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Natasha Hall Said No; Clay Kufner Killed Her

February 18, 2008 by impqueen  

Filed under: Murder-suicide 

Clay KufnerNatasha Hall

 

DELAND, FL — Natasha Hall, 17, said no. She said it more than once. After breaking up with Clay Kufner last NovemberNovember reviewsNovember reviews, Natasha said “no” a lot. But Clay, 19, just kept coming around. And coming around. And calling. And coming around. And calling some more. His Myspace page says “I still looveee you”. Hers says “Natasha doesn’t get mad, she gets EVEN.” Several other MyspaceMySpaceMySpace pages showed Natasha and Clay kissing, looking the happy couple – until November of last year. Now, Natasha’s dead by Clay’s hand; Clay’s dead by his own. And their friends are united in a giant wave of “WTF”.

The breakup was nasty and incomplete. Natasha broke up with Clay last fall, but Clay didn’t think it was over. In fact, Natasha didn’t seem sure it was over. The 911 call logs make that pretty clear.

As far back as July 2007, Natasha’s mom called police, saying that Clay was stalking her daughter. In November, her mother called police again, this time saying that Clay was threatening to bang their door in and was on the porch, screaming threats into the house. In December, Natasha’s mom called police because Clay had gotten mad about an email and beat up Natasha – but Natasha and her mother decided not to press charges, and a police report wasn’t filed.

Two weeks later Natasha’s mother again called 911. She said that Clay was making numerous harassing phone calls to their home. Further, she said that Clay took Natasha to a McDonald’s to talk – Natasha wasn’t agreeable to a reconciliation, so Clay threw ice cream in her face, then chased her into a grocery store and forcefully carried her out. This time a police report was filed.

On January 12th this year cops responded to Natasha’s home after Natasha and her mother got in a fight. Natasha’s mother claims that Natasha was sneaking out to see – guess who – Clay. But not a week later, Clay punched Natasha in the face and split her lip, prompting another police call. Just a few days after that, Natasha called 911 herself, afraid. She said that Clay was banging on her doors and windows and screaming at her because she had gone to a party where there were boys. But on January 15, police allegedly told Natasha that if she kept calling, she’d be arrested along with Clay – so Natasha stopped calling for help.

On Friday, Clay broke into Natasha’s bedroom. There he found the “evidence” he was looking for – a Valentine from another boy.  So Clay went through the caller ID, called the new boyfriend and pretended to be a military recruiter. The new boyfriend then called Natasha to tell her that something was weird and Clay was in her house.  So Natasha and her friend Michelle went to the house.  Why?  I don’t know.

  The girls went into the house and Natasha called Clay out, but he wasn’t inside, so the girls decided to leave and go get some food.   As they were leaving at about 10:30 p.m.,  Clay appeared from around the side of the house, where he’d been lying in wait with a gun.   Michelle says that she opened the front door and yelled to warn Natasha, but Clay started shooting.

“He looked at me and said, “I’m going to fucking kill you. Get the fuck out of here,”Michelle said. “I was going crazy. I couldn’t breathe watching my best friend get shot. I couldn’t help her. I felt helpless and I couldn’t do anything for her.”

Clay shot Natasha in the head first, then yelled at Michelle, who ran.   Then he turned to Natasha again and calmly shot her in the chest.  Nice.  Then Clay shot himself next to his unrequited love.  If there’s an afterlife and Clay is in it, Natasha is going to be severely pissed off.

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Comments

  • penelopejo
    OKAY…I dont think anyone on this site even knows clay i grew up with him he was a good kid sometimes things go wrong..but he was a great guy and no matter what anybody says it cant change how everyone sees him yall see him as a killer we see him as CLAY


    because really, who would want to remember him as a guy who stalked and killed Natasha. Then turned around and killed himself. He wasn't a good boy, man, or whatever else you say, he is a cold blooded murderer and he will be forever remembered as this in my book. So, this isn't a "sometimes things go wrong situation" it's a "i'm so psycho that she can't have anyone else in this life but me." kind of situation. I hope you never have to be in a type of situation that Natasha was in. I hope you can learn from this and realize that not all people you know and love are good people.
  • WOW! I feel so bad for her and her family! This dude is (was) an idiot! I can’t believe that 911 would tell her to quit calling so much!


    Yeah really, I can understand their frustration with her, almost setting herself up for these situations by staying around him, but to tell her she'd be arrested if she called again is not cool. She probably would have called them that day to report an intruder if they had not told her that.
  • tutkill
    OKAY…I dont think anyone on this site even knows clay i grew up with him he was a good kid sometimes things go wrong..but he was a great guy and no matter what anybody says it cant change how everyone sees him yall see him as a killer we see him as CLAY


    ok-I will see him as CRAZY KILLER CLAY -alright with you

    duh
  • OKAY…I dont think anyone on this site even knows clay i grew up with him he was a good kid sometimes things go wrong..but he was a great guy and no matter what anybody says it cant change how everyone sees him yall see him as a killer we see him as CLAY


    actually after re-reading, maybe he was a good kid, but sure was not a good man. Noone has to say anything, if his own actions did not change the way you see him than you are a soulless piece of shit.
  • stephfromtex
    WOW! I feel so bad for her and her family! This dude is (was) an idiot! I can't believe that 911 would tell her to quit calling so much!
  • OKAY…I dont think anyone on this site even knows clay i grew up with him he was a good kid sometimes things go wrong..but he was a great guy and no matter what anybody says it cant change how everyone sees him yall see him as a killer we see him as CLAY


    umm o.k. good for you
  • snb245
    OKAY...I dont think anyone on this site even knows clay i grew up with him he was a good kid sometimes things go wrong..but he was a great guy and no matter what anybody says it cant change how everyone sees him yall see him as a killer we see him as CLAY
  • GETFAXS
    don't you just love this!!! its a site to remeber all the loving ways Clay was WTF!!! he wasn't loving he was a murder!! view this link on myspace demand my space take this down!!

    http://groups.myspace.com/ripclaykufner
  • And if you don’t agree with that, then go to some huggy-bunny, smiley, everything-is-equal, the-killer-is-also-a-victim site because that crap doesn’t fly here.


    I love the Wrybread. Just sayin'. :D
  • Wonder
    Clay is Dead Dead Dead and you only have Clay to blame... family or not ---------- Clay don't deserve to be lo ed for what he put them thru...
    like I said... Clay should of thought about the outcome... apparently he didn't Love you all ...
  • Lizard
    I really do not like the comments that some of you are sending.


    I am not sending comments. I only post comments.

    However, I am now broadcasting thoughts of harmony, forgiveness, goodwill, pudgy puppies, and frolicking kittens. Peace.
  • bogustoo
    I really do not like the comments that some of you are sending.Sure, Clay had a problem…he DID do wrong, he DID kill his ex-girlfriend…but your missing the point. He did have family, and because he was wrong with an ex girlfriend, does not change the fact thathis family loved and cared for him and would morn on behalf ofhis loss just as the Hall family did for Natasha. I am not saying that itis right for what he did, what I am saying is that he was still and will always be loved by his family. Think about your family. If your son or daughter did this, would you still love them? Of course you would, and if you wouldn’t, you would have problems.

    I’m really sorry for all that has happened to that poor girl.


    Dontalwayshate, you have a right not to like the comments. Just as WE have a right to make them. This is the Grand Ole U.S. of A. We're all entitled to opinions. Don't like them? DON'T READ THEM! Want the hoopla surrounding your "friend" to die down? Then don't post a comment on a thread that hasn't been commented on in four months!

    The only thing you have succeeded in doing here is to remind everyone what a POS Clay was. Thanks! Have a great day.
  • WryBread
    I really do not like the comments that some of you are sending.Sure, Clay had a problem…he DID do wrong, he DID kill his ex-girlfriend…but your missing the point. He did have family, and because he was wrong with an ex girlfriend, does not change the fact thathis family loved and cared for him and would morn on behalf ofhis loss just as the Hall family did for Natasha. I am not saying that itis right for what he did, what I am saying is that he was still and will always be loved by his family. Think about your family. If your son or daughter did this, would you still love them? Of course you would, and if you wouldn’t, you would have problems.


    What is the point of this post? His family is upset and sad because he killed a young woman and then he stepped out of the situation so he didn't have to face any of the consequences? That doesn't impress me as the same thing at all as being the family of a young woman who was murdered in cold blood by a selfish shithead.

    I'd think the feelings of his family would tend to be SHAME that they had among them such a disgusting example of the human species. And if they are seeing things right, they should be GLAD to be rid of him before he hurt one more person.

    And if you don't agree with that, then go to some huggy-bunny, smiley, everything-is-equal, the-killer-is-also-a-victim site because that crap doesn't fly here.
  • Gilbrit
    If your son or daughter did this, would you still love them? Of course you would...

    And their faces would be front and center on this site!
    How dare you try to negate the life of another.
  • Hippiepoet
    I really do not like the comments that some of you are sending.
    Sure, Clay had a problem…he DID do wrong, he DID kill his ex-girlfriend…but your missing the point. He did have family, and because he was wrong with an ex girlfriend, does not change the fact that
    his family loved and cared for him and would morn on behalf of
    his loss just as the Hall family did for Natasha. I am not saying that it
    is right for what he did, what I am saying is that he was still and will always be loved by his family. Think about your family. If your son or daughter did this, would you still love them? Of course you would, and if you wouldn’t, you would have problems.


    You don't like some of the comments we're sending. Well you know what? Don't fucking come here and read them. This is a public shaming site, not an "Oh somebody loves him somewhere site...boofuckinghoo".

    No one ever said for his family not to love him. I personally don't give a flying fuck, but seriously...........go fucking love him somewhere else. Not fucking here.

    Thanks. Now fuck off.
  • dontalwayshate
    I really do not like the comments that some of you are sending.
    Sure, Clay had a problem...he DID do wrong, he DID kill his ex-girlfriend...but your missing the point. He did have family, and because he was wrong with an ex girlfriend, does not change the fact that
    his family loved and cared for him and would morn on behalf of
    his loss just as the Hall family did for Natasha. I am not saying that it
    is right for what he did, what I am saying is that he was still and will always be loved by his family. Think about your family. If your son or daughter did this, would you still love them? Of course you would, and if you wouldn't, you would have problems.

    I'm really sorry for all that has happened to that poor girl.
  • shadow_dreamz
    But on January 15, police allegedly told Natasha that if she kept calling, she’d be arrested along with Clay - so Natasha stopped calling for help.


    OMG! She is being harassed and the police threaten to arrest her. Has the world gone completely mad?
  • Angel
    Also, in regard to why the girl kept having contact with her POS, uhhh, I mean ex, whether the police wanted to get involved or not, the girl's family should have done something. I have told my two children who are old enough to be interested in the opposite sex that as long as a boy is good to them, and they are in a healthy relationship, I will make every effort to like the boy, or at least tolerate him. I have also told each of the boys that my college-age daughter has introduced to me that as long as my daughter likes him AND he is treating her right, I will not have a problem with his presence in her life. However, if my daughter stops liking him OR he stops being the perfect gentleman my daughter deserves, he doesn't need to even have thoughts of her anymore. And I will back that up with my baby glock if I have to. Notice the placement and choice of the conjunctions in the preceding sentences. Both requirements have to be met for me to accept his presence in the former scenario, but it will only take one of the conditions in the latter to revoke my good graces. If it's a choice between my daughter's safety or her ex's intended career - well, my daughter wins that competition every time.
  • thepooh5
    I really think the cops dropped the ball on this one.

    “I said to the police officer, ‘She is a minor. I still want to pursue the charges, I’m her mother,’” Hall said. “The police officer said, ‘You can’t do that, if she doesn’t want to press charges you can’t do that.’”


    I don't know this particular police department, but I do know COPS LIE AS MUCH OR MORE THAN CRIMINALS.

    The mother should have been able to press charges whether her minor child wanted her to or not - (ie. how many consensual statutory rapes cases has the girl testifying against the guy - NONE, "I love him, Mom, it wasn't rape, it was sex, blah, blah, blah".) Yet, mom and dad are able to get his ass convicted. It could have been done.

    The cop may have advised her that unless her daughter testified, they may not have much of a case or you'll probably be able to convict him of contributing - but to say "you can't do that" is pure and utter BULLSHIT!!

    And if they were so poor, they couldn't move or what have you, get a ballbat, a large stick, your best kitchen knife and keep the prick away from your daughter. I could have done something, like kick her ass for posing nude, had his ass kicked for bothering my daughter, there are a number of things that could have been done - maybe they all aren't legal, but who gives a rat's fat ass, if her daughter were still alive?
  • Angel
    Sorry if I offend anyone, but since when did old people start having MySpace pages (a.k.a. Clay’s mom) lmao. I cant imagine either of my parents having or even wanting one. People at my job are pretty much all in agreement that once you hit like, 35 you are too old for a MySpace page. I know, it’s very prejudice. It’s just weird though!


    I'm over 35, and I created a myspace page to check up on my children - who are not. I don't use it much anymore though, I just take the mouse from my daughter when she is logged into her page. Much easier that way.
  • solange822001
    Oh yeah, and does anyone know where the hell he got the gun from? Are 19 year olds even allowed to buy guns?
  • solange822001
    But hindsight’s 20/20. I have no doubt this mother did what she thought was best and that she loved her daughter, I just think she figured Clay would eventually go away. Did nobody ever call his parents, say he was blackmailing a minor with nude photos?


    THAT is exactly what I want to know. I find it hard to believe that his mom knew nothing of this
  • I really think the cops dropped the ball on this one.

    Any officer could have tracked the kid's phone number down and called his parents to tell them their son had problems. Any officer could have taken Clay aside and told him that if he went near her again, he'd be someone's new friend in jail.

    But her family... I understand no money, I do, but when your child is in real danger you pack up and move in with relatives if you have to. I could not have heard my daughter tell me that some guy was standing outside her window trying to see if she was sleeping - I'd get her, we'd get in the car, we'd drive to the police station until he left, then we'd leave town. End of story. A homeless shelter is better than what Natasha was going through.

    But hindsight's 20/20. I have no doubt this mother did what she thought was best and that she loved her daughter, I just think she figured Clay would eventually go away. Did nobody ever call his parents, say he was blackmailing a minor with nude photos?
  • solange822001
    Wow, Natasha's mom did this interview. Now Im starting to wonder if the police are lying?

    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=4323429&...

    Cheri Hall says she urged her daughter to press charges, but Natasha refused because she felt badly for Kupfer. So the mother tried to file charges against Kufner herself.

    "I said to the police officer, 'She is a minor. I still want to pursue the charges, I'm her mother,'" Hall said. "The police officer said, 'You can't do that, if she doesn't want to press charges you can't do that.'"
  • solange822001
    Wow A.B., that's pretty interesting. I dont know what to think at this point. Can this be true though, that they were really pushing the police to press charges in one instance, but then refusing to press charges in another instance to save his possible Airforce career? Someone is definitely lying here, not sure who
  • ab
    Off another site:

    comment number 46 by: The Truth from her Family
    February 21st, 2008 at 12:46 am


    We are greatful for all the heartfelt sympathy from everyone..Thank you for defending or at least in some way understanding we had done everything we could..we begged the police to arrest and charge him with something..they never arrested him altho they were called 9 times in 3 mos….we called the DA’s office to follow up on the complaints and we were told they were backlogged due to mandatory vacations for the staff. The story runs deeper than has been posted and reposted and retold with facts left out…WE CAN AFFORD TO BURY HER…HOW COULD WE AFFORD TO DROP EVERYTHING AND MOVE??? I can not stand being judged and blamed. Everyone has a right to their own opinion but PLEASE REMEMBER you were not here. It is easy to assume what you would do in our situation…


    The Truth from her Family reply on February 21, 2008:

    Sorry…I meant to see that we could not afford her final expenses how could we have dropped everything and moved??

    comment number 47 by: The Truth from her Family
    February 21st, 2008 at 12:56 am


    Her mother (my sister) is devastated. Anyhow I want to thank all of you that are supporting us…I swear to God we had tried everything within our power to get the police to do something. OF COURSE AT THIS POINT THEY are going to DENY that we tried anything. HE BEAT HER and we begged for assault charges…the slapped him with a simple battery (a misdemeanor which is not an arrest-able offense)…We begged for kidnapping…again he was slapped with simple battery…

    Everyone keeps asking why she would talk to him…HE WAS BLACKMAILING HER. He had taken nude photos of her he threatened to send to all her friends and post on the internet. WE BEGGED THE POLICE to charge CLAY with CHILD PORNOGRAPHY..HE WAS 18 and she was 16. THEY DID NOTHING. THEY DID NOT EVEN INVESTIGATE. A POLICE officer who is a family friend and lived next door to CLAY advised him to delete the photos.
  • WryBread
    Clay was spoiled. Look at the post his defender made. Full of "thinking-lite" cliches of psycho-justifying babble. He was a spoiled kid who couldn't take "no" for an answer.
  • It would seem to me, after reading everything, that this young woman’s parents failed her as well.


    Yeah there is plenty of fail to go around. I find it as easy to believe that a patrol officer on the scene made the statement that they could both be arrested, probably related to the fact that their statements were inconsistent, as I find to believe that the Chief can find no reference to this in the official paperwork.

    Ultimately the girl and her mom chose to maintain that relationship though, that's what always perplexed me why do they keep going back to these things that are bad for them? So sad.
  • thepooh5
    Well, the idiots have started coming out of the woodwork - new it was gonna happen - *shakes head*

    i think you are being rude, not only one life was taken this weekend. just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person. obviously you don’t know clay if you’re going to sit here and degrade him, he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha. i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.


    How in the hell did you come up with "one very wrong thing"? He abused this girl repeatedly, HE WAS A WOMAN BEATER. He threatened this girl over and over. He broke and entered her home, stalked her, AND THEN HE MURDERED HER!!

    Sorry, but when your one "very wrong thing" is murder - YES it does define him as an abusive, woman beating, murdering POS!!!!

    I’m starting to realize why Clay never got the help he needed. Nobody in his family, none of his friends seemed to think his behavior was a problem. Which is really feckin’ scary.


    Yeah, imp I can see that clearly now myself. His whole network of family and friends were blind or stupid or both.

    Wow, Solange thanks for the link. It would seem to me, after reading everything, that this young woman’s parents failed her as well. I do not understand all the things this young man did, and they kept letting him get close to her. If the parents would have followed up with the police, got a restraining order, their daughter might be alive today.


    I touched on that yesterday, saying I hate to bash a mom after just losing her child - but YES, her mom should have took what ever measures necessary to keep him away for her daughter. Instead, she took him food. Stupid mom. Poor Natasha. :(
  • Hippiepoet
    Wow, Solange thanks for the link. It would seem to me, after reading everything, that this young woman's parents failed her as well. I do not understand all the things this young man did, and they kept letting him get close to her. If the parents would have followed up with the police, got a restraining order, their daughter might be alive today.
  • WryBread
    "She was trying to let Clay down easily," Natasha's mother said."
    http://www.beacononlinenews.co.....temnum=605


    Sounds like Natasha did suffer from "invincible teen syndrome." She thought she could manage Clay -- yeah, with all her 17 years of experience with life. Too bad her mother agreed -- or that Natasha wouldn't let her mother guide her. And neither would let the police have the power they needed to get involved.

    What a mess and now a young woman is dead.
  • solange822001
    The police have finally responded (Read down a bit):

    http://www.beacononlinenews.com/dailyitem.php?i...

    It really bothers me how Natahsa's mom is talking all this crap about police. There is a way to do things, and there is procedure. If you dont follow the procedure, and the advice given by the police, how can they continue to help you? From personal experience, the first thing they advise you to do is get a restraining order. Once you do that, they have the authority to arrest him if he comes withing 100 feet of her. For her mom to not do that is her fault and her fault alone. I understand the whole "he was going to the airforce and we didnt want to ruin his chances" thing. That might have appled the first time he abused her. After the second, third, fourth time, that should have gone out the window. It's his own fault if his career was ruined. If the police told you what you have to do to protect your daughter, AND YOU CHOSE NOT TO DO IT, then that is your own fault.
  • solange822001
    And your comment about “there’s no need for your rude inputs”, silly, that is what we do here. Dammit, you shall not take away our good times! Muhahahahha



    LMAO
  • muffin77
    I’m starting to realize why Clay never got the help he needed. Nobody in his family, none of his friends seemed to think his behavior was a problem. Which is really feckin’ scary.


    Feckin'? Are you Irish Imp?
  • Harley_Tech
    mean_people_suck

    I'd say stalking, beating, dragging by the hair...etc etc are mean actions by a mean person....you know what? you are right...mean people suck and Clay was a mean person.

    He did the world a favor, just two shots too late. He should have just shot himself and been done with it but Nooooooo!

    As with most threads here on DD, Albert Einstein was right. (see the top right hand corner of this page)

    R
  • Unamused Cat
    I read that one too! Did you read the one that said “R.I.P. Clay, God must have needed another angel”


    LMAO.... No Way. The devil just wanted another blow job, and I got to admit, Clay has, rather had, nice lips.
  • Unamused Cat
    i think you are being rude, not only one life was taken this weekend. just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person. obviously you don’t know clay if you’re going to sit here and degrade him, he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha. i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.


    Everything Clay ever was has come down to this, a shameful, cowardly act against a defenseless girl. I think he has degraded himself. Y'all must be so proud.
  • Hippiepoet
    i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.


    Oh believe me child, my mother said that to me a lot growing up, but not in defense of some kid, murdering his girlfriend. Holy shit.

    And your comment about "there's no need for your rude inputs", silly, that is what we do here. Dammit, you shall not take away our good times! Muhahahahha
  • AshKristen
    he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha


    You must be one of those girls on his myspace that had been leaving him flirtatious comments and now have your myspace name as "RIP Clay Kufner"

    grow up.

    I can tell you one thing his family and friends are dumb. DUMB. I keyed my ex boyfriends car and he told my parents who yelled at me and lectured about vandalism for an hour, and I didnt do anything nearly as bad, maybe Im define as "crazy" but I was just proving a point. Where were his family and friends to tell him hitting a girl and stalking her is WRONG and calls for MENTAL HELP. I am the same age as Clay was and never in my wildest dreams would I kill an ex who didnt want me back talk about fucking pathetic. NOW if you want us to feel sorry for Clay you're on the wrong site, so take your petty "oh stop being mean and rude to my friend who MURDERED an innocent girl who didnt like him anymore" comments and go cry to someone who will care.

    cause none of us will.
  • WryBread
    i think you are being rude, not only one life was taken this weekend. just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person. obviously you don’t know clay if you’re going to sit here and degrade him, he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha. i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.


    Yeah, it's so RUDE.

    "Not only one life was taken this weekend." Hmmm, Clay's life was thrown away, Natasha's stolen. Big difference.

    "Just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person." Yeah, it does -- murderer.

    "Obviously you don’t know clay ...." Lucky for us, I guess!

    "... if you’re going to sit here and degrade him ..." Can't really degrade a stalker/murderer.

    "... he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha" And where were they while he was harassing her?

    "... i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all." Yawn, we are taking about a murderer, right?

    "theres no need for your rude inputs." Well, you take care of your inputs and we'll care for ours.
  • WryBread
    Did you read the one that said “R.I.P. Clay, God must have needed another angel”? blockquote>

    I think it must have been Satan who needed another angel.
  • just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person.


    Oh, honey, you are young,aren't you?

    You know what? Dramatic events DO define people. Curing Polio defined Jonas Salk. Iraq is defining George Bush Jr. Screwing around with an aide defined Bill Clinton, no matter that the country was in the best shape it had been in in years. Not that your buddy is any where near the men any of them are.

    He physically abused a female,stalked her, then murdered her. It IS going to define him more than any touch downs or good grades he had.

    Add to that that he was too chicken shit to face what he did and took the easy way out- oh, it could be SO much worse...
  • I read that one too! Did you read the one that said “R.I.P. Clay, God must have needed another angel” ? WTF! I do not understand people that won’t even mention the fact that there was a victim. These people are talking like this guy died in some accident or something. I do understand that they are hurting but come on…. he wasn’t a saint. They had to know about his dark side. I don’t thank he could have hid it from everyone except Natasha and her family.


    I'm starting to realize why Clay never got the help he needed. Nobody in his family, none of his friends seemed to think his behavior was a problem. Which is really feckin' scary.
  • i think you are being rude, not only one life was taken this weekend. just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn’t define him as a person. obviously you don’t know clay if you’re going to sit here and degrade him, he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha. i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.


    Yay, they've arrived :)

    You're right. We shouldn't judge Clay by "one very wrong thing". I think we'll judge him by nine police calls worth of stalking, screaming, threatening, beating his girlfriend, dragging her out of a store by her hair in front of witnesses, and then shooting her - twice - before having a moment of clarity and removing himself from the planet. That's significantly more than one wrong thing.

    No amount of "nice guy" makes up for "stalker, abuser, and murderer". And hiding that fact doesn't do Natasha, the murder victim here, any justice at all.
  • i don’t know haven’t you ever been taught, if you don’t have anything nice to say then don’t say anything thing at all.


    Yeah, we have all heard it, but just like you, we choose to ignore it.
  • mo.armymom
    Yeah, WTF?!?!? One says “RIP Clay my LOVING Cousin” blood relations really makes people stupid. Even funerals I have went to, no matter what a P.O.S. that person was in life, all of a sudden they become a friggin’ saint. Going to support the innocent members of both familys is one thing, but to make the killer a saint just enrages me. Dude, your cousin just shot a girl and himself over rage and jealously! The only person he loved was himself, so he better get his way or else, huh?

    I read that one too! Did you read the one that said "R.I.P. Clay, God must have needed another angel" ? WTF! I do not understand people that won't even mention the fact that there was a victim. These people are talking like this guy died in some accident or something. I do understand that they are hurting but come on.... he wasn't a saint. They had to know about his dark side. I don't thank he could have hid it from everyone except Natasha and her family.
  • mean_people_suck
    i think you are being rude, not only one life was taken this weekend. just because clay did one very wrong thing doesn't define him as a person. obviously you don't know clay if you're going to sit here and degrade him, he was a person also who had friends and family just as well as natasha. i don't know haven't you ever been taught, if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything thing at all. theres no need for your rude inputs.
  • Oh, right now it’s just intense dislike mail.


    exactly! LOL
  • Sir Geoff
    Yeah, WTF?!?!? One says "RIP Clay my LOVING Cousin" blood relations really makes people stupid. Even funerals I have went to, no matter what a P.O.S. that person was in life, all of a sudden they become a friggin' saint. Going to support the innocent members of both familys is one thing, but to make the killer a saint just enrages me. Dude, your cousin just shot a girl and himself over rage and jealously! The only person he loved was himself, so he better get his way or else, huh?
  • WryBread
    I’m sure that if we hear from the person again, Morbid or I will post it in Hate Mail. It hasn’t gotten hateful enough to be fun yet.


    Oh, right now it's just intense dislike mail.
  • We don’t get to see the hate mail?


    I'm sure that if we hear from the person again, Morbid or I will post it in Hate Mail. It hasn't gotten hateful enough to be fun yet. ;)
  • WryBread
    Oh, our hatemail has already begun. Morbid did a good job of answering one family member already, who’s told us to take this story down.


    We don't get to see the hate mail? :(
  • Has anybody seem any reports of friends or family defending this guy?


    Oh, our hatemail has already begun. Morbid did a good job of answering one family member already, who's told us to take this story down. That person did not offer a defense, but I'm gonna bet that it will be "the bitch was asking for it" or that Natasha shot herself twice (once in the head), or that Clay was not taking his meds.

    Um, no. Not taking it down. The more traffic, the better, because people need to know - if your significant other hits you, he or she is capable of killing you.
  • ab
    To all the nurses on here (including myself), did you notice that Clay's mom is a nurse?
  • thepooh5
    Well, correction, other than mom's myspace, no. What's with the RIP Clay? Is that some sort of sympathy for the mom or really meant for Clay?
  • thepooh5
    Has anybody seem any reports of friends or family defending this guy? Or any reports as to what, if any, actions were being done on HIS end to help diffuse his actions? I find it hard to believe that his family was not aware of at least some of what was happening.


    I cannot find a mention of anything regarding his family, even at this point. I had suggested earlier, that perhaps, he had no one, since even the mom could not just tell him to stay away - some sort of misplaced sympathy for this guy.
  • Has anybody seem any reports of friends or family defending this guy? Or any reports as to what, if any, actions were being done on HIS end to help diffuse his actions? I find it hard to believe that his family was not aware of at least some of what was happening.
  • thepooh5
    Who wants to make a bet that his daddy is a violent, controlling, and abusive SOB? Anyone?


    I wouldn't bet against it................... :(
  • Unamused Cat
    And seriously, where were Clay’s parents in all this?


    Mom was off taking glamour shots so she can catch a man on MySpace.
  • V
    On Dec 29, Kufner threw ice cream at Hall and struck her in the face. When Hall ran into a Winn-Dixie, Kufner followed her and dragged her out by the hair, a witness told police.

    “He dropped her like a sack of potatoes and told me to mind my own business,” David Rice told police. ‘He said he was going to teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his Mustang.”


    Who wants to make a bet that his daddy is a violent, controlling, and abusive SOB? Anyone?
  • thepooh5
    People at your job, including yourself, will all have one (or something equivalent) after 35 as well.


    What is scarier - 35 will be here before you know it. Its a sneaky bastard.
  • ballgirl
    Sorry if I offend anyone, but since when did old people start having MySpace pages (a.k.a. Clay’s mom) lmao. I cant imagine either of my parents having or even wanting one. People at my job are pretty much all in agreement that once you hit like, 35 you are too old for a MySpace page. I know, it’s very prejudice. It’s just weird though!

    I hear ya...it started out being a network for pre-teens & teenagers, then Facebook came along for college-aged young adults. I've had a hard time jumping on the MySpace bandwagon. I still regard it as a teenage social network. I guess the times are changing. If psychos, pedophiles & rapists can have a MySpace page, what's stopping us normal middle-aged adults?!?
  • WryBread
    My cousin doesn't email me. But now that I have a myspace page, she sends messages to it, notice of which are then forwarded to my email page. I guess she is on myspace more? I don't know. My other cousin set me up with a blog, which is something that she likes. I can't even get into my blog, so that was a fizzle!

    I don't get the people like Clay's mother who put a background on their myspace page that makes it hard to read the entries. It was making me dizzy trying to read all her junk around the running horse picture.
  • Sorry if I offend anyone, but since when did old people start having MySpace pages (a.k.a. Clay’s mom) lmao. I cant imagine either of my parents having or even wanting one. People at my job are pretty much all in agreement that once you hit like, 35 you are too old for a MySpace page. I know, it’s very prejudice. It’s just weird though!


    Why? Myspace is a perfectly easy way for people to keep in touch with friends and family as well as dating. It is a perfect way for families separated by distance, to keep tabs on what is going on with each other's lives. That's not even counting how easy it is to reconnect with friends you have lost contact with. The fact that it takes almost no skill whatsoever to use is another draw.

    People at your job, including yourself, will all have one (or something equivalent) after 35 as well.
  • thepooh5
    Damn, this prick threatened to burn her house down, and the dumb mom brought him food? My mom would have fed him alright. She would have shoved his own balls down his throat!


    There again, I'm with you. I hate to bash a mom who just lost her child, BUT DAMN.

    What did it take for the mom to write his ass off? Its no wonder the girl was sneaking out to see him - judging by the mom's actions. And, I use the word "sneaking", losely. Mom was still buying him food - mom is still showing signs of sympathy for this POS - why would the child not think, ".....o-kay maybe I should just talk to him one more time". Hell, her mom couldn't even make a clean break, so why did she expect her daughter to? Damn, lead by example, Mom.
  • solange822001
    Sorry if I offend anyone, but since when did old people start having MySpace pages (a.k.a. Clay's mom) lmao. I cant imagine either of my parents having or even wanting one. People at my job are pretty much all in agreement that once you hit like, 35 you are too old for a MySpace page. I know, it's very prejudice. It's just weird though!
  • solange822001
    Thepooh, as of 2001 which is when I had my incident, things are just as you say. The prosecutor who handled my ex's case said that she would press charges whether I wanted to or not. And that she would subpoened me to come to court, and obviously I would go to jail if I didnt. She also said that if there are children involved, they can have your kids taken away if you dont press charges. They really should do that more often, maybe they do, I dont know.
  • thepooh5
    One might call them “mama’s boys”, but this mama will remain a constant in their lives!


    Exactly - even if he's 60 and I'm 81 - mom will be there to give praise or rag ass, whatever may be needed at the time.
  • solange822001
    Damn, this prick threatened to burn her house down, and the dumb mom brought him food? My mom would have fed him alright. She would have shoved his own balls down his throat!
  • thepooh5
    I thought police had to act in cases of domestic violence whether the victim wanted to press charges or not?


    I thought it was just the opposite. In domestic violence cases, the woman has the option of pressing charges. To others fighting, or what have you, I thought, if the crime was bad enough, the state could take over the charges and press them whether the victim did or not.

    The laws may have changed since my first hand knowledge (this was mid to late 80's) - I did witness, once, where these two had been in a fight and the loser, who was hurt fairly bad, did not want to press charges. The state took over the case and prosocuted the winner of the fight. They actually had to subpoena the loser of the fight as the state's witness.

    Maybe, the whole domestic thing plays out differently, I don't know. If not, it should. Most people in a domesctic situation, are too scared to act, at the time. A lot of them will not act until the threat is removed and even then, because of so many violent beatings and threats of more beatings or death - they may not be able, mentally to act on their own behalf, in regards to doing anything that might upset the offender - like getting them arrested and having a restraining order.

    I have a friend who was abused as a child, she was warned by her mother, that if she "thought today was bad, just tell someone and see what happens." She told and her father did not do enough to ensure her mother knew not to hurt her - so the abuse got worse. She never told another soul and just took the abuse. Only, on his death bed, did her father admit to her, "that I should have done more to help you". Pretty sad.

    Just for the record, I did not know this woman when she was a child, so that is why I didn't stick my BIG NOSE in her business. I know only what I have been told AND I have no reason to doubt her words. I'm just saying, mentally, a lot of abused people do not have the mental strength to stand up for themselves - a concept I cannot understand, but have seen.
  • solange822001
    I thought police had to act in cases of domestic violence whether the victim wanted to press charges or not? In criminal cases, isn’t it the state who is technically pressing charges (for violating the law), not the victim?



    Not necessarily. They can decide whether or not to proceed with any charges, but they arent mandated to.
  • ballgirl
    And, on the flip side, if my son ever, ever treats a woman like this - he better be watching out for dear ole mom. Back to the “where were his parents” - I do not get to stop being a parent when my son is 18. He may be legal - but he will still be my son and I will still be his mom. I would have to get involved, if my son’s behavior were as such.

    You got that right, sista! I have 2 teenage boys (with my oldest turning 20 this year) & I can promise you they would get a reality check by mom and dad, if we ever thought they were treating a female with such disregard and disrespect. One might call them "mama's boys", but this mama will remain a constant in their lives!
  • Kathy
    I just peeked at his mom's myspace.

    There are a few messages from people who have "RIP Clay" in their profile names and say things like "He's in a better place." Better place? Like hell? Don't people who believe in an afterlife believe that murder and suicide = hell?

    and seriously RIP CLAY? What about "we are sorry Clay is a murdering idiot." These people disgust me.
  • thepooh5
    “He dropped her like a sack of potatoes and told me to mind my own business,” David Rice told police. ‘He said he was going to teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his Mustang.”


    Where was that POS Rice's balls? "Teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his mustang." - Please don't tell me, that lamo David Rice, thought that was a justified reason for not stepping up to help this girl. Maybe he did call the cops, at the time, I don't know. But why didn't he help her get away from him or at least keep his attention until the police arrived?

    Damn, he just same as said, I'm gonna kick her ass for spilling ice cream in his car. Duh! Be a man and help a girl, DAMN DAMN AND DOUBLE DAMN!!!
  • I thought police had to act in cases of domestic violence whether the victim wanted to press charges or not?


    If I am not mistaken, they were not living together. If that is the case, it is not domestic violence.
  • LeeMouse
    I thought police had to act in cases of domestic violence whether the victim wanted to press charges or not? In criminal cases, isn't it the state who is technically pressing charges (for violating the law), not the victim? Those police should have acted more forcefully, regardless of how the families wanted to handle it. That's what they're there for. After all, families and teens can be naive...the police, not so much. They _know_ how often these cases turn bad. They _know_ how often a restraining order just triggers the stalker to act out. It's the police department's job to know those things--it's their profession, after all. They should have taken this more seriously, regardless of how or what the parents did. After all, we see oblivious parents on here all the time. People will be oblivious. That's why we have professionals who get paid to see the seamy side of life and act accordingly. Yeah, if he wanted to kill her, he would find a way no matter what. Doesn't excuse the police's seeming to take this too lightly.

    I have so many young female students who are confident--falsely--that they can "take care" of themselves and handle any threat that comes their way. Not true. One asshole with a gun, hiding in your bedroom, negates all the moxie and Oprah self-defense tips in the world.
  • Kathy
    “He dropped her like a sack of potatoes and told me to mind my own business,” David Rice told police. ‘He said he was going to teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his Mustang.”


    What a fucking douchebag!
  • thepooh5
    Parents need to parent. Quit trying to be your kids friend.


    True words of wisdom.

    My first phone call would be to police, the next phone call would be to his parents & I’d drive them bat-shit crazy until they got him some serious help. He was only 19…most “normal” parents are involved in a young adults life. I have a 19-yr-old and I keep his ass in check! Hell, my parents still play a major role in my life! Where the hell are his parents in all of this?


    The question of where are his parents has been asked a couple of times - I'm guessing, maybe that is why the girl and the mom kept feeling sorry for him and trying to let things slide - he had no home or parents or none to really speak of. Just guessing?

    When a kid beats up your kid - how do you buy them food or be civil to them in any way? I don't have a daughter, but if I did and her boyfriend hit her and threatened her - HE would be the one worried about me stalking his ass - like big game. He would be on the defense so fast he would not have time to stalk my daughter any more. How did her mom have all of this compassion for him? Had he been with her so long - he was part of the family? WTH?

    And, on the flip side, if my son ever, ever treats a woman like this - he better be watching out for dear ole mom. Back to the "where were his parents" - I do not get to stop being a parent when my son is 18. He may be legal - but he will still be my son and I will still be his mom. I would have to get involved, if my son's behavior were as such.
  • On Dec 29, Kufner threw ice cream at Hall and struck her in the face. When Hall ran into a Winn-Dixie, Kufner followed her and dragged her out by the hair, a witness told police.

    "He dropped her like a sack of potatoes and told me to mind my own business," David Rice told police. 'He said he was going to teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his Mustang."
  • ballgirl
    My first phone call would be to police, the next phone call would be to his parents & I'd drive them bat-shit crazy until they got him some serious help. He was only 19...most "normal" parents are involved in a young adults life. I have a 19-yr-old and I keep his ass in check! Hell, my parents still play a major role in my life! Where the hell are his parents in all of this?
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