or my opinion. You’re too stupid to get it…. As far as attacking… you could practice what you preach!

    I am NOT stupid but you are still a bitch.. Not giving up just leaving work

  • Lavonna

    I believe it was you, Mom with an 11 year old, who started the name calling. There was no need for it. While I don’t agree with what some posters are stating about this 11 year old child, you didn’t have to call someone a moron, nor state that you wouldn’t expect less from someone else you don’t even know. Then you go on to state that someone else should shut up unless they have something intelligent to contribute? I see nothing of intelligence coming from you. Let’s see if you can respond to me without using such foul language.

    Thank You

  • Abroad

    Abroad….If I didn’t care would I continue to comment.

    Probably not. But since you do, it is a pity that you have elected to “debate” in a manner designed first and foremost to insult.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    I think you both should start from my original comment and see what was said about it… there you will find any reason for whatever wrong doing you think I’ve done.

    I don’t think my first comment called for their responses…human nature to defend yourself is it not.

    Care to comment about Lavonna and her mouth? Please… I’m so over what you people think of me… this is about an 11 year old boy, two people whom lost their lives and the loved ones left behind….

  • yogaluvr

    Wow. This recent string of comments is kind of embarrassing, if you ask me.

  • If you want a bible group and clean mouths – you are on the wrong site maybe, Mom of an 11 yo. Just sayin’.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Thanks for the heads up Pixie….I just see no reason for nasty dirty mouths. Yes my comments for ignorance are harsh I admit… but I don’t respond well to attacks…. 🙂

  • penelopejo

    this is about an 11 year old boy, two people whom lost their lives and the loved ones left behind….

    Yes, i do agree with you on that. But you have to understand all they were doing was stating their opinion on how they believe he knew what he was doing. How they don’t believe he was coached into killing her and the unborn child. Then you went and attacked them, calling them a moron, then stating someone else is an unhappy person just because they disagreed with you. And by all means, you can say what you want about whomever you want but know that they will come right back at you on this site.

  • ecvmanzo

    Mom with an 11 Yr Old, I don’t think that it’s right to shove your opinions down someone’s throat or to start questioning someone’s intelligence just because they don’t agree with you. That is very ignorant.

    While I don’t agree with everything being said about this boy, I can see where you ALL are coming from. You, as a mom to an 11 year old, feel compassion for this child, (the fact that he murdered someone, doesn’t take from the fact he is a CHILD). Someone failed this child FIRST.

    Lavonna and the rest of the DD see this crap all to often and well they just have a different opinion on the matter. But that does not make them stupid.

    All I can sense from the back and forth comments, is that you guys some what care about what is happening. Let’s just agree to disagree with out the insults and the attacks on people’s intelligence.

    It takes the focus away from the real picture. Okay now don’t go attacking me…lol

    Kids are not born murders. The life that he was given perhaps contributed to his actions. He still needs help.

  • Thanks for the heads up Pixie….I just see no reason for nasty dirty mouths. Yes my comments for ignorance are harsh I admit… but I don’t respond well to attacks….

    But that’s the thing – we have dirty mouths here and a wide variety of opinions. It is usually well respected.

    This site truly requires a thick skin and an ability to hear things you harshly disagree with – without freaking out.

  • Abroad

    From your original comment:

    You all should be ashamed for your hostile and hateful comments.

    I would say this is fighting talk.

    But what do you care about what I think? I am not a mother, and I gathered from other comments of yours that one has to be one to have an opinion worth listening to in this case…….

    Oh, by the way, – that sort of leaves Athena out of the reckoning, too. Just so you know.

  • While I don’t agree with everything being said about this boy, I can see where you ALL are coming from. You, as a mom to an 11 year old, feel compassion for this child, (the fact that he murdered someone, doesn’t take from the fact he is a CHILD). Someone failed this child FIRST.

    Maybe – or maybe he’s an evil kid. It’s coming to light that some people are just born with the wrong wiring. Maybe his environment added to that – mind you. That’s no excuse to murder anyone.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    penelopejo & ecvmanzo

    Again, my first comment in no way attacked anyone…. Yes I do have compassion for Jordan. I do have compassion with Kenzie & Christopher too as well as Jordan & Kenzie & Christophers loved ones that are left behind. All the facts aren’t known! I just can’t stand to see people write such things about a child they have no compassion for no matter what he’s been through. People are saying kill him and what not… he’s an 11 year old CHILD I can’t say that enough…. only a monster would want this child killed for what he did…. I can’t help it…my heart aches for him… there is nothing we can do to change the fact that kenzie and baby are dead…but I do believe this child deserves a chance at healing.

  • sarabei

    Actually I’m not obssesed with child killers, I don’t research them. This case caught my attention on my local news. I have an 11 year old and I also am a compassionate person. Maybe we should lock you up and throw away the key??? How many times do I have to say it before you get it? I do sympathize with the victims and their family. I won’t say it again for you!

    Careful, your ignorance is showing again, you can’t throw me in jail and throw away the key, I am not a murderer. And as for being obsessed? Try actually being EDUCATED….look it up, it is in Webster’s if you know what that is.

    I don’t believe that! If it is true… how sad for your children.

    Oh but it is true, believe me, that wouldn’t stop me from loving my child, and standing by them, and I don’t blame the father for being there for his child. However, the child, mine or anyone else’s that murders has to face the consequences (reference Webster again if that word is too big for you.)

    There is but only one that doesn’t need prayer… You’re not him!

    I don’t rightly give a flying fuck what you believe in or who. Worry about your soul, mine is just fine without the likes of YOU mucking around.

    I can sympathize with whomever I so choose.

    As can I.

  • I would say this is fighting talk.

    Haha – that is funny what you said there.

  • sarabei

    Oh how I wish you’d shut up until or unless you have something intelligent to contribute.

    Like you? Puhleeeze bitch!

    Takes a bitch to know a bitch Are you capable of forming sentences with out such language?

    Well here at D&D we sometimes have to talk down to the people who are too ignorant or understand what we are saying….like you.

  • kellie

    While I don’t agree with everything being said about this boy, I can see where you ALL are coming from. You, as a mom to an 11 year old, feel compassion for this child, (the fact that he murdered someone, doesn’t take from the fact he is a CHILD). Someone failed this child FIRST.

    I completely agree!!! More than one person failed this child. If he felt the best solution to his “potential step-mom-problem”was to shoot her then he was let down by the other adults around him. I’m not saying they should have seen it coming, but they might have if they’d paid attention to his threats(according to the article). Before anybody jumps on me, I’m just stating my opinion,,,,,raising a child takes more than food shelter clothes and toys,….it takes attention and letting that child know that he can rely on you and talk to you about his feelings. I just think that a lot of people these days think that all you have to do is keep them from running into the street, and you’ve done your job. Lots of people can look after a child,…but you have to RAISE them to be responsible adults. Kids are not born with a conscience.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    LMAO… that wasn’t me freaking out… thanks for the giggle!

    I stand by my statement about hateful and hostile comments… WHEN ALL THE FACTS ARE NOT KNOWN….

    Is it wrong to have compassion for a child? I don’t think so….

    I’m sorry you think that I think you should be a mother to have an opinion worth listening to… that’s not the case…

    Maybe Jordan is evil… he certainly doesn’t look it… but then again most killers don’t….

    All I’m saying is let’s try to remember all the facts aren’t known and unless you’re an immediate family member that knows everything…. how about we presume he’s innocent until proven a monster?

  • kellie

    oh, that first paragraph was supposed to be a quote, …wasn’t sure how to do it. sorry

  • All I’m saying is let’s try to remember all the facts aren’t known and unless you’re an immediate family member that knows everything…. how about we presume he’s innocent until proven a monster?

    But they don’t agree with you. That’s all there is to it.

    Yes, it is you freaking out.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    thanks for all your attacks upon this educated mother… as far as ignorance you see more of it staring at you in the mirror… websters…you actually know what that is… im sure you use it often to look up those big words you don’t know how to spell… careful lets not get on the real topic…we’re too busy insulting one another now…. here let me act like an 11 year old and roll my eyes at you….

  • penelopejo

    Again, my first comment in no way attacked anyone…. Yes I do have compassion for Jordan. I do have compassion with Kenzie & Christopher too as well as Jordan & Kenzie & Christophers loved ones that are left behind. All the facts aren’t known! I just can’t stand to see people write such things about a child they have no compassion for no matter what he’s been through. People are saying kill him and what not… he’s an 11 year old CHILD I can’t say that enough…. only a monster would want this child killed for what he did…. I can’t help it…my heart aches for him… there is nothing we can do to change the fact that kenzie and baby are dead…but I do believe this child deserves a chance at healing.

    Nope, I understand that your first comment was not attacking anyone, but they didn’t attack you after you commented in the beginning. It was your second comment that had all the name calling. Which in turn, they called you names too. While, I would not want this child dead, I would want him evaluated for a period of time, therapy if you will while in a juvenile setting, then sent to prison for a while when he becomes of age so that way he knows that he can never do it again or else he will end up in that place again. I do not believe he should get off easily. But hey, if no one agrees with me, then fine, I’m not going to waste my time arguing about people’s intelligence or how they are unhappy just because they disagree with my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and if you feel like you need to have the upper hand by putting others down, then so be it. It just goes to show how you are not contributing to anything of importance, nor how you feel on the matter.

  • ecvmanzo

    Mom with an 11 yr old, I am not attacking how you think. I am merely stating that telling someone that they are ignorant because their opinion does not match yours is wrong. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I am a mother of 4 children myself, three of them teens!

    Pixie, I agree with you…There is no excuse for murder. I am not expecting this kid to get a pat on his head and a popsicle, but DEATH, really? I think someone else should be done about this. But death is extreme.

  • sarabei

    I completely agree!!! More than one person failed this child. If he felt the best solution to his “potential step-mom-problem”was to shoot her then he was let down by the other adults around him. I’m not saying they should have seen it coming, but they might have if they’d paid attention to his threats(according to the article). Before anybody jumps on me, I’m just stating my opinion,,,,,raising a child takes more than food shelter clothes and toys,….it takes attention and letting that child know that he can rely on you and talk to you about his feelings. I just think that a lot of people these days think that all you have to do is keep them from running into the street, and you’ve done your job. Lots of people can look after a child,…but you have to RAISE them to be responsible adults. Kids are not born with a conscience.

    I agree, threats like that, especially in this day and age where almost weekly we read about a child or young adult killing should be taken seriously. I DO think children are born with something in them, I don’t know what to call it that is cultivated as they grow that keeps you from crossing the line into murder. I just think something is missing in a child who can do this, something wrong. Who knows if he had been dealt with differently with counseling it may have all been avoided, We will never know now,

  • Abroad

    Try to keep up before you call me a B*TCH I guess my harsh opinion is worse than that of their statements of an 11 year old??? Wow you’re a real benefit to society. Thanks for that. You’re so appreciated! Thanks for name calling, makes me feel better about my comments. You’re pathetic. Thanks for the attack and showing us how stupid people are… If I’m anything, it’s a EDUCATED, COMPASSIONATE, LOVING, and WONDERFUL MOTHER! Just to let you know. Do you even have children? Give me a break… You have no idea what you’re talking about!

    I didn’t like to crop this since you seemed to think I quoted you out of context before……. Tell me again that it matters what I think if I am not a mother.

    Do you know what a passive-aggressive is, Mom with an 11 YR Old?

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Pixie..thanks for the subtle little comments… I think I’m aware they don’t agree with me… their harsh comments about him are no better than my comments about this entire situation….

  • We don’t do that!

    Pixie, I agree with you…There is no excuse for murder. I am not expecting this kid to get a pat on his head and a popsicle, but DEATH, really? I think someone else should be done about this. But death is extreme.

    I’m not a big fan of the death sentence in any case. I just don’t feel much sympathy for him.

  • sarabei

    thanks for all your attacks upon this educated mother… as far as ignorance you see more of it staring at you in the mirror… websters…you actually know what that is… im sure you use it often to look up those big words you don’t know how to spell… careful lets not get on the real topic…we’re too busy insulting one another now…. here let me act like an 11 year old and roll my eyes at you….

    Haven’t proved it by me…and comments like this just support my original hypothesis about you.

  • sarabei

    Pixie, I agree with you…There is no excuse for murder. I am not expecting this kid to get a pat on his head and a popsicle, but DEATH, really? I think someone else should be done about this. But death is extreme.

    Someone said juvie til adult then prison after. I agree with that….I don’t agree with the death penalty in this case, although I am pro death penalty.

  • Pixie..thanks for the subtle little comments… I think I’m aware they don’t agree with me… their harsh comments about him are no better than my comments about this entire situation….

    Subtle? I thought I was being straight forward.

    They CAN make harsh comments if they want. That’s my point – say your piece and be done with it lady! you don’t have to insult anyone that disagrees with you.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    okay well lavonna was just too stupid for my temper to not come out i suppose…. and I think I just stated earlier that being a parent is the only reason you would have intelligent comments… feel free to let that go now… and that comment toward her didn’t mean what you think it means…she’s calling me a bitch and she has no clue what she’s talking about…i’m anything but…. Yes I know what passive aggressive is…. thanks for insulting my intelligence…now tell me again how you can pass judgement on me… careful pointing a finger when you’re pointing three right back at yourself

  • Abroad

    Pixie, I agree with you…There is no excuse for murder. I am not expecting this kid to get a pat on his head and a popsicle, but DEATH, really? I think someone else should be done about this. But death is extreme.

    I don’t think anybody commenting at any length has so far seriously suggested that the child in question be punished with death. They seem to be split pretty evenly between he should be in juvie and he should be in juvie followed by gaol for a long time/for life.

  • Oh and by the way – there are plenty of true crime sites that will censure out the ugly for you.

  • sarabei

    Nope, I understand that your first comment was not attacking anyone, but they didn’t attack you after you commented in the beginning. It was your second comment that had all the name calling. Which in turn, they called you names too. While, I would not want this child dead, I would want him evaluated for a period of time, therapy if you will while in a juvenile setting, then sent to prison for a while when he becomes of age so that way he knows that he can never do it again or else he will end up in that place again. I do not believe he should get off easily. But hey, if no one agrees with me, then fine, I’m not going to waste my time arguing about people’s intelligence or how they are unhappy just because they disagree with my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions and if you feel like you need to have the upper hand by putting others down, then so be it. It just goes to show how you are not contributing to anything of importance, nor how you feel on the matter.

    Were you the one who came up with the above idea originally?? Whoever did, I thought it was good!!

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Seriously…. this site has turned into a debate about my beliefs and statements…. that’s funny!

  • kellie

    oh don’t pull out that nancy grace bullshit comment. I sure hope you don’t hold her as the standard to which all mothers should aspire.

  • sarabei

    okay well lavonna was just too stupid for my temper to not come out i suppose…. and I think I just stated earlier that being a parent is the only reason you would have intelligent comments… feel free to let that go now… and that comment toward her didn’t mean what you think it means…she’s calling me a bitch and she has no clue what she’s talking about…i’m anything but…. Yes I know what passive aggressive is…. thanks for insulting my intelligence…now tell me again how you can pass judgement on me… careful pointing a finger when you’re pointing three right back at yourself

    OMG…..you are fucking hilarous!! You are welcome!! At least I am not moronic enough to NOT be able to accept other people’s opinions.

  • sarabei

    Seriously…. this site has turned into a debate about my beliefs and statements…. that’s funny!

    OOOH!!! What an ego!! Toots this is ONE thread…hardly the whole site!! LMAO!

  • penelopejo

    Were you the one who came up with the above idea originally?? Whoever did, I thought it was good!!

    I have been marinating for a while regarding this situation and this is the best I could think of that would actually help/scare him into be a good person. I don’t agree he should be killed, but I don’t think they should lock up the key and throw it away.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Coming from you taht means so much to be sarabei…. HA!

  • Special2bme

    “You’re too stupid to get it”

    Speaking of name calling, I believe you called Lavonna ignorant. I believe you owe her an apology. For a mother, after reading your comments I find you an insensitive person.

  • sarabei

    Coming from you taht means so much to be sarabei…. HA!

    I am totally delighted by that! I thought of it especially for YOU……maybe someday you will actually learn something….stranger things HAVE happened.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Have a nice evening stewing over my comments :o)

  • sarabei

    Speaking of name calling, I believe you called Lavonna ignorant. I believe you owe her an apology. For a mother, after reading your comments I find you an insensitive person.

    HEY!! What about me? Apparently I am a moron and a kettle! LMAO!

  • sarabei

    Have a nice evening stewing over my comments :o)

    Meh, you will be forgotten 2 seconds after you quit posting…none of your comments have the staying power you apparently wish they would.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Lavonna called me a bitch = she is an idiot….. but you thinking im insensitive…maybe you should read my comments about this actual story and not the attacks back and forth???

  • penelopejo

    Lavonna called me a bitch = she is an idiot….. but you thinking im insensitive…maybe you should read my comments about this actual story and not the attacks back and forth???

    Your first comment was thrown out the window when you began to state that people were morons and unhappy. Then you expect them not to retaliate. funny stuff, mom. Funny stuff.

  • RunecirE

    RunecirE: Whew, another intelligent adult, WELL SAID!

    Thank you for that, but if my son were the perp. of such a hideous crime, I would want him judged no differently than anyone else. And before anyone says anything (for those who do not know) I DO have a 13yo and an 18yo, both boys. I would want them to be evaluated for mental compitency, and then either punished or treated or both accordingly. I love them dearly, I would give my life for them, but wrong is wrong. I have raised them to believe that no wrong is justifiable or goes unpunished, and I would not be upholding my position as parent or be the person that I am if I did not back that up to the fullest extent. Would it break my heart to watch them be locked away for life…ABSOLUTELY. Would I die each day inside knowing I could never take them fishing or hiking or out to dinner ever again…MORE THAN YOU KNOW. But my pain would NOT dissuade me from what I believe. I am a Libra, what more can I say.

  • sarabei

    Lavonna called me a bitch = she is an idiot….. but you thinking im insensitive…maybe you should read my comments about this actual story and not the attacks back and forth???

    On second thought I have a solution, I actually DO pray you get to mentor this kid….then when he murders you we can put you on the front page.

  • Mom with an 11 YR Old

    Thanks for forgetting me as I will you… this child and the actual topic will however be in my thoughts and prayers…

  • sarabei

    Thank you for that, but if my son were the perp. of such a hideous crime, I would want him judged no differently than anyone else. And before anyone says anything (for those who do not know) I DO have a 13yo and an 18yo, both boys. I would want them to be evaluated for mental compitency, and then either punished or treated or both accordingly. I love them dearly, I would give my life for them, but wrong is wrong. I have raised them to believe that no wrong is justifiable or goes unpunished, and I would not be upholding my position as parent or be the person that I am if I did not back that up to the fullest extent. Would it break my heart to watch them be locked away for life…ABSOLUTELY. Would I die each day inside knowing I could never take them fishing or hiking or out to dinner ever again…MORE THAN YOU KNOW. But my pain would NOT dissuade me from what I believe. I am a Libra, what more can I say.

    ***WELL SAID*** Here Here!!! ***Kudos***

  • sarabei

    Thanks for forgetting me as I will you… this child and the actual topic will however be in my thoughts and prayers…

    Haven’t you left yet to see if you can mentor this child? ***rubs hands gleefully in anticipation***

    And..what was your name again? Oh now I remember….had almost forgotten you there for a minute.

  • Abroad

    Here’s a kid who’s ONLY ever had his dad, and VERY suddenly, his dad’s attention is split between him and three and a half new people.

    Do we know how long Jordan and Chris were alone before Chris got involved again? And I take it that Athena knows something about the bio-mother’s absence that precludes RunecirE’s point D from being an issue?

  • Special2bme

    HEY!! What about me? Apparently I am a moron and a kettle! LMAO!

    Sarabei, Oh I am so sorry! You owe one to Sarabei as well too for especially calling her a moron. Shame on you. LOL

  • Nicely done demons! Trolls never last too long. Maybe that’s why we think we don’t get many. They never get past the FP!

  • Special2bme

    Someone said juvie til adult then prison after. I agree with that….I don’t agree with the death penalty in this case, although I am pro death penalty.

    I say juvi and then when he turns 18 go to prison. But I think to do that he has to be charged has an adult, I believe.

  • Special2bme

    oh don’t pull out that nancy grace bullshit comment. I sure hope you don’t hold her as the standard to which all mothers should aspire.

    LOL

  • I am totally delighted by that! I thought of it especially for YOU……maybe someday you will actually learn something….stranger things HAVE happened.

    Optimist!

  • ecvmanzo

    Damn what just happened? I am sure glad it’s over. Battle of opinions drains me. LOL

  • Special2bme

    Thank you for that, but if my son were the perp. of such a hideous crime, I would want him judged no differently than anyone else.

    I hear ya! It would hurt but you have to do what you have to do.

  • Special2bme

    Lavonna called me a bitch = she is an idiot….. but you thinking im insensitive…maybe you should read my comments about this actual story and not the attacks back and forth???

    LOL got you riled up hmm!

  • Special2bme

    Haven’t you left yet to see if you can mentor this child? ***rubs hands gleefully in anticipation***

    LMAO, I needed this today.

  • RunecirE

    Do we know how long Jordan and Chris were alone before Chris got involved again? And I take it that Athena knows something about the bio-mother’s absence that precludes RunecirE’s point D from being an issue?

    It was purely speculative anyway. I was trying to put a list together that would provide thoughtful discourse, and in any familial unit there are three parts, Father, Mother, and Child. The absence of any one of the three can have significant and lasting effects on the other two, and when one is gone due to ANY kind of traumatic (anything disruptive or destructive) experience, the effects can multiply in magnitude ad infinitum. Coupled with all of this is the mind and spirit of each individual and their ability to deal with said trauma. We are not computers with set perameters and pre-programmed responses.
    No one can possibly know how any other person would respond in any given situation.

  • Abroad

    It was purely speculative anyway. I was trying to put a list together that would provide thoughtful discourse, […]

    It was interesting and it deserves another look. I hope no mother could be that Machiavellian; but that does not mean the world has not seen that sort of poison dripped in a child’s ear.

  • sarabei

    LMAO, I needed this today.

    Hee Hee!

  • Lavonna

    First of all dumbass *grinning* are you to stupid to fucking (oops, potty mouth) read?
    I said I was leaving work.. so no I am NOT to stupid for your temper to not come out bitch, I was driving and then tanning my ass in the tanning bed and before my husband gets home from work and I start cooking I decided to get on here and what the hell do I see? You calling me! Here I am.

    You don’t know me but I am like a bulldog. I let nothing go

    I did have a clue what I was talking about. I seen you running your big fatass piehole calling names to people whose opinions didn’t match yours (how many times do you have to be told?)

    okay well lavonna was just too stupid for my temper to not come out i suppose…. and I think I just stated earlier that being a parent is the only reason you would have intelligent comments… feel free to let that go now… and that comment toward her didn’t mean what you think it means…she’s calling me a bitch and she has no clue what she’s talking about…i’m anything but…. Yes I know what passive aggressive is…. thanks for insulting my intelligence…now tell me again how you can pass judgement on me… careful pointing a finger when you’re pointing three right back at yourself

    Oh and you’re a bitch

  • sarabei

    Oh and you’re a bitch

    Rolling on the floor LMAO!!!

  • Lavonna

    Lavonna called me a bitch = she is an idiot….. but you thinking im insensitive…maybe you should read my comments about this actual story and not the attacks back and forth???

    blah blah blah. I am starting to wonder if you are the “mom”??? If so that is why you are so hellbent *grinning* on educating us on compassion and forgiveness.

  • Lavonna

    Rolling on the floor LMAO!!!

    😀

  • Where did you guys find that fucktard? 🙂

  • Lavonna

    Where did you guys find that fucktard?

    She found us 🙁

  • ecvmanzo

    Oh and you’re a bitch

    I was waiting for you to come back, Lavonna…hehehehe…lmao

  • Lavonna

    I don’t remember reading anything about Jordan’s mother, but I am wondering if she is his mother.

  • She found us

    Aww! I’m just kidding. She even made me crawl out of the innards of DD.

  • Lavonna

    I was waiting for you to come back, Lavonna…hehehehe…lmao

    LOL I’m back but I need to start supper, hubby gets home at 8 and I will be back afterwhile 🙂

  • Lavonna

    Aww! I’m just kidding. She even made me crawl out of the innards of DD.

    LOL

  • sarabei

    Does anyone have any info on the bio mom? I do find it odd that she hasn’t stepped forward??

  • FlamingFox

    Holy shit, Demonites! When I seen 193 comments I knew a troll must of shown up! Great Job!
    I guess you can stick a fork in her, she’s done!

  • RunecirE

    It was interesting and it deserves another look. I hope no mother could be that Machiavellian; but that does not mean the world has not seen that sort of poison dripped in a child’s ear.

    As a foster parent, I have seen this type of mothering before. I think you might be surprised just how catty they can get when someone else (DHS, the other woman) inserts in their lives.

    Does anyone have any info on the bio mom? I do find it odd that she hasn’t stepped forward??

    I’d like to know also. It would help with my perspectives.

  • tutkill

    Will someone please give Mom with a 11 YR old says a gold sticker or something.
    Maybe then she can get over herself with her superior intelligence. ROFL

  • RunecirE

    ***WELL SAID*** Here Here!!! ***Kudos***

    TY sarabei

  • FlamingFox

    Will someone please give Mom with a 11 YR old says a gold sticker or something.Maybe then she can get over herself with her superior intelligence. ROFL

    I’ll ask Morbid to enter her as a candidate for the “Troll of the year” award. Maybe she’ll win, though, I’m afraid to ask what!

  • Athena

    Do we know how long Jordan and Chris were alone before Chris got involved again? And I take it that Athena knows something about the bio-mother’s absence that precludes RunecirE’s point D from being an issue?

    Indeed.

    Jordan’s mother, Mildred Krause, was just four months pregnant with him when she first entered a courtroom to battle his father, Christopher Brown.

    At that time, in March 1997, Krause filed a protection of abuse order against Brown, claiming he drank, did drugs and had threatened to harm her. Apparently unaware Krause was pregnant with his son, Brown was ordered to stay away from her, an order later expunged, according to court records and Brown’s attorney, Dennis Elisco.

    Immediately after Jordan was born on Aug. 30, 1997, Krause contacted Lawrence County Children and Youth Services requesting that they take custody of the child so her mother could adopt him, according to court documents. Not having the father’s consent, the agency declined her request.

    Brown, meanwhile, tipped off by Krause’s grandmother and brother that she was having his baby in secret, filed an emergency petition with the court, opposing the move to have the child put up for adoption and demanding full custody of his son.

    In a back-and-forth battle resolved when Jordan was about 2 months old, a court ruled Krause and Brown would share custody, with the mother getting him four days a week and the father three.

    But on Feb. 5, 1999, with the consent of both parents, Christopher Brown was awarded full custody of his 18-month-old son. Court records don’t indicate why.

    Friends and family say that from February 1999 on, Krause had little contact with her son, entering and exiting his life at will. They say Brown was a good father and spent a lot of quality time with his son.

    The instability that characterized Jordan’s formative years, including the fact he might have felt rejected by his biological mother, could have influenced his later behavior, said Daniel Shaw, chairman of the psychology department at the University of Pittsburgh.

    Source

    This kid was 2 when mom abandoned him, stopping in irregularly and rarely to remind him what he had lost…. worthless bitch.

  • auddie

    I’m all over the map on this one – got a 410 shotgun on my 10th birthday . . . many years of good times. Safe good times. I have an 11 yr old (daughter) who I wouldn’t dream of letting near a gun.

    Dunno.

  • sarabei

    Reckon Bio mom has mental issues that have been passed down?? That would explain some things? Wonder is the child exhibited violent behavior before Chris even met Kenzie?

  • Athena

    Again – just the state of development a child is at would, in an adult, would warrant a diagnosis of mental illness. Kids are impulsive. I don’t have to have one to realize that.

    Everyone is capable of killing. Even if it’s never crossed your mind, you are an animal first and foremost. You ARE capable.

    Luckily, things strike us all differently. When I was a teenager, you could have easily read about me on the front page. When my parents’ alcoholism got bad, I slept with a knife under my pillow. Not because they abused me physically, because they didn’t. I was just waiting for my dad to cross the line. I had identified him as the bad guy (even thought my mother would often provoke things). I had prepared it all in my mind and, when they were fighting, I’d ready that knife and wait for him to come in. Thanks to circumstance, he never did. I was a kid, and I was ready to kill a parent. And this was a man I loved INTENSELY. Today, he and I have the best father-daughter relationship I’ve ever seen. But there was that dark period, and I’ll never forget it.

    The differences? Well, I probably wouldn’t have killed him. I would have stabbed, but even as a large girl, I was much smaller than my dad. He would have undoubtedly over powered me. Had I had a gun at my disposal, my dad might be dead right now. That, and he was the aggressor. That surely would have scored me some sympathy. But, would my family have copped to that? Unlikely. You would have heard the same kind of story you’re hearing about this kid. “She’s a great student. She’s an athlete. She’s never been aggressive to anyone. Her father loved her dearly. She had a good home situation.” But, you know what? Just because it hasn’t caught the attention of the CPS doesn’t mean bad shit isn’t happening. That’s not to say that I’m suggesting abuse happened in this household, but this man knocked up this woman and embraced her whole family without ANY consideration of his son.

    As an adult, I look back on my thinking as a child, and I realize it wasn’t right. Of course it wasn’t right. But I also remember being in it. I remember knowing what it was like – laying in my bed, knife in hand, ready to do something. Did I know dead was dead? Absolutely. Did that matter? Not in the face of a threat. We’re all prepared to kill.

    Luckily, we don’t have the opportunity or the circumstance that would provoke it.

    I’m not saying this child… CHILD… is innocent. He did this, and he has to suffer some consequence. I just don’t think we should be quite so prepared to throw him away. People are not so single-dimensional. It’s not black or white, good or bad, as convenient as that would be. And when we’re dealing with a child, an individual who doesn’t have a full deck of cards, but may very well develop them one day… He deserves the chance to be monitored, to at least see if he comes to realize this tremendous err in judgment.

    It’s so easy to see people as single-faceted, as either good or bad… But I truly, truly believe you all know differently, and are reacting on sheer emotion. Reach back into your histories… Think about when you did or thought about doing awful things. Pixie (I think she’s the one who said this) is right – this kid COULD just be a sociopath. But the statistics relating to kids who commit murder put the odds in his favor, and the human condition puts things in his favor. How horrible would it be if this boy’s soul could be retrieved, and we neglected to even try out of sheer vengence. I’m imploring people to cool down a bit and consider the possibilities.

  • sarabei

    I agree we are all capable, as I said earlier there is SOMETHING that stops us, even you said you probably wouldn’t have tried to kill your father. You are right we all have histories and circumstances from our childhood that shapes us into the people we are today. I think most of us “kids” from difficult backgrounds didn’t think as kids, you included. The difference is none of us KILLED. I don’t know whether this child is a sociopath or not; salvagable or not. I do think his background and hism others mental state should be looked at. He could have serious mental issues that are genetic. I just know I would not be comfortable with him on the streets putting others at risk unless and until there is no doubt he is safe for society. And that would be after he paid for what he did.

  • CassieMomma

    I wouldn’t expect anything less from someone like you. You’re obviously one of those unhappy people, you know the ones that have no forgiveness in their hearts…. Thanks for showing the world your ignorance! I simply said my heart goes out to him, he’s just a child. Yes, he MIGHT have done a terrible thing and I’m not down playing that. UNLESS YOU KNOW ALL THE FACTS… LAY OFF THE ATTACKS OF AN 11 YEAR OLD…. Of course we know better as sane adults than to behave in such a way…children on emotional rollercoasters aren’t as mentally capable.

    Oh man I missed this, darn. I think I was at home being sad and ignorant. Where did that come from???? I never said that Jordan should die I said “lock him up and throw away the key”. Still believe that…..again must be my heart of stone. Not sure what I did to start the name calling, but that’s ok. It actually made my morning. This is my first troll experience on DD. Thanks to all my fellow demonites who stepped in to say something…..my heart is fluttering and my hands are sweaty 🙂 Hee hee.

    Mom of an 11 year old – You are a dumb ass bitch and it’s obvious you are the one that is “unhappy”. Maybe you should get a life. One that is productive and not in a fantasy land!

  • CassieMomma

    Athena – I get where you are coming from and I’m sorry that you had to experience that as a child. I am not even going to pretend that I can understand, but again you did not kill anyone. You never actually followed through. Jordan did and he wasn’t doing it out of protection, she was sleeping. Regardless this situation is horrific and I feel for the family. I can’t even imagine the loss and pain they must be feeling.

  • RunecirE

    Athena, thank you VERY much for presenting the info on the mother. I have not had the time to research her myself. All of it throws some interesting twists into my speculations and opens a whole new spectrum of emotions that Jordan might likely have been experiencing. One that I didn’t put forth earlier:

    E) New flame has trouble relating to and/or building a relationship with Jordan (What was their relationship like? Did she try to create a mutually benefitial relationship with the boy, or did she reject him?) Rejection by the Bio-Mother could have fostered in him the desire for no mother figure at all, i.e. “We did not need one, we do not need one, we will never need one, and she is not one.”

    Athena, I am very sorry to hear of your early years. Your story sounds like so many I have heard from the boys and girls who adopt themselves to me. When they ask “Why is this happenning? Why me?” I say “Everything you are experiencing now will give you the strength and ability to help others like yourself later. Everything happens for a reason, and it is up to us to fiqure out the reasons. Don’t give up.” I am glad your situation has turned out for the better; so many don’t. I hope you are putting your experiences to good use; sounds like you’d be a GREAT mentor for troubled teens.

    CassieMomma, Holy shit, it was a cat fight. I am proud of myself. You know how I love a good scrap, but I stayed focused and on topic this time. LOL.

  • CassieMomma

    CassieMomma, Holy shit, it was a cat fight. I am proud of myself. You know how I love a good scrap, but I stayed focused and on topic this time. LOL.

    Funny!

  • sarabei

    E) New flame has trouble relating to and/or building a relationship with Jordan (What was their relationship like? Did she try to create a mutually benefitial relationship with the boy, or did she reject him?) Rejection by the Bio-Mother could have fostered in him the desire for no mother figure at all, i.e. “We did not need one, we do not need one, we will never need one, and she is not one.”

    From some stuff I have read, didn’t her family say Kenzie tried really hard with Jordan and nothing worked?? Maybe her just didn’t want her or her children there? I hope more info is released in this case!

    ***sits back and cleans claws*** LOL!

  • RunecirE

    Pixie (I think she’s the one who said this) is right – this kid COULD just be a sociopath.

    I said this waaaaaay back in the beginning of this thread. But others have put it forward also. I put it out there as a THEORY, mere speculation. The more details we learn on the home life, the more I lean toward it. I still hold out hope that he can be rehabed. I have a serious, I mean SERIOUS, problem throwing a child away; especially one this age.

  • RunecirE

    From some stuff I have read, didn’t her family say Kenzie tried really hard with Jordan and nothing worked?? Maybe her just didn’t want her or her children there? I hope more info is released in this case!

    And, of course, we know how subjective family opinions can be. “NEVER speak ill of the dead.” Don’t know them or Kenzie, so I’m going to take it all with a grain of salt. Also, maybe she did try, but that does not necessarily mean she did the best job. She was only 26, and may not have had a whole lot of experience dealing with an 11yo boy, especially one with such a rough background. ALL SPECULATIVE.

  • Athena

    Actually, I’m not unhappy about my experience one bit, but thanks for the nice words. I happen to be one of those “adversity builds character” people. Without that experience, my sister and I might not have been as close as we are and my dad and I might not be as close as we are now that I’m an adult. I think that experience did something to galvanize the relationships in my life, contributed to my leadership skills, and it gave me some insight into situations like this, I think.

    People’s brains change DRAMATICALLY from 11 to roughly 25 when they stop developing. It would behoove us to monitor the kid, rather than turn our backs on him.

  • RunecirE

    Actually, I’m not unhappy about my experience one bit, but thanks for the nice words. I happen to be one of those “adversity builds character” people. Without that experience, my sister and I might not have been as close as we are and my dad and I might not be as close as we are now that I’m an adult. I think that experience did something to galvanize the relationships in my life, contributed to my leadership skills, and it gave me some insight into situations like this, I think.

    Awsome, truely awsome, and I am not being sarcastic.

    People’s brains change DRAMATICALLY from 11 to roughly 25 when they stop developing. It would behoove us to monitor the kid, rather than turn our backs on him.

    Totally agree. My concern is someone cutting him slack BECAUSE of his age. That should not happen under any circumstance.

  • sarabei

    And, of course, we know how subjective family opinions can be. “NEVER speak ill of the dead.” Don’t know them or Kenzie, so I’m going to take it all with a grain of salt. Also, maybe she did try, but that does not necessarily mean she did the best job. She was only 26, and may not have had a whole lot of experience dealing with an 11yo boy, especially one with such a rough background. ALL SPECULATIVE.

    That is true, I would really like some more actual facts about his home life.

  • lysaer

    That’s plain fucked up. can you say SOCIOPATH? i cant imagine waking up one day, going ”hmm, i think i’ll murder my step-mom today” and shoot her in the back while she’s asleep. (especially since she’s out the door by 5:00 a.m. at the latest) R.I.P. Mrs. Houk, and best wishes to the surviving members of her immediate family

  • Special2bme

    “PITTSBURGH — A judge's ruling that a 12-year-old boy will be tried as an adult on charges of fatally shooting his father's pregnant fiancee is an unprecedented move, an advocate for defense attorneys says.”
    http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/2130595,boy

  • Thanks for the update, Special.

  • Tonya

    Where is the real mother? And where was the father when this was taking place??? Why was he getting up on his own getting ready for school, no breakfast or have a good day at school.. Maybe the father had something to do with this. Just like Scott Peterson, everyone thought he was a great loving guy and he killed a women with child. It just blows my mind that it was only the little boys. Why was she sleeping. I stay at home with my kids and I'm up everyday making them breakfast and taking them to school with a kiss good bye. And if they got on the bus I would still do the same.. Would not be in bed asleep. I feel the father needs to be questioned more.

  • this little bastard ended up getting his case handled in juvenile court and he gets out he is of age.  hopefully someone shanks him in there or something.