While perusing the web for my daily douchebag hunt, I ran across this story written by Barb Ickes in the Quad-City Times. I don’t know who she is, or her views on anything aside from this article she wrote. It details her, and others, witnessing something we have all come across in some degree or another…a parent who has obviously lost it with their kids.
I am posting it for no other reason than to get some feedback from you guys. Has the mindset of “not getting involved” gotten us to the point of becoming nothing more than apathetic bystanders who watch these things happen no differently than if we were watching a television program? Are the case after case that get reported on daily numbing people to the heinousness of it all?
Personally, I don’t think it is really possible to pinpoint exactly how certain society mindsets have gotten where they are, good or bad, unless swivel knows already 
. But it does seem as if things are changing a bit. Little by little it seems people are getting involved again. In a lot of reports we have done lately, especially in the case of child abuse, it is being reported that people tried to do something, even if it was to stay within the legal boundaries that have been set and simply notified somebody.
But is that enough right now? What if the people we are to report to are too neutered, to overwhelmed, to bureaucratic to get the job done? What is society to do at that point.
At what point do we as a society, lay our hands on someone?
53 responses so far ↓
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1
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:08 am -To be completely honest, my secret fear is losing it just as this woman did. Kids can really drive you crazy, and sometimes I have to step back from them and remind myself, I love them and I need to be patient, they are just babies. Does that make me a bad mother?
2
ells9824
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:14 am -I think it makes you a wonderful mother.
3
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:19 am -Thank you. Sometimes when you read these stories, it seems as if it’s just a moment of insanity that turns to tragedy. Makes you wonder, how someone who seems normal can just snap.
4
Morbid
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:20 am -Exactly. Besides, I don’t think anyone is against punishment. Hell, I didn’t act up in a store because it took one good swat from my mother the first time I did it to realize it just wasn’t worth it.
However, this woman didn’t just lose it. She lost it. The unkempt kids, the blank stares. I’ve seen it, we have all seen it at some point in our lives. There is a noticeable difference between a mother smacking the hand of a child that just greedily grabbed from the candy aisle, and the scenario that Mrs. Ickes was reporting.
5
ERnurse
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:22 am -momoftwins–I think you are an aware mother who knows you have to step back and get control. I found that going outside just a minute (on the porch or something) and breathing slowly helps. It also helps not to take their bad behavior personally. Get a friend or relative to call if you feel overwhelmed and need to get away awhile. SUPPORT HELPS. 1 is enough, 2 must be really difficult. As a mom I care, and as an ER nurse who has seen way too many horrible things done to kids, I applaud you for being aware and caring . Bad mother? No way.
6
ells9824
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:27 am -The stories can be horrific for sure, but knowing the difference is whats important. That they’re babies, that you need to walk away, sometimes. That you’d rather let them cry a little than make them cry a lot.
When my oldest was a baby my dad told me something that stayed with me when I was whining about her crying all day… he said “didn’t you ever just have a bad day?”
Stunned me. Yes, babies can have bad days and their only way to vent is to cry. Kids have tantrums because they don’t know how to deal with what is going on around them or inside them. They are little people that can suffer from the same crap the rest of us do.
7
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:33 am -Yea, they drive me nuts. Personally I think this is God’s cruel joke because I don’t even like kids. But for some reason I just adore mine. Maybe its those darn maternal instincts, or maybe just because my twins really are the cutest ever.
8
impqueen
Jan 28, 2008 at 11:35 am -Absolutely.
As a mother, I have had to put the baby down in a safe place and walk away more than once. I have let my children cry it out in their cribs. I have put a toddler on time out in a playpen and gone into the other room and wished the Vodka Fairy would bring me some.
As long as you put your child in safe place where they can’t hurt themselves, it’s just fine to put Mommy on time out. One swat on the butt is not going to ruin a child. Corrective swatting is not the same as angry beating, and putting your kid in its room and going to another one to scream into a pillow is not the same as leaving your baby unattended in a bathtub.
Momoftwins, you’re gonna be fine. I can tell you’re a good mom because you have sense enough to worry about these things. It’s the moms who don’t worry that scare me.
9
pms.247
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:03 pm -No, you aren’t a bad mother. You sounds perfectly normal to me. I have four kids, 2 raised and on their own, and 2 still in high school - they are only 20 months apart. All parents get fed up with their kids - especially when they are young and so needy and dependent on us. I didn’t eat a hot meal for years there for awhile. Moms in particular, just deal with it, accept it, and learn to cope. It’s not martyrism, it’s mothering, and is not always easy. They’ll be grown up and on their own in just a few short years (trust me on that) and then you’ll have all the time you want for those hot meals, quiet bubble baths and a spotless house.
You may want to see if the town you live in has a MOPS (Mothers of Preschoolers). They meet once a month - usually in a church, and the kids go off in different rooms (infants included) and are well taken care of, and the moms meet with other moms and have fun for 3 hours. It was my sanity for a few years - finally conversing with grown-ups!
10
solange822001
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:05 pm -Damn, that story is so sad. God only knows what happened to those kids after they got home. Why cant they find this woman??
11
dammitall
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:29 pm -We haven’t “gotten to the point of becoming apathetic bystanders”, we’re actually better now about reporting child abuse than in times past.
Traditionally, what parents did with their kids was their own business–their kids, their business. Dad could impregnate daughters or cornhole sons, Mom could viciously beat them all to death and nobody said boo.
If you want to read something that will break your heart, read . I don’t even particularly like kids (don’t have any, either) and it made me cry.
12
dammitall
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:32 pm -Oh, well, I fucked up the xhtml–the book title is “A Death in White Bear Lake”. Click on the “made me cry” and it’ll link you to it on Amazon.
13
solange822001
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:49 pm -BTW, Momoftwins, I have one 7 year old son, and the thought of having TWO of him is enough to make me break out in a cold sweat
Hang in there, you’re not alone. And like Morbid said, all signs point to this woman not being a mother who just happened to lose her patience. The appearance of the babies, no shoes, etc. This is just an assumption, but I just get the sense of her being mentally ill or a drug/alcohol addict.
14
pms.247
Jan 28, 2008 at 12:56 pm -Where is that picture from, Morbid? It’s so sad…
15
Morbid
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:03 pm -I don’t know the whole story, just know that it is a picture of a baby that had scalding hot milk thrown in it’s face.
16
Hippiepoet
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:08 pm -Every since finding this site, I’ve asked myself, why? Why are so many parents killing their damn children? What is going on in this society of ours?
I’m just an old hippie and country girl, but I have traveled about, and I for one get involved. I admit, it wasn’t always the safest thing, or the smartest thing, maybe, but I am one of these peeps who cannot sit back and watch someone beat the shit out of someone, or hurt a child. I can’t do it. I suppose if I lived in a big city, I’d probably get killed. I know I’ve confronted violence and have had my ass whipped. (again I am sure I am an emotional dumbass and one of these days I’m gonna get it) I’m not sure if I could be quiet, and restrained, it is just not in my nature to do so.
On the other hand I have yelled at my kids in public and have strangers stare at me. I once told a lady, “Please call the fucking cops, I could use some goddamn help.” The baby was crying, my daughter was throwing a fit, and I was almost in tears….you know, one of those days where nothing seemed to go right.
I always figure, if it were me, and I was acting like a total dumb fuck….ya know a day where I forget my meds ;), I’d hope someone would intervene.
17
ashdavus
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:17 pm -I would have to say yes AND no. Yes, I have seen wrongs where children are concerned, but no I did not report every one. I reported the daycare provider who let the children play in the street and left an infant in the home alone. Nothing was ever done. I never reported the woman who left her 2 year old in the care of her 5 year old to play outside alone while she smoked cigarettes and drank coffe with her friends in their apartment. I never reported the woman who left her 18 month old to wander around alone outside while she read magazines and watched soap operas all day. Yet these people felt the need to report me for yelling on one ocassion and on another for spanking my son in the yard. It’s sad that in my experience I have found the people who are busiest judging the way others care for their children are the ones who are neglecting their own. I do notice children in public. I recall once seeing a couple with two kids in the grocery store. The kids were probably 8 & 9, certainly old enough to wash up and wear clean clothes. They were BLACK with filth. That was 11 years ago, I can still see those kids. I’ve seen babies being carried around in 14 degree weather wearing nothing but a onesie and socks; children riding without car seats; filthy toddlers in stores.
I would never take my children out dirty or half dressed. I know people will look at my children and judge me, I do the same to other parents. I have spoken loudly to my kids in a store. Recently, in fact. But they are 10 & 13 and were pushing and fighting, so I loudly growled at them through my clenched teeth. Never though, have I yelled at a baby or dragged a toddler through a store. At that age, they don’t know any better. They only know what they have been taught. at 10 & 13, they know better.
18
Miss. Hill
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:46 pm -This is a lot of the problem it seems the agencies that are contacted are either overloaded, short handed, numb, or plain stupid. I have seen 1st hand a situation that in my opinion warranted immediate action for the safety of the children. I personally called and begged on answering machines and spoke to supervisors with no action taken, and an unfortunate outcome.
Common sense is key. When does a situation warrant a phone call. As parents we are human and lose our patience and sometimes this happens in public. My youngest was colic, I worked from home for 3 years. He was horrible at the grocery store and until the last year I had no family to watch my child. I had to take him everywhere and relied on my older son to help me keep my sanity. My point, my son hated grocery shopping (he grew out of this thankfully) He would scream at the top of his lungs this ear piercing screech that could break glass. I just ignored him and did what I had to do as fast as possible, we need to eat. I had a handful of people comment: “mommy maybe baby needs a nap”, “why is he so upset”, eyes rolled, rude comments while walking by, or the can’t she shut that baby up, where I lost my mind and told this old woman to mind her own business, and other choice words. It felt like I was under a microscope there were a few women that walked by me with the “I’m sorry” nod. I would expect someone to intervene in an obvious harmful situation to the child. But people’s opinions vary on how to reprimand children.
19
Morbid
Jan 28, 2008 at 1:55 pm -I like how people WITHOUT children seem to always have to answers and advice to the ones who actually do. I giggle with glee when those same people, years later, are now in the same boat I was…but with a new addition to their family. The bags under the eyes, the dazed look, the newfound ability to ignore a child crying.
Anyway, you will always have people judging your parenting skills, choices, decisions. That will never change. But in cases like this one, or Rowan Ford, or the family left rotting with the mother, or the kids dragged out of a Wal-Mart…there was something OBVIOUSLY, severely wrong. It is real easy to sit in a forum and type out how if you ever saw a person doing something like that, how you would kung-fu chop the offender in the throat and whisk the child to safety and a nice, tall glass of milk and some chocolate chip cookies.
But would you really? I mean, could you get involved? Would you step in and do something?
20
Miss. Hill
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:07 pm -Honestly I would but most likely anonymously.
If a child was being literally beaten in front of me dam straight I would intervene! I would at very least comment to the pos parent while I was calling the cops. I would attempt to get license plate number something along that lines. I am a firm believer of mind your own business but something as serious as a child being beaten is a whole different story.
21
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:29 pm -Yes but there has to be a fine line, people want you to control your kids but if you spank them in public or speak loudly to them then you are a child abuser. Usually kids don’t listen unless they know you mean business. They get excited and then you have to know how to get through to them. Sometimes a swat on the bottom is neccesary, and if someone came up and told me I was a child abuser for swatting my kids behind then we’re going to fight.
22
What Would Satan Do
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:35 pm -I think that, much like being a parent, what someone does when they witness some form of abuse is an unknown until they’re thrown into the situation first hand. The majority of abusers are smart enough to keep their most heinous abuse behind closed doors. The kind of stuff many of us would not think twice about stopping, and would have a legal right to do so. I would love to jump in and save a child from serious abuse but, I’d also be afraid of prosecuted for assault on the parent (I’m sure just saying “hey, stop that!” wouldn’t do much good, there would have to be a physical intervention) and kidnapping (for separating a child from it’s parent). As for the system that’s supposed to protect children, one of my friends started at Child Protective Services about four years ago, then was moved to their sexual assault division. Between the sheer number of cases he gets, the red-tape and hoops that have to be jumped through to protect a child in obvious need of help, and having to see the disgusting things people do to children on a daily basis…he’s ready for a new job. Talking to him over the years I’ve heard him go from excited to go to work, to frustrated, to just plain depressed. It’s not suprising to me that these jobs have such a high turn-over / burnout rate.
23
ells9824
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:39 pm -I think there is even a line there, though. A couple years ago, I think she was 8, my daughter wanted a toy from Target. She would not make a decision and was lobbying for more spending money. I told her I was leaving that aisle and she needed to come with me. I left, she finally chased after me, and BIT my hand. I smacked her on the butt and told her the next time she did that she was sleeping in the guest bedroom for a week (no tv,games,toys etc) It did not happen again. She may not have known what I would do, but she found out, and did not repeat that little episode.
Now on the other hand, I was at K mart last week and this woman was telling her son he should respect her, because his grandmother is nothing but an old whore but she still respects her because its her mom… I was dumbfounded. I’m forty and I still respect your whore of a grandmother because she gave birth to me, she never did me nothing else, but I respect the Old Whore. On and on about the old whore… Yeah, that respect just glows, you can see it for miles.
24
Hippiepoet
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:41 pm -I would and have gotten involved. Maybe it’s the nurse in me, maybe my compassionate heart, or maybe I am just a dumb ass. One reason I open my mouth….in my early twenties, I was married to a man who had an alcohol problem, after six years of marriage he decided to use me as his anger outlet. (married at 19…way too young) He beat my ass pretty bad once on a street where people were meandering about, a town picnic was going on with music and food….etc., no one, not one fucking person helped me. It pissed me off and I vowed never to sit back and watch someone get hurt. I’ll call the cops right away on someone. I’ll yell FIRE to get peeps attention and I’ve screamed my fucking head off at people to get attention to situations where I knew intervening could endanger myself or my family….and yes, as I’ve said before, I’ve intervened in shit, and had my ass knocked the fuck down….thing was it only drew that much more attention, which is a good thing. I don’t know maybe it takes something like my ex-husband beating my ass, and choking me until I passed out, to realize these things, that we as a family of humans, MUST help each other, in hours of need. Whether it be calling the cops, yelling, screaming, or even possibly the need for bodily contact. Speaking for myself, I feel the need to get involved, in some way.
25
What Would Satan Do
Jan 28, 2008 at 2:43 pm -I think if anyone told you that you were an abuser for disciplining your children then they probably:
don’t have children of their own
or if they do, their children walk all over them
or they have neither been a victim of, nor seen actual abuse.
You sound like a great mom to me!
26
ashdavus
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:02 pm -Yes, I agree. Remember the woman who was video-taped punching her kid in the face in a store parking lot by a security camera? That, as I recall, was the incident that set the whole world on fire in regards to discipline. I remember when my son was 3 & 4 it was so bad people were just afraid to give a swat in public. If he misbehaved in a store and started screaming or throwing a tantrum I would hurry my cart down a vacant aisle and smack him on the leg quick before anyone else could come in the aisle.
27
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:24 pm -Thanks, I’m all right. Not the best, but not the worst. I guess what really separates us from the child abusers is that one moment when you stop and take a deep breath and remind yourself that these areyour children, and its your job to protect them.
28
taintfutcha
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:39 pm -first post here-
i vowed long ago when i was a kid that i wouldnt *look the other way*.
it isnt always clear to me what i should do when it involves adults. but with children and animals i seem to be very adept at stepping in it. i’m no savior or martyr-more of a big probiscus in your face type. i’ve been lucky to not have a gun go off in my gob-i have taken a few whacks for my trouble..but nothing worse than how i’ve smited myself.
i always think of a pink floyd song; “on the turning away.”
no more turning away, from the pale and downtrodden..
i can’t see/hear and not do something-haunts me too deeply. i am the sort who hasnt much in the way of embarassment or loss of words in most any situation.
having my own chilluns has secured my feelings even deeper-and also tempered my methods.
i hope i never feel that i no longer “care” what i see enough to try and change it.
cheers all-
29
Morbid
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:48 pm -And hopefully not your last. Welcome to the site.
30
Hippiepoet
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:56 pm -Yes, mom of twins, and by the way, I commend you. I cannot imagine having twins, I’m not so sure if I could have handled it. My husband is an identical twin, and his mother tells some stories where I just cry, thinking of what she went through. Both my babies were colicky and my god, I thought I’d go insane. We are human, and it’s okay to yell, scream, punch the shit out of pillows, throw shit (as long as no one is in the way), and yes sometimes we spank and smack. I remember once I swatted my one year old on the butt several times when I was really tired from working, and my god, I cried for hours afterward. I hated myself for being tired and losing my temper. I knew it wasn’t her fault that I was so tired. I remember calling my older sister and her giving me one of those, get for real convos. “Get over it”, she said, “the baby’s fine, now get some rest”. *rolls eyes* I have little patience with my kids, but I yell, and send them to another room, or I go to another room. I’ve learned from past experience, spanking them usually hurts me more then them.
Grounding the eleven yr old, seems more painful then a butt whooping, lol and the five yr old, I just threaten to take away TV or PS2 privileges and he’s in line.
31
taintfutcha
Jan 28, 2008 at 3:58 pm -thankee kind sir (?)
32
Morbid
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:08 pm -If the question mark is for thanking me in general, feel confident in the fact that I deserve it. If the question mark is for alluding to the fact that you are not sure if I am kind, that would all depend on what you consider being mean is. I don’t bash in baby skulls, but I do pull hair. If you were simply questioning whether or not I am a sir, then I am here to put that thought to rest. I am all man. In fact, I am so manly, I exude such high levels of testosterone that when I walk by females, they instantaneously grow testicles, and they drop at the same time. It’s a medical fact.
33
taintfutcha
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:17 pm -ahhh-that puts to rest the query of the sudden weight i feel in my knickers.
i see your kindness knows no bounds and my gratitude is beyond deserved-
your servant, m’lord
you are as kind as you are divine
34
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:17 pm -I feel like I’m growing a pair just from reading this
35
WryBread
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:22 pm -MomofTwins — good parents are heros — and you sound like a good parent.
I did not have a happy childhood and do not have children. Part of the reason, though not all, is that I knew I could not handle the unceasing demands of small children. I could see myself putting the baby in the chest of drawers and reading a book until all was quiet. I am not a natural mother and would have made a great father — coming home at the end of the day — lol.
36
aspartame
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:30 pm -remind me not to stand next to you…the last thing i want is harry nuts!
but really, my sister has 3 children, and as a teaching tool she made Mr Listen. he was a rolled up newspaper. and if you did not listen then Mr Listen would come out and swat you on the fanny. some times just saying “do you want Mr Listen?” and they would shut it. well one day my sister was in the mall, and my niece who can be a hell cat at times was acting a fool, well she took out Mr Listen and swatted her butt, and a woman came over to her and ripped Mr. Listen out of her hand and called mall security telling them that my sister was beating her children in the mall.
My sister was soo horrified that she could possibly be harming the children tossed out Mr. Listen. Now my Brats as i call them have no fear of punishment, the worst that happens is they get sent to the room. which has the TV, Internet, so its not a big deal.
(also my sister is one of the people in the world whos heart is bigger than her brain:) )
and yes the girls are little monsters because of it…
37
mg
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:30 pm -“When the clerk called 911, she was told that others already had called.”
I dont understand if the cops had already been called why were they not on the way? They are now looking for her, if they had gone to the store on time they would have found her.
38
dammitall
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:30 pm -Thanks a whole hell of a lot.
My husband shot me a look, got in the car and drove away. I don’t know if I’ll ever see him again.
39
WryBread
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:32 pm -One thing that I observe in parents that bothers me isn’t physical abuse, it’s humiliating the child in public.
The other day I was in an office and a mother and child came to visit. The girl wanted to show me her report on jaguars. So I read it and looked at the pictures. It was a child’s effort, but I could tell she had worked very hard on it and was proud.
Suddenly, her mother said loudly, “You are talking that lady’s ear off! She’s going to be so glad that you’re leaving.” The hurt and suprised look on the little girl’s face made me feel terrible. Luckily, when the girl looked at me she saw that I was not nodding “yes” and her face cleared.
I said to her mother, “I thought jaguars were in Africa, but they are in the Americas. And they can have up to four babies. Wouldn’t that be cute to see?” And the mother just stared at her daughter as if perplexed that something she did was of interest to anyone.
I don’t get it — do you all have any insight? Not being a parent, I don’t want to essay theories, and would appreciate some feedback on this. I see it all the time. It’s as if the parents have written off the kids’ personalities and abilities. But I know they love their kids, so what’s at work here?
40
WryBread
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:39 pm -My gosh, my dream has come true! I can be a Dad instead of a Mom! Thank you, DD!
41
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:39 pm -Not me. My twins are 16 months old and I think everything they do is so adorable, no kid has ever done it so well before. In fact I am surprised whenever people don’t tell me how beautiful and wonderful my children are.
42
WryBread
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:40 pm -See? What lucky kids they are!
43
aspartame
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:46 pm -and the fact that you even care enough to think about if you are a good enough parent makes you a wonderful one…
IMHO
44
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:51 pm -ok, thank you everyone! I guess I am a wonderful mom. Yay! Now I feel good. Now if I could just win that darn lottery everything would be perfect…
45
ells9824
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:52 pm -I think for us its the appropriateness of the subject and the person. My son will tell anyone anything, and we’re working on that. I’m sure people think I’m a bitch, but I told him to be super good in the mall. He starts telling the Burger King guy stuff about a video game, and we’re not in BK’s line. Kid, not the time for that-people don’t want to know you have every single mario game EV-ER…. leaving church and telling the Pastor it was his baptism anniversary.. eh, that’s okay.
46
Ruby
Jan 28, 2008 at 4:55 pm -Sometimes it’s overcompensation. Nothing I hate more than doting parents droning on and on about the accomplishments of their little pookie-pie who just did something phenomenally superior like pooping in his diaper or something. Seriously. I so hate parents who think everyone wants to know every detail of their little darlin’s day that I think I swing the other way. If someone actually asks my kid to tell about herself, I only let it go on for a couple of moments before I am jumping in to “save” the person from my kid. LOL. I am definitely not trying to shame my children, but I can see how I maybe jump in too soon in an effort to not inconvenience anyone. Sigh….more to work on.
As for the rest….I am with Wrybread in that I am not a natural mother and am definitely not cut out for it. I also never really babysat and had no younger siblings or nieces, nephews, cousins, etc. The upshot being that I had almost no close exposure to small children until I had mine. Despite the fact that I had my kids when I was 38 and 40, and thought I was all-growed-up and ready to take it on, I have to say that the reality has been difficult for me to come to terms with. I don’t think I was quite prepared for how INCESSANT they are. It can try the most devoted and loving parent.
When you add into the mix things like dire financial straits, drug or alcohol addiction, or lack of education, I can imagine how it can become too much for some people. I really can see how the line gets crossed. The question for me is, what can we, as a society, do to better prepare people for the adventure of parenthood? What can we do to offer better access to and counseling about birth control and adoption? What counseling and support services could we be offering to new moms — particularly in at-risk communities?
We aren’t a nation of neighborhoods and small, tight-knit communities, anymore, and intervention seems to not get handled organically as we all would hope it would. So….is this something that can (or should) be legislated? I don’t really think so, but am open to hear what you all think. I think there are limits to what we can, and should, expect government or law enforcement to be responsible for. But when we’ve got 16-year-olds on the street with babies, or meth-heads popping out children and refusing treatment, trouble is bound to follow….sometimes sooner, sometimes later….but trouble is a-coming.
What should be done?
47
WryBread
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:08 pm -I’d love see someone come up with a substitute for the communities that took a generation or two to develop. But what could that be?
Here’s one thing that surprised me. We have Civil War reenactors where I live. They had a Civil War dance that I attended. It was so refreshing and unusual to see several families, people of all ages, having fun together and enjoying each other. The children and teens of reenactors say that they learn to appreciate their families because they have time away from the tv and the mall.
Maybe the tv and the mall are part of the problem. I don’t know.
48
momoftwins
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:16 pm -I think the problem is that we don’t hold people accountable for their actions anymore. If you do something wrong, there is always an excuse for it. People are who they are. If you are going to be a druggie and kill your child, that is your decision and I don’t think you should be able to blame it on a poor upbringing or bad parents or any of the other myriad of pathetic excuses that we hear all the time. Everyone has baggage and everyone has shitty things that happen to them. That’s life. How you deal with it is up to you.
Let me get off my soap box here. Hopefully I have not offended everyone with my conservative, anti- politically correct ramble…
49
aspartame
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:25 pm -not to sound to ignorant but they really do that?? i thought that was just on TV…learn somthing new everyday!
50
thepooh5
Jan 28, 2008 at 5:36 pm -