Athena:
A great perspective to add to the debate, Rastaban. Indeed, most people lack an appreciation for mental illness when they haven’t been exposed to it first hand.
Perhaps it would interest people to know that that roughly 20% of people diagnosed with bipolar disorder commit suicide, and that this constitutes the THIRD leading cause of death for individuals between the ages of 15-24. Lithium has been proven to curb the suicide rate associated with the disorder, but is not particularly healthy to take while pregnant, as it can result in cardiac malformations, among other things. Perhaps she came off the drugs because she was pregnant, or was prescribed a level too low to account for the severity of her condition? We don’t know.
But to judge someone suffering from bipolar disorder based on some MySpace pictures is just ignorant.

 She was only 21 when this occured.  She was getting ready to have a baby.  With the stress of pregnancy, fighting with the boyfriend, and bipolar disorder, I’m sure it wasn’t easy.  Jessica was in a coma for several days following her plunge.  She didn’t know her baby was dead for several days following her waking up.  Her hips were crushed, her uterus was exploded, her arm nearly yanked off when she grabbed for the curtains on her way down. Broken legs and ankles.  She instantly went from 21 and about to be a mom to 22 and will NEVER be a mom. I think her behavior has been punished enough. She is devastated that her baby died.

I’m not sure what should be done about the charges but I have sympathy for this girl. It’s not easy being a single mother but what a nightmare it would be to be the bipolar single mother of a probable troubled child. Furthermore, this girl may have been on the downswing of a bipolar episode, which can include suicidal behavior, and I just feel sorry for her, no matter how stupid she is on myspace. When you’re mentally stable, it’s easy to take rational thought for granted. Someone suffering from bipolar disorder doesn’t get to live by the same mental baseline. What is easy for the normal person, is a challenge for the bipolar person. I know a bipolar mother who has a child with problems and the whole thing is a complete mess. It’s a life of misery. It doesn’t excuse the act committed here but on the other hand, if people don’t have a modicum of compassion for the tragedy of that situation, maybe they should be looking in the mirror at their own problems.

agreed

Perhaps it would interest people to know that that roughly 20% of people diagnosed with bipolar disorder commit suicide, and that this constitutes the THIRD leading cause of death for individuals between the ages of 15-24. Lithium has been proven to curb the suicide rate associated with the disorder, but is not particularly healthy to take while pregnant, as it can result in cardiac malformations, among other things. Perhaps she came off the drugs because she was pregnant, or was prescribed a level too low to account for the severity of her condition? We don’t know.

But to judge someone suffering from bipolar disorder based on some MySpace pictures is just ignorant.

It’s more than clear she intended to take her own life and you only get to that point when life is so dismal you can’t stand it one more day. If you’re bipolar, you may be having irrational thoughts. How can anyone assume she could think straight enough NOT to jump?

I had no clue what ‘troll’ meant everywhere I see it on DD until this thread/post here. Now seeing it in context it makes helluva sense and I am so glad to have never been called this.

A troll is someone who posts for the sole purpose of provoking and incensing the locals in order to watch the flames fly and chaos ensue. It’s disruptive behavior that, when successful, renders a thread pointless and time wasting. While people have disagreed, I wouldn’t go so far to call anyone’s post trollish. Trollish would be if I created a new screen name and posted to this thread that anyone who has a myspace as narcassistic and annoying as this chick’s should have a state mandated forced abortion, no matter the date of gestation. And that China’s one child policy is freakin brilliant, we ought to copy it, only enforce it better. See how that would annoy the pro-lifers *and* the personal freedom advocates on here at the very same time? The trick is trying to get said tripe to sound sincere and heartfelt.

actually, up until last night, I thought we all behave very well, even when emotions seemed to be up.

Are you kidding me? LMFWAO.

Jessica Marie Clyburn (Myspace)

Checked out the pics and page…ATTENTION WHORE SHE IS! Omfg. And a psychotic one apparently…too bad the baby died and she survived, should have been the other way around. Karma is a mofo and gonna sting her ass horribly! Fucking cunt. Don’t have the energy to log into MS to attack her YET, oh but I will…

Christ, just because some of us value the woman’s rights above the fetus’s rights when there’s a conflict between the two doesn’t mean fetuses have no value and meaning to us. It doesn’t mean we don’t care about them, and that they don’t have some rights, short of trumping those of the woman carrying them. Typically, we assign them greater value the closer they are to term. However, I’m not willing to classify them with born people for legal purposes, or entertain maternal homicide charges over fetal death for all the reasons that have already been outlined repeatedly by various people. I could see my way into supporting some other charge for her reckless behavior in an aim to compell psychiatric services. But that’s about it.

I agree agree AGREE w/ this statement, well said and BRAVO…except for the part abt jst giving her psych services and a reduced charge. Not sure it should be “murder”, but something for the loss of life…not sure about this.

Who’s arguing it’s accidental? I think the argument is whether it’s homicide. Her intent was to kill herself. Her fetus was necessarily along for the ride. It’s not as if she could put it down. And that’s why none of your examples speak to this situation.

Agree w/ this as well though…

The choice is yours.

Oh wow…DRAMA!

Also, I’d love to hear on what you are basing your contention that “just about anyone” on this thread thinks I’m a “troll.”

I had no clue what ‘troll’ meant everywhere I see it on DD until this thread/post here. Now seeing it in context it makes helluva sense and I am so glad to have never been called this. And I don’t know of any trolls in here…I don’t think I would call someone that if I thought so though? It takes everyone off-topic and creates tension and we lose focus…I don’t know either of this people who are “blog bickering” as I call it, yet I am right in here block quoting their messages and reading all the back & forth! It’s childish. I have felt at time that I was being attacked on some threads, I just state my position w/ what facts or thoughts I have and step away. We are all adults, mostly educated and very dedicated to this site…as much as I would like to tell a few posters on here to fuck off and get off my clit, what can you do?! Just grow up.

Everyone one knows sex CAN lead to pregnancy. At 16yo, even with the use of a condom, my girlfriend got pregnant. I was forced out of her life by her parents, and I had received only one letter from her telling me the baby girl was healthy and they were both doing well.
….THE FORMOST BEING PREGNANCY.

Thank YOU for sharing your personal experience. I would respectfully disagree that the FOREMOST should be AIDS, not pregnancy. THIS is about pregnancy though, so I feel you.

If it means SAVING or PRESERVING the womans life, than the fetus must die. However, if it is a selfish, and in my eyes, an immoral act of the woman that ends the fetus’ life, than she is guilty of murder.

Agreed! Well said…except abt charging her for ‘murder’. Like I said somewhere above, not sure about this one yet. But I don’t think she should be doing a weekend at a psych ward either!

Well, no one has called anyone hysterical yet… That’s usually when I walk away, lol.

LMFWAO, I love you xo

Well, no one has called anyone hysterical yet… That’s usually when I walk away, lol.

actually, up until last night, I thought we all behave very well, even when emotions seemed to be up.

“Worthless contribution” and “troll”….

Well, no one has called anyone hysterical yet… That’s usually when I walk away, lol.

Oh my my… drama drama drama… point is…. she killed her unborn child. Im 8 weeks pregnant and wouldnt concider killing my child. Its called love and dedication to your children!

Bravo! Hope the pregnancy goes well and we all get to see lots of pictures of the beautiful baby. May Mother Venus Bless you with many gifts of love and goodness.

The troll thing is….yet another strawman! Come on…

I, personally, do not label you as a troll, but it is obvious you judge before you know and therefore you arguments are whispers in the wind…IOW meaningless.

And I agree with Athena, I don’t give two shits what a man thinks about the “morality” of abortion, especially when said man completely ignores the man’s role in having the sex that leads to pregnancy and in some cases abortion.

Actually, Veronica, I’m 37 yo and I have abstained from sex for the last 3 YEARS, since the ending of my last relationship, because I don’t believe in casual sex and I intend to set a good example for my two sons. Man is just as important in the COUPLING as the woman, and I FIRMLY believe they are as responsible as the woman when it comes time to have a baby. BUT, this story was not about a man and woman, it was about ONE WOMAN”S decision to throw herself out of a window and thus making the decision for the fetus one whether life would end or continue.

A woman makes a decision to have a baby if she has sex? Are you freaking kidding me? Seems to me you are comfortable setting the rules for women, how convenient that this should all be the responsibility of the female gender.

Everyone one knows sex CAN lead to pregnancy. At 16yo, even with the use of a condom, my girlfriend got pregnant. I was forced out of her life by her parents, and I had received only one letter from her telling me the baby girl was healthy and they were both doing well. Because my parents moved across the country shortly after, I depended letters in order to keep track of them both, but I received only one more later from a mutual friend saying her family moved and she did not know where. SO, in short, I have spent the last 21 years knowing I have a child out there somewhere that I have never seen or talked to. DO NOT PRESUME TO LECTURE ME ON THE RESPONSIBILITY OF MAN AND WOMAN. I have lived it…WHAT ABOUT YOU? I teach all the kids I mentor, both girls and boys, that sex is a MUTUAL experience and one that CAN lead to MUTUAL consequences; THE FORMOST BEING PREGNANCY.

And don’t try to say you only said that because this story is about a woman whose baby died, we’ve already gone way outside those paramaters and you have used some of the same old rhetoric used for years by the religious right. You chose to frame your end of a philosophical discussion about the legal rights of the fetus vs. the mother in a “slutty woman decides to have a baby when the ho spreads her legs” sort of way.

Actually, I never questioned her moralities, nor did I presume to question her state of mind. My arguments were solely based on my belief that the fetus had the right to live and that right was ignored by her selfish decision to attempt suicide. I know Athena’s arguments well. She was taking the stand of LEGAL RIGHTS, saying the fetus had none, and I chose to take the stand that the fetus had MORAL rights. Athena, from all that I have read of her, will not argue from an emotional stance, to her it is purely logical and sterilized legal rethoric. AND THATS OK. I respect that. It is an excellent balance to my emotional and philosophical stance.

AND BTW, before you get too HOLIER THAN THOU about the CHRISTIAN RIGHT, I am PAGAN and believe in the sanctitiy of life above all. PERIOD. If it means SAVING or PRESERVING the womans life, than the fetus must die. However, if it is a selfish, and in my eyes, an immoral act of the woman that ends the fetus’ life, than she is guilty of murder.

Yikes, all apologies (this is why I didn’t respond before now) for the offtopic.
Please do have the last word Veronica, I’m done derailing the topic.

Look, I simply have not attacked anyone, and the example you cite is NOT an example of a personal attack. You SAYING I personally attacked someone doesn’t make it so. You have failed to back up your contention even once. You called me a “troll.” How is that not more of a personal attack than anything I’ve said? You also called my contribution “worthless.” Once again, that is much closer to a personal attack IMO. “Worthless contribution” and “troll”….methinks you should get off your high horse with this “personal attack” line.

It doesn’t even matter, and you’re right that the topic doesn’t need to be derailed anymore.

But it seems to me your real issue is not that I “attack” people who disagree with me, but rather that I had the gall to question you. Doesn’t mean I personally attacked you, a disingenuous claim at best.

BTW, I said it SEEMED that way to me to ME, that is not putting words in someone’s mouth. I didn’t say it was so, I said it seemed that way to me. You SEEM to be grasping at straws, here.