NEW ALBANY, Ind. - Here is a story I am a bit conflicted with because of some of my opinions in regards to our current school system and how unruly children, or children who are unable to interact with other kids without disrupting the classes they are in. See, 5-year-old Gabriel Ross took a hidden tape recorder to school, on behalf of his parents, after months of explaining to them that his teacher, S. Ellen Jones Elementary teacher Kristen Woodward, was mean to him. What they caught was Mrs. Jones verbally berating the 5-year-old in front of his class.
In case you didn’t watch the video, some of the choice snippets are:
“You’ve punished everyone in this building with your behavior. Everyone has been affected by your nasty behavior. Everyone. Cafeteria workers, the monitors, the art teacher, music teacher … ten people in this building you have tormented and tortured for 149 days. I’m done.”
“You’ve been ignorant, selfish, self-absorbed, the whole thing.”
At one point, she even addresses the class stating “He has made every wrong choice possible and he has had more help to make right choices and he has chose not to.” and then asks the class “So you guys think, is that somebody you want to be with?” The class answers in unison, “Noooo.”
Kristen Woodward is now on paid administrative leave, and Gabriel’s parents took him out of the school the day after hearing the tape.
Of course, this all just sounds terrible for the kid…but then it also seems as if little Gabriel has a daily behavior folder full of all kinds of crap about him talking continuously, not having a good day, interrupting the class, etc. I do not know this boy’s parents, but I know of some with kids like Gabriel. Kids who disrupt classrooms day after day leaving a teacher with no recourse aside from telling the parents…who do nothing about it. I am not sure this is the case here, but The Indiana State Teachers Association is standing up for Woodward. She has been teaching for 13 years and they say the school system went too far with the suspension and didn’t give Woodward a fair chance to give her side of the story.
I would love to hear it. I already have pretty good idea what she is going to say if it is not a carefully written response by her lawyer. I would guess that she was at the end of her rope dealing with a kid who would not allow her to do her job for 149 days and without any avenue left to take in order to resolve the situation. Anyone want to bet that the t4eacher has been in contact with the parents on numerous occasions?
I love this part…the step-father says that recorder he got his son to carry in his pants pocket one day was a smart investment. Now he hopes to get someone smart to help his son’s psyche.
“We seriously need to find somebody to talk with Gabriel to see if he’s alright, because this experience for 149 days - as far as I’m concerned that’s how long it went on.”
I wonder if the teacher should have done the same. Show the parents what she is dealing with on a daily basis. Maybe help the parents find somebody to talk to Gabriel..not for his psyche, but to find out why he cannot do what the majority of his classmates do and shut the fuck up. But hey, that’s just me. What do you guys think? Am I wrong here? Is the teacher out of line? Does Gabriel need to be separated from his class mates and placed in a separate class with other kids like him like they used to do when I went to school?
79 responses so far ↓
Pages: [1] 2 » Show All
1
kratesis
May 28, 2008 at 2:01 pm -I’m mixed on this one. Some of the reports I have read stated he was a high functioning autistic…. ok well he obviously has behavior/attention problems whether or not he has a disability…. BUT…. I would like to know how the teacher has handled it over the school year… Was the only contact to the parents through his notebook? Do they have a program for kids with learning disabilities???? Too many questions at this point to place blame for me!
2
Miss. Hill
May 28, 2008 at 2:13 pm -No matter what the issue was the teacher shouldn’t have humiliated him in front of his peers. I believe doing this, if this child has been a disruption for 149 days would only instigate more outbursts or misbehaving.
If the teacher has gone to the parents on more then 1 occasion and nothing was being resolved or at least an attempt at correcting the behaviour then the teacher should have brought in the guidance councilor and school psychologists and put the child in a different classroom where a teacher can have more one on one with this child.
It seems to me he may need testing to see if he has a learning disability or ADHD if he is a constant disruption.
I still do not condone humiliating the child and getting his peers to go along with shunning him! There must be other ways of dealing with these situations when or if parents are uncooperative.
3
michelle
May 28, 2008 at 2:20 pm -Don’t like the public humiliation, however, as human beings we can all reach our breaking point. The other kids were all in agreement apparently. Need more info but I am gonna side with the teacher for now. I may change my mind as the story unfolds. Too bad the teacher didn’t record all her interactions with the kid, parents & administrators etc….
4
LL44
May 28, 2008 at 2:30 pm -Teacher weighing in here…
I’m not fond of the public humiliation… all teachers do it, but most only mildly. HOWEVER, if this teacher has it all documented that this kid was a persistent problem & the parents were uncooperative and she couldn’t get any help…. well… we are all only human, teachers included! And in all honestly…. none of what she said above offends me as a parent, or a teacher….maybe I have thick skin?
I have worked for 3 yrs at a low-income, high needs school & have had many many frustrating days - parents who truly do not give a crap about their kids or their education, and kids who have zero respect for anyone or anything. It has been a trying, ehausting experience for me. That being said, some of my most rewarding experiences have been at this school too.
I think your tolerance level is what sets the tone - how much you can put up with. Maybe if this kid was such a pain, she should’ve taken some paid sick leave, make adminstration sit up & pay attention to why this teacher is so stressed that she needs a break.
To me, sounds like stepdad knew the kid was a shit & teacher was beyond frustrated & they set the whole thing up hoping for a payday. The kid obviously knew what buttons to push, and did it with a tape recorder in his pocket. Some days I’d love to video how kids act at school & show it to their parents…. IF I thought it would make any difference.
5
Ashley22H
May 28, 2008 at 2:40 pm -As a mother….I believe this mother of the child should have stepped in a long time ago and talked with the teacher and the school about her child’s behavior and steps to resolve it. Obviously, from the child’s behavior folder…there was fair and ample warnings that the child’s behavior was not acceptable. I know that many parents send their children to school and have nothing to do with their child’s progress in the school. Many parents think of the school and teachers as simply babysitters and don’t care how the child behaves or if they do well in school. Teachers put up with so many things throughout the school year and disruptive children that the parents of these children will not step in and figure out solutions for their child. They depend on the teachers and the school to deal with these situations…which in actuality it falls on the parents to take care of their children.
It is true that this teacher should not have said these things to the child….but I’m interested to know what has happened for the past 149 days and the story behind this. There are many facts that aren’t being told right now and I can bet that the parents are somewhat to blame. This teacher was at her wits end with this child and there must be an explanation as to why she was. Parents want the schools and teachers to teach their children and have them act like acceptable children….but what bothers me is when a teacher is trying her best and the parents do nothing to modify this situation if a child is acting unruly. When a teacher or school finally takes the steps to correct these situations….usually these parents will then start complaining when they had nothing to say before about the situation. It’s amazing how parents will complain about situations or consequences for their child when they wouldn’t do anything before it came to those resolutions.
I was a daycare provider for a while….and I know dealing with parents on a daily basis about their children can sometimes be very difficult. Some parents could care less about their child’s behavior and success in life. These children tend to be the ones that act up and don’t succeed in school because they don’t have the support system at home with the parents helping and discipling (sp) them. I have ample respect for teachers, daycare providers, and others who work with children because of what they deal with and the behaviors of children and the parents of these children because usually they don’t do anything to correct these situations. I have always said….it’s not the children that are difficult to deal with…it’s their parents because it ultimately is the parent’s responsibilty to take care of their child. A child is just acting simply like a child and can not be blamed. It is their parent’s job to raise them and make sure they are acting like an acceptable child and doing what they are supposed to do in school and every other situation they are in. I know from experience that parents can sometimes be clueless on how to raise their children.
I’ll be interested to know more facts to this story before I make a judgement on the teacher, the child, and the parents. There are too many missing facts right now to decide who is to blame. But like I said…yes the teacher shouldn’t have handled it like she did….but why did it come to this is the question?!?
Sorry about the novel comment…but this really sparked a fire in me because of personal experiences with parents.
6
Kathy
May 28, 2008 at 2:53 pm -This kid is only 5. There is no reason to berate the kid. Also, the other kids are definitely agree with the teacher. 5 year olds are still very eager to please figures of authority. If this child was THAT disruptive, the administration should have been handling it. It should have been taken out of the teachers hands a long time ago.
7
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 2:57 pm -Absolutely, this kid is 5 not 15. This is his first school experience. She was a 13 year teacher, she never had a disruptive kid? She has developed an “itch” with this kid, or perhaps his parents, but either way it was sooooooooooo very wrong and unprofessional to handle it this way.
I side with the kid all the way. Either he was disruptive and his parents didn’t do anything to correct it - not his fault, the parents or she’s found her one to pick on this year.
I have my own story to this one, her name Coleen Campbell, 5th grade teacher. At the time of our conflict, she had been teaching around 15-16 years - seasoned. My crime and I’m guilty as hell, I was a tomboy. Girls are supposed to act a certain way. It started on the VERY FIRST day of 5th grade. We went to PE. I went with the boys to play football. She stroked. We had a discussion about what girls were supposed to act like and what sports were acceptable for girls to play. She talked about what kind of person I was for even wanting to play. I didn’t fight back too much that day. I went home and had my mother write a note giving me permission to play football, baseball and any other activity in PE. My mother also noted to the bitch, that I had played on the little league team and was a “starter” for the past two years.
When I presented her with my note, she then began saying things about what kind of mother I had. Shit hit the fan on day two. It was all down hill from there. She was mean to me every chance she got. She humiliated me every chance she got. She made up lies on me. She tried everything to get me kicked out of school. It all failed. I was an honor roll student, with praises from ALL previous teachers - then her. Luckily, we did have a principal who had a little sense.
It was the worst year of my school career. We fought to the bitter end. The point to all of that, ole Campbitch, was a seasoned teacher, a respected teacher, but I was the one thorn in her side that she could not keep from picking at. She instigated 90% of our trouble - the other 10% pure payback, baby!
When I was just about to turn 15, I went back to what was, at one time, called a “Halloween Carnival” at the school. I walked right up to Campbitch where she was taking money, for the “Cutest Baby” and “Witch” and I said, “I nominate you as the supreme witch of the land!” She had to accept my money and my shit and write her name on the list for canidate of witch. She quickly replied, “Well, XXXXX, if you want me to win, you’ll have to put about $25 with your nickel to nominate me.” I replied by saying, “You think I would spend $25 on your sorry ass for you to win? I didn’t even spend a nickel, its the thought that counts!” She had me thrown out for using profanity (ass). It was soooooooooooooo worth it.
Later in life, she must have had a conscious check, though. She saw my mom at one of our department stores and asked, “Did XXXXX ever forgive me?” My mom told her a short NO and walked away from her.
Some kids are disruptive, but at this boys age, the boys parents are to blame for not correcting the situation. Some kids are just tomboys with prissy teachers. Now, it is crazy to believe that a good teacher cannot run across the one child that just chaps their ass to no end and that the teacher will not or cannot act in a bad manner. Teachers have bad days, too and they have people that just rub them the wrong way. She should have conducted herself in a more professional manner, what ever the case may have been. I will say that had that been my 5 year old, bitch would have visited the hospital. Also, I’ll add, if my kid were disrupting class, I would address the situation, promptly.
8
solange822001
May 28, 2008 at 3:00 pm -That is horrible. He is FIVE people. If she wants to take out her frustration, take it out on the parents. Unfortunately, as a teacher, the reality is there are going to be some kids with less than stellar parents. You need to find another way to handle it. Are you going to tell me that this teacher is the only teacher with a problem child in the class? Many, if not all teachers have this same problem yet find a way to deal with it. My son has ADHD, and I would get some of those complaints from his teachers, but I have to commend them, they did their very best. Mind you, I was involved and did everything I could to get the behavior problems to stop, and maybe these parents didnt, but still, I am sure there was many a time when my son’s teachers wanted to pull their hair out. There is sort of support group at the school which I would go to meetings with, which included the teacher, the school psychologist, and a couple others which I dont remember what their titles were. Was there something like this at this school? I agree too that there is more info that we should know, but I don’t see myself jumping to the defense of the teacher any time soon.
9
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 3:05 pm -Better put than that book I wrote. I really don’t know what caused it, but when a 5 year old can make you act so rash, after 13 years of teaching - well, you need to change careers or at the very least, go after the parents who should be working with you not the 5 year old. Go to the administration. There were other avenues to take besides public humiliation of a 5 year old.
When all is out, I’d be willing to bet, we as a group decide the parents should have given a shit a lot sooner about the child’s education. I think we will wind up faulting the parents the most. The teacher still could have handled it differently.
10
solange822001
May 28, 2008 at 3:07 pm -BTW< when i first saw this story, I thought it was this one:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories.....0288.shtml
Kid was voted out of kindergarten, same story basically. Going on right here in Florida, check it out guys
11
funkmama
May 28, 2008 at 3:13 pm -I do not have mixed emotions about this one. The teacher did not handle this situation professionally at all! Ok, there is a 5 year old boy. He is ADHD, probably, and can’t seem to stop talking or interrupting the class… any normal teacher would contact the parents, as she probably did, and reccommend that the child go through some testing so the child could get diagnosed and put on proper meds… if meds are not the way to go, then let the child take “special” classes where he can get some one-on-one attention, and train the child to control his impulses. This woman is nothing more than a big 5 year old herself and has no place in education. That poor child could have lasting emotional damage because of the things that this so-called “adult” said to him. He will probably have a self-esteem problems and trouble fitting in as he gets older. Children are not born good. Parents, care-givers, and teachers all have critical roles is disciplining and forming our childrens values and behavior. If this is the kind of “teacher” our school systems are hiring, it makes me seriously consider homeschooling.
She gets a big F in my book….. FUCKTARD!
12
solange822001
May 28, 2008 at 3:16 pm -Oh my god, I just watched the video to the story I linked, and I had to point this out because it is just so evil:
After the teacher asked the students to vote whether Alex could stay in kindergarten or not, and they voted him out 14 to 2, she asked him “Well, where are you going to go?” And the little guy said “I’ll go in the office and sit with the principle”, and the teacher said “Well they dont want you there either”.
I would kill her if she said that to my kid. Imagine how that kid felt thinking that he was about to get kicked out of class and had nowhere to go.
Also, the fact that both these stories are about kids in kindergarten arent a coincidence. This is the most trying time for many kids and parents. For many kids, this will be their first time in an organized setting. This is the time when many disabilities are first discovered, and it’s not something that gets resolved overnight, no matter how hard the parents may try. The more I think about, the more I say screw these two teachers. And god bless the rest of the kindergarten teachers who deal with this same thing every day and manage to help our kids grow and learn!
13
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 3:17 pm -I listened to the tape again, I’m sure that if she had done this to my child, purposely showing others “he was not worth their time” and getting other kids to basically say they “didn’t even want to be around him” - I would have hurt her physically, for a long time, like until I couldn’t punch her in her cruel mouth any longer because I couldn’t lift my arms.
I was a school bus driver for a few years and truer words have never been spoken than, its not the kids its the parents. I guess that is my whole point to all of this - she should have been addressing the parents not a 5 year old. She could have went to the administration. She acted more childish than the boy, by getting his peers (5-6 year olds) to side with her about what kind of person he was. If I listen to the tape one more time, I could actually become enraged at the woman. THIS BOY WAS 5!!
14
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 3:22 pm -Solange822001 - after your clip, I most certainly side with the children. Both those teachers need to be out on their asses - wondering who would hire or want to work with their sorry asses. How traumatic would it be for them? Not nearly as traumatic as it was to those 5 year olds.
15
SNOOKIE
May 28, 2008 at 3:45 pm -I don’t care if he acted up or not -she is a teacher for God’s sake. If she can’t handle kids get a different flippin job-if some dumbass like that EVER talked to my child like that, I’d beat her ass!
16
missanthropic
May 28, 2008 at 3:47 pm -Eh, this is a tough one. However, I still find no excuse to treat a 5 year old like that, especially in front of their peers. If the teacher did in fact try to reach out to the parents about the behavior of their son, then I think they are the ones who deserved to be publicly humiliated.
Judging on how the dad said it was a “good investment,” I’m betting these parents are assholes. She should have handled it differently though.
17
Sir Geoff
May 28, 2008 at 4:00 pm -The parents should have made sure the kid got into a special class. This is one of those “my kid may be a distruptive ADHD brat, but he’s gonna be in the regular kids class.” I remember being one of the “good kids”, yet never learned much in some classes because the teacher had to put up with brats and miscreants constantly disrupting the class! That’s what happens when you force teachers to teach all children the same way!
18
solange822001
May 28, 2008 at 4:05 pm -Exactly what “special class” are you referring too Sir Geoff? My son has ADHD, and we were never told about a “special class”. And he goes to one of the best public schools in Miami.
19
funkmama
May 28, 2008 at 4:15 pm -Most of the time ADHD doesn’t qualify for special classes because ADHD is highly functional and usually comes hand in hand with a higher IQ… But you can ask the school board if you are genuinely interested. South Carolina schools have a class called “Challenge” for kids like this. It gives them a chance to get out of the classroom and they participate in group projects that usually are pretty difficult and require group work. The best part is, the kids dont know its for ADHD… they think its a “smart kids class” so your child won’t be picked on. I don’t know if FL has anything like this but it couldn’t hurt to find out.
20
asjma
May 28, 2008 at 4:25 pm -Hi, I’m new to posting. Although I’ve been lurking for awhile….
Now, as a parent w/a child with ADD not ADHD I understand what alot of you are referring to. We have also experienced a teacher who has no tolerance for dealing with my childs special needs. As a parent, it is not always as simple as having meetings with the teacher and principal. They can be very defensive and not “appreciate” our involvement.
But for me it all boils down to this. Five y.o. are notorious for not being able to control themselves. He is 5 and she is supposed to be the professional. So it is her responsiblity to control herself. I know everybody has bad days but she should have taken a smoke break.
21
Old Man Metal
May 28, 2008 at 4:26 pm -All in all, you’re just another brick in the wall.
22
asjma
May 28, 2008 at 4:27 pm -Hi, I’m still new to posting. Although I’ve been lurking for awhile….
Now, as a parent w/a child with ADD not ADHD I understand what alot of you are referring to. We have also experienced a teacher who has no tolerance for dealing with my childs special needs. As a parent, it is not always as simple as having meetings with the teacher and principal. They can be very defensive and not “appreciate” our involvement.
But for me it all boils down to this. Five y.o. are notorious for not being able to control themselves. He is 5 and she is supposed to be the professional. So it is her responsiblity to control herself. I know everybody has bad days but she should have taken a smoke break.
23
asjma
May 28, 2008 at 4:31 pm -oops sorry for the double post, i was trying to fix the first sentence in the first one. Doh!
24
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 4:38 pm -One other thing that I honestly believe factors in is: the fact most kids go to daycare or preschool before they hit this age and already know to sit still and not interupt the teacher.
What about the kids FORTUNATE enough to stay with mom or a relative and not have to go to daycare? Most parents don’t have a classroom setting or any of the expectations. My son learned to respect nature, people, life in general. He learned his ABC’s, his colors, how to color, shapes, about the outdoors, how to write his name and address, his phone number and much more way before he went to Kindergarten. At no point, can I recall teaching him how a classroom works and the expectations. Was that his fault?
My son came home after his first couple of days in Kindergarten and asked, “Why do I have to sit around all day? Why don’t they show us how to do stuff? And did you know they make us take naps, Mama?” I explained, “….they were showing him how to do stuff with his brain and that his body had to sit still so his brain could learn how to work.
We had been learning all kinds of stuff at home, but not how to sit still for basically 6 hours a day. Kindergarten is a learning experience on how to behave for the rest of your education. Its a stepping stone into education not the grade that determines if you will go to Harvard.
The teacher should remember that she is the beginning of his and other students school careers and that her actions would greatly influence how the children will view schooling from here on out. She should most certainly realize this since she’s been there 13 years. I would already hate the teachers at my new school if I were this boy, just for the simple fact, I would assume the next teacher would treat me the same.
She’s jaded him at 5, into believing school sucks and teachers are the enemy. I’d wager this will have long lasting effects on this boy’s education, if for no other reason than the mistrust of teachers and authority figures.
The more this weighs on my mind, the angrier I get. I want to kick her ass for this boy, myself.
25
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 4:39 pm -Welcome ASJMA.
26
Hippiepoet
May 28, 2008 at 4:42 pm -I’m so fucking lucky I was able to home school my daughter from 1st-4th grades. I’m home schooling my son for Kindergarten and maybe 1st grade.
I understand problematic kids, fuck I was one. If this child had problems and IF the teacher had notified them and exhausted all resources on solving this problem, it STILL does not okay what she did. I would not want a teacher and an entire classroom of students all “ganging” up on my child, and that’s surely what I would call what she did. Problems or not, we’re still talking about a 5 yr old child. Her behavior was inappropriate as a professional teacher.
27
SoUncool
May 28, 2008 at 4:51 pm -So I had this great post and it disappeared. Bottom line: I think the teacher and fellow students had HAD it with him being a brat. I think the parents KNEW he was being a brat and didn’t do anything. I want to hear the teacher’s side. As a good parent, I would have stepped in and solved the problem after the first week of hearing the teacher was “mean” to him and after the first few notes of bad behavior sent home. There was obviously a problem that THEY didn’t do anything about. I bet the teacher tried and tried to get it resolved.
28
thepooh5
May 28, 2008 at 4:55 pm -Yeah, I have to agree the parents should have taken action sooner and not allowed it to go for 149 days. Like I said, I feel we will wind up blaming the parents. It WILL NOT excuse her behavior to the 5 year old child, no matter what the parents did or did not do, as it were.
29
Morbid
May 28, 2008 at 4:56 pm -But in the teacher’s defense, she may have taken 149 smoke breaks. She may have attempted to take every avenue at her legal disposal to stop having the education of her entire classroom interrupted by one child. What you heard on the tape recording on that day, may have just been her new way of trying to stop a re-occurring issue.
They used to have a separate class when I grew up, specifically for children like this. It allowed them to still attend and interact with children in a public school, without compromising the education of the 30+ other children in the class.
Welcome to the site, btw.
30
jenjen0135
May 28, 2008 at 5:07 pm -I think I am going to side with the teacher as well. As inappropriate as the verbal abuse was, we don’t really know what all she, and the class have bee thru with this kid.
For the last 2 years, my daughter has had the same teacher at her school (looping). This year they stuck some moronic 7 year old kid-off-meds into her class that routinely tore up the classroom, including items that were personally bought by the teacher, along with other students classwork, just whatever was in the hellions path. He has cussed, thrown chairs, and a host of other things I am sure my daughter hasn’t told me!
God forbid they send this kid to the alternative school here in our county and make his “foster” parents have to put him on a different bus. None of the other teachers could “handle” him either.
ALL because the teacher was senior (had the most experience). The teacher has had this happen numerous times over the last few years, apparently because she is leaving the school for one “closer to her home”, for the next school year.
31
jenjen0135
May 28, 2008 at 5:12 pm -I tried to edit and it screwed up!!!
AGAIN:
I think I am going to side with the teacher as well. As inappropriate as the verbal abuse was, we don’t really know what all she, and the class have been thru with this kid.
For the last 2 years, my daughter has had the same teacher at her school (looping). This year they stuck some moronic 7 year old kid-off-meds into her class that routinely tore up the classroom, including items that were personally bought by the teacher, along with other students classwork, just whatever was in the hellions path. He has cussed, thrown chairs, and a host of other things I am sure my daughter hasn’t told me!
God forbid they send this kid to the alternative school here in our county and make his “foster” parents have to put him on a different bus. None of the other teachers could “handle” him either.
ALL because the teacher was senior (had the most experience). The teacher has had this happen numerous times over the last few years, apparently because she is leaving the school for one “closer to her home”, for the next school year.
These kids shouldn’t have to be scared that moron kid is going to go off at any time, and the teacher can’t possibly be able to teach at her full capacity to all the kids if she is constantly struggling with ONE child.
This teacher felt so bad, and was so worried that her kids wouldn’t pass the standardized tests (CRCT’s)–THAT is a whole other rant for me…
32
WryBread
May 28, 2008 at 5:38 pm -I think this situation has developed as the end result of a lot of trends.
Teachers do not get the support they need from the administration. I believe teachers need the threat of giving a spanking — this holds a lot of kids in line.
Mainstreaming kids with emotional or physical or mental problems is not always the easy, fun answer it was presented to be, especially when school resources are not expanded adequately to meet the increased work involved.
Parents don’t understand that the way a kid behaves at home is how she/he is going to act in public, so they get used to crap behavior because they love him/her. Then they are surprised that that behavior is considered unlikeable by others.
In this case it seems the kid was acting out, the teacher fed up and without options, the parents clueless. It also seems the teacher has gone way beyond sanity in talking to a child, the kid was trying to get help by telling his parents of her behavior, and the parents are now indignant and claiming that if you tell a kid he’s bad, he will be. This latter is the statement that parents in denial make all the time.
So, plenty to blame to go around. Need more information before it can be apportioned.
33
SqueakyClean
May 28, 2008 at 5:43 pm -Agreed. This little guy didn’t even know what hit him.
15 year olds, on the other hand, should all be severely beaten. Especially ones who show up here and defend people who put babies in car trunks.
34
solange822001
May 28, 2008 at 6:15 pm -I think a lot of us (myself probably included) are judging this in accordance with our own personal past experience. In one of these stories (Im not sure if it was the one above or the one I linked), it shows that the main problem was talking too much. NOT throwing chairs, breaking stuff, hitting kids, etc. These are five year old kids, like I said, this is the first time many of them will be in an organized setting. I personally was not happy with the way kindergarten was for my son in general. I thought it was too much pressure and focus on testing and not giving him enough time to adapt to school or to instill a love of learning. That of course, is not the teacher’s fault. I still would like to know what led up to this, what the parents did, etc., before I bash this particular teacher too much. The one in the “voted out of kidnergarten” article though, should be fired asap!
35
WryBread
May 28, 2008 at 6:32 pm -I want to add that I had a couple of teachers who were nuts. One was my gym teacher for six years and went out of her way to make me feel bad. Of course, I hated gym, I have to add, and never learned until far too late that I should have studied dance and would have liked several sports.
The other did worse, she was so crazy that parents were asking why she was allowed to teach. But she was near retirement and was allowed to drift to the end to save her embarrassment. As the new kid in the class who was not good at math, she tormented me daily and helped make me a shy, depressed, withdrawn, insecure child who was frightened of life. I think she was nuts, so I don’t blame her so much, but I hope the people who allowed her to remain in my classroom die screaming.
36
funnymommy
May 28, 2008 at 7:00 pm -My son had behaviour issues and during a meeting with the school’s support staff and his teacher (I was highly involved and trying to get him some sort of assistance), the guidance councelor asked us to list what we felt were his weaknesses. So we went around and everyone who was in contact with him had a chance to point out what negative behaviours and whatnot he had exhibited with them. Then we were asked to point out hus strengths. My son was very, very intelligent (possibly gifted) and we were all stating that, along with his affectionate, sweet nature, his curiosity, his willingness to lend a hand, etc. When it got to his teacher, she began with “Well, he is very intelligent but…” and proceeded to again discuss weaknesses. The guidance councelor said that she had aready said these things and now we were focusing on the positive. She said “Well, I don’t see anything positive about him.” I lost it. I said that this is the woman who is teaching him, that children are perceptive and is she dislikes him, which was evident in her behaviour and her description of him, then how were we supposed to curb these behaviours? He was only living up to he low standard she had set for him. I later discovered that many parents had various issues with that teacher (we live in a very small community; everyone knows everyone) and later that same year, she retired.
That was when my son was in the first grade. The following year, he had a lovely teacher, very ‘old school’ (pun intended), who thought the world of him. He rarely had a bad behaviour report. I had to check this out. I began chatting with the teacher regularly and she was saying that kids are all different; some will not speak at al, others can’t seem to stop. Her appraoch took the individual child’s capabilities into consideration so that the normally rambunctious child would get a star for good behaviour if they, say, sat still during a story, stayed in line on the way to gym class, etc. Because his good behaviour was being reinforced so much and he was no longer being constantly berated, he was doing much, much better. I found it rather interesting that while he was acting up the year before, the school was steady in contact with me, yet not one person called me to say how much he had improved. Only one person from those meetings would approach my boy and tell him how proud she was of him. That bothered me as well.
So now he is finishing up grade 5 with A’s except for gym class (I always tease him that it’s the one class he can’t use his intelligence to get him an A). I know it is frustrating for the teacher; the parents do not have it easy either, but the approach to situation can either exacerbate it or defuse it. Tearing a child down and damaging their self-esteem is not the way to go. It’s like we see here all the time when parents say they hit their crying babies/children. We know that only makes it worse; it seems to be common sense to us. The same applies to this type of situation.
37
funnymommy
May 28, 2008 at 7:01 pm -My son had behaviour issues and during a meeting with the school’s support staff and his teacher (I was highly involved and trying to get him some sort of assistance), the guidance councelor asked us to list what we felt were his weaknesses. So we went around and everyone who was in contact with him had a chance to point out what negative behaviours and whatnot he had exhibited with them. Then we were asked to point out hus strengths. My son was very, very intelligent (possibly gifted) and we were all stating that, along with his affectionate, sweet nature, his curiosity, his willingness to lend a hand, etc. When it got to his teacher, she began with “Well, he is very intelligent but…” and proceeded to again discuss weaknesses. The guidance councelor said that she had aready said these things and now we were focusing on the positive. She said “Well, I don’t see anything positive about him.” I lost it. I said that this is the woman who is teaching him, that children are perceptive and is she dislikes him, which was evident in her behaviour and her description of him, then how were we supposed to curb these behaviours? He was only living up to he low standard she had set for him. I later discovered that many parents had various issues with that teacher (we live in a very small community; everyone knows everyone) and later that same year, she retired.
That was when my son was in the first grade. The following year, he had a lovely teacher, very ‘old school’ (pun intended), who thought the world of him. He rarely had a bad behaviour report. I had to check this out. I began chatting with the teacher regularly and she was saying that kids are all different; some will not speak at al, others can’t seem to stop. Her appraoch took the individual child’s capabilities into consideration so that the normally rambunctious child would get a star for good behaviour if they, say, sat still during a story, stayed in line on the way to gym class, etc. Because his good behaviour was being reinforced so much and he was no longer being constantly berated, he was doing much, much better. I found it rather interesting that while he was acting up the year before, the school was steady in contact with me, yet not one person called me to say how much he had improved. Only one person from those meetings would approach my boy and tell him how proud she was of him. That bothered me as well.
So now he is finishing up grade 5 with A’s except for gym class (I always tease him that it’s the one class he can’t use his intelligence to get him an A). I know it is frustrating for the teacher; the parents do not have it easy either, but the approach to situation can either exacerbate it or defuse it.
38
feisty76
May 28, 2008 at 7:50 pm -Morbid–
Quick question regarding the title, Gabriel Ross is “Only A Lad”, are you referencing Oingo Boingo’s song Only A Lad? Because if you are, that is freaking awesome! They’re one of my favorite bands of all time!
39
Chrissey
May 28, 2008 at 8:19 pm -I don’t condone what the teacher did at all. There are always better ways to handle things than how she did. But, with that said….
It is very possible this kid is just a product of his parents and not very nice to be around. My husband and I have been dealing with something similar with our daughter. She is six and in kindergarten (turned six in January). There is a little boy in her class that is a total puke. He hits, pinches, throws things, cusses like a drunken sailor, and is just horrible to be around. He also just happens to live at the other end of our block. So, we have to put up with him at home as well as at school.
My husband and I both have attempted to talk to his parents. I was met on the porch by his father (holding a beer), belching and saying “that’s my boy.” He seemed proud of his son for being so mean to my daughter. And, this was after his kid took a hammer to my daughter’s bicycle.
I can understand the teacher being at the end of her rope. Especially if the kids parents did nothing about it.
40
yogaluvr
May 28, 2008 at 11:06 pm -This boy might as well be my son. This story breaks my heart because I know how my own son (now almost 17) felt about his OWN behavior. ADHD kids aren’t stupid. They get that they are a disruption and they get that others respond poorly to it. I can tell you that in my experience, there isn’t one thing we could do to make my square peg fit into the round hole. He couldn’t / can’t sit still. Can’t be too close to others, can’t always fight his urge to speak out of turn, etc… He was bullied by kids, of course, but the worst were the parents of the other students in his classrooms, and the teachers. They hated him and he knew it. He knew it when he was 5 and he knows it now. Getting through a day of school for him is like being forced to leave his hand in a pot of boiling water - he can’t get out of it fast enough.
Unfortunately, my son found the “pleasure” of self-medication and uses marijuana regularly and without remorse. He’ll tell anyone who asks “try being me for a day and you’d use whatever it took to settle down at the end of it, too.” Meds made him skinny (more fodder for being picked on), OT and PT helped a little but at age 10, getting pulled out of the classroom multiple times every day only made him feel worse about himself than he already did, so he refused to go. We tried diet, sports, metronome therapy, summer programs with a local hospital that treats kids with sensory integration disorder, counseling, reward systems, etc… At the end of the day though, all that we did was outweighed by the ostracizing, criticism, ridicule and humiliation he suffered at the hands of adults. He was once called a “bastard” by a parent in a classroom.
Frankly, just reading this story makes me sob for that little boy. And for my son. It sucks to be the kid that is out of control - whether your parent’s give a rat’s ass or not.
My own son is now attending an alternative school for just 3 hours a day, trying to manage and fearing for his future. He’s scared to death and feels like a loser. He doesn’t sleep, has few friends (most are just like him) and pretty much wishes he was never born.
Obviously, I’m not in this teacher’s corner, although I totally understand losing control. I’ve done it myself many times. Just today, as a matter of fact. The difference between me and the teacher in this story (and many of the teachers my son had) is that he knows I love him and always will. This teacher needs to apologize (something no one has ever done for my son, although he’s apologized hundreds of times), and re-think her options.
41