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Muzzammil Hassan is Head-Over-Heels in Love

February 13, 2009 at 11:07 pm by  
hassankz4 Muzzammil Hassan is Head Over Heels in Love

Aasiya and Muzzammil Hasan

Valentine’s day.  Friday the 13th.  I know which one of these scares me more.  So many couples fall apart as this horrid holiday approaches.  Muzzammil Hassan took this quite literally. Due to a threatened divorce from Aasiya, Muzzammil lost his head a bit, and then made sure his wife lost hers all the fucking way.

The irony here is that Muzzammil Hassan started his own TV station in Buffalo, NY five years ago in order to combat the negative image of Muslims in the United States.  I’m thinking that whatever good he did was dented just a tad when he sawed his wife’s head off of her torso.

Aasiya Z. Hassan, age 37, placed an “Order of Protection” against her husband one week ago today, the beginnings of her divorce proceedings.  Obviously this caused the good Muslim Hassan to lose face in the community, so he did what any good reader of the Koran would do after being humiliated by the lesser of the two genders.  He lopped her head off.

Afterward, he calmly strolled into the Orchard Park police station to report her death and possibly to seek his reward or medal for good Muslim behavior.  This is possibly a custom that Hassan should have left in the Middle East if he was concerned about the perception American’s have of his people.  You are not doing your faith any favors, there, buddy.

The murder weapon has not yet been located.  No word on what this will mean for Bridges TV, the television station devoted to cultural togetherness founded by Hassan.  Since one of the founding members is tragically in two large pieces and the other will be spending a few years behind bars, one can only assume that the board and investors will want somebody’s head for this.

To deepen this tragedy, the Hassan’s leave four poor children who are now without a head-of-household.

Thanks to Philly Phan, who got this story rollin’ in the forums.  Thanks for the heads-up, Philly Phan.

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106 Comments

Comments


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  • Lizard

    Fantastic to see you here, swivel. I don’t suppose we could recommend castration as an appropriate consequence for Muzzammil’s actions?

  • http://www.myspace.com/aprilamber April

    Wow. Poor woman.

  • http://www.myspace.com/aprilamber April

    Fantastic to see you here, swivel. I don’t suppose we could recommend castration as an appropriate consequence for Muzzammil’s actions?

    A “head” for a head – So to speak??

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Fantastic to see you here, swivel. I don’t suppose we could recommend castration as an appropriate consequence for Muzzammil’s actions?

    Doesn’t the Koran say a “Head for a Head”?

    Edit: Thanks a LOT, April. ;)

  • http://www.myspace.com/aprilamber April

    Edit: Thanks a LOT, April.

    No… Thank you for the awesome write up.

  • FlamingFox

    Wow! Another decapitation! I feel so bad for their kids!

    Really Gruesome and tragic! I’m sure a lot of eyes instead of heads will roll over this one! Great write up!

  • Uvgottabkiddin

    Thanks to Philly Phan, who got this story rollin’ in the forums.  Thanks for the heads-up, Philly Phan.

    Thanks not right…… lol

  • silvahalo

    Great writeup Swivel.

    Horrific. I’m sure she didn’t see that one coming. Curious what the hell got him so enraged that he took her head off? I mean…HE TOOK HER HEAD OFF…LITERATELY.
    That just blows my mind…oh, no pun intended.

    Rest in peace Asaiya.

  • knotme

    The problem with Muslims today is that they have allowed past cultural acceptances creep back into their daily lives. Men in the East seem to have a problem with the equality Islam actually gives women. In Islam, women are suppose to have rights that protect their position as the “help mate” of men…(i.e. woman is a ‘personal gift’ God created for man to enhance his life.) Woman is not a possession, and if these so-called “good Muslims” practiced Islam instead of their cultural leanings, women would be just as important in society as they deem themselves to be. I’ve found that women in the M.E. are at fault, as well, because they allow (and in many cases, empower) the male sex to dominate the females in the household (even older sisters!). I don’t blame Islam, I blame the LACK of it in the Muslim countries.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    knotme, I would prefer that they throw their ancient tribal books of warfare and hate out the damn window. How can women feel equal when they were a “gift” from Allah to men? It is hard to read this in a progressive light.

    Islam is not a peaceful religion. Mohammad was a warlord, leading his men into constant warfare. The Koran is full of violence, just as the Bible is. Hell, monotheistic religions are violent by default… their initial claim that there is only one god, and it is THEIRS, is a natural affront.

    Chuck all of it out and start again. And this time, don’t mention slavery, and put something in there about dinosaurs, quarks, and the Big Bang.

  • Kdogg

    agree Knot, and many Muslim men who have committed crimes againest their wives seem oturaged that they are even charged with a crime, much less taken to trial. Newsflash, you live in the U.S., you go by OUR laws, regardless of how your culture views it.

  • Lavonna

    RIP Asaiya

  • meow7887

    A few things I would like to point out. Your article contains various flaws. Two lines in particular that I would like to comment on:
    ‘Obviously this caused the good Muslim Hassan to lose face in the community, so he did what any good reader of the Koran would do after being humiliated by the lesser of the two genders. ‘ (para3)

    After 9/11, I was intrigued to learn about the religion that so many people deem to be extremely ‘violent’. As a practicing Christian who has been studying the religion of Islam intensively for over two years now, let me inform you of certain widespread misrepresentations. I have read the Koran cover to cover for my PhD research (no, John Stewart and all those other hosts from late night shows have not, go and ask them). There is NOT ONE (get an authentic translation and check for yourself) instance in the Koran where taking another human beings life – Moslem or non-Moslem, for any motive – is allowed. (I was shocked to discover this myself – after all I had heard on TV about the Koran supporting murder etc I had thought there must be something about it in there, but to be honest with you, there is not even one verse!) Taking away life is, actually, stated to be one of the most deadly sins for which there is no room for forgiveness (and quite obviously no reward). So your statement in para 4 (“possibly to seek his reward or medal for good Muslim behavior”) is entirely flawed as this behavior is in no way considered “good”.

    Moreover, quite contrary to popular belief, women are not considered ‘the lesser of the two genders’. A part of my PhD is on the perception of women in Islam. I have researched this rigorously and have found that women, according to the Koran, have the EXACT same rights as ANY man does. They are allowed to own property, work if they choose to, marry someone of their choosing, have every right to seek a divorce if a relationship comes to that etc. Muslim woman had these rights far far before women in the west did (via the women’s rights movements, suffrage etc). Quite remarkably, actually, the word ‘woman/female’ is mentioned the SAME number of times as the word ‘man/male’. Go read an authentic, unbiased book to find out more about this topic.

    You also write in para 4 that “This is possibly a custom that Hassan should have left in the Middle East if he was concerned about the perception American’s have of his people.” Hassan is NOT from the Middle East. He is an American citizen who moved to the US from Pakistan (which is not in the mid east, vastly different from it in fact –study the world map to find out more).

    A little knowledge is a VERY dangerous thing. I would advise you to get your facts straight before you spread ignorance through such gross inaccuracies.

    May Aasiya’s soul rest in peace.

  • Redshoes

    wow meow7887.
    I feel like I actually learned something from your post. Thank you for taking the time to write all of that out.

    Rest in peace, Asaiya

  • meow7887

    Redshoes – my pleasure.
    I just think that we do not have the luxury of ‘ignorance is bliss’ in the wackjob of a world we have today! The correct knowledge is the only way to create sustainable peace.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    A little knowledge is a VERY dangerous thing. I would advise you to get your facts straight before you spread ignorance through such gross inaccuracies.

    Some excerpts from the Koran, so other people here won’t be wowed by your PhD and think you know what the fuck you are talking about:

    O Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites. Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey’s end. – 9:73

    Fight them until there is no persecution and the religion is God’s entirely. – Sura 2:193 and 8:39

    But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever you find them. – 4:89

    O believers, take not Jews and Christians as friends; they are friends of each other. Those of you who make them his friends is one of them. God does not guide an unjust people. – 5:54

    It is not for any Prophet to have captives until he has made slaughter in the land. – 8:67

    O Prophet! Exhort the believers to fight. If there are 20 steadfast men among you, they shall vanquish 200; and if there are a hundred, they shall rout a thousand unbelievers, for they are devoid of understanding. – 8:65

    Believers! Know that idolators are unclean. – 9:28

    When the sacred months are over, slay the idolaters wherever you find them. Arrest them, besiege them, and lie in ambush everywhere for them. – 9:5

    Allah has cursed the unbelievers and proposed for them a blazing hell. – 33:60

    Muslims are harsh against the unbelievers, merciful to one another. – 48:25

    Prophet! Make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal sternly with them. Hell shall be their home, evil their fate. – 66:9

    The unbelievers among the People of the Book and the pagans shall burn forever in the fire of hell. They are the vilest of all creatures. – 98:51

    You were saying?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    More:

    Fight unbelievers who are near to you. 9:123

    Fighting is obligatory for you, much as you dislike it. – 2:216

    On unbelievers is the curse of Allah. – Sura 2:161

    Those who believe fight in the cause of God, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil. – 4:76

    I could forgive your ignorance if you weren’t also making an appeal to authority, which is a logical fallacy, and committing the sin of hypocrisy, by claiming the danger of a little knowledge and displaying your own surfeit.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    The Koran on women:

    “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance):… ”
    The Book of Women 4.34

    “As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify (to the truth of the allegation) then confine them to the houses until death take them or (until) Allah appoint for them a way (through new legislation).”
    The Book of Women 4:15

    This last is the justification that Muslim men, like Hasan, use for honor killings. You can find a few passages that give lip-service to equality, but the problem with divinely-inspired books is that EVERY passage is the direct word of god. So, killing flirty girls is obviously His will.

    This is disgusting shit, and all the PC nonsense about Islam being “peaceful” is just Christians being ashamed of a close cousin.

  • meow7887

    @swivel:
    First of all, with a dense book like the Koran you cannot just quote verses out of context with no understanding of the time period, or circumstances the verse was revealed in.
    Secondly, where exactly are you getting these (what you claim to be) ‘verses’? Some online site, some where? Written by someone just as biased as you, who has made the same mistake as you have by pulling quotes out, blindly ignoring their context, just as a means to justify the notions of Islam in his/her mind.

    I have an authentic copy of the Koran on hand, that contains commentary on every verse, detailing intricacies and in-depth inference from scholarly individuals who are far learned in this matter than you are (or perhaps ever will be considering your current attitude). I have not been able to find one ‘verse’ that you have listed on here.

    Now you can go on and be arrogant and say that I need to check my copy and its probably a spoof or something and yet again, claim that, I “do not know what the f i am talking about” – but let me simply ask you this: how many years have you studied – actually STUDIED books from learned people, scholars, the intellectual community – Islam? How many years have you done an unbiased and in-depth analysis of this religion and its followers? Have you actually READ for yourself an authentic hard copy of the Koran that you so proudly quote from? I would not like to make any judgements, but in the case you have not, I would say you would be the one who ‘does not know what you are talking about’.

    Like I said, get your facts straight. And get them from an authentic/renown book.

  • mesmerize

    Disgusting.

    Those poor children will have to live with the knowledge that their father murdered their mother for the rest of their lives.

  • momofkidscatsdogs

    I have never commented before but this story is down the street from where i work, and with the plane crah here this week, i didnt even know until i read it here!
    We are also so very close to Niagara Falls where this year already there has been 2 (i think maybe 3) DV related homicides. Scary part is there was only 3 homicides in all of 2008 in NF.
    I just cant even imagine loving someone and then killing them :(

  • HotReadingMama

    Chuck all of it out and start again. And this time, don’t mention slavery, and put something in there about dinosaurs, quarks, and the Big Bang.

    :) What a wonderful world it would be…

  • DamagedGoods

    gah… another decapitation… feck

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    @swivel:
    First of all, with a dense book like the Koran you cannot just quote verses out of context with no understanding of the time period, or circumstances the verse was revealed in.
    Secondly, where exactly are you getting these (what you claim to be) ‘verses’? Some online site, some where? Written by someone just as biased as you, who has made the same mistake as you have by pulling quotes out, blindly ignoring their context, just as a means to justify the notions of Islam in his/her mind.

    Look them up and tell me which ones are poorly translated.

    The Koran clearly condones SLAVERY, SPOUSAL BATTERY, MURDER, and WAR. You can play the “selective quoting” routine all you like, but it creates the following problem: If we are ethical enough to recognize evil from good in the Koran, then why the fuck do we need it or the Bible to tell us right from wrong?

    Both books are morally defunct. And moderates like yourself, who cover up the horrid truth, give power to the extremists to lurk in your wake, lopping the heads off of lovers.

    I hope you are proud of yourself for defending a book that treats women like property, tells you to kill the harlots, to make war on unbelievers, etc… I have given you hard information to work with–and all you have given me is politically correct bullshit, your misguided opinions, and vile support of a loathsome tome.

    My job is to shame you until you start behaving ethically. What I will NOT stand is you coming here and forgiving the religion that resulted in the MURDER of this poor woman. It is no better than tithing to the Catholic church of molestation.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    More fun:

    Those who deny Muhammad’s revelations will be destroyed. 25:36

    Those who cry out to another god with Allah will be tormented doubly in hell. 25:68-69

    Those who believe in another god are doomed. 26:213

    “Allah destroyed them and their people, every one.” 27:51

    Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 32:20

    The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 32:22

    Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61

    Those who strive against Allah’s revelations will be brought to the doom. 34:38

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    For anyone who wants to read for themselves, there are many versions of the Koran on the web. Here is one: http://quod.lib.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

    Go to book 25 (they are arranged by size, rather than order, authorship, etc…) Book 25 is known as “Distinction”.

    There you will find the following verses. And all the others that I have listed. This is a BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT, BULLSHIT religion of evil, bile, gore, misogyny, slavery, and ill-temperament. A pox on all those who buy into this nonsense, which can take a good man and have him BELIEVE that the right thing to do is to behead his wife!

    [25.36] Then We said: Go you both to the people who rejected Our communications; so We destroyed them with utter destruction.
    [25.37] And the people of Nuh, when they rejected the apostles, We drowned them, and made them a sign for men, and We have prepared a painful punishment for the unjust;

  • meow7887

    My job is to shame you until you start behaving ethically. What I will NOT stand is you coming here and forgiving the religion that resulted in the MURDER of this poor woman. It is no better than tithing to the Catholic church of molestation.

    ‘The religion that resulted in the murder of this poor woman’?!! Do you personally know Mr. Hassan, swivel? Do you know whether he even believed in the tenets of the Islamic faith? or any other faith, for that matter? Or are you a cop involved in the investigation of this case? You claim in your first post of Hassan being a ‘good muslim’ etc. Do you have ANY evidence whatsoever to back this? He could be a Muslim simply by name, some one completely illiterate about the religion, with no idea of the enormity of a sin like murder.

    This terribly tragic murder is in NO way connected to religion. To me it seems to be a personal, family issue where a wacko psychopath goes berserk. (I dont see people connecting non-Muslim cases of a similar kind -divorce related murder – to religion) So don’t go connecting it with religion with ABSOLUTELY no true knowledge of the logistics of this case.

    You continue to make silly accusations and generalizations and continue to hold staunchly to your preconceived notions without doing any background study of the things you talk about. “My job is to shame you until you start behaving ethically.” What makes you think I do not behave ethically? You do not even know me! Yet another one of your ignorant baseless generalizations.

    Shame on YOU, swivel.

    Shame on you – It is people like you – irrespective of religion – who preach (and live off of) misunderstanding between communities and blind hatred who have brought the world to the mess it is in right now.

    This is all I have to say in this regard. No point trying to argue with someone who can’t even, for a moment, remove the blinders/blinkers from the sides of his/her eyes.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    BTW, this article is filed under the category Honor Killing for a reason. Also, notice anything similar with the stories? In regards to the gender of the victims and the accused? The relationship between them? The religion? The motive?

  • dammitall

    Aasiya Z. Hassan, age 37, placed an “Order of Protection” against her husband one week ago today, the beginnings of her divorce proceedings. Obviously this caused the good Muslim Hassan to lose face in the community, so he did what any good reader of the Koran would do after being humiliated by the lesser of the two genders. He lopped her head off.

    Folks need to back up their “Order(s) of Protection” with a good handgun. All an Order of Protection does is create a paper trail for when it’s violated, and it usually will be. If you’re that worried about the motherfucker, pack heat.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Shame on you – It is people like you – irrespective of religion – who preach (and live off of) misunderstanding between communities and blind hatred who have brought the world to the mess it is in right now.

    The world keeps getting better the more secular it becomes. We live in the most peaceful times in human history. The chances of being murdered by a fellow man are the lowest right now that they have EVER been. This is statistical fact. So, since we can plot the rise of safety with the decline of religion, there seems to be only two conclusions: 1. Coincidence. 2. Causation.

    Islam is currently going through the same struggles with modernity that Christianity went through hundreds of years ago. You seem content to applaud a growth stage of slavery, misogyny, and murder. I want religion to become an adult. Grow old, and then die a very painful death.

    The fact that your inclusiveness embraces murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-owners, witch burners, and crusaders is NOT the kind of diversity that I want to be a part of. You are seriously misguided, and I believe you flat out lied when you said you have studied the Koran. What does the Bible and the Koran have to say about liars?

    *throws a stone*

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Here is more of the bullshit you celebrate:

    Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 34:51-52

    Evil. Evil. Evil. Shame on you.

  • tutkill

    BTW, this article is filed under the category Honor Killing for a reason. Also, notice anything similar with the stories? In regards to the gender of the victims and the accused? The relationship between them? The religion? The motive?

    Actions speak louder than words

    this action sure looks like a honor killing

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    More:

    4:89 They long that ye should disbelieve even as they disbelieve, that ye may be upon a level (with them). So choose not friends from them till they forsake their homes in the way of Allah; if they turn back (to enmity) then take them and kill them wherever ye find them, and choose no friend nor helper from among them,

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    this action sure looks like a honor killing

    It was. And if Islam was DEAD, Aasiya would be ALIVE.

  • Deety

    The fact that your inclusiveness embraces murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-owners, witch burners, and crusaders is NOT the kind of diversity that I want to be a part of.

    Wow, I must have missed the post where Meow said pedos were a-okay.

    I have so many issues with this I don’t even know where to start. But first some background: I am agnostic, and I despise organized religion. I think the vast majority of “religious leaders” are full of shit, and have no place to tell anyone else what “God” wants of them. My husband, however, is Muslim. Not a devout Muslim, but he is from a conservative middle-eastern country, and did not come to the States until he was 25. So, of course, culturally he is very much a Muslim.

    #1, Swivel, is your assumption that because this man was Muslim and brown, that he was from the middle east. Your ignorance is really showing here. The cultural differences between countries within the middle east are huge, much less the differences betwwen the middle east and Pakistan. They don’t even speak the same language! That’s like saying someone is French, because they’re white and Christian.

    #2 is the assumpion that this is an honor killing. It sounds more to me like your typical divorce-murder, although the method is decidedly not from American culture. But when a white man is on here for the same reason, it would never occur to anyone to call it an honor kiling. What Muzzammil Hassan did was not the same as killing one’s daughter for behavior you disapprove of. I am appalled that he is being judged more by his religion than his actions.

    #3 is the fact that you are SO quick to paint all Muslims with the same brush. You assume that all Muslims view women in a certain way, when I know from personal experience that for a great many of them, their wives are viewed with the utmost respect. Yes, women are set apart, but many of them are set apart on a pedestal. My husband and his friends consistently think of their wives before themselves, always making sure we are comfortable, that we have had enough to eat. Next to their children, their wives are the most important thing in their world, and that is displayed in their actions. Family is extremely important in their culture.

    Before you judge an entire religion (and culture, as I’m not sure you understand the difference), I have an idea. Go meet some Muslims. Talk to them. Ask them questions about what they believe, what they think of situations like this. I’m willing to bet a large number of them are just as appalled by this as we are. The Bible is full of horrible things too, but I don’t assume that every Christian I meet thinks slavery, misogyny, and stoning people to death are acceptable. I think most Muslims, like most Christians, ignore the parts in their book that they don’t think are right. Although, most of both groups have never even read the whole book. But just because I think their faith means they’re gullible doesn’t mean I think they literally believe that the worst parts of their books are the parts that should be followed.

    And for the record, when I recently asked my husband if men beat their wives in his country, he was shocked. He said it’s considered shameful to even raise your voice to your wife, but if a man does beat his wife, she will tell her family and they will beat him up.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    I would agree with you if the dude hid the body and tried to act a tad ashamed of what he did.

    But he STROLLED into the police station, conforming with the laws of man with the lack of embarrassment attained by knowing you are right with Allah.

    I’m not racist. I want an end to borders and unlimited immigration. I just don’t respect religions that foster pedophiles (Catholicism) and Matricide (Islam).

    Forgive me for being as ethically rigid as these farces pretend to be.

    I don’t have to ask Muslims what they think of this, because people lie. All I have to do is watch the TV on September 12th, 2001 and note the parades of flag-burners and people hitting America with their shoes, and the utter silence from the Muslims who were outraged. I trust peoples actions, not their words. This dude was a hypocrite. Founding a TV station to heal wounds and then slicing his wife’s neck off. And the reason your husband and his friends are paying you so much attention might be a cause for concern…

  • mjkforever

    Just so that I can understand, if a Christian man kills and decapitates his Christian wife because she sought a divorce, it would not be classified as an “honor killing”?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    #1, Swivel, is your assumption that because this man was Muslim and brown, that he was from the middle east. Your ignorance is really showing here.

    Muzzammil Hassan came to America from Pakistan 25 years ago.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    Just so that I can understand, if a Christian man kills and decapitates his Christian wife because she sought a divorce, it would not be classified as an “honor killing”?

    Unless the guy specifically stated that was why he killed her, no. But do a quick search on “honor killing” and you will see why this story is classified as such, even if it was not. No different to why we will place a child abuse story in both the Child Abuse category as well as the Infanticide category…even if the child does not die. If it looks like a duck and all that.

  • dammitall

    It was. And if Islam was DEAD, Aasiya would be ALIVE.

    Not necessarily. There are plenty of whackjobs who kill their wives if they try to leave them.

  • Deety

    I’m not racist. I want an end to borders and unlimited immigration. I just don’t respect religions that foster pedophiles (Catholicism) and Matricide (Islam).

    So, all Catholics are pedos?

    I don’t have to ask Muslims what they think of this, because people lie. All I have to do is watch the TV on September 12th, 2001 and note the parades of flag-burners and people hitting America with their shoes, and the utter silence from the Muslims who were outraged.

    I fail to see the connection between Sept. 11th and this guy beheading his wife. Why are you trying to throw a red herring into this?

    And the reason your husband and his friends are paying you so much attention might be a cause for concern…

    Yes, my husband is attentive and thoughtful, as are his friends to their wives. I worry about that constantly. He probably only makes sure I eat well because he’s fattening me up for some Muslim cannibalistic ritual. They do that, right? I’m sure one Muslim did one time, so now we can just assume they all do.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    So, all Catholics are pedos?

    Nope. But all Catholics pay men to fondle their children.

    I guess you are done arguing that Islam is about peace? You ever figure out how to look up passages in your Koran?

    Now your argument is that this guy wasn’t a Muslim, just a coincidental psycho acting like a Muslim?

    I can’t tell if you are shrinking or just back-peddling. Stop sticking up for these madmen. You are putting money in their collection plates.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    So, all Catholics are pedos?

    No, but the church foster and hides pedophiles. I don’t see where he stated all Catholics are pedophiles.

    I fail to see the connection between Sept. 11th and this guy beheading his wife. Why are you trying to throw a red herring into this?

    I am reminded of a Reno 911 show in which the city of Reno misprinted some lottery tickets, issuing out thousands of winning lottery tickets. In the episode, the cops of Reno are in their briefing room, and one by one, each character would show up to the meeting wearing fancy clothes and proceed to tell the rest of their co-workers to “Suck their dicks” and to “fuck off” that they had just won the lottery. When they were informed that there had been a mistake…they would simply sit down beside their co-workers and watch as the next one came in doing the same thing.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    The reason we don’t lynch blacks as often these days is because our social pressures and influences on one another do not promote it the way they used to.

    Thinking that these honor killings would take place without the religion telling men that it is their DUTY to perform them is insanity. Yes, jealous men would still kill their wives. But, just as we see in non-Muslim societies, the men would feel shame and guilt for doing this. They would not do it with pride.

    And the difference between pride and shame is the difference between hundreds of these women living or dying. It would take an unbelievable amount of bias to not see and understand this. The sort of bias one would have if they were married to a Muslim man that they loved very much and owned a Koran but never peeked inside?

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    Damn it. I wrote a long ass post and it vanished. Maybe grabbed for spam-though I only linked within DD. In any case, the long and short of it is that I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Some of the statements made here are the American version of the propaganda spewed *about* us by terrorist organizations such as Al Quaida. You are seriously no different than the terrorists you rail against when you denounce an entire segment of people based solely on their religion, race, or nationality. Intellectual violence is only marginally better than physical violence, and both contribute equally to the fact that there are these tensions in the first place.

    As an aside, thank goodness most people don’t assume I am an uneducated, unemployed, single welfare mom to seven because I am Hispanic. Thank goodness people don’t blame every mistake I make on my race or religion. I’d much rather be responsible for my actions rather than have people assume that I am a product of my religion or race-which is a tiny part of what makes me who I am. Even the missteps I make are MINE, not the Puerto Rican heritage in my blood, or the Christian upbringing I received.

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    I don’t have to ask Muslims what they think of this, because people lie. All I have to do is watch the TV on September 12th, 2001 and note the parades of flag-burners and people hitting America with their shoes, and the utter silence from the Muslims who were outraged. I trust peoples actions, not their words. This dude was a hypocrite. Founding a TV station to heal wounds and then slicing his wife’s neck off. And the reason your husband and his friends are paying you so much attention might be a cause for concern…

    Yeah, because the media always shows a balanced picture. They never forgo the less sensational perspectives for a more shocking, riveting presentation. /sarcasm

  • Zibarro

    Wow – Hot Topic!

    Meow:

    You said this:

    I have read the Koran cover to cover for my PhD research (no, John Stewart and all those other hosts from late night shows have not, go and ask them). There is NOT ONE (get an authentic translation and check for yourself) instance in the Koran where taking another human beings life – Moslem or non-Moslem, for any motive – is allowed. (I was shocked to discover this myself – after all I had heard on TV about the Koran supporting murder etc I had thought there must be something about it in there, but to be honest with you, there is not even one verse!) .

    Then Swivel countered with verse after verse – and you came back with this:

    @swivel:
    First of all, with a dense book like the Koran you cannot just quote verses out of context with no understanding of the time period, or circumstances the verse was revealed in.
    Secondly, where exactly are you getting these (what you claim to be) ‘verses’? Some online site, some where? Written by someone just as biased as you, who has made the same mistake as you have by pulling quotes out, blindly ignoring their context, just as a means to justify the notions of Islam in his/her mind.

    You can’t have it both ways. Regardless of “which version” or “which interpretation” it’s gleaned from – if it’s there – it’s there. Just as the Christian bible is interpreted/mis-interpreted in many ways – depending on which religion is doing the interpretation – so can the Koran be.
    But you claim first that no way, no how would Swivel find those things in the Koran – you never specified that “some” interpretations might allude to those things. That is, not until Swivel called you out on it. Then you started back peddling. If you’d done so much research, you would have known that these verses DO exist out there. You kinda discredited yourself there.

    I have an authentic copy of the Koran on hand, that contains commentary on every verse, detailing intricacies and in-depth inference from scholarly individuals who are far learned in this matter than you are (or perhaps ever will be considering your current attitude). I have not been able to find one ‘verse’ that you have listed on here.

    Ummm… sounds like you are not looking in the right place, then. You’re a bit too eager to believe “all is well” and that is clouding your judgment here. Open your mind a bit. Swivel isn’t saying YOUR Koran doesn’t exist – he’s just saying it isn’t the ONLY one version/interpretation out there. Why can’t you agree with that much? And therefore agree that there are some zealots that would use Swivel’s version to justify their heinous actions?

    For WHATEVER reason this woman died – it’s a horrible way to go.

    I’m just curious – why was she there if there was a restraining order? If that is his company, she had to know he’d likely be there as well. Were they alone? Sounds like she was a bit naive. That really sucks. RIP.

  • dammitall

    Thinking that these honor killings would take place without the religion telling men that it is their DUTY to perform them is insanity. Yes, jealous men would still kill their wives. But, just as we see in non-Muslim societies, the men would feel shame and guilt for doing this. They would not do it with pride.

    Are they ashamed? It strikes me that not all that many wife-killers seem particularly remorseful. “She made me do it” is not remorse. They’re sorry they got caught, they’re sorry the law is so twisted that they have to do time for killing their own “property”, but ashamed? Not that I’ve noticed.

  • katyk

    This is tragic.

    I’m sorry, but a man chopping his estranged wife’s head off and then “strolling” into the police station (which is such a subjective word — do we know he really strolled? Like whistling a tune covered in blood? Or did he just go turn himself in?) shows that he is extremely mentally ill…and nothing more in my opinion.

    Yes, Pakistan is a southern Asian country, not in the Middle East, but that mistake is common and not that big of a deal. But I think blaming the religion, especially from someone who’s lived in the US for a quarter of a century and from what I can see is pretty Americanized, is just sensationalism.

    We don’t know what was going through his sick mind. It could have been verses from the Koran, it could have been evil elves telling him to murder. We just shouldn’t assume. You say he wasn’t doing his religion favors by doing this, but honestly, had you NOT said that, it probably wouldn’t have crossed my mind. I would have just thought this dude was fucked up. Like that guy at VT a few weeks ago.

    All I do know is this story is incredibly sad and tragic and I hope their children and families can find peace in this whole mess.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    I am ashamed to be a part of this community right now. Some of the statements made here are the American version of the propaganda spewed *about* us by terrorist organizations such as Al Quaida. You are seriously no different than the terrorists you rail against when you denounce an entire segment of people based solely on their religion, race, or nationality.

    You are correct. I am no different from the terrorists. They hate all capitalists for wanting to make a profit, and for lusting after women. They lump us all together and hate us equally.

    I hate all Muslims and Christians for looking to old, dusty, hate-filled books for ethical guidance. I hate the racism in Christianity today, the anti-Hispanic bent that is outright racism. I hate the homophobia and poor treatment of gays. I hate the strength that moderate Muslims give to the extremists. The mosques where they teach kids to hate us. Where they teach boys to look down on girls. Where they teach one sect to hate another. Yes, I lump all these people together. Because history is littered with the bodies that well-meaning people have slaughtered in the name of their God.

    The question is, since both of us (terrorists and myself) are hating a group of people with many similarities… what is the difference between us? How can I be distinguished from a terrorist?

    Oh… because of what we are railing against. They are against profits and equal rights for women. I am against matricide, rape, pedophilia, and homophobia. Some of you are defending the book that drives people to lop off their wife’s head, I am defending the poor woman who probably knew she was in danger the moment she decided to file for a divorce.

    Yeah… I am just like the terrorists. What a wonderful way to move this conversation forward. Sink to the lowest personal attack possible and lump in a lover of freedom with those that rail against it. Nice one.

  • NJLiLi

    LOL. Oh My. When saw the title of the article, the pic, the BYLINE and the number of posted comments, I knew that this was gonna be a HOTTT one.

    DD never fails to entertain me!

  • Deety

    Aasiya Z. Hassan, age 37, placed an “Order of Protection” against her husband one week ago today, the beginnings of her divorce proceedings.  Obviously this caused the good Muslim Hassan to lose face in the community, so he did what any good reader of the Koran would do after being humiliated by the lesser of the two genders.  He lopped her head off.

    This is probably the part that bothers me the most- it’s obvious here you feel he did this BECAUSE he’s Muslim, not because he’s loony. Sure, people use their religion all the time to justify all kinds of horrible things, but that doesn’t make those things the fault of the religion. Religion is bad, but that doesn’t make all religious people bad.

    So I had my husband read the article, and asked what he thought. He said “He cut her HEAD off? That’s fucking crazy!” He feels incredibly sorry for the kids, and thinks this guy is really stupid. Why would you kill her? Just get a divorce! When I pointed out people thought the guy killed her because he’s Muslim, he said “But people do that here too!” Yes, yes they do.

    I still want to know, Swivel, what cause for concern do I have because of my husband’s attention?

  • absinthe

    All I know is that MEN are fucked up, cause they’re the ones who do this shit the world over.

    (P.S. Bravo, KatyK, for the most reasoned post I’ve read on the topic. And kudos to Swivel too, for making us all think on this dismal V day).

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel
  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    All I know is that MEN are fucked up, cause they’re the ones who do this shit the world over.

    Ain’t that the truth!

    The question is, do we limit the damage they do by making our social rules lean anti-beheading, or do we defend the religions that promote this behavior?

    Deety seems to think we do the latter. I’m thinking the former is probably a better idea.

    Also, for the record, Muslims are not one race. A Muslim is anyone who follows Islam. I hate to be called racist by a moron with a PhD who doesn’t understand that I am anti-discriminatory. I hate white Muslims, black Muslims, yellow Muslims. Hell, to tell you the truth, I don’t even see the color of the person… I just see the Koran and know that they deserve my ire.

    Shuck off that superstition, you dolts. That shit was made up back when slavery was kosher and we stoned children for not minding their manners.

  • Dakota Valkyrie

    First of all, with a dense book like the Koran you cannot just quote verses out of context with no understanding of the time period, or circumstances the verse was revealed in.

    Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61

    I’m still trying to figure out how that line (and others) can be taken out of context.

    What the heck would understanding a time period have to do with it? Do they re-write the Koran every so often to keep up with the times? Is it sort of like an upgrade from Microsoft?

    Under what circumstances would that verse reveal itself as meaning something other than what it says? None of them have alternate meanings that would turn it into Thou shalt not murder or Stop and smell the roses or anything short of “DIE nonbeliever DIE”.

  • mjkforever

    This story and the resulting comments have stuck with me throughout the day. Enough to engage the good old search engines and edu-ma-cate myself a bit. But everything I’ve read specifically says that the Koran DOES NOT condone nor glorify honor killings.

    (excerpt from one of the many websites I’ve read today)

    “Nowhere in the Koran or Hadith (biographies of Muhammed) will you find scripture or text that legitimizes honor killing. In fact, it is forbidden. Married women who commit adultery are to be stoned to death according to Islamic law. But they must be judged by a religious court that requires testimony from four male witnesses to insure a conviction.”

    Until I hear or read that  Muzzammil Hassan specifically names honor as a motive for murdering and decapitating his wife, I’m gonna treat him like any other psycho nutjob whackadoodle – black, white, or purple-pinstriped – and keep religion out of it.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    “Nowhere in the Koran or Hadith (biographies of Muhammed) will you find scripture or text that legitimizes honor killing. In fact, it is forbidden. Married women who commit adultery are to be stoned to death according to Islamic law. But they must be judged by a religious court that requires testimony from four male witnesses to insure a conviction.”

    Well, fuck. A knife is more humane than an old-fashioned stoning. I guess Islam IS making progress!

  • http://www.myspace.com/aurniastar my_2_Cents

    Until I hear or read that Muzzammil Hassan specifically names honor as a motive for murdering and decapitating his wife, I’m gonna treat him like any other psycho nutjob whackadoodle – black, white, or purple-pinstriped – and keep religion out of it.

    I loved that~ :-)

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com Morbid

    This story and the resulting comments have stuck with me throughout the day. Enough to engage the good old search engines and edu-ma-cate myself a bit. But everything I’ve read specifically says that the Koran DOES NOT condone nor glorify honor killings.

    Wait a minute…so out of all the research you have done on the Internet, your rebuttal to swivel’s statements are that they don’t condone honor killing, bur rather the males get together and stone the woman to death?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Wait a minute…so out of all the research you have done on the Internet, your rebuttal to swivel’s statements are that they don’t condone honor killing, bur rather the males get together and stone the woman to death?

    No, he/she just took the second link you get from a google search of “koran honor killings”. Here is the fourth one:

    http://islam-watch.org/SyedKamranMirza/honor_killing.htm

    Get this: The four witnesses can be the SAME PERSON!

    Quote:

    *********************************
    Sahi Bukhari: 8:6814:
    Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah al-Ansari: “A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse; and he bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Messenger ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married person.”
    *********************************

    Edit: Honest Muslims ADMIT that they and their peers see these killings as the honorable thing to do: http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/honor_killings.htm

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Every one of you should read the following. You will start to see how rotten to the core this religion is:

    http://www.sullivan-county.com/id4/cul_death.htm

  • petrina

    right now i kinda feel like Asaiya spent her life living in the shadow of her husband and now she is doing the same in this thread. i wish we could all take a min to stop with the arguing and remember her and say sorry for your shitty deal.

  • dammitall

    right now i kinda feel like Asaiya spent her life living in the shadow of her husband and now she is doing the same in this thread. i wish we could all take a min to stop with the arguing and remember her and say sorry for your shitty deal.

    I heartily wish she’d known enough to arm herself so she could surprise the fucker. She might have to do a little time, but at least her kids would have a sane parent to end up with eventually. All women should own guns. Seriously. They’re the great equalizer.

  • malq

    Sadly enough the Koran does need an update. It may have worked fine thousands of years ago when they didn’t have forums to debate barbaric acts, like stoning. I have read most of it and found it repetative. The phrase ‘God is great’ dominates all interesting topic. I have no memory of honor killings written within although I could be wrong, The kids are the ones that will take the brunt of all this.Thats a bummer. At least the guy can’t say his wife never gave him head.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    right now i kinda feel like Asaiya spent her life living in the shadow of her husband and now she is doing the same in this thread. i wish we could all take a min to stop with the arguing and remember her and say sorry for your shitty deal.

    Excellent post. I am extremely sorry for her shitty deal. My entire rant centers around this, and spreads out to consider the billion other women who have the same shitty deal.

    I’m sure Aasiya would love a moment of silence from us… followed by a year of loud outrage that used her tragic end to inspire a new beginning. How great would it be if the last spark of her life lit a fire that burned down a house of female oppression? Then she could have died for more than our sympathy.

    Unfortunately, those of us trying to light that fire are attacked as racists and bigots. For trying to bring about equality. And PC elitists who can’t do their homework are pissing on the small flames we ignite.

  • popeyeray

    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    They have many confusing and mystifying rules in the Koran that I don’t understand. So for a man to kill his wife like this is unheard of in our Christian Bible, but take an excerpt from the Koran like this one:
    “As for oral sex, it is only permitted as a way of stimulation and foreplay. Scholars say that it is Makrooh to do it with the intention of ejaculating in wife’s mouth. This is based on the jurists’ views regarding the impurity of sperm and Madhy. Anyway, if a husband does have oral sex with his wife, and ejaculates sperm, then Ghusl is obligatory; however, if he only releases Madhy then Wudu’ is only required, and the wife has to wash the Madhy away because it is Najis.”
    It is confusing, what the hell is Makrooh, Madhy, Ghusl, Wudu, or Najis for that matter!? Until we learn what these things are we’ll never really understand what drives these people to do the things they do.

  • mjkforever

    Wait a minute…so out of all the research you have done on the Internet, your rebuttal to swivel’s statements are that they don’t condone honor killing, bur rather the males get together and stone the woman to death?

    First of all – swoons that Morbid even looked in my direction!!

    I didn’t consider my comment to be a rebuttal, just a comment. I’m certainly not about to argue with Swivel, or anyone who is determined to blame this on the Koran. What I see as a concerned citizen and loyal member of DD is another lunatic who killed his spouse. I don’t see religion as a motive and I did what is always suggested here when someone comes to the table admittedly ignorant – I read up. Yes, I quoted the 2nd link provided when doing a Google search, but only because 1) it said what I wanted to say succinctly and 2) I was not about to clog the thread with quote after quote after quote.

    So yes, the Koran says that stoning a wife is “permissible” but that is kinda my whole point. We’re not reading here that Muzzammil Hassan stoned his wife to death. That would be obvious in keeping with his religion. What we’ve read as the main headline would not automatically qualify as an honor killing based on what I’ve read. That’s all I’m saying.

    I read DD for accuracy and this is just a point that is stuck with me, blaming it on religion is just not accurate at this point. Not until the dude confesses specifically to that motive.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    I read DD for accuracy and this is just a point that is stuck with me, blaming it on religion is just not accurate at this point. Not until the dude confesses specifically to that motive.

    We are trying to make up for the blatant honor killings in which no media outlet will even mention the words “Islam” or “Muslim”.

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2008/07/08/chgo-tribs-honor-killing-report-omits-islam-connection

    It all cancels out in the end.

  • http://www.myspace.com/titicarie philly_phan

    Every one of you should read the following. You will start to see how rotten to the core this religion is:

    Or ANY religion for that matter. I am gonna catch hell for that comment and I don’t plan to elaborate too much…but my personal thought, feeling and belief is this: religion is manmade. to explain the unexplainable. to provide comfort. to give followers hope. to CONTROL people. Islam, Judaism, Catholicism, Christianity…ALL of it. i am not discriminating…i mean ALL of it, as a whole. not just islam.

    In the Name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful.
    They have many confusing and mystifying rules in the Koran that I don’t understand. So for a man to kill his wife like this is unheard of in our Christian Bible, but take an excerpt from the Koran like this one:
    “As for oral sex, it is only permitted as a way of stimulation and foreplay. Scholars say that it is Makrooh to do it with the intention of ejaculating in wife’s mouth. This is based on the jurists’ views regarding the impurity of sperm and Madhy. Anyway, if a husband does have oral sex with his wife, and ejaculates sperm, then Ghusl is obligatory; however, if he only releases Madhy then Wudu’ is only required, and the wife has to wash the Madhy away because it is Najis.”
    It is confusing, what the hell is Makrooh, Madhy, Ghusl, Wudu, or Najis for that matter!? Until we learn what these things are we’ll never really understand what drives these people to do the things they do.

    AGREED. But to waste my time researching it, i don’t see that happening. Your point of lack of knowledge is a good one – what we don’t know about or understand we are quick to dismiss and judge harshly. I don’t know enough about Islam or anything (but Catholicism and Buddhism) to speak on it. I just judge the acts I see, by ANY religion. When they write up stories about a man molesting his kids, they don’t indicate if he’s Catholic or Jewish, we just know he’s a scum bag. But when a Muslim kills his wife, it’s definitely pointed out that’s he’s a Muslim and this gets chalked up as a terrorist act. Just playing Devil’s Advocate a little bit? Because of our past experiences w/ terrorists and Islam, we associate all of it as being negative and I don’t think that’s really fair. I have met Catholic priests who didn’t molest me or anyone I know, I have met cool Muslims, fake ass Christians…there are good and bad people who identify w/ all religions.

    First of all – swoons that Morbid even looked in my direction!!

    LMAO! I always liked to think that Morbid reads it all and only responds to stuff he feels the need to comment on? I read it ALL on here. All the front page stuff. I skip around in the forums, not enough hours in my day to read and comment on everything. I am just relieved that Morbid hasn’t outed me publicly for the retard I am. I cannot tell you guys how months ago I was stalking him via “contact us” when I was having gravitar issues, commenting issues, etc. He fixed everything and didn’t berate me as I deserved. So thank you, Morbid…if you are reading this.

    AND THANK YOU SWIV AND MORBID for front paging this ;)

  • mjkforever

    We are trying to make up for the blatant honor killings in which no media outlet will even mention the words “Islam” or “Muslim”.

    By assuming it was an honor killing, just because he’s Muslim? This is the part I am just not getting. If the exact same thing happened, where the man and woman were both Caucasian/Christian, this would not even be an issue.

    I do understand that you feel a sense of outrage. I’m not trying to put out your fire. I’m certainly no “PC elitist” and I respect your passion for something that you feel has been downplayed and hushed by our society. But when reading a previous thread tagged “honor killing” here on DD, I don’t get how – even jokingly – saying you will masturbate to the picture of 2 young girls who were killed by their father is trying to bring equality to anything. Maybe that’s just me.

  • sugarglider

    The question is, do we limit the damage they do by making our social rules lean anti-beheading, or do we defend the religions that promote this behavior?

    Unfortunately, Swivel, Christianity has its share of likeminded believers. And, meanwhile, not every Muslim is into this sort of troglodyte behavior. Ultimately, it’s not about the RELIGION. It’s about MISOGYNY, which cuts horizontally through many cultures and many religions. Religion is used to *justify* a set of practices.

    So, again, it’s about the misogyny, or, if you want to put it another way, patriarchy–the practice of affording women lesser social, cultural, physical, and legal status. The practice of domination and oppression is a big part of many Muslim religious and cultural practices (sharia law makes me so furious I want to vomit), but it’s so much bigger than any one religion.

  • sugarglider

    I hate white Muslims, black Muslims, yellow Muslims.

    Wow. Is that useful? You hate female muslims too, huh? That should help your alleged program of fostering “equality.” Philly Phan raises a good question to you , Swivel, and the more I read of your comments on this thread the more pissed off I’m getting. Reading the article pissed me off enough (or so I thought), but your responses are wacko.

    What the heck would understanding a time period have to do with it? Do they re-write the Koran every so often to keep up with the times? Is it sort of like an upgrade from Microsoft?

    Under what circumstances would that verse reveal itself as meaning something other than what it says? None of them have alternate meanings that would turn it into Thou shalt not murder or Stop and smell the roses or anything short of “DIE nonbeliever DIE”.

    Hate to tell you this, but: different types of Christians have LITERALLY rewritten the Bible numerous times through the ages. As well as interpreted it differently.

    And I guess you aren’t aware that the Bible contradicts itself? Thou shalt not kill–yeah, that’s in the 10 commandments. But all over the OT it’s stated clearly you can kill people—and that you SHOULD kill women if , for instance, they commit adultery. I’m not going to quote chapter and verse, for the sole reason that I’ve already done it ad nauseum on the DD before. You can look up the Couty Alexander thread if you want to enlighten yourself.

    I’m not defending sharia law, that’s for sure. I fuckin’ hate it. But I do not defend ANY institutionalized religion that has operated through practices such as the oppression of women. That includes Christianity—-but what is to be expected of a religion that believes that there’s a god (a male god, no less) who decided to impregnate some woman while she was sleeping, whether she wanted it or not? Yay, a god who is a rapist! Fan fucking tastic. How much do you know about Chirstianity historically, Swivel?

    Mind you, I hate sharia law. I also hate other manifestations of ignorance. *ahem*

    Unfortunately, those of us trying to light that fire are attacked as racists and bigots. For trying to bring about equality. And PC elitists who can’t do their homework are pissing on the small flames we ignite.

    Not everyone who thinks you’re missing the boat is a “PC elitist.” I’m not sure you even know what “elitist” means (it would seem not, from your sentence). Do you mean “educated”? Because that word also starts with “e.” The good news is, people can get education outside of a classroom. Really, it IS possible.

    IMO, you need to do YOUR homework–about the realities of religious and cultural practices, both historically and in the here and now.

  • sugarglider

    Just to be clear: I don’t think that all Christians are monsters (that should go without statements). But I don’t think that flippant or blanket statements are of much use here. The Old Testament, for instance, condones slavery. And slavery was justified in western culture as a perfectly Christian practice. I am not being either PC nor elitist in pointing this out.

    Apologies for spazzing. I’ve always liked your take on things, Swivel, and you picture of the kitty with the melon (or hat?) on its head, but your statements definitely got my panties in a twist. I’ll try to get them untwisted now.

  • DarkPrincess

    I really don’t care what the man’s reasons were. Whether it was religion, lunacy, or religion based lunacy, doesn’t matter. Off with his head.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    I don’t get how – even jokingly – saying you will masturbate to the picture of 2 young girls who were killed by their father is trying to bring equality to anything. Maybe that’s just me.

    How else can I harm the man that slaughtered his two lovely daughters for showing too much skin?

    I see a lot of outrage here directed at my outrage, and a lot of apologists for Islam and wife-killing.

    I see a lot of Koran-experts flat-out lying to me about having read the book. I see people waving around PhD’s and giving me anecdotal evidence about their “Muslim Friend” and how they seem so peaceful, which means they all are. My generalizing from an increasing and violent trend is racist, but saying that all Muslims want peace is logical.

    I love stirring up this pot. I don’t like the crazies pretending to be moderate, I like pissing them off so they will expose themselves. I like watching people try and convince themselves that Islam is a religion of peace. And giving me hypotheticals like, “What if this was a Christian?”. News flash: Christians are just as psychotic. Is this the defense for Islam, that it is just as crazy as Christianity?

    I’ve got one person telling me this isn’t an honor killing because the Koran explicitly says to use rocks and not knives! Seriously, this is the way you guys reason? Are you really trying to convince yourself that religion is a good and peaceful human institution? Not history buffs, eh?

    We have tried silence. It doesn’t work. It hasn’t won rights for gays and it didn’t protect kids from pedophilic priests. It hasn’t helped women in the Middle East and it is allowing them to be harmed in OUR country now. We should shut up and be inclusive? Pretend that this was an isolated event? Hope it will go away if we will look the other direction? There is a CULTURE out there that supports these killings. Until that culture is destroyed, we should assume that everything with feathers, quacking, is a duck.

    I’m not going to shut up about this. I don’t think Aasiya would want me to. Or any of the other women out there living in fear of their own family. Hell, no.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    Hate to tell you this, but: different types of Christians have LITERALLY rewritten the Bible numerous times through the ages. As well as interpreted it differently.

    Uhhh… I didn’t write most of what you quoted above. You are aware of my feelings about Christianity, right?

  • sugarglider

    I see a lot of outrage here directed at my outrage, and a lot of apologists for Islam and wife-killing.

    I haven’t read all the posts, but I certainly hope that isn’t true. There is no legitimate defense for wife-killing, nor for any interpretation of any religious text to that effect.

    How else can I harm the man that slaughtered his two lovely daughters for showing too much skin?

    I’m not sure how joking about jacking off over them can possibly do anything but perpetuate the problem.

    I see a lot of Koran-experts flat-out lying to me about having read the book. I see people waving around PhD’s and giving me anecdotal evidence about their “Muslim Friend” and how they seem so peaceful, which means they all are. My generalizing from an increasing and violent trend is racist, but saying that all Muslims want peace is logical.

    Like I said, I haven’t read all the posts, but if someone actually said that all Muslims want peace, they are obviously wrong.

    There is a CULTURE out there that supports these killings. Until that culture is destroyed, we should assume that everything with feathers, quacking, is a duck.

    Well, that’s how some Muslims feel about Christians, too (not surprising, considering the history–the Crusades and such). It’s a bit of a problem… I’m grateful that our country was founded on separating religion and secular law.

  • sugarglider

    Uhhh… I didn’t write most of what you quoted above. You are aware of my feelings about Christianity, right?

    Swivel–Gotcha. I got swept away. So much for multi-tasking. I always eff up when I try to multi-task. I was quoting Dakota there, not you.

  • sugarglider

    p.s Happy to admit my error.

    I’d like to say, though, that I do think the BIGGEST issue with criticizing religion isn’t a PC/non-PC issue. The whole interpretation of what “religious freedom” should mean is a huge issue for Americans. MY understanding of Jefferson’s words is that we should be able to free of other people imposing their religious beliefs on others.

    But a great many people in the US think they should be allowed to do whatever they want to do because it’s their religious right to do so. Personally, I think we really need an amendment to clarify what “religious freedom” means and doesn’t mean. Until we have it, we will never be able to speak freely about how aspects of various religious practices are too abhorrent to be tolerated.

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    So I suppose just sitting here keeping my mouth shut about something that I think is wrong is what you think I should do then? Perhaps you should reread the entire purpose of this site, which, as far as I can tell, is to incite people to DO SOMETHING and to SPEAK UP when they see something they feel is wrong.

    You can consider it a personal attack if you want to, but my point stands. Hating *any* group of people based on race or religion is wrong, and hating a group in the name of eradicating hate is like the old fucking for virginity joke. You can hate what he DID, which I totally do, but his religion doesn’t need to come into play unless there is some evidence pointing to a religious motive. What you did was ASSUME there was a religious motive and you took that assumption as a reason to attack all people of that religion. You lump all the hate-mongering sects together but somehow exclude yourself from them when you are spewing the same exact shit, just it isn’t pointed in *your* direction so that makes it different?

    How many thousands of Muslim’s in America DON’T murder their wives or daughters when they shame the family? We don’t know, because those things aren’t reported. We see the few who do, and we don’t have a shred of information in this case that points to that motive other than the simple fact that he is Muslim, which just isn’t enough proof in my book, and probably anyone’s book who isn’t a racist hiding behind “freedom railing” or whatever the hell you choose to call your hate-filled ranting. How many thousands of *people* do kill, not because of any religious or ethnic reasons, but simply because they chose not to exercise some self-control when an evil thought crossed their minds?

    I never, for a single microsecond, stated or thought that his actions were anything but incomprehensible. And he should be punished, as a murderer. Not as a Muslim. As a murderer. Because murder is a crime. Being a Muslim is not. And for all your freedom railing, it certainly doesn’t seem like you believe in the freedom to choose your religion. I guess because that isn’t important *to you* so it shouldn’t be important to anyone else?

    I am not PC anything-or I would not have said anything to you. I would have been afraid to rock the damn boat. And elitist? Are you kidding me? I don’t even think that a response to that is justified.

    But I’ll be damned if I am going to sit by silently while someone spews racist vomit. I doubt Aasiya would want her life’s mission to be flushed down the toilet because of her husband’s actions. You say you are defending her, but that is bullshit. You didn’t even mention her until the end of the first page of comments (other than the original article, of course). You used her as an excuse to justify your bigoted statements. How does that honor her? In case you have forgotten, SHE was Muslim, too. So by your own words, that means you hate her, too. Hating people because of their race/religion is no different than hating people for capitalism, or gender, or socio-economic status, or any other reason that isn’t based on something specific to that one individual.

    As I said, you are entitled to your opinion, even if it is racist and bigoted. (But I think you are a coward for not owning up to your racism.) I am entitled to mine. And my opinion is that with your character, according to what I have witnessed in this thread, had you been born into a Muslim family, you *would* be an extremist who hates all Americans. Not because of Islam, but because of your nature to hate anything that isn’t *like you.*

    And you know what, I think you are dead fucking wrong, but I still don’t hate you. I hate evil, and there is evil in your hatred, but I still don’t hate you. I think you *think* you are trying to save the freaking world, but you don’t even see how you are contributing to the problem in the first place. Hate comes with blinders. You can’t see people…*really* see people…for who they are when all you see is the reason you won’t accept them. That deserves pity, not hate. And you have mine, sir.

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    I see a lot of outrage here directed at my outrage, and a lot of apologists for Islam and wife-killing.

    Kindly quote for me a SINGLE comment that said what he did was a-okay.

    Islam doesn’t need an apology. It has not been indicated by anyone other than yourself as a culprit in this crime.

  • Zibarro

    But a great many people in the US think they should be allowed to do whatever they want to do because it’s their religious right to do so. Personally, I think we really need an amendment to clarify what “religious freedom” means and doesn’t mean. Until we have it, we will never be able to speak freely about how aspects of various religious practices are too abhorrent to be tolerated.

    I can agree with that.

    I believe that everyone should have the right to believe in what/who they want – but when it comes to religious practices – if it is against “man’s laws” it should be unacceptable – period. That would include murder, slavery, pedophilia/molestation, neglect (medical or physical) assault – and for the catholic church – strong armed robbery :-P (Ok, that is just my personal feeling – but those fuckers are getting disgustingly rich off the backs of their parishioner’s through fear and intimidation of hell and eternal damnation)

    Unfortunately, that would be impossible to do. I’m thinkin’ our forefather’s never imagined the religions that would pop up and cloak themselves in that doctrine – and had no knowledge of those that already existed that would seek refuge behind our “religious freedom” phrase in (both) their attempts to not be held accountable for their heinous acts done in the name of their god.

    I don’t see any way to remedy this across the board. Not without one religion accusing another or others of pushing THEIR beliefs off on them.

    Sorry if that comes off confusing – sometimes in my head I know what I’m trying to convey, but writing it out is a whole ‘nuther issue! lol

  • sugarglider

    Cheeky, are you talking to me, or to Swivel?

  • mjkforever

    I love stirring up this pot. I don’t like the crazies pretending to be moderate, I like pissing them off so they will expose themselves. I like watching people try and convince themselves that Islam is a religion of peace. And giving me hypotheticals like, “What if this was a Christian?”. News flash: Christians are just as psychotic. Is this the defense for Islam, that it is just as crazy as Christianity?

    There’s stirring the pot when you’ve got the right ingredients for making a stew, and then there’s stirring a pot just because you like the motion of going ’round and ’round. Personally, you can’t convince me that you’ve got the right ingredients.

    If it were a Christian, the motive behind the murder would not be said to be an honor killing. Religion wouldn’t even FIGURE as the motive. That was my point. Please do not try to imply that I thought Christians were any better or worse, or that I was trying for any sort of defense for anyone, or I ever thought for one nanosecond that Islam is a religion of peace.

    How else can I harm the man that slaughtered his two lovely daughters for showing too much skin?

    Oh yes, you sure punished him. I’m sure he’ll think twice about messing with YOU again.

    I am a lurker. I don’t find the need to comment because 99% of the time, the comments and opinions expressed on DD happen to mirror my own. But I had to come out of lurk mode to stand up and say I disagree with what you say, Swivel. Doesn’t mean I don’t like ya, just means I don’t agree.

  • sugarglider

    Oh, okay, I finished reading your post, Cheeky–you are definitely talking to Swivel.

    I seem to be extra-confused today…

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    Oh, okay, I finished reading your post, Cheeky–you are definitely talking to Swivel.

    Yes, you are right..I actually agree with pretty much all of your comments. But I am on the rag so I said it much bitchier. Heh.

  • sugarglider

    Yes, Zibarro, the founding fathers did know that religion was used to justify evils. That’s exactly why they insisted on separation of religion and civil law, and why Jefferson’s 1779 statute said that one had the right to be unimposed on by other’s religions (true for atheists, even). A just government
    works best, they reasoned, by being entirely separate. Hence, I hate it when people wrongly refer to America as a Christian nation, etc. That’s extremely unAmerican, even if the founding fathers were Christians.

    Yes, MJK, neither Christianity nor Islam are necessarily religions of peace.
    Both have been used, and still are used in various ways, to justify atrocities.

    Swivel, I have to say, I do not think the term “politically correct” is very useful, for the reason that people often use it in order to shut down other people’s interest in examining ccomplexities and in order to marginalize them as alleged wusses who are somehow unable to just face simple facts. But the facts really aren’t that simple, as Cheeky points out. That doesn’t mean I’m a fan of burkas or abayas. I don’t like to see women oppressed in any culture, for any reason.

    On that note, does anyone remember that Couty Alexander thread, by the way (Lizard wrote the article, if I remember correctly), or if Christa Alexander ever got justice? Anyway, that was a fascinating case because it was about a god-fearing Christian country boy, a missionary and EMT, who shot and killed his equally god-fearing Christian missionary wife. A lot of their extremist-sect church members came on and quoted endlessly from the Bible about how man is the head of woman, woman is supposed to submit to man, etc, etc. BUT also said that their religious beliefs had nothing to do with Couty killing Christa. They could not reconcile the fact of Couty’s extremist Christian beliefs with the fact that he killed his wife—–they could not process the fact that the way their sect chose to interpretat their chosen religious text looked like a factor in Couty’s decision to murder his wife when she did not submit. If you would have asked them, I’m SURE they would have said, “oh, no, that’s what a Muslim would do, but not us, we just think women are inferior to men.” Blinders… Actually, I think there may well have been some statements to that effect on that thread somewhere or other.

  • Uvgottabkiddin

    LMAO! I always liked to think that Morbid reads it all and only responds to stuff he feels the need to comment on? I read it ALL on here. All the front page stuff. I skip around in the forums, not enough hours in my day to read and comment on everything. I am just relieved that Morbid hasn’t outed me publicly for the retard I am. I cannot tell you guys how months ago I was stalking him via “contact us” when I was having gravitar issues, commenting issues, etc. He fixed everything and didn’t berate me as I deserved. So thank you, Morbid…if you are reading this.

    kinda like the GOD FATHER! Morbid sees all….. lol

  • sugarglider

    If it were a Christian, the motive behind the murder would not be said to be an honor killing. Religion wouldn’t even FIGURE as the motive. That was my point.

    MJK, yes–that’s why I then brought up the murder of Christa Alexander. Their sect members, who kept saying they just couldn’t understand how a “nice christian boy” could have shot his wife in the head like that, were OUTRAGED that I dared suggest there was something rotten about their beliefs about gender (even while they wouldn’t STFU about how the Bible insists that women are supposed to be perpetually subervient to men. It was mighty interesting).

    Swivel, just to close on a peaceful note, we do all hate men who hurt their wives. And if Asaiya’s husband DOES use some sort of religious basis to try to justify what he did, I’m quite sure we will all abhor that, too. That is our common ground. ‘Night, folks!

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    How many thousands of Muslim’s in America DON’T murder their wives or daughters when they shame the family? We don’t know, because those things aren’t reported.

    How many thousands of Muslim women and daughters DON’T leave abusive husbands or marry the people they love because of the perpetual state of fear they live in? We won’t know as long as we pretend Islam isn’t a problem and these thousands and thousands of separate and related events are pure coincidence.

  • http://www.cheekysweetie.com CheekySweetie

    How many thousands of Muslim women and daughters DON’T leave abusive husbands or marry the people they love because of the perpetual state of fear they live in? We won’t know as long as we pretend Islam isn’t a problem and these thousands and thousands of separate and related events are pure coincidence.

    Domestic violence is a problem completely apart from Muslim oppression, swivel. I work with victims of DV every single flipping day. DV crosses ALL boundaries-ethnic, socio-economic, racial, national, religious, educational…it is a problem in every. single. segment. of our society. Singling out DV in homes that practice Islam to the exclusion of DV in other cultures is so completely narrowminded.

    If you *really* want to protect women, speak out against DV in GENERAL. There are women suffering and afraid to leave in Christian homes, agnostic homes, atheist homes, Catholic homes, Jewish homes, white homes, black homes, hispanic homes, asian homes, poor homes, wealthy homes, middle-class homes, American homes, Pakistani homes, Canadian homes, South American homes, European homes, high school drop-out homes, PhD homes, and every kind of home in between.

    I have not once stated that Islam can not be twisted into the evil you seem to perceive it as. It *can* be and it *is* in true honor killing cases, and terrorism against western citizens, and other atrocities that have *truly* stemmed from religious motivations. But anything *can* be twisted. Patriotism for our own country can be twisted into something evil. Romantic love can be twisted into something dangerous. Technology can be used to harm. Anything, even things that are mostly positive, can be bent into something nasty. Rail against the nasty thing it becomes (ie spousal abuse, domestic violence, sexual abuse and assault, murder), not the core thing that was twisted is my point, and be sure that the cause and effect relationship is actually there.

    And, I want to apologize for being as abrasive as I was. I do not apologize for the points I made, but I was pretty harsh in making them.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    And, I want to apologize for being as abrasive as I was. I do not apologize for the points I made, but I was pretty harsh in making them.

    You are a great person, but don’t ever apologize for being abrasive on this site, at least not to me. I love a heated argument. I want people up in arms, as much against me as with me. I respect everything that has been said in these comments, even though I disagree with much of it.

    I’m with you on DV. My wife has worked closely with Lenore Walker on DV, traveling to other countries to try and figure out how we can better help women in violent homes. I’ve worn ribbons and marched. But DV is a lot like smoking, there are multiple habits to break. That smoke-after-a-meal is different than the smoke-while-shooting-pool. Getting rid of DV in humans, which have gone the dimorphic sexual selection route is going to be difficult. One of the quickest and easiest types of DV we can get rid of immediately is that sown by religious cultures that still teach men to view women as property.

    What fascinates me about this case is the husband’s role in advancing Muslim relations. This smells like one of those preachers who go on and on about the evils of homosexuality while they are meeting male hookers in motel rooms later the same day. Hassan was probably battling his own Islam-fueled demons which is what drove him to rationalize his culture via television. Without this element of hypocrisy, and the nonchalant nature by which he performed the deed and turned himself in, I would think the Islam-apologists here had a leg to stand on with their “random psycho” hypothesis.

    Now if you will excuse me, I’m going to go tug another one off to those Arab hotties in loving memory of their passing.

  • http://www.myspace.com/titicarie philly_phan

    What fascinates me about this case is the husband’s role in advancing Muslim relations. This smells like one of those preachers who go on and on about the evils of homosexuality while they are meeting male hookers in motel rooms later the same day. Hassan was probably battling his own Islam-fueled demons which is what drove him to rationalize his culture via television. Without this element of hypocrisy, and the nonchalant nature by which he performed the deed and turned himself in, I would think the Islam-apologists here had a leg to stand on with their “random psycho” hypothesis.

    THAT is it right there. He perpetrated a fraud and hid behind or within his religion to condone or justify it.

  • mjkforever

    I doubt Aasiya would want her life’s mission to be flushed down the toilet because of her husband’s actions. You say you are defending her, but that is bullshit. You didn’t even mention her until the end of the first page of comments (other than the original article, of course). You used her as an excuse to justify your bigoted statements. How does that honor her?

    Yeah, and at no point have you offered to rub one out in HER honor!! Don’t you want to punish Muzzammil Hassan as well?

    Sorry, couldn’t resist, Swivel.

  • BooBoo

    I know I’m a little late in commenting but I just read on another site that this POS had been beating/abusing his wife for some time and that was the reason for the restraining order. She actually had to get the order to remove him from the home – he apparently was not willing to leave on his own. Also in the article they too were calling it an honor killing…. I had my doubts about that at first (I just thought he was another psycho who had killed his wife) but after reading it here and at another site I have changed my opinion.

  • Athena

    I wonder why he didn’t kill his first wife?

  • Dakota Valkyrie

    I wonder why he didn’t kill his first wife?

    The first divorce was probably his idea. This time it was hers and “how dare she”?

    Wonder if Holly will come over and tell us “He’s been around wives before and never beheaded them”?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    I know I’m a little late in commenting but I just read on another site that this POS had been beating/abusing his wife for some time and that was the reason for the restraining order. She actually had to get the order to remove him from the home – he apparently was not willing to leave on his own. Also in the article they too were calling it an honor killing…. I had my doubts about that at first (I just thought he was another psycho who had killed his wife) but after reading it here and at another site I have changed my opinion.

    About half the sites I’ve seen are calling this an honor killing. The other half won’t put up a perp’s pic if he isn’t white. I haven’t sorted out the connection yet.

  • Dakota Valkyrie

    What if the head of the Spike channel decapitated his wife? I bet all hell would break loose with a channel that touts itself as “unapologetically male” oriented.

    The media is stumbling all over themselves to be so damn PC. If you look at the coverage of Haiyang Zhu (Virgina tech student that decapitated Xin Yang) you will find over 1700 hits on Google News… compared to less than 900 on Muzzammil Hassan. You can knock the hits down several hundred by just adding the term “Islam” or “Muslim”.

    In their effort to look good, the media is doing a major disservice to exactly what and who Aasiya was. She worked hard to show people that Muslims are not the terrors many think. That women can be capable and competent. And she was destroyed by the very thing she stood against.

    This goes far beyond domestic violence. It cuts to the heart of the treatment of Muslim women by their men. Honor killing or not.

  • Athena

    Well-put, Dakota. There’s a difference between demonizing an entire faction of society and recognizing dangers within a culture. And it is some PC bullshit. People are quick to associate pedophilia with Catholicism, pointing out that the culture among clergy lends itself to the practice. So, why can’t we point out that Islamic or Middle Eastern culture lends itself to the mistreatment of women?

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com swivel

    This goes far beyond domestic violence. It cuts to the heart of the treatment of Muslim women by their men. Honor killing or not.

    I agree. I wonder what Aasiya would want, if she were alive. A woman who coaxed her husband into starting a TV channel to change people’s opinions about Islam. Would she want us to shrug our shoulders and assume this was just another psychotic husband? I’m sure there are tens of MILLIONS of Muslim men out there that hope to hell this is what people think she would want.

    I don’t.

    And yeah, you guys are free to act on what your best guesses are regarding my wishes after I am dead.

  • WryBread

    As far as I’m concerned Islam is a cruel culture mascarading as a religion.

  • http://www.myspace.com/jent1995 jenjen0135

    To deepen this tragedy, the Hassan’s leave four poor children who are now without a head-of-household.

    UUUUGGGGHHHH.

  • http://www.dreamindemon.com/forums/ Dakota Valkyrie

    I’m not sure “extremely pissed off” should qualify as “emotional distress”.

    A man accused of beheading his wife at the television station they founded to counter stereotypes of Muslims is likely to claim emotional distress was behind the killing in hopes of avoiding a murder conviction.

    Muzzammil Hassan, 45, is scheduled to be tried in January on a charge of second-degree murder in the death of 37-year-old Aasiya Hassan. A psychiatric defense would allow jurors to find him guilty of a lesser charge of manslaughter, according to Hassan’s attorney, who made his plans known during a pretrial conference Friday.

    “Extreme emotional disturbance is not an insanity defense,” attorney James Harrington said afterward. “It’s related to the state of mind of the person at the time.”
    [...]

    Assistant District Attorney Colleen Curtin Gable has said the prosecution’s case would be built on alleged admissions, forensic evidence and “strong motive evidence.”

    On Friday, she asked Erie County Judge Thomas Franczyk to bar the defense from introducing psychiatric evidence, saying Harrington had taken months longer than he should have to reveal his trial strategy.

    Franczyk put off ruling on the prosecutor’s request after Harrington said funds for psychiatric testing were being held up by civil actions surrounding Aasiya Hassan’s estate. Muzzammil Hassan’s assets have been frozen while the civil matters, including a wrongful death lawsuit filed on behalf of the couple’s two young children, are negotiated.

    Muzzammil Hassan has two other children from a previous marriage.

    If convicted of second-degree murder, he could be given a life prison sentence. The sentence for first-degree manslaughter is up to 25 years.

    Source

  • Dakota Valkyrie

    The cable TV executive accused of beheading his wife in Orchard Park last year now claims he was the one humiliated and abused.

    Through his new lawyer, Muzzammil S. “Mo” Hassan claimed Friday that he was a “battered spouse” who was left emotionally out of control by the constant abuse his wife inflicted on him.

    Hassan's lawyer, Frank M. Bogulski, called the legal defense the first of its kind in the country.

    “The spouse was the dominant figure in this relationship,” Bogulski told a reporter afterward. “He was the victim. She was verbally abusive. She had humiliated him.”

    The allegations prompted an immediate rebuke from the prosecution.

    “He chopped her head off,” District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III said of Hassan. “He chopped her head off. That's all I have to say about Mr. Hassan's apparent defense that he was a battered spouse.”
    [...]

    During Friday's court hearing, Hassan fired the attorney who represented him for nearly a year and replaced him with a lawyer who promised “a revolutionary defense.”

    Bogulski told reporters he is “confident” he can get an acquittal for Hassan on an unprecedented defense combining psychiatric elements and legal justification.

    Homicide prosecutor Colleen Curtin Gable, though, noted that Hassan was beheaded about a week after she began formal divorce proceedings.
    [...]

    http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/932322.html