Natasha Hall Said No; Clay Kufner Killed Her
February 18, 2008 by impqueen
DELAND, FL — Natasha Hall, 17, said no. She said it more than once. After breaking up with Clay Kufner last NovemberNovember reviews
, Natasha said “no” a lot. But Clay, 19, just kept coming around. And coming around. And calling. And coming around. And calling some more. His Myspace page says “I still looveee you”. Hers says “Natasha doesn’t get mad, she gets EVEN.” Several other MyspaceMySpace
pages showed Natasha and Clay kissing, looking the happy couple – until November of last year. Now, Natasha’s dead by Clay’s hand; Clay’s dead by his own. And their friends are united in a giant wave of “WTF”.
The breakup was nasty and incomplete. Natasha broke up with Clay last fall, but Clay didn’t think it was over. In fact, Natasha didn’t seem sure it was over. The 911 call logs make that pretty clear.
As far back as July 2007, Natasha’s mom called police, saying that Clay was stalking her daughter. In November, her mother called police again, this time saying that Clay was threatening to bang their door in and was on the porch, screaming threats into the house. In December, Natasha’s mom called police because Clay had gotten mad about an email and beat up Natasha – but Natasha and her mother decided not to press charges, and a police report wasn’t filed.
Two weeks later Natasha’s mother again called 911. She said that Clay was making numerous harassing phone calls to their home. Further, she said that Clay took Natasha to a McDonald’s to talk – Natasha wasn’t agreeable to a reconciliation, so Clay threw ice cream in her face, then chased her into a grocery store and forcefully carried her out. This time a police report was filed.
On January 12th this year cops responded to Natasha’s home after Natasha and her mother got in a fight. Natasha’s mother claims that Natasha was sneaking out to see – guess who – Clay. But not a week later, Clay punched Natasha in the face and split her lip, prompting another police call. Just a few days after that, Natasha called 911 herself, afraid. She said that Clay was banging on her doors and windows and screaming at her because she had gone to a party where there were boys. But on January 15, police allegedly told Natasha that if she kept calling, she’d be arrested along with Clay – so Natasha stopped calling for help.
On Friday, Clay broke into Natasha’s bedroom. There he found the “evidence” he was looking for – a Valentine from another boy. So Clay went through the caller ID, called the new boyfriend and pretended to be a military recruiter. The new boyfriend then called Natasha to tell her that something was weird and Clay was in her house. So Natasha and her friend Michelle went to the house. Why? I don’t know.
 The girls went into the house and Natasha called Clay out, but he wasn’t inside, so the girls decided to leave and go get some food.  As they were leaving at about 10:30 p.m., Clay appeared from around the side of the house, where he’d been lying in wait with a gun.  Michelle says that she opened the front door and yelled to warn Natasha, but Clay started shooting.
“He looked at me and said, “I’m going to fucking kill you. Get the fuck out of here,”Michelle said. “I was going crazy. I couldn’t breathe watching my best friend get shot. I couldn’t help her. I felt helpless and I couldn’t do anything for her.â€
Clay shot Natasha in the head first, then yelled at Michelle, who ran.  Then he turned to Natasha again and calmly shot her in the chest. Nice. Then Clay shot himself next to his unrequited love. If there’s an afterlife and Clay is in it, Natasha is going to be severely pissed off.
8:20 pm on February 18th, 2008
What a waste, such a pretty girl, apparently he just couldn’t fathom her being with other people….so why not kill her?? His life, I could give 2 shits about, worthless POS!!!
8:49 pm on February 18th, 2008
A common mistake — be nice to the guy and eventually he’ll go away. Don’t be firm, just be real nice and try to indirectly get the message across that it’s over. Meet him again and again and be real nice every time. Make the police tired of you by calling all the time and then meeting the guy again.
Women don’t understand that the crazy guy sees every meeting as encouragement, as hope for the future. If you’re lucky, he finds a new woman to mistreat. If you’re not he eventually thinks that you’re toying with him and betraying him. Then the police will get there too late.
8:52 pm on February 18th, 2008
It is a shame that Natashe didn’t file assault charges on Clay the first time he beat her, and file a restraining order on him. Maybe then the police would have taken her seriously. Then again, many a woman with a restraining order have been killed. =(
8:52 pm on February 18th, 2008
Am I blaming this poor young woman? No, she didn’t know how to handle a murderous nut. Not many of us do. And even the best plans may not work when you’re dealing with insanity and ego. It’s not her fault at all. I reread my post and saw that I hadn’t made this point clear.
9:03 pm on February 18th, 2008
His hero is the “Man up above”? Hmph.
I’d bet that it’s the Man Down Below that you are blowing right about now muthafucka!
9:19 pm on February 18th, 2008
I think she was young and just thought he’d eventually get over her and go away. What i wanna know is WHERE THE HELL ARE HIS PARENTS? All those police calls, even a couple of reports, and nothing? I realize he was a legal adult, but even at 19 his parents may have been able to help him go to college elsewhere, for example, if they realized a problem was developing.
9:20 pm on February 18th, 2008
Doakes, is that you?
9:50 pm on February 18th, 2008
Part of this story is missing.
The Deland Police Department told Natasha that if she tried to get help from them again, she would be arrested.
http://janedevin.com/2008/02/18/in-fear-for-your-life-dont-call-deland-police/
Un-fucking unbelievable!
9:52 pm on February 18th, 2008
Sorry, it wasn’t missing, I’m just a really fast incompetent reader!
They should be SUED though!
10:14 pm on February 18th, 2008
In all fairness, 911 couldn’t have done a thing that night. For whatever reason, Natasha decided to go to the house, knowing that he was there, or had been there. Not that she could have foreseen herself being killed that night, but she definitely thought she could handle the situation and she did not seem to be afraid of him.
“She just wanted to stop home for a minute to change clothes,” said Michelle Karpowicz, Hall’s best friend. “The front door was locked so she went around the back, and the back door was open. I heard her yell, ‘I know you’re in here (expletive deleted)’.”
10:43 pm on February 18th, 2008
I agree. You see, this one hits close to home for me because I was stalked for several months by a guy I barely knew.
The police detective told me that this type of guy usually goes away. Their hands were tied until he did something.
But I hid out at my family’s for a couple of weeks and the night that I came home I learned that this nut had been phoning the police and sending them to my apartment every night. There was no record of the calls because no one answered my door obviously. So he was wearing out the police’s interest in my situation. Scarey shit. I disappeared for a couple of months at that point and luckily for me he moved out of town.
I can’t imagine contacting a stalker again and again the way this girl did. I don’t understand why someone didn’t impress upon her that her life might be at stake. She had “immortal teenager” syndrome, I guess.
12:24 am on February 19th, 2008
Wrybread, where are you getting that she kept contacting him?
Really, the police seem to have left her defenseless. I hope they get the crap sued out of them.
12:37 am on February 19th, 2008
1. “The breakup was nasty and incomplete. Natasha broke up with Clay last fall, but Clay didn’t think it was over. In fact, Natasha didn’t seem sure it was over.”
2. “Two weeks later Natasha’s mother again called 911 …. she said that Clay took Natasha to a McDonald’s to talk – .” Now how did he arrange that if she didn’t talk to him during one of his threatening phone calls? WHY did she go with him?
3. “On January 12th this year cops responded to Natasha’s home after Natasha and her mother got in a fight. Natasha’s mother claims that Natasha was sneaking out to see – guess who – Clay.”
4. ‘The new boyfriend then called Natasha to tell her that something was weird and Clay was in her house. So Natasha and her friend Michelle went to the house.” Why did they go where he was? That was what he wanted.
It’s right there in the article. I didn’t say that she was phoning him. She was keeping in contact by allowing any contact at all. Meeting him, sneaking out to see him, talking to him, failing to shut if off completely.
My point is that a jealous nut sees that incomplete break-off as a source of hope.
12:41 am on February 19th, 2008
They did no such thing. They did everything they were supposed to do. If she and her family were not willing to press charges, what can they do? The police, nor 911, did anything wrong. It is well documented that they police had been to the residence multiple times and Natasha continued to see Clay even after he assaulted her. Hell, Natasha’s own mother was still in contact with Clay.
Records show police were at the home nine times in the last three months. They show Kufner hit the girl and posted nude pictures of her on the Internet, but the family also refused to press charges against the boy in some cases and Channel 9 learned they never got an injunction or restraining order against him. The girl’s mother also told Eyewitness News on Monday that she continued to talk to Kufner in recent days, even bought him food, as she tried to help him with his anger issues. – Source
Randall Henderson, deputy chief of the DeLand Police Department said he could only address the law in a manner he was allowed. “Although we may know something is occurring, and people have told us it’s occurring, it does not fit the definition of any law, and there’s no protocol for us to actually address it,” Henderson said. Hall’s family admits they could have filed for a restraining order to keep Kufner away, but that he appeared to be getting his life in order and they did not want to ruin the life of someone once special to their daughter. – Source
12:54 am on February 19th, 2008
she sounds like a woman who has no confidence she continued to go back, and possibly wanted some attention, but that doesn’t change what happened, someone needed to step in and help her get away or put him away, i guess he handled that for her though
1:08 am on February 19th, 2008
Oops. I did say “contacting.” I meant “having contact with” the guy.
But my point is the same — talking to him was encouraging him. I wish she and her family had just cut it off — I wonder why they didn’t. It seems his violence was escalating. But if she was sneaking out to see him, what could they do?
As for the police, it’s true that they can’t do anything if charges aren’t pressed against the guy. And there’s a line they can’t cross over until he gets violent or breaks a law.
If it’s true that the police told her not to contact them or they would arrest her, then that’s different. But still — she went to where her killer was, knowing he had broken into her house and knew about the new boyfriend — why? Just a sad, sad story.
1:13 am on February 19th, 2008
she was young and nieve
V:
i will take a turn after he is finished with the man down below
4:06 am on February 19th, 2008
his mom’s myspace: Debra http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=267072008
Private: brother or sister ? jamie’s myspace: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=12740797
Thank the Heavens it seems the Michelle wasn’t hurt physically but she will be mentally sick for along time… keep her up in your prayers that must be a horrible experience to be living.
——
I’ve been in that situation where I left and went back – being emotionally and physically abused just isn’t enough because of Hope, You just can’t break the addiction because people same he is no good for you… you do it when you can’t take no more….
been stalked – restraining order is just a piece of paper, I am blessed that he found someone else and left me alone.
4:35 am on February 19th, 2008
In my case, I didn’t know the guy beyond a very casual acquaintance, but I feel it ended only because he moved to another city. I’m glad you got out of your situation, too, without lasting physical harm.
7:36 am on February 19th, 2008
This is really an eye opener for me, reading everyone’s comments, makes me realize just how common this is. I too went through something similar. My ex, the father of my child, began acting erratic after I broke up with him. It finally escalated into him breaking into my parent’s house, hiding in my shower, and waiting for me to come home from a date. When I turned off the light to go to bed he popped out and began choking me. After several times of doing that, calling the guy I was seeing and threatening to kill him, threatening to rig my car with explosives, I finally talked him out of doing anything else and he left. He went into hiding, until he called me a week later and asked to meet me somewhere. The detective had advised me to agree to this and then call him and tell him where he would be. So instead of meeting me, he met up with a bunch of cops and was promptly arrested. When they arrested him they found a copy of my car key that he had stolen from my room, not sure if that ties in to the explosives thing, but whatever. Although he didn’t choke me hard enough to make me pass out or anything, he left a bruise in the shape of his hand on my neck. He is now serving his 6th year in prison for doing this, supposedly he is getting out in 2010 though
Wonder what the hell I’m going to do then? Buy a gun I guess
7:40 am on February 19th, 2008
Oh another thing, I cant stand half the cops out there. The majority I’ve met are assholes. But I honestly cant blame them in this case. Shame on the mom for not pressing charges and for continuing to communicate with this lunatic. I really hate to say this, but her daughter’s death is partly her fault. The police can only do so much, I would have told her to either press charges and END the situation, or to stop calling. They really did no wrong here
8:18 am on February 19th, 2008
I’ve had two real-life stalkers. Police are often no help. Restraining orders are paper.
You cannot negotiate with a stalker. Talking to them is unhelpful, ever. But bodyguards are very helpful. Big male friends, more than one of them, are often an excellent deterrent. Even just one guy who can act crazier than the stalker and knows more martial arts can be helpful. But don’t ask them questions about what was said – my guy friends left my stalkers alive and mostly unharmed, but I still don’t know what they said or did. Honestly, I don’t care – they ended years of stalking in one or two little meetings when the police were totally unhelpful.
The other thing that can help, if you’re dealing with a workplace stalker, is to go through chain of command at work. When that doesn’t help – because it probably won’t – you quit your job and sue the workplace. That’s a tough way to do things because it makes money tight, even if you can get another job – but it puts pressure on the stalker in a way that speaks very clearly to a professional or executive who doesn’t like to take no for an answer. I had to move, change my phone number, quit my job, and get lawyers – but the guy isn’t bothering me anymore. Whether it’s because he can’t find me or because his job was more important to him than I was, I don’t know and don’t care.
There is no shame in hiding from a stalker. I have done it. If my child was being stalked like Natasha was, I’d have moved her out of the city, out of the state if necessary, and changed every form of contact information I could change. Then, if she went around me and got in touch with him anyway, we’d do it all over again. A child’s life is too important to say that someone who will beat her won’t kill her. No house, no job is worth being wrong – I bet Natasha’s mom is wishing she’d moved Natasha, now.
And seriously, where were Clay’s parents in all this?
8:26 am on February 19th, 2008
I’ll never forget this incident. One day, the detective who handled my case was driving me to court to testify, and I had mentioned to him that my ex had written me a letter. Being the idiot that I am, I was telling the detective that maybe I should write him back and tell him how our son is doing. He turned to me and said something to the effect of this: “You have many people going out of their way to protect you and to keep you safe from this guy. For you to then turn around and have contact with him is very unfair to them”. I realized he was sure as hell right, and I promptly decided to hell with any communications!
9:20 am on February 19th, 2008
I was pissed at the police officers when I first read this story, but as the details emerge, I am more pissed at her parents. He posted nude pictures of their underage daughter on the internet and they didn’t press charges? That alone would have made me want to kill him. WTF? I’m sure they were allowing this girl to make many of the decisions herself, HUGE mistake. They probably didn’t want to hurt this boy because their daughter didn’t want them too.
Parents need to parent. Quit trying to be your kids friend.
10:29 am on February 19th, 2008
I guess the police were somewhat more sympathetic in my case since I barely knew the guy and it was clear I wasn’t trying to contact him. But I did discover that I could tell an officer something in my apartment and he could go down the staircase and tell his superior something that was all wrong. A little problem with hear and repeat accurately? What did they really think about me when I wasn’t in front of them? Did they believe me?
A sympathetic detective told me that most of these guys just go away and never do anything physical. It doesn’t make you feel much better when you’re the one being stalked. I thought that if things went bad and I got killed, I’d put “The Exception that Proves the Rule” on my gravestone.
I knew the stalker was planning to move, so I hid. But I regret that I let him go on and probably stalk a woman in his new city. But at the time, it was all I could do to hold myself together and get through it. I can’t imagine what it must be like to actually be attacked by a stalker and still have him out on the street.
I wonder if in this case there was a financial disparity or something else that made him look attractive to the victim despite his behavior. He could buy her things she wanted/needed, he represented a way of life. I’m only speculating based on the photos. No insult or harm is intended to the victim.
11:07 am on February 19th, 2008
My first phone call would be to police, the next phone call would be to his parents & I’d drive them bat-shit crazy until they got him some serious help. He was only 19…most “normal” parents are involved in a young adults life. I have a 19-yr-old and I keep his ass in check! Hell, my parents still play a major role in my life! Where the hell are his parents in all of this?
11:31 am on February 19th, 2008
On Dec 29, Kufner threw ice cream at Hall and struck her in the face. When Hall ran into a Winn-Dixie, Kufner followed her and dragged her out by the hair, a witness told police.
“He dropped her like a sack of potatoes and told me to mind my own business,” David Rice told police. ‘He said he was going to teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his Mustang.”
11:37 am on February 19th, 2008
True words of wisdom.
The question of where are his parents has been asked a couple of times – I’m guessing, maybe that is why the girl and the mom kept feeling sorry for him and trying to let things slide – he had no home or parents or none to really speak of. Just guessing?
When a kid beats up your kid – how do you buy them food or be civil to them in any way? I don’t have a daughter, but if I did and her boyfriend hit her and threatened her – HE would be the one worried about me stalking his ass – like big game. He would be on the defense so fast he would not have time to stalk my daughter any more. How did her mom have all of this compassion for him? Had he been with her so long – he was part of the family? WTH?
And, on the flip side, if my son ever, ever treats a woman like this – he better be watching out for dear ole mom. Back to the “where were his parents” – I do not get to stop being a parent when my son is 18. He may be legal – but he will still be my son and I will still be his mom. I would have to get involved, if my son’s behavior were as such.
11:43 am on February 19th, 2008
What a fucking douchebag!
11:47 am on February 19th, 2008
I thought police had to act in cases of domestic violence whether the victim wanted to press charges or not? In criminal cases, isn’t it the state who is technically pressing charges (for violating the law), not the victim? Those police should have acted more forcefully, regardless of how the families wanted to handle it. That’s what they’re there for. After all, families and teens can be naive…the police, not so much. They _know_ how often these cases turn bad. They _know_ how often a restraining order just triggers the stalker to act out. It’s the police department’s job to know those things–it’s their profession, after all. They should have taken this more seriously, regardless of how or what the parents did. After all, we see oblivious parents on here all the time. People will be oblivious. That’s why we have professionals who get paid to see the seamy side of life and act accordingly. Yeah, if he wanted to kill her, he would find a way no matter what. Doesn’t excuse the police’s seeming to take this too lightly.
I have so many young female students who are confident–falsely–that they can “take care” of themselves and handle any threat that comes their way. Not true. One asshole with a gun, hiding in your bedroom, negates all the moxie and Oprah self-defense tips in the world.
11:56 am on February 19th, 2008
If I am not mistaken, they were not living together. If that is the case, it is not domestic violence.
11:59 am on February 19th, 2008
Where was that POS Rice’s balls? “Teach her a lesson for spilling ice cream in his mustang.” – Please don’t tell me, that lamo David Rice, thought that was a justified reason for not stepping up to help this girl. Maybe he did call the cops, at the time, I don’t know. But why didn’t he help her get away from him or at least keep his attention until the police arrived?
Damn, he just same as said, I’m gonna kick her ass for spilling ice cream in his car. Duh! Be a man and help a girl, DAMN DAMN AND DOUBLE DAMN!!!
12:01 pm on February 19th, 2008
I just peeked at his mom’s myspace.
There are a few messages from people who have “RIP Clay” in their profile names and say things like “He’s in a better place.” Better place? Like hell? Don’t people who believe in an afterlife believe that murder and suicide = hell?
and seriously RIP CLAY? What about “we are sorry Clay is a murdering idiot.” These people disgust me.
12:15 pm on February 19th, 2008
You got that right, sista! I have 2 teenage boys (with my oldest turning 20 this year) & I can promise you they would get a reality check by mom and dad, if we ever thought they were treating a female with such disregard and disrespect. One might call them “mama’s boys”, but this mama will remain a constant in their lives!
12:20 pm on February 19th, 2008
Not necessarily. They can decide whether or not to proceed with any charges, but they arent mandated to.
12:24 pm on February 19th, 2008
I thought it was just the opposite. In domestic violence cases, the woman has the option of pressing charges. To others fighting, or what have you, I thought, if the crime was bad enough, the state could take over the charges and press them whether the victim did or not.
The laws may have changed since my first hand knowledge (this was mid to late 80’s) – I did witness, once, where these two had been in a fight and the loser, who was hurt fairly bad, did not want to press charges. The state took over the case and prosocuted the winner of the fight. They actually had to subpoena the loser of the fight as the state’s witness.
Maybe, the whole domestic thing plays out differently, I don’t know. If not, it should. Most people in a domesctic situation, are too scared to act, at the time. A lot of them will not act until the threat is removed and even then, because of so many violent beatings and threats of more beatings or death – they may not be able, mentally to act on their own behalf, in regards to doing anything that might upset the offender – like getting them arrested and having a restraining order.
I have a friend who was abused as a child, she was warned by her mother, that if she “thought today was bad, just tell someone and see what happens.” She told and her father did not do enough to ensure her mother knew not to hurt her – so the abuse got worse. She never told another soul and just took the abuse. Only, on his death bed, did her father admit to her, “that I should have done more to help you”. Pretty sad.
Just for the record, I did not know this woman when she was a child, so that is why I didn’t stick my BIG NOSE in her business. I know only what I have been told AND I have no reason to doubt her words. I’m just saying, mentally, a lot of abused people do not have the mental strength to stand up for themselves – a concept I cannot understand, but have seen.
12:26 pm on February 19th, 2008
Damn, this prick threatened to burn her house down, and the dumb mom brought him food? My mom would have fed him alright. She would have shoved his own balls down his throat!
12:28 pm on February 19th, 2008
Exactly – even if he’s 60 and I’m 81 – mom will be there to give praise or rag ass, whatever may be needed at the time.
12:29 pm on February 19th, 2008
Thepooh, as of 2001 which is when I had my incident, things are just as you say. The prosecutor who handled my ex’s case said that she would press charges whether I wanted to or not. And that she would subpoened me to come to court, and obviously I would go to jail if I didnt. She also said that if there are children involved, they can have your kids taken away if you dont press charges. They really should do that more often, maybe they do, I dont know.
12:33 pm on February 19th, 2008
Sorry if I offend anyone, but since when did old people start having MySpace pages (a.k.a. Clay’s mom) lmao. I cant imagine either of my parents having or even wanting one. People at my job are pretty much all in agreement that once you hit like, 35 you are too old for a MySpace page. I know, it’s very prejudice. It’s just weird though!
12:33 pm on February 19th, 2008
There again, I’m with you. I hate to bash a mom who just lost her child, BUT DAMN.
What did it take for the mom to write his ass off? Its no wonder the girl was sneaking out to see him – judging by the mom’s actions. And, I use the word “sneaking”, losely. Mom was still buying him food – mom is still showing signs of sympathy for this POS – why would the child not think, “…..o-kay maybe I should just talk to him one more time”. Hell, her mom couldn’t even make a clean break, so why did she expect her daughter to? Damn, lead by example, Mom.
12:41 pm on February 19th, 2008
Why? Myspace is a perfectly easy way for people to keep in touch with friends and family as well as dating. It is a perfect way for families separated by distance, to keep tabs on what is going on with each other’s lives. That’s not even counting how easy it is to reconnect with friends you have lost contact with. The fact that it takes almost no skill whatsoever to use is another draw.
People at your job, including yourself, will all have one (or something equivalent) after 35 as well.
1:43 pm on February 19th, 2008
My cousin doesn’t email me. But now that I have a myspace page, she sends messages to it, notice of which are then forwarded to my email page. I guess she is on myspace more? I don’t know. My other cousin set me up with a blog, which is something that she likes. I can’t even get into my blog, so that was a fizzle!
I don’t get the people like Clay’s mother who put a background on their myspace page that makes it hard to read the entries. It was making me dizzy trying to read all her junk around the running horse picture.
2:03 pm on February 19th, 2008
I hear ya…it started out being a network for pre-teens & teenagers, then Facebook came along for college-aged young adults. I’ve had a hard time jumping on the MySpace bandwagon. I still regard it as a teenage social network. I guess the times are changing. If psychos, pedophiles & rapists can have a MySpace page, what’s stopping us normal middle-aged adults?!?
2:08 pm on February 19th, 2008
What is scarier – 35 will be here before you know it. Its a sneaky bastard.
2:35 pm on February 19th, 2008
Who wants to make a bet that his daddy is a violent, controlling, and abusive SOB? Anyone?
2:49 pm on February 19th, 2008
Mom was off taking glamour shots so she can catch a man on MySpace.
3:07 pm on February 19th, 2008
I wouldn’t bet against it……………….
5:22 pm on February 19th, 2008
Has anybody seem any reports of friends or family defending this guy? Or any reports as to what, if any, actions were being done on HIS end to help diffuse his actions? I find it hard to believe that his family was not aware of at least some of what was happening.
5:29 pm on February 19th, 2008
I cannot find a mention of anything regarding his family, even at this point. I had suggested earlier, that perhaps, he had no one, since even the mom could not just tell him to stay away – some sort of misplaced sympathy for this guy.
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