Brandon Piekarsky, Derrick Donchak, Colin Walsh and Luis Ramirez
A preliminary hearing was underway at the Schuylkill County courthouse on Monday. Outside, a group of protesters, made up of immigrant workers’ and immigrants’ rights groups, had become so loud, the hearing had to be stopped so that authorities could get the group to quiet down. The hearing dealt with the beating death of 24-year-old Luis Ramirez, an immigrant who entered the US illegally 6 years ago, and currently resided in Shenandoah, a coal mining town in northeast PA. He lived there along with his fiancee, a Shenandoah native, and worked at a local factory and a farm hand. He died from injuries he suffered during a racially charged, late-night altercation in a park on July 12th. His attackers? Three teenagers from Shenandoah. All-American boys who were current and former members of the Shenandoah Valley High School football team. The hearing was to see if prosecutors had enough evidence to charge the three teens with 1st and 2nd degree murder.. Read on for the details.
Colin Walsh, 17, and Brandon Piekarsky, 16, and Derrick Donchak, 18 were in the park drinking with other friends the night they saw Luis Rameriz walking in Vine Street Park with a 13-year-old white girl, a relative of his fiancee. The group of teens confronted the pair and began taunting the young girl. Ben Lawson, 17, testified that another teen, Brian Scully, asked the girl “Isn’t it a little late for you to be out?” as well as using a racial slur directed towards Ramirez. Ramirez responded in Spanish. A series of fights then broke out that first included Piekarsky and Ramirez, then Donchak and Ramirez. Donchak was using some type of metal object during the attack, akin to brass knuckles. Lawson testified that while Ramirez was fighting with Donchak, Walsh hit Ramirez in the face with a running sucker punch. Ramirez fell to the ground and hit his head, knocking him unconscious. Piekarsky then walked over and kicked Ramirez in the left temple. Ramirez never regained consciousness and died two days later in Geisinger Medical Center from multiple skull fractures.
Lawson then testified that after the attack, the group met at Piekarsky’s house and they all agreed to lie, coming up with a story that was quite different than what had actually transpired. A story that left out the booze, racial comments and the kick to the head. They would also lie and say Ramirez punched first.
Elizabeth Schlack, who lives near where the attack happened, testified that she heard sounds that night and observed three men kicking another man as she looked outside her window, about 80 feet from the altercation. Although she could not identify the three who were doing the kicking, she testified the kicking continued for at least two minutes while on the telephone with 911.
Eileen J. Burke also testified. She is a retired PhiladelphiaPhiladelphia reviews
police officer who also lives near the park. She testified that she heard screams and then went outside and saw the defendants, along with other teens, running from the scene. She testified that she witnessed Walsh and Piekarsky pounding on a vehicle driven by Arielle Garcia, a friend Ramirez had called on his cell phone shortly before any fighting had started. Burke said Piekarsky yelled at Garcia, “Tell your *expletive* Mexican friends to get the *expletive* out of Shenandoah or you’ll be *expletive* laying next to him“
Crystal Dillman, Ramirez’s 24-year-old fiancee and mother of his children, testified that Ramirez called at around 11:30 p.m. and said he was walking to her apartment. Shortly after that call, she got a text message of “help” from his phone. When she called back, she was informed that Ramirez was injured. When she arrived on the scene she saw Ramirez convulsing on the ground, foaming at the mouth. She also testified that Ramirez was often the target of racial comments in regards to him being an immigrant.
The defense stated that this was just a simple fight in which the victim gave just as good as he got, and that the most anyone should, or could be charged with, was simple assault. Piekarsky’s lawyer, Frederick Fanelli, asked the judge if they really were going to hang his client on the word of Lawson, an admitted drunk teenager who witnessed the event “from a darkened park across a darkened roadway“. Roger Laguna, Walsh’s lawyer, stated his client was only doing what Ramirez was doing, saying that Ramirez was “repeatedly attacking him, and won’t quit.“
After hearing all the evidence, District Judge Anthony Kilker dropped the first and second-degree murder charges prosecutors where after but ruled that prosecutors had enough to try Colin Walsh and Brandon Piekarsky on counts of third-degree murder and ethnic intimidation. Derrick Donchak will stand trial on aggravated assault and ethnic intimidation charges.
“It’s been a really hard day for me, and I’m just really happy that the charges stuck,” Dillman said after the hearing.
But this is far from over as Shenandoah is a hot-bed of tension in regards to local residents and their new Hispanic population. Word of the case has spread, and some of the protesters traveled as far as ChicagoChicago reviews
to take part and provide assistance. There were also a few counter-protesters outside of the preliminary hearing. Debbie Rabold told protesters that Ramirez had no business being in the US all while waving her passport in the air. She stated “Our tax dollars should be supporting us and the services for us, not for illegal people who shouldn’t have been in this country in the first place.” Laura Kryzanowsky, a Potsville resident added “They’re out there yelling ‘No Justice, No Peace.’ That’s a declaration of war, buddy. No justice, no peace. If our system doesn’t do what you want it to do, you’re going to declare war?“
I figured the days of non-whites swinging from the branches of trees where long gone. Not that racism has disappeared, or that it ever will, but that our society would view the murder of a man as justifiable simply over the lack of a signature on a document. Thank *insert deity* the judge in this case didn’t feel that way, even if some of the people who electing him seem to. There is no doubt that Shenandoah is a snapshot of other small towns across portions of the US. But whatever side of the border you stand on, in regards to illegal immigration, murder is murder. I am curious as what our readers think. Regardless of your feelings on our current immigration issues…should a US citizen get a lighter sentence if they murder an illegal immigrant? Does anyone feel the question is as big an assault on common-sense as I did while typing it?
11:42 am on August 19th, 2008
Um, does this mean it’s ok to sit at the border and just shoot ‘em as they come across? If so, that terrifies me. WTF is happening to our country?
11:46 am on August 19th, 2008
Well, it seems as if the law is taking it course, as the teens were charged. I am more ashamed at some of the residents that somehow feel as the boys did nothing wrong, or at least, that Ramirez deserved to die.
11:55 am on August 19th, 2008
Murder is murder, that they view his life as less because he was here illegally is beyond stupid!!! If it was reversed they would hang him from the nearest tree, they sure wouldn’t want to send him “home”!
11:57 am on August 19th, 2008
Living in a town full of immigrants (illegal or not), killing them is not the answer!! You cannot tell by looking at them if they have the paper work. Most of the residents in my town just assume they are not legal. I am glad these kids got charged with something and I would hope that if they had better witnesses they would have been charged with murder.
11:59 am on August 19th, 2008
A murder is a murder. Ramirez’s legal standing should not even be a factor in this case. The boys could not prove one way or another whether he was illegal when they attacked him. I don’t know many Hispanic people that carry their birth certificates around with them. He was a human who’s life was taken by some cowards. He had a family and was loved.
I hope those boys have a great time in prison. They are gonna have to join ranks with some pretty terrible people to stay protected from the Hispanic population in there. And judging by the looks of these pretty boys, there is only one way they are gonna earn favor with their new “protectors.” Yep, by giving up some of that sweet young ass.
Say it with me boys, “Aye, papi…”
12:14 pm on August 19th, 2008
How can people actually try to justify these boy’s actions like that?
Murder is the act of killing another human being. It doesn’t matter what religion, race, color, height, weight, or status anybody is, murder is murder. Are they trying to say that the victim wasn’t like the murderers so it was okay?
They need to stop looking at the negatives regarding this man, he didn’t deserve to die just because he crossed the border. He didn’t deserve to suffer the way he did and I can’t believe people would want those kids walking around their town knowing they are fully capable of taking another human’s life.
12:36 pm on August 19th, 2008
How fucking retarded and narrow-minded can those counter-protesting assholes be? Regardless of this man’s citizenship status, he’s a human being, and murder is murder. If an American citizen was in Mexico illegally and was murdered, what would they think of that? That he deserved it because he shouldn’t have been there in the first place? Fucking morons.
That photo of him at the bottom of the article is heartbreaking. His poor fiancee and children. What a nightmare.
I’m glad that these shitheads are being charged for what they did; I only wish they were being charged more harshly. I hope they are punished to the fullest allowable extent of the law.
12:48 pm on August 19th, 2008
I agree! How can anyone look at that photo and not feel compassion? A human being was murdered! Legal, illegal, purple, yellow, French, Spanish, Italian who gives a fuck! Punish the little assholes to the fullest extent of the law.
1:47 pm on August 19th, 2008
I agree with Kathy, murder is murder, illegal or not, it is a crime and those three men need to pay for their crime, wether they were drinking in the park or not, they would have still confronted the poor guy and probably the same actions would have taken place, death, I will say that i do feel sorry for the fiancee and the child and also i am sorry for these three men taht were involved in the beating, i feel sorry for their extended families, because once this happens it hits the whole family, it trickles down like a faucet, i know because my first cousin, sad to say, murdered a women and he is in prison, where he should be, for the rest of his life without a chance of parole, so i know how they all feel, and i am truly sorry
2:46 pm on August 19th, 2008
Hmmmm, this is a very sad case indeed. Being in this country illegally is not a reason to be murdered. And just because an individual is here illegally is not a reason to assault and murder them.
It is easy to say, “well if he had not been here illegally this would not have happened.” That is pure BS. Based on some of the witness statements they, the boys who did it, feel this way about Hispanics in general.
I am absolutely against illegal immigration. I think that all immigrants should come here legally, I did. The only way that this problem is ever going to get fixed is to enforce the law already on the books and to heavily fine companies that employ illegal immigrants and imprison those that repeatedly do this.
If we take away the source of jobs then the flood of illegals coming here will die out.
2:51 pm on August 19th, 2008
This is absolutely horrible. A human life is a human life… plain and simple. The judge didn’t do enough if you ask me! I disagree with illegal entry into the states. I disagree with the fact that he had a regular employer… but I disagree with anyone who thinks you have the right to hurt or kill someone for any reason other than self-defense.
3:14 pm on August 19th, 2008
Over and over again, the sentiment “murder is murder” is expressed.
But, it’s not.
Murder, in this case, is actually murder+, because it was racially-charged. In America, killing someone because they’re the right kind of different is far worse than killing someone because they had money or because they screwed your wife.
I think 3rd degree murder is a reasonable charge. I’m honestly surprised that it wasn’t dropped to manslaughter, but, given the controversy, I doubt the judge would have allowed that, even if the evidence necessitated such a charge. Either way, the hate crime enhancement that’s been tacked on is a load of shit, in my opinion. After all, murder is murder, right?
3:43 pm on August 19th, 2008
As an anglo male, my opinion is:
“String these small-town football playin’ backward mother-f’rs up!!!”
I do not understand how the townspeople can publicly defend the actions of these ignorant racist teens. Is the Klu Klux Klan active and have a lot of disciples in Shenandoah??? Is this a town that is very poor with a lot of low income white trash – and they see the immigrants as ruining their livelihood?
Another thing, and I would like other men on this site to comment on this – Do you have it in you to litterally kick another human being (or animal) in the head repeatedly when he/she/it is laying down unconscious??? I remember back about 15 years ago when I was at a nightclub in Scottsdale, AZ and as the crowd was funneling out of the club at 2:00AM a fight started in the parking lot. Same thing happened in front of a couple hundred people – guy gets clocked, falls backway on his head (knocked out), and several guys started kicking him in the head. A bunch of us yelled for them to stop but didn’t get involved physically as we didn’t was to fight – there were 4-5 big dudes… Personally, it is something I regret not having jumped in at the time, but who knows – they guy might have deserved to get his ass kicked but what can justify being practicly killed? They probably kicked the guy for ~15 seconds – maybe 5-10 kicks… I don’t know what happened to that guy, but he was seriously messed up and I think he easily could have died as a result.
I don’t understand how some people can be so violent (wanting to get into fights while out for the night clubbing). But even more so, how can some people be so viscious (take it beyond fighting to seriously assaulting someone who is indefensive) to someone they do not know???
3:52 pm on August 19th, 2008
Plain and simple. They are pussies.
I bet not one of these boys would have fought that man – or even confronted him – if they had been alone.
Hitting someone while they are down is a pussy move, kind of like a crotch kick. There is no honor in fighting fair anymore. Used to be, you got into a scuffle, you took your licks and when the fight was over, you moved on. Everything was equal. In the end one may have looked worse than the other, but the aggression was worked out and everyone was still alive…most of the time.
Now and days, you end up in a fight you never know if the other person is gonna pull out a weapon or if their friends are gonna jump in.
I’m not a man. But I like to scrap.
3:59 pm on August 19th, 2008
While it is that I’m very much against murder, if he hadn’t illegally been in the country then he wouldn’t be dead. 3 on 1 is never fair unless you’re Bruce Lee and they should burn in hell for attacking him. I’m all for throwing all illegals back across the border but there’s a line that you don’t cross. I think that they should all be charged with a hate crime instead of just intimidation.
4:09 pm on August 19th, 2008
If he hadn’t been walking down that street that night, he wouldn’t be dead. If those fucknuts had better sense of right and wrong, he wouldn’t be dead. If he was a white man, he wouldn’t be dead.
If he was here legally, he would still be dead. That changes nothing else about the whole situation. No one involved knew for sure about his legal status until AFTER he was dying already.
Get it?
4:14 pm on August 19th, 2008
I think how many times he was kicked while he was down would make the difference between murder and manslaughter. One kick, you could make a case for manslaughter. Two minutes, it’s murder. Although I can’t believe the prosecutor even tried for murder one.
4:14 pm on August 19th, 2008
Rumpilstiltskin, “ethnic intimidation” IS a hate crime, and it carries with it the hate crime sentencing enhancement.
4:21 pm on August 19th, 2008
I think how many times he was kicked while he was down would make the difference between murder and manslaughter. One kick, you could make a case for manslaughter. Two minutes, it’s murder. Although I can’t believe the prosecutor even tried for murder one.
I’m down with all that, theoretically. In reality, though, I was in a fight where I was kicked in the head repeatedly while on the ground for a significant period of time (I stopped counting after 9 kicks). Should she have been charged with attempted murder? I don’t think so.
From my perspective, intent should play the starring role in determining charges. I don’t believe these little shits meant to kill the victim. Of course, I’m not privy to the exact amount of time they continued to beat the victim after he fell. That could certainly speak to the intent to kill. However, if it was just a couple of unfortunately placed kicks, manslaughter is the way to go.
4:45 pm on August 19th, 2008
When I saw that ^^^ I knew this was coming from Kathy:
Kathy doesn’t let us down.
4:46 pm on August 19th, 2008
A life is a life, I don’t care what color, or country they are from. This is so sad. These boys should never see the light of day again.
4:47 pm on August 19th, 2008
That explains it. And here, all this time, I thought you were just dropped.
Love ya’!
4:57 pm on August 19th, 2008
Do you have it in you to litterally kick another human being (or animal) in the head repeatedly when he/she/it is laying down unconscious???
I think you’d be surprised to find out what people have in them. Some interesting reading can be done on the Milgram Experiment and the Stanford Prison Experiment, among others. The man who conducted the famous Stanford Prison Experiment, Philip Zimbardo, went on to be elected president of the American Psychological Association in 2002 and has since written a book, The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil that was released in 2007. Really, it’s a book I would recommend every Demonite to read, especially since it deals quite a bit with social situational influence (think: Kitty Genovese murder, Modesto stomping incident).
4:57 pm on August 19th, 2008
Hate/murder. I believe I have ranted on this before. Murder is most often a product of hate. I personally believe these boys are getting off a little easy. 3rd degree? Do an experiment- put a pillow on the floor- now you and two friends take turns kicking it for 2 minutes and keep track of how many blows get gut took while he was down. It’s fucking sickening. :mad as hell:
Punk ass coward fucks.
4:57 pm on August 19th, 2008
5:00 pm on August 19th, 2008
That explains it. And here, all this time, I thought you were just dropped. Love ya’!
I know…It’s hard to imagine that, given the head trauma, the years of pot smoking and the excessive drinking, I’ve managed to lose more brain cells than most people start out with and am still able to edit for typos.
5:05 pm on August 19th, 2008
BURN!!!!!!!! LMAO!!
Yep anything to fight THE MAN…
5:21 pm on August 19th, 2008
Over and over again, the sentiment “murder is murder†is expressed. But, it’s not. Murder, in this case, is actually murder+, because it was racially-charged. In America, killing someone because they’re the right kind of different is far worse than killing someone because they had money or because they screwed your wife. I think 3rd degree murder is a reasonable charge. I’m honestly surprised that it wasn’t dropped to manslaughter, but, given the controversy, I doubt the judge would have allowed that, even if the evidence necessitated such a charge. Either way, the hate crime enhancement that’s been tacked on is a load of shit, in my opinion. After all, murder is murder, right?
Athena, I have a big problem with hate crime laws and the seemingly random way in which they are applied, what I can’t grasp is reading how this disgusting killing played out and then immediately proceeding to get offended by…the fact that a hate-crime charge was tacked on to the charges. That is what struck you most about this story?
Maybe the hate crime charge itself is bullshit, but the racial motivation does speak to intent and the viciousness of the attack. And I think it’s more than enough to obliterate the benefit of the doubt that would have to come with a manslaughter charge in this case.
The thing that really bothers me about the illegal immigration issue is the virulence of its loudest opponents. They swear up and down that it’s only about that “piece of paper,” as Morbid put it, the legality, but I call bullshit on that. There is just too much hatred coming from too many opponents of illegal immigration. Not all, but certainly many. And some of it is just downright ignorance. If someone had asked those assholes if they were against illegal immigration before this attack, they would have said yes, but what they were really against is brown people. Like others here have said, they didn’t know if he was illegal or not. It just makes me fucking sick. Does the fact that Mexicans are crossing the border illegally really affect these people’s daily lives as much as, say, the tanking economy? I don’t think so.
5:44 pm on August 19th, 2008
Damn, Imp. Athena done went and called you out.
5:49 pm on August 19th, 2008
Athena, I have a big problem with hate crime laws and the seemingly random way in which they are applied, what I can’t grasp is reading how this disgusting killing played out and then immediately proceeding to get offended by…the fact that a hate-crime charge was tacked on to the charges. That is what struck you most about this story?
Oh, I’m sorry, Veronica – are my sensitivities not up to your standard? I’ll see what I can do about that.
In the meantime, I’ll point out that this case probably wouldn’t have made it past the local news if it weren’t for the racial tones. The hate crime legislation aspect is a big part of that. There are hundreds of cases of people dying as the result of getting jumped that we never even hear about, or disregard as being unfortunate but common. The only reason people seem to care about this one is because it’s politically and racially charged.
Is my focus on hate crime legislation somehow worse than your apparent focus on the illegal immigration aspect of this case?
5:56 pm on August 19th, 2008
I know I am not the only Latin person frequenting this site so I’ll give my 2 cents and take it as you please.
I was born in this country and I am proud to call myself an American. On the same token, I am proud to be a Latina. I am not going to pretend and say I don’t have any issues about illegal immigration. This much I know is true. Latino’s, Hispanic’s, we are survivors. We will work hard to make a buck and will take the shit jobs to provide for our family. I live in a town with a good deal of Latinos, African American’s, Whites and some Asian. I can say I have NEVER seen a Mexican begging on the roadways…NEVER. Come to think of it never an Asian either. Just saying a Mexican is more likely to find a way to make a buck through opportunity rather than to steal. Yes, I know folks there are a good deal of fucktards as is true with any race.
Now, I don’t want to stray too far from the real subject, so…
There are so many things wrong with what happened to this young man. Firstly, he’s a human being that was attacked with hateful and vicious intent motivated by racism. Secondly, he was rendered helpless and was STILL beat mercilessly, why, because of hate and ignorance. Thirdly, this person died due to the attack that was not provoked. Their intention may have not been to kill him but the end result is just the same. On this site we are constantly reading about people who are different and or helpless and they die because of something they cannot help being.
What come to mind are babies and children and the mentally and physically impaired? You are thinking he is none of these. Well, I beg to differ. He was someones baby who grew into a child then a young man who obviously wanted better for his life and that is why he was likely in the states. He was mentally and physically impaired when he was knocked unconscious and still beaten simply because he is different.
We all live in a world that is in an embarrassing state; motivated by ignorance & hate. Every day people are dying because they are different and a good deal of them just want to be left alone and make a better life for themselves. Why then, please do tell, is this any different?
Are we so far gone in a society so self-absorbed and riddled with hate that all we can really think is glad it wasn’t me or my family. If we could just stop being so damn selfish and give a shit about the person next to us, be it white, black, Latin, Chinese, handicapped or just helpless, (to all those babies and children that have died), maybe just the Fuck maybe, we have a chance to look back on our world as a society and be proud that we overcame hate.
To me this is all about hate. It matters not that he was an illegal immigrant I think it is more about race & simply that he was different. To the young men who caused this tragic death, GO FUCK YOURSELVES!
Rest in peace Luis Ramirez.
p.s. thank you Morbid for posting this and making it front page
6:00 pm on August 19th, 2008
Damn, Imp. Athena done went and called you out.
Imp wrote this article? You’ve been framed! By one of your own, no less!
6:14 pm on August 19th, 2008
Whomever wrote the freak’n article & posted. THANK YOU!
6:28 pm on August 19th, 2008
Whatever, dent-head. If you had actually edited this article for me, you would have seen that I misspelled the word “deity” and fixed it. If you did edit this article and missed it, lay off the wine! Mwuah!
You’re welcome.
6:38 pm on August 19th, 2008
Whatever, dent-head. If you had actually edited this article for me, you would have seen that I misspelled the word “deity†and fixed it. If you did edit this article and missed it, lay off the wine! Mwuah!
Your welcome.
Touche, old friend. Apparently, the “out” instead of “our” and the “aslo” jumped out at me more clearly. But, to make up for my slackage, I’ll take care of that “Your” for you.
6:42 pm on August 19th, 2008
Touche!
6:45 pm on August 19th, 2008
Didn’t the “:heart:” used to work out here?
The damn emoticons keep changing on me. I can’t keep up!
7:29 pm on August 19th, 2008
Sorry for the above double post. Thought I was editing my typos. Anybody wanna remove my first? Thanks.
9:10 pm on August 19th, 2008
How ignorant is that? The issue here is murder of a ‘Latino’ because he was a ‘Latino’, he just turned out to be an illegal one. I doubt that they checked his paperwork before making the decision to beat the crap out of him. I agree with her statement about the tax dollars, etc, I have very strong opinions about that, but I also have very strong opinions about cold blooded murderers, which these boys obviously are. I can’t believe this bitch and others are trying to justify this because he was ‘illegal’.
Here in Prince William, Va., we’ve had similar tension because our county decided to crackdown on illegals. I totally support that crackdown, but resent when others want to call it ‘hate’ and ‘predjudice’ when it’s not that at all. They’re ILLEGAL dammit. But I would never support something like this. This is sad and I hope to hell these boys don’t get away with this.
9:37 pm on August 19th, 2008
Amen. If the victim had been an illegal Canadian immigrant (and they’re out there), this would never have been an issue.
I do think so. It’s not all intent. Those guys who shake the baby didn’t intend for the baby to die, but that’s what happens when you shake a baby. They probably didn’t even intend to hurt the baby at all. But at a certain point people have to take responsibility for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of their actions. If you kick somebody in the head (even just once, much less multiple times over a couple of minutes), you know there is a good chance you could kill them. You know if you shake a baby, you could kill it. You know that if you take a pain reliever and pass out, and you have no child safety doorknob covers, your three year old could be found wandering the street, even if having the cops see your shit-filled house is not your intention.
9:43 pm on August 19th, 2008
This article made me feel ill. No, a hate crime always makes things worse. Much worse. These Neanderthal idiots deserve to rot in jail for the rest of their days. These are not humans, they’re animals.
10:03 pm on August 19th, 2008
Oh, I’m sorry, Veronica – are my sensitivities not up to your standard? I’ll see what I can do about that.
Huh? This doesn’t even make sense, you could conceivably take this attitude with everyone who disagrees with you on this site. I’m not sure what triggered it here.
I don’t think your focus is better or worse than mine, it’s not about that. The difference, IMO, is that my concern about attitudes toward illegal immigration stems from this attack itself and the reasons why this man is most likely dead, not from concern for the fairness shown toward his killers. Is that still a valid issue? Of course, and neither of us is right or wrong from an objective standpoint. It’s just a discussion but people tend to get pretty riled up on this site, isn’t that the way it is? Why single me out as if I’m some sort of uptight, knee-jerk dumbass?
In the meantime, I’ll point out that this case probably wouldn’t have made it past the local news if it weren’t for the racial tones. The hate crime legislation aspect is a big part of that. There are hundreds of cases of people dying as the result of getting jumped that we never even hear about, or disregard as being unfortunate but common. The only reason people seem to care about this one is because it’s politically and racially charged.
Not sure what your point is here–I thought that’s one of the main reasons why we all come to DD, because they cover stories you don’t hear about in the MSM. We don’t hear about every instance of someone being jumped, that’s true, but people here do care about things that wouldn’t even faze a lot of people.
And when it comes right down to it, yes I do think the racial hatred issue makes this more relevant than some bar fight. It speaks to a wider societal problem, not just the violent behavior of individuals. Yes, violence itself is also a societal problem, but the motivation behind this particular killing does distinguish it for better or worse.
10:23 pm on August 19th, 2008
Still a murder no ifs and or buts about it.
10:37 pm on August 19th, 2008
I know that his immigration status isn’t the issue here and yes, chances are very good that it wouldn’t have mattered one way or the other if he had been here legally.
I didn’t realize that, thank you for correcting me.
Obviously I’m very much against illegal immigration and I won’t apologize for that.
12:15 am on August 20th, 2008
Note to self: Next time I wanna kick the shit out of someone, ask to see some American citizenship papers first. :/
1:53 am on August 20th, 2008
Seems like a case of pack mentality to me. These Jr Douche Bags felt all big and strong taking on one guy with a 13 year old girl. Real tough ass clowns. I hope some one has explained the white/latin ratio in the average state pin to these twinkle dicks. We’ll see how they like being the minority. I see a shank in somebodys future! Don’t drop the soap boys!
2:24 am on August 20th, 2008
I bet I know what would have happen if this guy wasnt walking with this little girl, could have easily turned into a gang bang. I just wish neither of them where there. But sooner or later these assholes would have found someone to kill, I bet their parents are so proud.
2:35 am on August 20th, 2008
Learn spanish before you go to prison cocksuckers. You might be able to beg bitch duty instead of the shank when you get in. Might want to start practicing your dick sucking skills now boys.
7:13 am on August 20th, 2008
I grew up in this area. It used to be a prosperous area with many textile mills and clothing factories. The American companies sold out to other American companies that dumped the previous workers and hired all new people who would work for less money and smaller benefit packages, mostly Mexican, that seemingly came from out of the blue. I do not think that was a coincidence. There were rumors that the companies brought the new workers in, but in Pa. we don’t bite the hand that feeds, but rather lash out randomly. Racial tensions are high and combine that with small town small mindedness and this is what you get.
I was also assaulted by a group of “all American” football players, so I completely understand the pack mentality that goes with it. I hate football.
11:28 am on August 20th, 2008
I do think so. It’s not all intent. Those guys who shake the baby didn’t intend for the baby to die, but that’s what happens when you shake a baby. They probably didn’t even intend to hurt the baby at all. But at a certain point people have to take responsibility for the reasonably foreseeable consequences of their actions. If you kick somebody in the head (even just once, much less multiple times over a couple of minutes), you know there is a good chance you could kill them. You know if you shake a baby, you could kill it. You know that if you take a pain reliever and pass out, and you have no child safety doorknob covers, your three year old could be found wandering the street, even if having the cops see your shit-filled house is not your intention.
But if intent is essentially irrelevant, why differentiate between murder and manslaughter at all? A lot of these scenarios you reference would draw a manslaughter charge in many states. As I’m sure you are aware, manslaughter is recklessness or negligence that results in somebody’s death, but generally lacks intent to murder.
I doubt it’ll happen in this case, but there have been cases lost to such distinctions – cases where the DA overreaches, looking for that murder conviction, and ends up getting the defendant acquitted due to a lack of clear intent. I’d hate to see that happen, here. Of course, I wouldn’t be surprised if they pled down to manslaughter, anyway.
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