Sarah Kreager Dragged Off Public Bus And Beaten

Sorry, but aren’t ALL crimes hate crimes?

Anyway, I saw this in the news this weekend and the first thing that came to my mind was, “I can’t believe these parents are defending their kids!” What a way to teach personal responsibility.

and PLEASE
““It wasn’t a hate crime,” said one of the girl’s mother, Monalisa Carter. “That’s so untrue. I did not raise her that way. Britny is not a racial person. She has white friends, black friends; she gets along with everybody.””

so you didn’t raise her to be racist, but you did raise her to go be a public menace and to gang up on a woman and beat her this badly? Un-fucking-believable.

Sorry, but aren’t ALL crimes hate crimes?

Anyway, I saw this in the news this weekend and the first thing that came to my mind was, “I can’t believe these parents are defending their kids!” What a way to teach personal responsibility.

and PLEASE
““It wasn’t a hate crime,” said one of the girl’s mother, Monalisa Carter. “That’s so untrue. I did not raise her that way. Britny is not a racial person. She has white friends, black friends; she gets along with everybody.””

so you didn’t raise her to be racist, but you did raise her to go be a public menace and to gang up on a woman and beat her this badly? Un-fucking-believable.

Hate crime = Crime motivated by hate for a race!!! So no, not all crimes are hate crimes.

Again shitty kids raised by, more than likely, shitty parents.

I should have been more specific. I meant crimes such as assault, murder, rape. Crimes against the physical being of another person. Are you telling me that these crimes are not done with malice for the victim? Is that not hate? Should the serial killers/ rapists who attack women because they hate them also be convicted under hate crime laws? Are you only protected if you are a member of a minority group by race or sexual preference? Is your violation any less if you are not a member of one of these groups? Is your life worth less time?

To me, hate crime laws are a joke. they are only there to “make up” for the fact that crimes against minorities and homosexuals are already treated less seriously. Now we have to prove it was a hate crime to get EQUAL treatment under the law. You need to fix the system that allows a white man to get less time for killing a black woman than that same man for killing a white woman. People are people. a life is a life. Just because I was born with my skin tinted a specific color or choose to have sexual relations with a person of the same sex should not give me more or less protection under the law than anyone else.

But yeah, shitty kids raised by shitty parents.

I should have been more specific. I meant crimes such as assault, murder, rape. Crimes against the physical being of another person. Are you telling me that these crimes are not done with malice for the victim? Is that not hate? Should the serial killers/ rapists who attack women because they hate them also be convicted under hate crime laws? Are you only protected if you are a member of a minority group by race or sexual preference? Is your violation any less if you are not a member of one of these groups? Is your life worth less time?

To me, hate crime laws are a joke. they are only there to “make up” for the fact that crimes against minorities and homosexuals are already treated less seriously. Now we have to prove it was a hate crime to get EQUAL treatment under the law. You need to fix the system that allows a white man to get less time for killing a black woman than that same man for killing a white woman. People are people. a life is a life. Just because I was born with my skin tinted a specific color or choose to have sexual relations with a person of the same sex should not give me more or less protection under the law than anyone else.

But yeah, shitty kids raised by shitty parents.

Now I see what you actually meant. Totally agree! None of the crimes should be treated differently than any other crime; with the exception of a crime against a child I think.

Now I see what you actually meant. Totally agree! None of the crimes should be treated differently than any other crime; with the exception of a crime against a child I think.

Now I see what you actually meant. Totally agree! None of the crimes should be treated differently than any other crime; with the exception of a crime against a child I think.

It’s a sad crime, kids running in groups and menacing people, doesn’t matter what freaking color, these kids need to be tought that if you want to live in society you live by the rules. If you choose not too, bye bye.

It’s a sad crime, kids running in groups and menacing people, doesn’t matter what freaking color, these kids need to be tought that if you want to live in society you live by the rules. If you choose not too, bye bye.

Kathy–I totally agree with you on the hate-crime thing.

Okay, now back up, if this were WHITE teens beating a BLACK woman, what would it be considered? A hate crime. I don’t see what the fucking big deal is when it’s reversed. Everyone can be racist. Do I think the kids were racist? They are probably more along the line of assholes; however, again, if it were white kids, people would more readily put the hate-crime stamp on this.

I think hate-crimes in general are bullshit. We should have stiffer laws for violent crimes, no matter what the motive is. Also, it’s hard to prove what motivates crime, anyway. So, someone’s getting fucked no matter what.

Kathy–I totally agree with you on the hate-crime thing.

Okay, now back up, if this were WHITE teens beating a BLACK woman, what would it be considered? A hate crime. I don’t see what the fucking big deal is when it’s reversed. Everyone can be racist. Do I think the kids were racist? They are probably more along the line of assholes; however, again, if it were white kids, people would more readily put the hate-crime stamp on this.

I think hate-crimes in general are bullshit. We should have stiffer laws for violent crimes, no matter what the motive is. Also, it’s hard to prove what motivates crime, anyway. So, someone’s getting fucked no matter what.

Heather, unfortunately I think you are right. But people need to learn that you can’t have it both ways. That’s why they need to get rid of these laws.

Heather, unfortunately I think you are right. But people need to learn that you can’t have it both ways. That’s why they need to get rid of these laws.

Heather, unfortunately I think you are right. But people need to learn that you can’t have it both ways. That’s why they need to get rid of these laws.

Gotta love Bmore. Charm City baby! The land of pleasant livng.

Gotta love Bmore. Charm City baby! The land of pleasant livng.

I agree that hate crimes are bullshit and have from the moment they were first brought up. Not only because of how asinine they are by definition (I mean come on. If I kill someone who is black because they are black and my brother kills someone who is black because he thought it would be fun, I get stiffer penalty for murder? Ridiculous.) but also in the fact that everyone knew that if they were put into place, they would only be used in two circumstances. A gay being assaulted for being gay, or a white man assaulting a black man. Period. I have not done any research, yet, but I am curious as to how many times a race based hate crime was successfully put through the legal system, and the ethnic details of the parties involved. Let’s not even get into how hate crimes can (and do) piss in the face of objective justice. DAMN I love my commas!

I agree that hate crimes are bullshit and have from the moment they were first brought up. Not only because of how asinine they are by definition (I mean come on. If I kill someone who is black because they are black and my brother kills someone who is black because he thought it would be fun, I get stiffer penalty for murder? Ridiculous.) but also in the fact that everyone knew that if they were put into place, they would only be used in two circumstances. A gay being assaulted for being gay, or a white man assaulting a black man. Period. I have not done any research, yet, but I am curious as to how many times a race based hate crime was successfully put through the legal system, and the ethnic details of the parties involved. Let’s not even get into how hate crimes can (and do) piss in the face of objective justice. DAMN I love my commas!

I agree that hate crimes are bullshit and have from the moment they were first brought up. Not only because of how asinine they are by definition (I mean come on. If I kill someone who is black because they are black and my brother kills someone who is black because he thought it would be fun, I get stiffer penalty for murder? Ridiculous.) but also in the fact that everyone knew that if they were put into place, they would only be used in two circumstances. A gay being assaulted for being gay, or a white man assaulting a black man. Period. I have not done any research, yet, but I am curious as to how many times a race based hate crime was successfully put through the legal system, and the ethnic details of the parties involved. Let’s not even get into how hate crimes can (and do) piss in the face of objective justice. DAMN I love my commas!

9 to 1 huh? Wow, what a bunch of pussy’s. Unbelievable. How many people were on the bus? It is sad to think, that there were probably many folks around and no one but her boyfriend stepped in to help? Parents raising their kids to hate and be mean. How sad. Thank fucking goodness they didn’t kill her. Right on, to the lady that stepped out of her house. Sister probably saved that chicks life.

I must say, it’s refreshing to see so many against the ridiculousness that is hate crime legislation. Nobly intended, it may be, but the application is questionable. Also, no specific motivation should be taken more seriously than the next. Racism is no worse a motivation than is greed, jealousy, etc.

Here are the 2002 known hate crime offenders by race:

Total 7,314

White 4,517
Black 1,592
American Indian/Alaskan Native 43
Asian/Pacific Islander 87
Multiple Races, Group 355
Unknown Race 720

this happened to a girl i know. basiclly her and her friends got the shit kicked out of them by a group of young black kids, (just for being white). and i say kids because are from 12-17.

the group was convicted of a hate crime, and got probation.

i attached the links to the storys.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732373/posts

http://cbs2.com/local/Halloween.Attack.Long.2.527710.html

this happened to a girl i know. basiclly her and her friends got the shit kicked out of them by a group of young black kids, (just for being white). and i say kids because are from 12-17.

the group was convicted of a hate crime, and got probation.

i attached the links to the storys.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732373/posts

http://cbs2.com/local/Halloween.Attack.Long.2.527710.html

this happened to a girl i know. basiclly her and her friends got the shit kicked out of them by a group of young black kids, (just for being white). and i say kids because are from 12-17.

the group was convicted of a hate crime, and got probation.

i attached the links to the storys.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1732373/posts

http://cbs2.com/local/Halloween.Attack.Long.2.527710.html

ridiculous! in my opinion, I would have to call this a bad case of neglect on the part of nine sets of parents. I wonder how many of those parents actually know their kids friends, where they are at any given time, and what ‘activities’ they are participating in. i doubt any of the 9 left home with a “see ya later Mom. The group and I are gonna go kick the shit out of a white bitch this afternoon.”
More than likely it was something like “I’m going out”, if they said anything at all. You can claim to raise your kids not to be that way, but if you have no clue or no interest in what they’re doing with their time then you’re just wasting yours.

ridiculous! in my opinion, I would have to call this a bad case of neglect on the part of nine sets of parents. I wonder how many of those parents actually know their kids friends, where they are at any given time, and what ‘activities’ they are participating in. i doubt any of the 9 left home with a “see ya later Mom. The group and I are gonna go kick the shit out of a white bitch this afternoon.”
More than likely it was something like “I’m going out”, if they said anything at all. You can claim to raise your kids not to be that way, but if you have no clue or no interest in what they’re doing with their time then you’re just wasting yours.

ridiculous! in my opinion, I would have to call this a bad case of neglect on the part of nine sets of parents. I wonder how many of those parents actually know their kids friends, where they are at any given time, and what ‘activities’ they are participating in. i doubt any of the 9 left home with a “see ya later Mom. The group and I are gonna go kick the shit out of a white bitch this afternoon.”
More than likely it was something like “I’m going out”, if they said anything at all. You can claim to raise your kids not to be that way, but if you have no clue or no interest in what they’re doing with their time then you’re just wasting yours.

WTF is our society coming to? I am interested to see what kind of sentences these people will receive. I also wonder if the publicity will sway the sentencing.
I know someone who was in an abusive relationship and was burned in the face with a cigarette. Recently, her husband (not the person who burned her) came too close to her face with a cigarette and she knocked it out of his mouth. She went to jail, and was charged with assault.

WTF is our society coming to? I am interested to see what kind of sentences these people will receive. I also wonder if the publicity will sway the sentencing.
I know someone who was in an abusive relationship and was burned in the face with a cigarette. Recently, her husband (not the person who burned her) came too close to her face with a cigarette and she knocked it out of his mouth. She went to jail, and was charged with assault.

If this case were reversed, and the victim was black and beaten by a group of white kids, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be making sure their faces and big mouths were all over every local and cable news network possible, stirring the pot and making everything worse with their threats and speeches against hate crimes and racism. I’d love to see those two come out of hiding now and say something supportive of this girl and her boyfriend, but it will never happen. The victims here are not black, and Jackson and Sharpton only see that one color. They are cowards.

If this case were reversed, and the victim was black and beaten by a group of white kids, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be making sure their faces and big mouths were all over every local and cable news network possible, stirring the pot and making everything worse with their threats and speeches against hate crimes and racism. I’d love to see those two come out of hiding now and say something supportive of this girl and her boyfriend, but it will never happen. The victims here are not black, and Jackson and Sharpton only see that one color. They are cowards.

If this case were reversed, and the victim was black and beaten by a group of white kids, the Reverend Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would be making sure their faces and big mouths were all over every local and cable news network possible, stirring the pot and making everything worse with their threats and speeches against hate crimes and racism. I’d love to see those two come out of hiding now and say something supportive of this girl and her boyfriend, but it will never happen. The victims here are not black, and Jackson and Sharpton only see that one color. They are cowards.

I think those 9 kids are a bunch of shitheaded fuckwads. When I was 14/15 yrs old I think I was more interested in
going to the mall and looking for cute boys, listening to music, and watching movies with my friends, not beating the shit out of someone on a city bus.

What was going through those kids minds anyway? I wonder if they do this kind of thing on a regular basis.

A hate crime, such a stupid label. Crime is crime, no matter what color the fucking asshole(s) are.

I think those 9 kids are a bunch of shitheaded fuckwads. When I was 14/15 yrs old I think I was more interested in
going to the mall and looking for cute boys, listening to music, and watching movies with my friends, not beating the shit out of someone on a city bus.

What was going through those kids minds anyway? I wonder if they do this kind of thing on a regular basis.

A hate crime, such a stupid label. Crime is crime, no matter what color the fucking asshole(s) are.

I think those 9 kids are a bunch of shitheaded fuckwads. When I was 14/15 yrs old I think I was more interested in
going to the mall and looking for cute boys, listening to music, and watching movies with my friends, not beating the shit out of someone on a city bus.

What was going through those kids minds anyway? I wonder if they do this kind of thing on a regular basis.

A hate crime, such a stupid label. Crime is crime, no matter what color the fucking asshole(s) are.

Expecting Jackson and Sharpton to speak out against all brands of racism is like expecting the Pope to speak out against all brands of religious persecution. While it would be nice, it’s not really their job. Whites do not require such advocates, really. If you look at the numbers I posted you’ll see why.

There were approximately 4,500 white offenders victimising roughly 25% of the population (assuming victims were any type of minority). On the other hand, you’ve got roughly 2,500 minority offenders victimising approximately 75% of the population.

Based on those numbers alone, a minority is still MUCH more likely to be the victim of a hate crime. As a result, some civil rights leaders feel the need to focus their efforts. I happen to think that Jackson and Sharpton are ridiculous, but I can’t say I blame them for being one-sided.

Expecting Jackson and Sharpton to speak out against all brands of racism is like expecting the Pope to speak out against all brands of religious persecution. While it would be nice, it’s not really their job. Whites do not require such advocates, really. If you look at the numbers I posted you’ll see why.

There were approximately 4,500 white offenders victimising roughly 25% of the population (assuming victims were any type of minority). On the other hand, you’ve got roughly 2,500 minority offenders victimising approximately 75% of the population.

Based on those numbers alone, a minority is still MUCH more likely to be the victim of a hate crime. As a result, some civil rights leaders feel the need to focus their efforts. I happen to think that Jackson and Sharpton are ridiculous, but I can’t say I blame them for being one-sided.

Well I’m black and I think this behavior is awful and they need their little butts in Juvie….QUICK! But The Rev. Jessie Jackson comment was not fair……ALL black people don’t think just because white people are involved that it’s racial OR that whites are out to “GET US” but we can still aware of the injustices.
I moved to Phoenix AZ two years ago and my husband and I (both mixed) and our 2 BLACK friends were hanging out minding our own business next thing you know we are being surrounded by about 25 white teens yelling “F*ck you nigg*rs” (our ages are between 29-36…& we were leaving happy hour after WORK) I tried to talk them into calming down, there was no cursing and screaming from our side, we are ALL professional adults with children……..long story short……..I got my bootie beat like a..WELL….A 30yr old trying to fight 5 teen girls..( 3 girls jumped on my other girlfriend and the rest jumped on my husband and his friend…so much for a first blind date) The cops broke up the “fight” and arrested 8 of them and 14 in all had to appear in court for disorderly conduct. NONE of us (all 4) got arrested……..WAS that a HATE CRIME or was that a bunch of DRUNK 18yr old college freshmen out of control one night? Myself my husband and our friends didn’t get arrested but WE got handcuffed and ticketed for disorderly conduct and had to spend 8 months going back and fourth to court(????????????????????? WTF)……we finally had to hire our friend who’s an attorney to get the charges dismissed (even w/ his discount it’s not fair WE had to pay anything). When our lawyer got the police report it CLEARLY states from the officers that…four black/hispanic adults were “fighting” 18-24 white teens when they arrived on the scene……We were defending ourself, thats it! And the ONLY reason those 8 got arrested is because they continued to act up after the police showed up. No hate crime was filed and Rev. Jackson didn’t show up to defend us! Even though I’m still mad at those little jerks who need some home training and JUVIE for what happened……I can not say they were RACIST for a FACT and I actually believe they were just 18(yrs old) drunk and being VERY STUPID, and the first group of people they came across was going to get beat up that night, blk, wht, or other!

Well I’m black and I think this behavior is awful and they need their little butts in Juvie….QUICK! But The Rev. Jessie Jackson comment was not fair……ALL black people don’t think just because white people are involved that it’s racial OR that whites are out to “GET US” but we can still aware of the injustices.
I moved to Phoenix AZ two years ago and my husband and I (both mixed) and our 2 BLACK friends were hanging out minding our own business next thing you know we are being surrounded by about 25 white teens yelling “F*ck you nigg*rs” (our ages are between 29-36…& we were leaving happy hour after WORK) I tried to talk them into calming down, there was no cursing and screaming from our side, we are ALL professional adults with children……..long story short……..I got my bootie beat like a..WELL….A 30yr old trying to fight 5 teen girls..( 3 girls jumped on my other girlfriend and the rest jumped on my husband and his friend…so much for a first blind date) The cops broke up the “fight” and arrested 8 of them and 14 in all had to appear in court for disorderly conduct. NONE of us (all 4) got arrested……..WAS that a HATE CRIME or was that a bunch of DRUNK 18yr old college freshmen out of control one night? Myself my husband and our friends didn’t get arrested but WE got handcuffed and ticketed for disorderly conduct and had to spend 8 months going back and fourth to court(????????????????????? WTF)……we finally had to hire our friend who’s an attorney to get the charges dismissed (even w/ his discount it’s not fair WE had to pay anything). When our lawyer got the police report it CLEARLY states from the officers that…four black/hispanic adults were “fighting” 18-24 white teens when they arrived on the scene……We were defending ourself, thats it! And the ONLY reason those 8 got arrested is because they continued to act up after the police showed up. No hate crime was filed and Rev. Jackson didn’t show up to defend us! Even though I’m still mad at those little jerks who need some home training and JUVIE for what happened……I can not say they were RACIST for a FACT and I actually believe they were just 18(yrs old) drunk and being VERY STUPID, and the first group of people they came across was going to get beat up that night, blk, wht, or other!

Well I’m black and I think this behavior is awful and they need their little butts in Juvie….QUICK! But The Rev. Jessie Jackson comment was not fair……ALL black people don’t think just because white people are involved that it’s racial OR that whites are out to “GET US” but we can still aware of the injustices.
I moved to Phoenix AZ two years ago and my husband and I (both mixed) and our 2 BLACK friends were hanging out minding our own business next thing you know we are being surrounded by about 25 white teens yelling “F*ck you nigg*rs” (our ages are between 29-36…& we were leaving happy hour after WORK) I tried to talk them into calming down, there was no cursing and screaming from our side, we are ALL professional adults with children……..long story short……..I got my bootie beat like a..WELL….A 30yr old trying to fight 5 teen girls..( 3 girls jumped on my other girlfriend and the rest jumped on my husband and his friend…so much for a first blind date) The cops broke up the “fight” and arrested 8 of them and 14 in all had to appear in court for disorderly conduct. NONE of us (all 4) got arrested……..WAS that a HATE CRIME or was that a bunch of DRUNK 18yr old college freshmen out of control one night? Myself my husband and our friends didn’t get arrested but WE got handcuffed and ticketed for disorderly conduct and had to spend 8 months going back and fourth to court(????????????????????? WTF)……we finally had to hire our friend who’s an attorney to get the charges dismissed (even w/ his discount it’s not fair WE had to pay anything). When our lawyer got the police report it CLEARLY states from the officers that…four black/hispanic adults were “fighting” 18-24 white teens when they arrived on the scene……We were defending ourself, thats it! And the ONLY reason those 8 got arrested is because they continued to act up after the police showed up. No hate crime was filed and Rev. Jackson didn’t show up to defend us! Even though I’m still mad at those little jerks who need some home training and JUVIE for what happened……I can not say they were RACIST for a FACT and I actually believe they were just 18(yrs old) drunk and being VERY STUPID, and the first group of people they came across was going to get beat up that night, blk, wht, or other!

I read the links from post #12 and its so very sad indeed and scary that I seen others post that it is just going to get worse.

apartame – horrible what happen to your friend(s) I can feel the pain – makes me cry I can imagine they will suffer mentally from this their entire life. Not to mention the pain when it rains I’m sure.

The Judge that tried this case needs beaten. He didn’t want his tax dollars to go toward their meals instead the county will benefit from slavery (community service and camp). How does the victim get satisfaction and payment. Doubt this would be the outcome if it was his daughter.

Why when something happens the city reaps rewards and not the victim !!!! WE need more marches and advocates to fight for the citizens and do away with Justice systems that fail the people !!!!

I am sry that happen to you and your friend wtfever … you are right its not fair the SYSTEM NEEDS REVAMPED ! not only the cost of attorneys but your time, parking fees and your stress that you endured …. it all quite sucks !

I read the links from post #12 and its so very sad indeed and scary that I seen others post that it is just going to get worse.

apartame – horrible what happen to your friend(s) I can feel the pain – makes me cry I can imagine they will suffer mentally from this their entire life. Not to mention the pain when it rains I’m sure.

The Judge that tried this case needs beaten. He didn’t want his tax dollars to go toward their meals instead the county will benefit from slavery (community service and camp). How does the victim get satisfaction and payment. Doubt this would be the outcome if it was his daughter.

Why when something happens the city reaps rewards and not the victim !!!! WE need more marches and advocates to fight for the citizens and do away with Justice systems that fail the people !!!!

I am sry that happen to you and your friend wtfever … you are right its not fair the SYSTEM NEEDS REVAMPED ! not only the cost of attorneys but your time, parking fees and your stress that you endured …. it all quite sucks !

I read the links from post #12 and its so very sad indeed and scary that I seen others post that it is just going to get worse.

apartame – horrible what happen to your friend(s) I can feel the pain – makes me cry I can imagine they will suffer mentally from this their entire life. Not to mention the pain when it rains I’m sure.

The Judge that tried this case needs beaten. He didn’t want his tax dollars to go toward their meals instead the county will benefit from slavery (community service and camp). How does the victim get satisfaction and payment. Doubt this would be the outcome if it was his daughter.

Why when something happens the city reaps rewards and not the victim !!!! WE need more marches and advocates to fight for the citizens and do away with Justice systems that fail the people !!!!

I am sry that happen to you and your friend wtfever … you are right its not fair the SYSTEM NEEDS REVAMPED ! not only the cost of attorneys but your time, parking fees and your stress that you endured …. it all quite sucks !

“Sure, you have to shell out the initial cost for a civil attorney…”

and therein lies the problem for a lot of crime victims.

“Sure, you have to shell out the initial cost for a civil attorney…”

and therein lies the problem for a lot of crime victims.

There are a number of civil attorneys that will take a case pro-bono and get paid when you get settlement.

Either way, life sucks sometimes. We can’t be expecting the government to step in and make things right every time something bad happens to us. We have established means of recooping costs.

I do realize that there are attorneys who will work on a contingency basis, if not pro bono. Got one in the family, matterafact. But oftentimes civil suits aren’t a cost effective way to recoup costs or damages after a crime.
For one thing, many offenders are indigent. Those who aren’t tend to get very good at hiding assets when litigation comes a-callin’. Attorneys know this, and generally won’t take on a case for a contingency fee unless they are very sure they can win, and win big, in which case they’ll pull on average 33% of the award amount.

After legal fees and taxes, victims can often end up in the hole, and that’s if they can collect at all. I have been a victim in civil litigation, and I ended up with less than 20% of the settlement – an amount that left me in the hole by several thousand dollars considering my medical bills and time off work – not couting the nastiness and pain that made me feel forced to sue in the first place. And I had an excellent legal team that got me well over the standard for the type of suit I filed.

So the civil court system is not usually an effective or even viable way to make someone pay for a criminal act. I agree with you, Athena, that we can’t expect the government to fix everything. But expecting the civil courts to help is just as unrealistic most of the time.

I do realize that there are attorneys who will work on a contingency basis, if not pro bono. Got one in the family, matterafact. But oftentimes civil suits aren’t a cost effective way to recoup costs or damages after a crime.
For one thing, many offenders are indigent. Those who aren’t tend to get very good at hiding assets when litigation comes a-callin’. Attorneys know this, and generally won’t take on a case for a contingency fee unless they are very sure they can win, and win big, in which case they’ll pull on average 33% of the award amount.

After legal fees and taxes, victims can often end up in the hole, and that’s if they can collect at all. I have been a victim in civil litigation, and I ended up with less than 20% of the settlement – an amount that left me in the hole by several thousand dollars considering my medical bills and time off work – not couting the nastiness and pain that made me feel forced to sue in the first place. And I had an excellent legal team that got me well over the standard for the type of suit I filed.

So the civil court system is not usually an effective or even viable way to make someone pay for a criminal act. I agree with you, Athena, that we can’t expect the government to fix everything. But expecting the civil courts to help is just as unrealistic most of the time.

court system – haha

you don’t show up for civil court they do nothing about it
if you do win a civil case and they dont pay they do nothing about it

Most the time a crook doesn’t have a pot to piss in

and you can be a victim and not have medical bills

does victim of crime help you when you get found guilty of disorderly – NO

Stress – is priceless ! There is no conpensation when your house gets robbed and you fear to leave your home to go to work. On the weekends you have to leave someone home You don’t know who they are they your car is not in the driveway.

Yeah I have 2 big dogs awww but they let me get robbed for $380
yeah vs. the $525 security alarm (10 yrs is $5250) money wise I’m way ahead of the game. but mentally whats victim of cry do – or home insurance having $500 deductible.

* for a matter of fact my daughters car got smashed saturday 430 am by a Hit and Run Long story … neighbor saw the car hit her car and speed off 50 mph in a 20 ran the next stop sign. lol the car left behind the license plate. matched the color of paint on my daughter car yes. Cops say they can’t prove The owner of the 95 red chevy was driving it. Officer appears at her address hears voices but no one answers the door. He leaves by the time he goes back to station. The red chevy was reported stolen… after the accident happen. He goes back to the address to take the report and makes a deal for her admission of guilt – for a pay out ticket of failure to control she stated she was driving her mother told her on the phone to leave the scene you will be arrested.

Not one question where were you coming from at 430 am ? could it be a bar we could file civil suit against them could it be a friends at that time of morning.

She don’t work dont have a job and is considered homeless that is her sisters house she is 40 years old – homeless with a car ok … I asked if they took pictures and the officer said he would have to go to kentucky – She had took the car over the state border and hid it.

Being a weekend the captain isnt availabe to talk to until monday who does the breatherlizer or drug test ? There were a number of crimes committed

fraud by deception i assume would be an additional one for the fake car theft report. She should be in jail for the hit and run for sure and the DUI but she don’t get handcuffed she geta s pay out ticket. Yeah probably will lose her license for no insurance. Our insurance co. says they drive all the time without license so what.

My daughter and I both missed work monday to get the car towed the rental car didnt come until 330 pm the claims adjuster will be meeting my daughter tomorrow at the dealership and how much more stress do you expect we will have to co thru.
My daughter is hearing stories how cars never seem the same after they are fixed Her car was moved 2 parking places, spinned around the other direction. We have to assume there are screws and parts shifted and broken inside – it is not just the fenders bumpers doors that can be effected. Even if its total that means shopping and researching and probably be car payments again. Civil court seems like the thing to do but then its more aggervation and stress and time and money and it just makes a victim a victim time and time over again. In the big city I live in even paying $10 parking each time you go to the court house its making you into a victim over and over a revolving door.

Does victim of crime help us ? I would really like to know !

by the way the cop had no intentions of going to kentucky. He didnt even take photos of my daughters car. He says he don’t have a camera its the owner responsibility to take photos.

Do you all carry a camera with you in your car … Our cars should have a video recorder in them !!!

by the way the cop had no intentions of going to kentucky. He didnt even take photos of my daughters car. He says he don’t have a camera its the owner responsibility to take photos.

Do you all carry a camera with you in your car … Our cars should have a video recorder in them !!!

Well, I carry a camera in my car after my first car accident. Some kids hit me, caused minor but expensive damage and then tried to get out of it. It worked out okay in the end, but pictures would have helped.

Yes, often, civil courts provide little to no recourse. Unfortunately, life just screws people sometimes. However, it’s not the government’s responsibility to come in and fix things for you. They’ve set up systems to try and help protect their citizens and, for the most part, these systems work. But, sometimes, people slip through the cracks. When that happens, all we can do is be thankful the damage wasn’t worse and do what we must to move on.

I have to address the civil court thing and getting your money back – certainly you can go to civil court and you can get the moneys awarded to you. Now tell us how to actually collect the money. I had a judgement in my favor for $27,000 plus. Now the person could pay me in monthly payments or go to jail. Which do you think they chose $27,000 or 45 days. They pulled 45 days they are free and clear. I didn’t get one dime back and will never. There are no other legal avenues to persue.

Another example – a person I know was convicted of manslaughter, vehicular homicide, whatever, for wrecking and killing a person in his car. He was ordered 120 days in jail, community service, restitution of medical bills, buriel, fines out the whoazoo, etc. The jist of it was, if he didn’t pay the money side of it (something like 150K to 175K he would go back to jail – even after serving the 120 days. He went and pulled 45 more days a total of 165 days for a human life – and he does not owe any medical bills or have to pay the family for the funeral. HE HAS SERVED HIS TIME!

Bullshit, not only did the other family lose their son – they had to pay for the hospital and funeral and were cheated out of any other monetary awards given to them because the offender chose to “just go and serve his time”. That family is still screwed financially and will never have the child back. Victems get worse treatment than the offenders. DAMN DOUBLE DAMN!!

I have to address the civil court thing and getting your money back – certainly you can go to civil court and you can get the moneys awarded to you. Now tell us how to actually collect the money. I had a judgement in my favor for $27,000 plus. Now the person could pay me in monthly payments or go to jail. Which do you think they chose $27,000 or 45 days. They pulled 45 days they are free and clear. I didn’t get one dime back and will never. There are no other legal avenues to persue.

Another example – a person I know was convicted of manslaughter, vehicular homicide, whatever, for wrecking and killing a person in his car. He was ordered 120 days in jail, community service, restitution of medical bills, buriel, fines out the whoazoo, etc. The jist of it was, if he didn’t pay the money side of it (something like 150K to 175K he would go back to jail – even after serving the 120 days. He went and pulled 45 more days a total of 165 days for a human life – and he does not owe any medical bills or have to pay the family for the funeral. HE HAS SERVED HIS TIME!

Bullshit, not only did the other family lose their son – they had to pay for the hospital and funeral and were cheated out of any other monetary awards given to them because the offender chose to “just go and serve his time”. That family is still screwed financially and will never have the child back. Victems get worse treatment than the offenders. DAMN DOUBLE DAMN!!

BTW – what is the deal with 45 days being the magic number? Just noticed both of them pulled 45 and all was right with their world. WTF – that is bullshit especially where there was an actual loss of life.

BTW – what is the deal with 45 days being the magic number? Just noticed both of them pulled 45 and all was right with their world. WTF – that is bullshit especially where there was an actual loss of life.

BTW – what is the deal with 45 days being the magic number? Just noticed both of them pulled 45 and all was right with their world. WTF – that is bullshit especially where there was an actual loss of life.

BTW – what is the deal with 45 days being the magic number? Just noticed both of them pulled 45 and all was right with their world. WTF – that is bullshit especially where there was an actual loss of life.

Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1] Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters

History
Concern about hate crimes has become increasingly prominent among policymakers in many nations and at all levels of government in recent years, but the phenomenon is not new. Examples from the past include Roman persecution of Christians, the Ottoman genocide of Armenians, and the Nazi “final solution” for the Jews, and more recently, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and genocide in Rwanda. Hate crimes have shaped and sometimes defined world history. In the United States, racial and religious biases have inspired most hate crimes. As Europeans began to colonize the New World in the 16th and 17th centuries, Native Americans increasingly became the targets of bias-motivated intimidation and violence. During the past two centuries, some of the more typical examples of hate crimes in the US include lynchings of African Americans, cross burnings to drive black families from predominantly white neighborhoods, assaults on gay, lesbian and transgender people, and the painting of swastikas on Jewish synagogues.[3]

Hate crime victims
In the United States, anti-Black bias was the most frequently reported hate crime motivation. (African-Americans constitute the second-largest minority group; Hispanics are the largest).[4] Of the nearly 8,000 hate crimes reported to the FBI in 1995, almost 3,000 of them were motivated by bias against African Americans.[5] Other frequently reported bias motivations were anti-white, anti-Jewish, anti-gay, and anti-Hispanic.[5]

Hate crime laws generally fall into one of several categories: (1) laws defining specific bias-motivated acts as distinct crimes; (2) criminal penalty-enhancement laws; (3) laws creating a distinct civil cause of action for hate crimes; and (4) laws requiring administrative agencies to collect hate crime statistics.[6] Sometimes (as in Bosnia and Herzegovina), the laws focus on war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity with the prohibition against discriminatory action limited to public officials

Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1] Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters

History
Concern about hate crimes has become increasingly prominent among policymakers in many nations and at all levels of government in recent years, but the phenomenon is not new. Examples from the past include Roman persecution of Christians, the Ottoman genocide of Armenians, and the Nazi “final solution” for the Jews, and more recently, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and genocide in Rwanda. Hate crimes have shaped and sometimes defined world history. In the United States, racial and religious biases have inspired most hate crimes. As Europeans began to colonize the New World in the 16th and 17th centuries, Native Americans increasingly became the targets of bias-motivated intimidation and violence. During the past two centuries, some of the more typical examples of hate crimes in the US include lynchings of African Americans, cross burnings to drive black families from predominantly white neighborhoods, assaults on gay, lesbian and transgender people, and the painting of swastikas on Jewish synagogues.[3]

Hate crime victims
In the United States, anti-Black bias was the most frequently reported hate crime motivation. (African-Americans constitute the second-largest minority group; Hispanics are the largest).[4] Of the nearly 8,000 hate crimes reported to the FBI in 1995, almost 3,000 of them were motivated by bias against African Americans.[5] Other frequently reported bias motivations were anti-white, anti-Jewish, anti-gay, and anti-Hispanic.[5]

Hate crime laws generally fall into one of several categories: (1) laws defining specific bias-motivated acts as distinct crimes; (2) criminal penalty-enhancement laws; (3) laws creating a distinct civil cause of action for hate crimes; and (4) laws requiring administrative agencies to collect hate crime statistics.[6] Sometimes (as in Bosnia and Herzegovina), the laws focus on war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity with the prohibition against discriminatory action limited to public officials

Hate crimes (also known as bias motivated crimes) occur when a perpetrator targets a victim because of his or her membership in a certain social group, usually defined by race, religion, sexual orientation, disability, ethnicity, nationality, age, gender, gender identity, or political affiliation.[1] Hate crimes differ from conventional crime because they are not directed simply at an individual, but are meant to cause fear and intimidation in an entire group or class of people.

Hate crime can take many forms. Incidents may involve physical assault, damage to property, bullying, harassment, verbal abuse or insults, or offensive graffiti or letters

History
Concern about hate crimes has become increasingly prominent among policymakers in many nations and at all levels of government in recent years, but the phenomenon is not new. Examples from the past include Roman persecution of Christians, the Ottoman genocide of Armenians, and the Nazi “final solution” for the Jews, and more recently, the ethnic cleansing in Bosnia and genocide in Rwanda. Hate crimes have shaped and sometimes defined world history. In the United States, racial and religious biases have inspired most hate crimes. As Europeans began to colonize the New World in the 16th and 17th centuries, Native Americans increasingly became the targets of bias-motivated intimidation and violence. During the past two centuries, some of the more typical examples of hate crimes in the US include lynchings of African Americans, cross burnings to drive black families from predominantly white neighborhoods, assaults on gay, lesbian and transgender people, and the painting of swastikas on Jewish synagogues.[3]

Hate crime victims
In the United States, anti-Black bias was the most frequently reported hate crime motivation. (African-Americans constitute the second-largest minority group; Hispanics are the largest).[4] Of the nearly 8,000 hate crimes reported to the FBI in 1995, almost 3,000 of them were motivated by bias against African Americans.[5] Other frequently reported bias motivations were anti-white, anti-Jewish, anti-gay, and anti-Hispanic.[5]

Hate crime laws generally fall into one of several categories: (1) laws defining specific bias-motivated acts as distinct crimes; (2) criminal penalty-enhancement laws; (3) laws creating a distinct civil cause of action for hate crimes; and (4) laws requiring administrative agencies to collect hate crime statistics.[6] Sometimes (as in Bosnia and Herzegovina), the laws focus on war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity with the prohibition against discriminatory action limited to public officials

Lawyers: 2 Teens Innocent In Bus Beating
http://wjz.com/local/sarah.kreager.bus.2.613426.html

Teen Charged In Bus Beating Presses Charges
http://wjz.com/local/teen.beating.bus.2.620354.html

So, nine teens were arrested. The lawyers for two are stating that their clients were on the bus, but not involved in the beating and therefore were wrongly placed under arrest.

Another teen’s lawyer says that had complained that Andrea Kreager had assaulted her, and her complaints were not investigated by the police. So she’s filed a suit against Kreager.

Does anyone know anything else about this case? The hearing is January 4th, I think I read.

Lawyers: 2 Teens Innocent In Bus Beating
http://wjz.com/local/sarah.kreager.bus.2.613426.html

Teen Charged In Bus Beating Presses Charges
http://wjz.com/local/teen.beating.bus.2.620354.html

So, nine teens were arrested. The lawyers for two are stating that their clients were on the bus, but not involved in the beating and therefore were wrongly placed under arrest.

Another teen’s lawyer says that had complained that Andrea Kreager had assaulted her, and her complaints were not investigated by the police. So she’s filed a suit against Kreager.

Does anyone know anything else about this case? The hearing is January 4th, I think I read.

Has anyone an update on this case? The students were put on home detention until a hearing that I believe was to be held on January 31. I can’t find anything yet on the outcome.

Here is the link and the entire article is below, too. Wasn’t much to it.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1194671~Charges_dropped_for_three_of_nine_accused_of_bus_attack.html

“Charges Dropped for Three of Nine Accused of Bus Attack”

Feb 1, 2008 7:44 AM (8 hrs ago) AP
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – Prosecutors in Baltimore say charges have been dropped for three of the nine middle school students accused of attacking a woman aboard a Maryland Transit bus.

During a hearing Thursday, prosecutors said only six defendants remain charged in the Dec. 4 assault of 26-year-old Sarah Kreager, her boyfriend and the bus driver. The attack occurred aboard the No. 27 bus soon after classes dismissed for the day at Robert Poole Middle School.

Kreager suffered two broken bones in her left eye socket.

Defense attorneys are seeking to have the students’ statements to investigators suppressed. Another hearing is scheduled for Monday.

Here is the link and the entire article is below, too. Wasn’t much to it.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1194671~Charges_dropped_for_three_of_nine_accused_of_bus_attack.html

“Charges Dropped for Three of Nine Accused of Bus Attack”

Feb 1, 2008 7:44 AM (8 hrs ago) AP
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – Prosecutors in Baltimore say charges have been dropped for three of the nine middle school students accused of attacking a woman aboard a Maryland Transit bus.

During a hearing Thursday, prosecutors said only six defendants remain charged in the Dec. 4 assault of 26-year-old Sarah Kreager, her boyfriend and the bus driver. The attack occurred aboard the No. 27 bus soon after classes dismissed for the day at Robert Poole Middle School.

Kreager suffered two broken bones in her left eye socket.

Defense attorneys are seeking to have the students’ statements to investigators suppressed. Another hearing is scheduled for Monday.

Here is the link and the entire article is below, too. Wasn’t much to it.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1194671~Charges_dropped_for_three_of_nine_accused_of_bus_attack.html

“Charges Dropped for Three of Nine Accused of Bus Attack”

Feb 1, 2008 7:44 AM (8 hrs ago) AP
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – Prosecutors in Baltimore say charges have been dropped for three of the nine middle school students accused of attacking a woman aboard a Maryland Transit bus.

During a hearing Thursday, prosecutors said only six defendants remain charged in the Dec. 4 assault of 26-year-old Sarah Kreager, her boyfriend and the bus driver. The attack occurred aboard the No. 27 bus soon after classes dismissed for the day at Robert Poole Middle School.

Kreager suffered two broken bones in her left eye socket.

Defense attorneys are seeking to have the students’ statements to investigators suppressed. Another hearing is scheduled for Monday.

Charges were dropped against 2 or 3 of the 9 students accused. It depends on the article you read, but I think 3 is probably right. I haven’t found much else yet, but one of the fathers has hooked up with the “Uhuru Movement.”

http://insidecharmcity.com/2008/01/31/uhuru-says-free-the-mta-9/

The Uhuru had their posters all over my area of Philadelphia. I had forgotten all about them.

Charges were dropped against 2 or 3 of the 9 students accused. It depends on the article you read, but I think 3 is probably right. I haven’t found much else yet, but one of the fathers has hooked up with the “Uhuru Movement.”

http://insidecharmcity.com/2008/01/31/uhuru-says-free-the-mta-9/

The Uhuru had their posters all over my area of Philadelphia. I had forgotten all about them.

Charges were dropped against 2 or 3 of the 9 students accused. It depends on the article you read, but I think 3 is probably right. I haven’t found much else yet, but one of the fathers has hooked up with the “Uhuru Movement.”

http://insidecharmcity.com/2008/01/31/uhuru-says-free-the-mta-9/

The Uhuru had their posters all over my area of Philadelphia. I had forgotten all about them.

The lawyers are arguing that none of the statements made by the teens should be used because the atmosphere at the police station was mean and coercive. This columnist says that none should be used because the kids couldn’t understand the vocabulary involved.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.kane09feb09,0,2167198.column

The lawyers are arguing that none of the statements made by the teens should be used because the atmosphere at the police station was mean and coercive. This columnist says that none should be used because the kids couldn’t understand the vocabulary involved.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.kane09feb09,0,2167198.column

Spitting in the face versus broken facial bones. Damn, I’d take the face spitting. I’ve been spit in the face, I spit back. I didn’t think about busting up the persons face, just wanted to decorate it with a little spittle too. lol

Spitting in the face versus broken facial bones. Damn, I’d take the face spitting. I’ve been spit in the face, I spit back. I didn’t think about busting up the persons face, just wanted to decorate it with a little spittle too. lol

Spitting in the face versus broken facial bones. Damn, I’d take the face spitting. I’ve been spit in the face, I spit back. I didn’t think about busting up the persons face, just wanted to decorate it with a little spittle too. lol

One of the six remaining defendants has pled “involved,” the equivalent of guilty in juvenile court, to charges of second-degree assault and conspiracy to commit first-degree assault. She has been sentenced to “community commitment” — home detention without an ankle monitoring bracelet — and to attend yet-to-be-determined programs recommended by the state’s Department of Juvenile Services. She admits she hit Kreager one time.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23415028

The attorney for Nakita M. has argued that there is “discriminatory prosecution” underway in the beating case. The case’s prosecuting attorney says this is untrue.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1247172~_Discriminatory_prosecution__alleged_in_bus_beating_case.html

For a newstory that made headlines, it is very difficult to find any information on the adjudication.

– Kreager recalls bus attack on the stand –
http://www.examiner.com/a-1256784~Kreager_recalls_bus_attack_on_the_stand.html

According to Kreager’s testimony, Nakita M., the teen who said Kreager had attacked her, seems to have been the ring-leader.

“A voice behind her — whom Kreager identified as defendant Nakita M., a 15-year-old girl — told her she “needed to move.”

“When she didn’t, the threats began.

“If she don’t move, we’ll move this [expletive],” Kreager said the 15-year-old girl said.

“Now alarmed, Kreager stood up and walked to where Ennis was standing, but the girl followed her.

“You white [expletive] think you own [expletive]. This is our bus,” the girl said, Kreager testified.

“That’s when all hell broke loose, Kreager said, with Nakita M. grabbing her hair and punching her in the face — and Ennis jumping in front of her to block the attack from the students.”

A different report with more details. Defense lawyers are already developing some catchy slogans, such as “green does not mean guilty.”

What a colorful crock of shit! What about the butter colored boots? “Butter does not mean ‘beat her’,” maybe?

A different report with more details. Defense lawyers are already developing some catchy slogans, such as “green does not mean guilty.”

What a colorful crock of shit! What about the butter colored boots? “Butter does not mean ‘beat her’,” maybe?

What a colorful crock of shit! What about the butter colored boots? “Butter does not mean ‘beat her’,” maybe?

That’s pretty funny. I am willing to bet there were other people there who saw which teen had on the butter-colored boots and kicked a woman in the face. It’s not going to be the jacket or boots alone. The attorney is just trying to get a slogan set up in the jurors’ minds.

Another article said that while the gutter-beating was going on, teens moved forward on the bus and were trying to get out its front doors. The boyfriend tried for a time to hold the doors shut, until Kreager called for him to stop it. It wasn’t clear what happened then, but overall it sounds like an ugly scene.

The insult that Kreager says set Nakita off was that Ennis (Kreager’s boyfriend) said that Nakita’s manners were worse than those of their five-year-old daughter.

It’s going to be interesting to read the defendant’s version, especially because Kreager has said that she can only identify Nakita M. with 100% certainty. The i.d.s of the rest will depend on other people’s testimony.

What a colorful crock of shit! What about the butter colored boots? “Butter does not mean ‘beat her’,” maybe?

That’s pretty funny. I am willing to bet there were other people there who saw which teen had on the butter-colored boots and kicked a woman in the face. It’s not going to be the jacket or boots alone. The attorney is just trying to get a slogan set up in the jurors’ minds.

Another article said that while the gutter-beating was going on, teens moved forward on the bus and were trying to get out its front doors. The boyfriend tried for a time to hold the doors shut, until Kreager called for him to stop it. It wasn’t clear what happened then, but overall it sounds like an ugly scene.

The insult that Kreager says set Nakita off was that Ennis (Kreager’s boyfriend) said that Nakita’s manners were worse than those of their five-year-old daughter.

It’s going to be interesting to read the defendant’s version, especially because Kreager has said that she can only identify Nakita M. with 100% certainty. The i.d.s of the rest will depend on other people’s testimony.

What a colorful crock of shit! What about the butter colored boots? “Butter does not mean ‘beat her’,” maybe?

That’s pretty funny. I am willing to bet there were other people there who saw which teen had on the butter-colored boots and kicked a woman in the face. It’s not going to be the jacket or boots alone. The attorney is just trying to get a slogan set up in the jurors’ minds.

Another article said that while the gutter-beating was going on, teens moved forward on the bus and were trying to get out its front doors. The boyfriend tried for a time to hold the doors shut, until Kreager called for him to stop it. It wasn’t clear what happened then, but overall it sounds like an ugly scene.

The insult that Kreager says set Nakita off was that Ennis (Kreager’s boyfriend) said that Nakita’s manners were worse than those of their five-year-old daughter.

It’s going to be interesting to read the defendant’s version, especially because Kreager has said that she can only identify Nakita M. with 100% certainty. The i.d.s of the rest will depend on other people’s testimony.

Wow, Wry, I hope they have a long list of eyewitnesses to call…

Wow, Wry, I hope they have a long list of eyewitnesses to call…

Me, too. It seems we’ve gone back to the time when every “stagecoach” needs someone riding with a shotgun — but nowadays it would be to protect the passengers from each other.

LOL, Wry, now THAT’S funny!

LOL, Wry, now THAT’S funny!

LOL, Wry, now THAT’S funny!

Good Lord, what a crock! How can they get by with such violence and nothing be done about it?

Talk about fueling more hate crimes, both ways. The whites will be wanting to return the beating, since they let these guys walk. The blacks will think because a reverse hate crime is much harder to get a conviction on, that they can get by with it or with hardly any punishment, at all.

Its a NO WIN NO WIN for all races. I have to go with a crime is a crime is a crime. The hate crime definition offered on up in the posts, was very informative to me, personally. I find it obvious that, by definition, this was a hate crime. The testimony of statements made point to wanting, to intimidate any other whites, from riding “their bus” and that equals hate crime , by the definition.

Now, to the crime itself – If I beat down a woman for being any other color than myself, (which as stated before is purple with green dots), why is that worse than beating her down to steal her purse? In stealing her purse, I have assaulted her, as well as, stolen from her – two crimes. So, why is not liking her color and assaulting her because of it, not less of a crime than the robbery motive? Here there was only the law of assaulting someone broken, instead of assault and theft.

That is why a crime is a crime is a crime – no matter the motivation, laws were still broken – people are still hurt. So, which is worse, one law broken or two laws broken? Does it matter? Hate Crime? Its a violent crime against another human, period.

The point, deal with the laws broken, period. Who cares WHY? Like the baby killers or parent killers, I could give a fat rat’s ass less, WHY the POS killed a baby or molested it or why a family member could suddenly go off and kill everyone else in their family. I only care that they DID IT and should be punished.

And if we’re gonna have hate crime legislation, why not have it for people who hate KIDS – no color there, just kids – our future.

I swear, if I ever fill out another questionnaire or application, of any kind, where it has “race”, I’m going to check the “other” box and write in HUMAN on the line provided.

I swear, if I ever fill out another questionnaire or application, of any kind, where it has “race”, I’m going to check the “other” box and write in HUMAN on the line provided.

That’s a great idea!

This isn’t being prosecuted as a hate crime. I don’t know why, considering what the one girl said. The victim, Sarah Kreager said that she thought race played a role in it, but that it escalated because of kids wanting to look cool in front of each other.

– Kreager denies spitting, shouting slurs at teens –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1259379~Kreager_denies_spitting___shouting_slurs_at_teens.html

Excerpted from the article: ““I never spit, ma’am,” Kreager, 26, testified during the second day of trial in the assault case against five Robert Poole Middle School students. The teens are charged in the beating of Kreager, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver, as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

“Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas, who represents the 15-year-old girl, Nakita M., at the center of the confrontation with Kreager, said Ennis commanded Kreager to spit with a racial slur.

“He told you, ‘Spit on those n—-,’ didn’t he?” she asked.
“No, ma’am,” Kreager replied.”

(and)

“The defense attorneys spent much of Tuesday trying to get Sinai Hospital Dr. Mahajabin Ali to say that Kreager’s injuries, including two broken bones in her face, were sustained sometime before the bus fight. But Ali said the time such injuries occurred could not pinpointed.”

– Kreager denies spitting, shouting slurs at teens –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1259379~Kreager_denies_spitting___shouting_slurs_at_teens.html

Excerpted from the article: ““I never spit, ma’am,” Kreager, 26, testified during the second day of trial in the assault case against five Robert Poole Middle School students. The teens are charged in the beating of Kreager, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver, as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

“Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas, who represents the 15-year-old girl, Nakita M., at the center of the confrontation with Kreager, said Ennis commanded Kreager to spit with a racial slur.

“He told you, ‘Spit on those n—-,’ didn’t he?” she asked.
“No, ma’am,” Kreager replied.”

(and)

“The defense attorneys spent much of Tuesday trying to get Sinai Hospital Dr. Mahajabin Ali to say that Kreager’s injuries, including two broken bones in her face, were sustained sometime before the bus fight. But Ali said the time such injuries occurred could not pinpointed.”

– Kreager denies spitting, shouting slurs at teens –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1259379~Kreager_denies_spitting___shouting_slurs_at_teens.html

Excerpted from the article: ““I never spit, ma’am,” Kreager, 26, testified during the second day of trial in the assault case against five Robert Poole Middle School students. The teens are charged in the beating of Kreager, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver, as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

“Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas, who represents the 15-year-old girl, Nakita M., at the center of the confrontation with Kreager, said Ennis commanded Kreager to spit with a racial slur.

“He told you, ‘Spit on those n—-,’ didn’t he?” she asked.
“No, ma’am,” Kreager replied.”

(and)

“The defense attorneys spent much of Tuesday trying to get Sinai Hospital Dr. Mahajabin Ali to say that Kreager’s injuries, including two broken bones in her face, were sustained sometime before the bus fight. But Ali said the time such injuries occurred could not pinpointed.”

– Kreager denies spitting, shouting slurs at teens –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1259379~Kreager_denies_spitting___shouting_slurs_at_teens.html

Excerpted from the article: ““I never spit, ma’am,” Kreager, 26, testified during the second day of trial in the assault case against five Robert Poole Middle School students. The teens are charged in the beating of Kreager, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver, as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

“Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas, who represents the 15-year-old girl, Nakita M., at the center of the confrontation with Kreager, said Ennis commanded Kreager to spit with a racial slur.

“He told you, ‘Spit on those n—-,’ didn’t he?” she asked.
“No, ma’am,” Kreager replied.”

(and)

“The defense attorneys spent much of Tuesday trying to get Sinai Hospital Dr. Mahajabin Ali to say that Kreager’s injuries, including two broken bones in her face, were sustained sometime before the bus fight. But Ali said the time such injuries occurred could not pinpointed.”

– Baltimore beating victim: ‘It’s not worth this all over a seat’ –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1264260~Baltimore_beating_victim___It_s_not_worth_this_all_over_a_seat_.html

This is really sad to read. What an ugly scene. The kids rushed from the front and back of the bus to join the beating.

Well, we’ll see what the defense witnesses have to say.

– Baltimore beating victim: ‘It’s not worth this all over a seat’ –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1264260~Baltimore_beating_victim___It_s_not_worth_this_all_over_a_seat_.html

This is really sad to read. What an ugly scene. The kids rushed from the front and back of the bus to join the beating.

Well, we’ll see what the defense witnesses have to say.

– Baltimore beating victim: ‘It’s not worth this all over a seat’ –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1264260~Baltimore_beating_victim___It_s_not_worth_this_all_over_a_seat_.html

This is really sad to read. What an ugly scene. The kids rushed from the front and back of the bus to join the beating.

Well, we’ll see what the defense witnesses have to say.

– Baltimore beating victim: ‘It’s not worth this all over a seat’ –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1264260~Baltimore_beating_victim___It_s_not_worth_this_all_over_a_seat_.html

This is really sad to read. What an ugly scene. The kids rushed from the front and back of the bus to join the beating.

Well, we’ll see what the defense witnesses have to say.

- Baltimore bus beating witness: ‘You’re going to kill that girl!’ -
http://www.examiner.com/a-1266429~Baltimore_bus_beating_witness___You_re_going_to_kill_that_girl__.html

“The scene was so bad Hampden resident Joyce King thought she was witnessing a murder in progress.
“Stop! Get off of her! You’re going to kill that girl!” King shouted at middle schoolers she saw beating a 26-year-old woman in a gutter near a Baltimore City bus.”

(and)

“King said about 15 to 20 students followed Kreager off the bus.
“This happened all at once,” she said. “Everyone was doing it all. I didn’t see anyone holding back.”

This woman’s a hero for confronting these beaters.

- Baltimore bus beating witness: ‘You’re going to kill that girl!’ -
http://www.examiner.com/a-1266429~Baltimore_bus_beating_witness___You_re_going_to_kill_that_girl__.html

“The scene was so bad Hampden resident Joyce King thought she was witnessing a murder in progress.
“Stop! Get off of her! You’re going to kill that girl!” King shouted at middle schoolers she saw beating a 26-year-old woman in a gutter near a Baltimore City bus.”

(and)

“King said about 15 to 20 students followed Kreager off the bus.
“This happened all at once,” she said. “Everyone was doing it all. I didn’t see anyone holding back.”

This woman’s a hero for confronting these beaters.

– Exclusive: Driver Of MTA Bus Speaks About Trial –

http://extra.examiner.com/linker/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ethewbalchannel%2Ecom%2Fnews%2F15561922%2Fdetail%2Ehtml

He is sure the teens on trial were involved in the attack. He tried to turn on the camera to record the incident. He doesn’t think it was racially motivated and confirms that Kreager did not have a black eye when she got on the bus and that neither she nor Ennis used racial slurs.

– Defense: Bus Attack Victim’s Judgment Clouded –
POSTED: 6:53 pm EST March 4, 2008
UPDATED: 7:06 pm EST March 4, 2008

http://extra.examiner.com/linker/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ethewbalchannel%2Ecom%2Fnews%2F15561922%2Fdetail%2Ehtml

BALTIMORE — The woman who claims a group of middle school students attacked her on an MTA bus in December took the stand for a second day on Tuesday.

Sarah Kreager, 26, faced questions about her past and what she remembered about the day the alleged attack happened.

Five students from Robert Poole Middle School are on trial in the case. They’re accused of beating Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. Kreager suffered numerous broken bones and injuries to her face.

Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas focused on her client, a teenage girl, as being characterized as the main assailant in the attack. Of the five students accused, Thomas’ client is the only one Kreager was able to identify.

Kreager said that after the girl started the fight with a verbal threat, she turned and looked the girl in the face. She said her focus stayed on the girl because she had a weapon of some sort.

But Thomas questioned that testimony. She suggested that Kreager started the fight after Ennis used a racial slur. Thomas also insinuated that Kreager spit on the girl and hit her first, but Kreager denied that.

Kreager admitted she was a recovering methadone addict and was taking anxiety pills for a number of reasons. Some of the defense attorneys said that Kreager’s judgment was clouded because of those drugs.

Kreager admitted she couldn’t identify any of the boys accused in the beating, what the weather was like that day, how long she was on the bus or a physical description of the person she credited with saving her life.

Kreager also claimed to be punctured or pierced during the attack. The emergency room doctor from Sinai Hospital who treated her gave testimony about Kreager’s injuries.

The doctor said that Kreager’s account of the time and cause of her injuries was consistent with the injuries in which she was treated; however, the doctor said that there was no evidence that Kreager has been punctured or pierced.

Thomas insinuated her injuries were from past abuses and IV drug use, but Kreager insisted they were from the bus beating.

– Defense: Bus Attack Victim’s Judgment Clouded –
POSTED: 6:53 pm EST March 4, 2008
UPDATED: 7:06 pm EST March 4, 2008

http://extra.examiner.com/linker/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Ethewbalchannel%2Ecom%2Fnews%2F15561922%2Fdetail%2Ehtml

BALTIMORE — The woman who claims a group of middle school students attacked her on an MTA bus in December took the stand for a second day on Tuesday.

Sarah Kreager, 26, faced questions about her past and what she remembered about the day the alleged attack happened.

Five students from Robert Poole Middle School are on trial in the case. They’re accused of beating Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. Kreager suffered numerous broken bones and injuries to her face.

Defense attorney Kimberly Thomas focused on her client, a teenage girl, as being characterized as the main assailant in the attack. Of the five students accused, Thomas’ client is the only one Kreager was able to identify.

Kreager said that after the girl started the fight with a verbal threat, she turned and looked the girl in the face. She said her focus stayed on the girl because she had a weapon of some sort.

But Thomas questioned that testimony. She suggested that Kreager started the fight after Ennis used a racial slur. Thomas also insinuated that Kreager spit on the girl and hit her first, but Kreager denied that.

Kreager admitted she was a recovering methadone addict and was taking anxiety pills for a number of reasons. Some of the defense attorneys said that Kreager’s judgment was clouded because of those drugs.

Kreager admitted she couldn’t identify any of the boys accused in the beating, what the weather was like that day, how long she was on the bus or a physical description of the person she credited with saving her life.

Kreager also claimed to be punctured or pierced during the attack. The emergency room doctor from Sinai Hospital who treated her gave testimony about Kreager’s injuries.

The doctor said that Kreager’s account of the time and cause of her injuries was consistent with the injuries in which she was treated; however, the doctor said that there was no evidence that Kreager has been punctured or pierced.

Thomas insinuated her injuries were from past abuses and IV drug use, but Kreager insisted they were from the bus beating.

I don’t know if anyone else is interested in this case. But because I started posting updates, I sort of feel responsible to continue it. I guess that’s the researcher in my past – share the info. Hope I’m not using up bandwidth nor boring you all.

As an ex-urban bus avoider, I began to avoid the busses and subways because of the dangerous or obnoxious people onboard. I’d rather walk two miles, on my feet on the street and able to run, than put myself inside a tin can with a lot of strangers.

I appreciate the updates, Wry, and have been following your posts on this thread almost since my first day on this site. Thanks!

I appreciate the updates, Wry, and have been following your posts on this thread almost since my first day on this site. Thanks!

You’re welcome and thanks for letting me know. I was beginning to feel a little weird about posting new articles. They slip off the “recent posts” column so fast that I wasn’t sure anyone was seeing them and then I began to wonder if I was just irritating Morbid and Imp by them. Wouldn’t want that for the world!

You’re welcome and thanks for letting me know. I was beginning to feel a little weird about posting new articles. They slip off the “recent posts” column so fast that I wasn’t sure anyone was seeing them and then I began to wonder if I was just irritating Morbid and Imp by them. Wouldn’t want that for the world!

You’re welcome and thanks for letting me know. I was beginning to feel a little weird about posting new articles. They slip off the “recent posts” column so fast that I wasn’t sure anyone was seeing them and then I began to wonder if I was just irritating Morbid and Imp by them. Wouldn’t want that for the world!

– Officer: Students ‘playful’ after beating woman on bus–

(my summary — Officer testifies that the girls “were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.” The officer is the last prosecution witness. The defense lawyers all made “motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.”)

http://www.examiner.com/a-1273334~Officer__Students__playful__after_beating_woman_on_bus.html

Mar 12, 2008 4:00 AM (1 day ago) by Luke Broadwater, The Examiner
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – As Sarah Kreager sat in a hospital suffering from broken facial bones, the middle school girls charged in her beating on an MTA bus were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.

“I don’t know if they were re-enacting what happened,” said Tameka Gooden, a Baltimore police officer stationed at the Juvenile Justice Center. “They were kicking and doing punching motions. … They were loud and playing around.”

Gooden, the last witness for the prosecution, testified Tuesday in the second week of the assault trial against five Robert Poole Middle School students charged with beating Kreager, 26, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

Kreager sustained two broken facial bones during the beating, which started on the bus and spilled out into a street gutter at Chestnut Avenue and 33rd Street.

Kreager testified the altercation started after one middle school girl refused to let her sit down on the bus.

After Gooden finished her testimony, all five defense attorneys made motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.

“There is evidence that Mr. Ennis and Ms. Kreager started the fight,” defense attorney Donald Wright said.

Juvenile Judge David Young said he will rule on the motions when the trial resumes Thursday morning.

Of the nine students initially charged in the beating, prosecutors have dropped three of their cases but secured one conviction.

One 14-year-old girl pleaded “involved” — the juvenile equivalent to guilty — to misdemeanor assault after admitting to striking Kreager one time.

lbroadwater@baltimoreexaminer.com

– Officer: Students ‘playful’ after beating woman on bus–

(my summary — Officer testifies that the girls “were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.” The officer is the last prosecution witness. The defense lawyers all made “motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.”)

http://www.examiner.com/a-1273334~Officer__Students__playful__after_beating_woman_on_bus.html

Mar 12, 2008 4:00 AM (1 day ago) by Luke Broadwater, The Examiner
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – As Sarah Kreager sat in a hospital suffering from broken facial bones, the middle school girls charged in her beating on an MTA bus were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.

“I don’t know if they were re-enacting what happened,” said Tameka Gooden, a Baltimore police officer stationed at the Juvenile Justice Center. “They were kicking and doing punching motions. … They were loud and playing around.”

Gooden, the last witness for the prosecution, testified Tuesday in the second week of the assault trial against five Robert Poole Middle School students charged with beating Kreager, 26, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

Kreager sustained two broken facial bones during the beating, which started on the bus and spilled out into a street gutter at Chestnut Avenue and 33rd Street.

Kreager testified the altercation started after one middle school girl refused to let her sit down on the bus.

After Gooden finished her testimony, all five defense attorneys made motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.

“There is evidence that Mr. Ennis and Ms. Kreager started the fight,” defense attorney Donald Wright said.

Juvenile Judge David Young said he will rule on the motions when the trial resumes Thursday morning.

Of the nine students initially charged in the beating, prosecutors have dropped three of their cases but secured one conviction.

One 14-year-old girl pleaded “involved” — the juvenile equivalent to guilty — to misdemeanor assault after admitting to striking Kreager one time.

lbroadwater@baltimoreexaminer.com

– Officer: Students ‘playful’ after beating woman on bus–

(my summary — Officer testifies that the girls “were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.” The officer is the last prosecution witness. The defense lawyers all made “motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.”)

http://www.examiner.com/a-1273334~Officer__Students__playful__after_beating_woman_on_bus.html

Mar 12, 2008 4:00 AM (1 day ago) by Luke Broadwater, The Examiner
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – As Sarah Kreager sat in a hospital suffering from broken facial bones, the middle school girls charged in her beating on an MTA bus were “loud and playful” in their jail cell — demonstrating kicking and punching motions, an officer testified Tuesday.

“I don’t know if they were re-enacting what happened,” said Tameka Gooden, a Baltimore police officer stationed at the Juvenile Justice Center. “They were kicking and doing punching motions. … They were loud and playing around.”

Gooden, the last witness for the prosecution, testified Tuesday in the second week of the assault trial against five Robert Poole Middle School students charged with beating Kreager, 26, her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, 30, and the No. 27 bus driver as more than 40 students rode home from school Dec. 4.

Kreager sustained two broken facial bones during the beating, which started on the bus and spilled out into a street gutter at Chestnut Avenue and 33rd Street.

Kreager testified the altercation started after one middle school girl refused to let her sit down on the bus.

After Gooden finished her testimony, all five defense attorneys made motions to acquit their clients of all charges, arguing prosecutors failed to prove a case against any of the students.

“There is evidence that Mr. Ennis and Ms. Kreager started the fight,” defense attorney Donald Wright said.

Juvenile Judge David Young said he will rule on the motions when the trial resumes Thursday morning.

Of the nine students initially charged in the beating, prosecutors have dropped three of their cases but secured one conviction.

One 14-year-old girl pleaded “involved” — the juvenile equivalent to guilty — to misdemeanor assault after admitting to striking Kreager one time.

lbroadwater@baltimoreexaminer.com

– Defense seeks dismissal in bus beating case –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1273508~Defense_seeks_dismissal_in_bus_beating_case.html

Mar 12, 2008 6:31 AM (1 day ago) AP
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – A Baltimore judge is expected to rule Thursday on a motion by defense attorneys to dismiss the case against five Baltimore middle school students accused of the December beating of a woman and her boyfriend on a city transit bus.

The five defense attorneys argued that witnesses had been unable to identify the assailants. Prosecutors, however, said the students took part in a conspiracy to attack Sarah Kreager and Troy Ennis, making them equally responsible for the injuries, whether or not each student individually caused them.

Nine students were charged after the beating. Charges against three have been delayed and the ninth had admitted her role in the attack.

– Defense seeks dismissal in bus beating case –

http://www.examiner.com/a-1273508~Defense_seeks_dismissal_in_bus_beating_case.html

Mar 12, 2008 6:31 AM (1 day ago) AP
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – A Baltimore judge is expected to rule Thursday on a motion by defense attorneys to dismiss the case against five Baltimore middle school students accused of the December beating of a woman and her boyfriend on a city transit bus.

The five defense attorneys argued that witnesses had been unable to identify the assailants. Prosecutors, however, said the students took part in a conspiracy to attack Sarah Kreager and Troy Ennis, making them equally responsible for the injuries, whether or not each student individually caused them.

Nine students were charged after the beating. Charges against three have been delayed and the ninth had admitted her role in the attack.

Here’s the picture as I see it from the articles. Of course, this is just from the prosecution’s presentation.

Nakita McWilliams was remembered by the bus driver because she walked past him without showing her student bus pass and he had to get out of his seat and walk back and demand to see it. She was filing her nails at the time.

I think that was the precipitating incident: Having shown him the pass and having lost face with her friends, she then began to persecute Sarah Kreager to regain her rep. How this cannot be a hate crime, I don’t know, because Kreager says McWillams said to her, ““You white [expletive] think you own [expletive]. This is our bus.” I think the concept of “hate crime” is stupid, but if we’re going to have the term, this sure seems to fit its definition.

When Ennis, Kreager’s boyfriend said that their child had better manners than McWilliams, she attacked and all or most of the students onboard then piled in. When McWilliams and Ennis were able to get off the bus, students poured out. Some girls held up Kreager’s head while she was lying battered in the gutter and a male teen kicked her in the face.

A woman from a nearby house ran out and bravely ordered the kids to stop. Kids scattered. Did the police get them all or the right ones at all? That’s the defense’s argument. The bus driver has testified that the teen who kicked Kreager’s face is not among the defendants.

Now, we’ll see how the defense describes things.

Here’s the picture as I see it from the articles. Of course, this is just from the prosecution’s presentation.

Nakita McWilliams was remembered by the bus driver because she walked past him without showing her student bus pass and he had to get out of his seat and walk back and demand to see it. She was filing her nails at the time.

I think that was the precipitating incident: Having shown him the pass and having lost face with her friends, she then began to persecute Sarah Kreager to regain her rep. How this cannot be a hate crime, I don’t know, because Kreager says McWillams said to her, ““You white [expletive] think you own [expletive]. This is our bus.” I think the concept of “hate crime” is stupid, but if we’re going to have the term, this sure seems to fit its definition.

When Ennis, Kreager’s boyfriend said that their child had better manners than McWilliams, she attacked and all or most of the students onboard then piled in. When McWilliams and Ennis were able to get off the bus, students poured out. Some girls held up Kreager’s head while she was lying battered in the gutter and a male teen kicked her in the face.

A woman from a nearby house ran out and bravely ordered the kids to stop. Kids scattered. Did the police get them all or the right ones at all? That’s the defense’s argument. The bus driver has testified that the teen who kicked Kreager’s face is not among the defendants.

Now, we’ll see how the defense describes things.

Here’s the picture as I see it from the articles. Of course, this is just from the prosecution’s presentation.

Nakita McWilliams was remembered by the bus driver because she walked past him without showing her student bus pass and he had to get out of his seat and walk back and demand to see it. She was filing her nails at the time.

I think that was the precipitating incident: Having shown him the pass and having lost face with her friends, she then began to persecute Sarah Kreager to regain her rep. How this cannot be a hate crime, I don’t know, because Kreager says McWillams said to her, ““You white [expletive] think you own [expletive]. This is our bus.” I think the concept of “hate crime” is stupid, but if we’re going to have the term, this sure seems to fit its definition.

When Ennis, Kreager’s boyfriend said that their child had better manners than McWilliams, she attacked and all or most of the students onboard then piled in. When McWilliams and Ennis were able to get off the bus, students poured out. Some girls held up Kreager’s head while she was lying battered in the gutter and a male teen kicked her in the face.

A woman from a nearby house ran out and bravely ordered the kids to stop. Kids scattered. Did the police get them all or the right ones at all? That’s the defense’s argument. The bus driver has testified that the teen who kicked Kreager’s face is not among the defendants.

Now, we’ll see how the defense describes things.

I hope they convict all of the little bastards – and find a few more that were involved as well. Kids these days have so little respect for authority of any sort, that they NEED to be held accountable when thy do shit like this. It was only by the grace of God, and the intervention of one brave woman that they are not on trial for murder instead of assault. If they are allowed to walk on these charges, what will they do next time?

And another thing I was wondering – have any of the parents of these kids expressed any sympathy or remorse for the actions of their children? Or are they reinforcing the common beliefs these days that no one is responsible for their own actions anymore, and the blame lies with the victim? A lot of times I think parents are teaching their kids irresponsibility by defending their heinous crimes. Sorry parents = sorry kids.

freeing of the Baltimore 6 or maybe it’s the MTA 6.

Free them?!? How about FLOG them? That’s what they did to this woman.

I appreciate it too – I get lost too like you said recent post cover up the stories Igrow to be interest in the updates…. I would like then to be flagged when new post are added – really i dont care about the most viewed list I wished the recent post were longer last 24 hrs or something. thanks again Wry

Little fuckers, think they can get away with this shit because they are kids, in a group and can pull the race card. I don’t see any injuries to them, and trying to justify such a horrendous and disfiguring beating because someone ‘may’ have spat in them? And lawyers doing their thing, degrading and blaming the victim, while parents go into denial – ‘mmm-mmm. Not my Ayesha.’

Public transport. Bring communities together.

Little fuckers, think they can get away with this shit because they are kids, in a group and can pull the race card. I don’t see any injuries to them, and trying to justify such a horrendous and disfiguring beating because someone ‘may’ have spat in them? And lawyers doing their thing, degrading and blaming the victim, while parents go into denial – ‘mmm-mmm. Not my Ayesha.’

Public transport. Bring communities together.

Little fuckers, think they can get away with this shit because they are kids, in a group and can pull the race card. I don’t see any injuries to them, and trying to justify such a horrendous and disfiguring beating because someone ‘may’ have spat in them? And lawyers doing their thing, degrading and blaming the victim, while parents go into denial – ‘mmm-mmm. Not my Ayesha.’

Public transport. Bring communities together.

Wry, thanks for posting a story that didn’t involve a kid being raped or dying.

Wry, thanks for posting a story that didn’t involve a kid being raped or dying.

Wry, thanks for posting a story that didn’t involve a kid being raped or dying.

“Teens guilty in Baltimore bus beating case”

Mar 18, 2008 8:29 PM (17 days ago) by Luke Broadwater, The Examiner
BALTIMORE (Map, News) – Sarah Kreager sat stonefaced in the front row of court as the judge read the verdicts. She put her arm around her longtime boyfriend, Troy Ennis, Tuesday as teenager after teenager was convicted of brutally beating her — breaking two bones in her face — aboard an MTA bus in December.

For the first time in a Baltimore City courtroom, the 26-year-old woman smiled.

“Sarah Kreager and Troy Ennis have been vindicated,” prosecutor Janet Hankin said outside the courthouse. “The allegations made against them are untrue and uncalled for. They have caused an unnecessary rift in the community and I hope now the verdicts are in the community can heal from the hurt and the unnecessary racial tension.”

Baltimore City Juvenile Judge David Young convicted four teens —two females and two males — of first-degree assault in the beating of Kreager and Ennis, 30, on the No. 27 bus Dec. 4. A fifth student, a male, was convicted of second-degree assault against only Ennis.

Kreager and Ennis were quickly escorted out by officers with the state’s attorney’s witness protection program.

Hours earlier Kreager had cried as defense attorneys verbally attacked her, accusing Ennis of using racial slurs and her of starting the fight with the middle school students.

“It wasn’t bad enough she had to be beaten on the bus,” Hankin said. “She was beaten up on closing arguments. Now she had to listen to the fabrications of the defense.”

But defense attorney Garland Sanderson said he was “deeply disappointed.”

“There was absolutely no evidence that supported the decision,” said Sanderson, who represents one boy.

During closing arguments, defense attorneys said Kreager and Ennis began the brawl.

“This is about race,” defense attorney Margaret Desonier said. “African-American children were all telling the same story and nobody would believe them.”

But prosecutor Dawn Jones said it was absurd to think Ennis used a racial slur on a bus packed with 40 black students.

“In that situation, the grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan [wouldn’t say] the N-word,” Jones said.

Sentencing is scheduled for April 3.

“After beating on bus, victim rebuilding life”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.kreager21mar21,0,1077647.story

By Melissa Harris | sun reporter
March 21, 2008

Sarah Kreager had picked up her prescription anti-depressant and boarded the No. 27 bus in Hampden that would take her and her boyfriend downtown to a methadone clinic.

She had eaten lunch at a soup kitchen that day. Her three children were living with foster parents. She was homeless.

By the time she got on the bus, she said she was already on her “last option,” that a string of setbacks had formed “a black cloud” over her.

But what happened next thrust her personal pain into the public consciousness. She was beaten by a crowd of eighth-graders from nearby Robert Poole Middle School after a dispute over a seat on the crowded bus. She wanted to sit down; a student said the spot had been saved. Some black students said Kreager uttered a racial slur, disputed by both Kreager and the black bus driver.

In a fight described by witnesses as a riot, students jumped on Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. The brawl spilled from the bus and ended in a gutter on 33rd Street, with students piling on top of the young woman and kicking her until a neighbor rushed to her rescue.

Arrests followed, then a long, racially charged trial in juvenile court that ended this week with five students found responsible, their punishment to be determined by a judge next month.

In a telephone interview yesterday, Kreager said the judge’s ruling brought her “happiness,” “joy” and vindication.

“For everything that was in the papers and on TV — and people say ‘Oh, that’s not a big deal’ — but when people, defense attorneys and parents, are lying on you on public television, saying you’re racist, that your husband is a violent wife-beater, I fear my kids might read that one day.”

Now, after months being hidden away in the city’s witness protection program, Kreager will have to rebuild her life.

Within 30 days, she will have to find a new place to live. Her goal is to reunite with her three children — ages 1, 2 and 5 — who have been living with two separate foster families since August, when Kreager became homeless after a string of setbacks that began with a car accident and grew into an addiction to painkillers.

“My oldest still loves the raw beauty of life, whispers to dolls and is in awe of the stars,” Kreager said in a telephone interview yesterday, two days after the exhausting trial, in which she was labeled a racist and an instigator of the Dec. 4 brawl aboard the No. 27 bus in Hampden.

The circumstances that put Kreager and Ennis, 31, on the bus began, she says, years ago in a hospital emergency room in Baltimore, where she arrived with a racing heart, muscle spasms and a general feeling she was going to suffer a heart attack. Kreager says doctors diagnosed her with panic attacks, and prescribed anti-anxiety medication, Xanax and Paxil.

Then came the fender-bender. They didn’t have health insurance, and Kreager’s friend referred her to a doctor, who would examine her for only $175. Kreager said she should have been suspicious, but accepted the doctor’s prescriptions for “everything,” nonetheless.

She went back for refills every month and slowly she began to take them when her neck and back weren’t hurting, when she was simply in “a bad mood” or needed extra energy to keep up with two kids, she said.

“It got to the point where my body was hurting because I wasn’t taking Percocet,” she said. “It was worse when I didn’t take them, than it was before I took them at all.”

Then, Ennis got injured at work, and Kreager offered him a few of her pills. Then, they both started filling prescriptions. By the time Kreager was pregnant with her third child, her addiction had escalated to oxycontin. Her obstetrician put her on methadone for the baby’s health, and Ennis soon followed with treatment.

In August, he lost his job. Their youngest daughter was six months old. They moved into a friend’s house. But when Kreager suspected her of using drugs, she said, the family left for the streets and placed their children with her mother.

“Everything started to crumble,” Kreager said. “We had no family support. Our friends, so many had problems on their own. Some were in jail, some were drug-addicted. The life which they led caught up to them.”

On Dec. 2, two days before she boarded the No. 27 bus, Kreager testified, she ran out of Paxil. And after eating a free lunch at the Franciscan Center on 23rd Street, she and Ennis boarded the light rail for Hampden, where they grew up, where her ailing father frequented the bars, loaded on heroin and later on alcohol.

That’s where she knew of a pharmacy that would give her the best price. From there, the couple intended to retrace their steps, but they knew the No. 27 — a bus route Ennis had ridden “all his life” — would be faster. It was already 2:20 p.m., and they needed to get back downtown by 3.

Ennis needed his methadone, which he took daily.

Unlike Kreager, Ennis was under “fee restrictions” at the Man Alive clinic in the 2100 block of Maryland Avenue because he hadn’t paid for his daily treatments for four weeks. The clinic only served “restricted” clients from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m.

“If you don’t have insurance, you have to pay for your own methadone,” Kreager said. “The feeling is that if you can come up with your own money to buy drugs, you can come up with money to buy methadone. Recovery is something you have to do yourself.”

“After beating on bus, victim rebuilding life”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.kreager21mar21,0,1077647.story

By Melissa Harris | sun reporter
March 21, 2008

Sarah Kreager had picked up her prescription anti-depressant and boarded the No. 27 bus in Hampden that would take her and her boyfriend downtown to a methadone clinic.

She had eaten lunch at a soup kitchen that day. Her three children were living with foster parents. She was homeless.

By the time she got on the bus, she said she was already on her “last option,” that a string of setbacks had formed “a black cloud” over her.

But what happened next thrust her personal pain into the public consciousness. She was beaten by a crowd of eighth-graders from nearby Robert Poole Middle School after a dispute over a seat on the crowded bus. She wanted to sit down; a student said the spot had been saved. Some black students said Kreager uttered a racial slur, disputed by both Kreager and the black bus driver.

In a fight described by witnesses as a riot, students jumped on Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. The brawl spilled from the bus and ended in a gutter on 33rd Street, with students piling on top of the young woman and kicking her until a neighbor rushed to her rescue.

Arrests followed, then a long, racially charged trial in juvenile court that ended this week with five students found responsible, their punishment to be determined by a judge next month.

In a telephone interview yesterday, Kreager said the judge’s ruling brought her “happiness,” “joy” and vindication.

“For everything that was in the papers and on TV — and people say ‘Oh, that’s not a big deal’ — but when people, defense attorneys and parents, are lying on you on public television, saying you’re racist, that your husband is a violent wife-beater, I fear my kids might read that one day.”

Now, after months being hidden away in the city’s witness protection program, Kreager will have to rebuild her life.

Within 30 days, she will have to find a new place to live. Her goal is to reunite with her three children — ages 1, 2 and 5 — who have been living with two separate foster families since August, when Kreager became homeless after a string of setbacks that began with a car accident and grew into an addiction to painkillers.

“My oldest still loves the raw beauty of life, whispers to dolls and is in awe of the stars,” Kreager said in a telephone interview yesterday, two days after the exhausting trial, in which she was labeled a racist and an instigator of the Dec. 4 brawl aboard the No. 27 bus in Hampden.

The circumstances that put Kreager and Ennis, 31, on the bus began, she says, years ago in a hospital emergency room in Baltimore, where she arrived with a racing heart, muscle spasms and a general feeling she was going to suffer a heart attack. Kreager says doctors diagnosed her with panic attacks, and prescribed anti-anxiety medication, Xanax and Paxil.

Then came the fender-bender. They didn’t have health insurance, and Kreager’s friend referred her to a doctor, who would examine her for only $175. Kreager said she should have been suspicious, but accepted the doctor’s prescriptions for “everything,” nonetheless.

She went back for refills every month and slowly she began to take them when her neck and back weren’t hurting, when she was simply in “a bad mood” or needed extra energy to keep up with two kids, she said.

“It got to the point where my body was hurting because I wasn’t taking Percocet,” she said. “It was worse when I didn’t take them, than it was before I took them at all.”

Then, Ennis got injured at work, and Kreager offered him a few of her pills. Then, they both started filling prescriptions. By the time Kreager was pregnant with her third child, her addiction had escalated to oxycontin. Her obstetrician put her on methadone for the baby’s health, and Ennis soon followed with treatment.

In August, he lost his job. Their youngest daughter was six months old. They moved into a friend’s house. But when Kreager suspected her of using drugs, she said, the family left for the streets and placed their children with her mother.

“Everything started to crumble,” Kreager said. “We had no family support. Our friends, so many had problems on their own. Some were in jail, some were drug-addicted. The life which they led caught up to them.”

On Dec. 2, two days before she boarded the No. 27 bus, Kreager testified, she ran out of Paxil. And after eating a free lunch at the Franciscan Center on 23rd Street, she and Ennis boarded the light rail for Hampden, where they grew up, where her ailing father frequented the bars, loaded on heroin and later on alcohol.

That’s where she knew of a pharmacy that would give her the best price. From there, the couple intended to retrace their steps, but they knew the No. 27 — a bus route Ennis had ridden “all his life” — would be faster. It was already 2:20 p.m., and they needed to get back downtown by 3.

Ennis needed his methadone, which he took daily.

Unlike Kreager, Ennis was under “fee restrictions” at the Man Alive clinic in the 2100 block of Maryland Avenue because he hadn’t paid for his daily treatments for four weeks. The clinic only served “restricted” clients from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m.

“If you don’t have insurance, you have to pay for your own methadone,” Kreager said. “The feeling is that if you can come up with your own money to buy drugs, you can come up with money to buy methadone. Recovery is something you have to do yourself.”

“After beating on bus, victim rebuilding life”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.kreager21mar21,0,1077647.story

By Melissa Harris | sun reporter
March 21, 2008

Sarah Kreager had picked up her prescription anti-depressant and boarded the No. 27 bus in Hampden that would take her and her boyfriend downtown to a methadone clinic.

She had eaten lunch at a soup kitchen that day. Her three children were living with foster parents. She was homeless.

By the time she got on the bus, she said she was already on her “last option,” that a string of setbacks had formed “a black cloud” over her.

But what happened next thrust her personal pain into the public consciousness. She was beaten by a crowd of eighth-graders from nearby Robert Poole Middle School after a dispute over a seat on the crowded bus. She wanted to sit down; a student said the spot had been saved. Some black students said Kreager uttered a racial slur, disputed by both Kreager and the black bus driver.

In a fight described by witnesses as a riot, students jumped on Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. The brawl spilled from the bus and ended in a gutter on 33rd Street, with students piling on top of the young woman and kicking her until a neighbor rushed to her rescue.

Arrests followed, then a long, racially charged trial in juvenile court that ended this week with five students found responsible, their punishment to be determined by a judge next month.

In a telephone interview yesterday, Kreager said the judge’s ruling brought her “happiness,” “joy” and vindication.

“For everything that was in the papers and on TV — and people say ‘Oh, that’s not a big deal’ — but when people, defense attorneys and parents, are lying on you on public television, saying you’re racist, that your husband is a violent wife-beater, I fear my kids might read that one day.”

Now, after months being hidden away in the city’s witness protection program, Kreager will have to rebuild her life.

Within 30 days, she will have to find a new place to live. Her goal is to reunite with her three children — ages 1, 2 and 5 — who have been living with two separate foster families since August, when Kreager became homeless after a string of setbacks that began with a car accident and grew into an addiction to painkillers.

“My oldest still loves the raw beauty of life, whispers to dolls and is in awe of the stars,” Kreager said in a telephone interview yesterday, two days after the exhausting trial, in which she was labeled a racist and an instigator of the Dec. 4 brawl aboard the No. 27 bus in Hampden.

The circumstances that put Kreager and Ennis, 31, on the bus began, she says, years ago in a hospital emergency room in Baltimore, where she arrived with a racing heart, muscle spasms and a general feeling she was going to suffer a heart attack. Kreager says doctors diagnosed her with panic attacks, and prescribed anti-anxiety medication, Xanax and Paxil.

Then came the fender-bender. They didn’t have health insurance, and Kreager’s friend referred her to a doctor, who would examine her for only $175. Kreager said she should have been suspicious, but accepted the doctor’s prescriptions for “everything,” nonetheless.

She went back for refills every month and slowly she began to take them when her neck and back weren’t hurting, when she was simply in “a bad mood” or needed extra energy to keep up with two kids, she said.

“It got to the point where my body was hurting because I wasn’t taking Percocet,” she said. “It was worse when I didn’t take them, than it was before I took them at all.”

Then, Ennis got injured at work, and Kreager offered him a few of her pills. Then, they both started filling prescriptions. By the time Kreager was pregnant with her third child, her addiction had escalated to oxycontin. Her obstetrician put her on methadone for the baby’s health, and Ennis soon followed with treatment.

In August, he lost his job. Their youngest daughter was six months old. They moved into a friend’s house. But when Kreager suspected her of using drugs, she said, the family left for the streets and placed their children with her mother.

“Everything started to crumble,” Kreager said. “We had no family support. Our friends, so many had problems on their own. Some were in jail, some were drug-addicted. The life which they led caught up to them.”

On Dec. 2, two days before she boarded the No. 27 bus, Kreager testified, she ran out of Paxil. And after eating a free lunch at the Franciscan Center on 23rd Street, she and Ennis boarded the light rail for Hampden, where they grew up, where her ailing father frequented the bars, loaded on heroin and later on alcohol.

That’s where she knew of a pharmacy that would give her the best price. From there, the couple intended to retrace their steps, but they knew the No. 27 — a bus route Ennis had ridden “all his life” — would be faster. It was already 2:20 p.m., and they needed to get back downtown by 3.

Ennis needed his methadone, which he took daily.

Unlike Kreager, Ennis was under “fee restrictions” at the Man Alive clinic in the 2100 block of Maryland Avenue because he hadn’t paid for his daily treatments for four weeks. The clinic only served “restricted” clients from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m.

“If you don’t have insurance, you have to pay for your own methadone,” Kreager said. “The feeling is that if you can come up with your own money to buy drugs, you can come up with money to buy methadone. Recovery is something you have to do yourself.”

“After beating on bus, victim rebuilding life”

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-md.ci.kreager21mar21,0,1077647.story

By Melissa Harris | sun reporter
March 21, 2008

Sarah Kreager had picked up her prescription anti-depressant and boarded the No. 27 bus in Hampden that would take her and her boyfriend downtown to a methadone clinic.

She had eaten lunch at a soup kitchen that day. Her three children were living with foster parents. She was homeless.

By the time she got on the bus, she said she was already on her “last option,” that a string of setbacks had formed “a black cloud” over her.

But what happened next thrust her personal pain into the public consciousness. She was beaten by a crowd of eighth-graders from nearby Robert Poole Middle School after a dispute over a seat on the crowded bus. She wanted to sit down; a student said the spot had been saved. Some black students said Kreager uttered a racial slur, disputed by both Kreager and the black bus driver.

In a fight described by witnesses as a riot, students jumped on Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis. The brawl spilled from the bus and ended in a gutter on 33rd Street, with students piling on top of the young woman and kicking her until a neighbor rushed to her rescue.

Arrests followed, then a long, racially charged trial in juvenile court that ended this week with five students found responsible, their punishment to be determined by a judge next month.

In a telephone interview yesterday, Kreager said the judge’s ruling brought her “happiness,” “joy” and vindication.

“For everything that was in the papers and on TV — and people say ‘Oh, that’s not a big deal’ — but when people, defense attorneys and parents, are lying on you on public television, saying you’re racist, that your husband is a violent wife-beater, I fear my kids might read that one day.”

Now, after months being hidden away in the city’s witness protection program, Kreager will have to rebuild her life.

Within 30 days, she will have to find a new place to live. Her goal is to reunite with her three children — ages 1, 2 and 5 — who have been living with two separate foster families since August, when Kreager became homeless after a string of setbacks that began with a car accident and grew into an addiction to painkillers.

“My oldest still loves the raw beauty of life, whispers to dolls and is in awe of the stars,” Kreager said in a telephone interview yesterday, two days after the exhausting trial, in which she was labeled a racist and an instigator of the Dec. 4 brawl aboard the No. 27 bus in Hampden.

The circumstances that put Kreager and Ennis, 31, on the bus began, she says, years ago in a hospital emergency room in Baltimore, where she arrived with a racing heart, muscle spasms and a general feeling she was going to suffer a heart attack. Kreager says doctors diagnosed her with panic attacks, and prescribed anti-anxiety medication, Xanax and Paxil.

Then came the fender-bender. They didn’t have health insurance, and Kreager’s friend referred her to a doctor, who would examine her for only $175. Kreager said she should have been suspicious, but accepted the doctor’s prescriptions for “everything,” nonetheless.

She went back for refills every month and slowly she began to take them when her neck and back weren’t hurting, when she was simply in “a bad mood” or needed extra energy to keep up with two kids, she said.

“It got to the point where my body was hurting because I wasn’t taking Percocet,” she said. “It was worse when I didn’t take them, than it was before I took them at all.”

Then, Ennis got injured at work, and Kreager offered him a few of her pills. Then, they both started filling prescriptions. By the time Kreager was pregnant with her third child, her addiction had escalated to oxycontin. Her obstetrician put her on methadone for the baby’s health, and Ennis soon followed with treatment.

In August, he lost his job. Their youngest daughter was six months old. They moved into a friend’s house. But when Kreager suspected her of using drugs, she said, the family left for the streets and placed their children with her mother.

“Everything started to crumble,” Kreager said. “We had no family support. Our friends, so many had problems on their own. Some were in jail, some were drug-addicted. The life which they led caught up to them.”

On Dec. 2, two days before she boarded the No. 27 bus, Kreager testified, she ran out of Paxil. And after eating a free lunch at the Franciscan Center on 23rd Street, she and Ennis boarded the light rail for Hampden, where they grew up, where her ailing father frequented the bars, loaded on heroin and later on alcohol.

That’s where she knew of a pharmacy that would give her the best price. From there, the couple intended to retrace their steps, but they knew the No. 27 — a bus route Ennis had ridden “all his life” — would be faster. It was already 2:20 p.m., and they needed to get back downtown by 3.

Ennis needed his methadone, which he took daily.

Unlike Kreager, Ennis was under “fee restrictions” at the Man Alive clinic in the 2100 block of Maryland Avenue because he hadn’t paid for his daily treatments for four weeks. The clinic only served “restricted” clients from 2 p.m. to 3 p.m.

“If you don’t have insurance, you have to pay for your own methadone,” Kreager said. “The feeling is that if you can come up with your own money to buy drugs, you can come up with money to buy methadone. Recovery is something you have to do yourself.”

So here we are. The sentencing was supposed to be on April 3rd, but I cannot find anything about it online.

The message board below has a post that says it was postponed until April 23rd. Don’t know if that’s accurate or not.

http://www.baltimoresun2.com/talk/showthread.php?t=141431

Thanks for keeping me posted on this story, Wry. I really appreciate it. Let me know when you hear something about sentencing, too, please. Thanks again.

This summarizes the Kreager case.

“Teens tried to stonewall police”
Key details in MTA bus attack remain unclear

By Melissa Harris and Gus G. Sentementes | Sun reporters
March 21, 2008

In assembling a case against a group accused of beating a passenger aboard a city bus, police had to sort through conflicting statements from middle school students who appeared streetwise beyond their years.

In interrogation rooms, detectives faced off against recalcitrant children as young as 14 who remained defiant even as interrogators threatened them with adult charges and warned that their friends might be giving them up in a room next door.

One 14-year-old boy repeatedly told a Maryland Transit Administration Police sergeant that he saw the fight on the No. 27 bus in Hampden but couldn’t name the people involved.

“They go to my school, but I don’t hang with them,” he said after the officer insinuated that he was lying because the boy refused to make eye contact.

“You know the guys you catch the bus with all the time,” the sergeant said. “You see their faces all the time. Even if you don’t know their last names, you know their first names. Is it that you don’t want to tell me, is that it?”

The boy answered: “No, I ain’t going to put them out there like that.”

Hundreds of pages of documents obtained by The Sun recount police interviews in which the Robert Poole Middle School students accused in the December attack on Sarah Kreager and her boyfriend, Troy Ennis, tried to stonewall authorities.

Girls told stories that didn’t match, and at one point, while they were in a holding cell, a city police officer watched them mimic the beating they were accused of carrying out — laughing as they threw kicks and punches into the air.

Despite weeks of testimony and a ruling Tuesday by a juvenile court judge, who found five teens responsible in various ways for what 911 callers described as a riot, key details remain unclear, and those involved on both sides remain deeply divided over whether justice has been achieved.

“I didn’t think it was fair,” said the father of one of the boys who was found responsible. “From looking at the evidence, there wasn’t any.”

The judge, prosecutors and the bus driver disagreed. Danny Williams, 49, had worked as a correctional officer before he signed on to drive a bus.

Fights he witnessed in jail couldn’t compare to the melee that left his bus in tatters — a window shattered, seats torn and the back door left hanging from its hinges. Williams said in an interview, “If they kicked that woman a little higher in the head, she would’ve been brain dead.”

The case played upon the racial fears of residents in a city troubled by crime — a white woman attacked by black youths. Some students accused Ennis of using a racial slur, and some said Kreager spat. Kreager adamantly denied the accusations, and in court said it was one of the girls who first introduced race by telling her: “You white bitches think you own everything,” when Kreager tried to sit in a spot the teen said was reserved for “her home girl.”

The attack prompted the bus driver to grind his vehicle to a halt on 33rd Street at Chestnut Avenue, a few blocks from Robert Poole Middle School. Joyce King watched from her home as the back door swung open and Kreager tumbled out and into a gutter.

Then, the 57-year-old grandmother saw the teens pounce. Screaming, she rushed to help.

But in court, King couldn’t identify the attackers. She said in an interview that she was too afraid to make eye contact with them. “I had this awful sense of dread that they would start hitting her again, and I wouldn’t be able to do anything to stop them.”

Police officers who arrived found the youths in two groups, rounded them up and had Kreager identify her attackers. They were taken to an MTA office on North Eutaw Street to be interviewed.

It was there that police heard diverging accounts of what happened aboard the No. 27 bus, according to the transcripts.

“The white man and his wife got on the bus,” a 14-year-old girl told Detective Anjanette McBride Jones. “And she already had an attitude when she got on the bus … and she went to whisper in her husband’s ear something, and he said spit on them [racial slur]. And that’s when Nakita got up and walked to the back of the bus. … But she swung on Nakita and hit Nakita in her face and Nakita slapped her back.”

She said that after the fight the kids knew they had hurt Kreager, and nine minutes after the recording started, the girl tells police, “I hit her, but I ain’t really, you know, hit so hard.”

Police pressed hard on Nakita McDaniels, 15, whose name has been public since she filed countercharges against Kreager, which prosecutors did not pursue.

Detective Margaret Fleming threatened to filed adult assault charges against the teen and told her that Kreager would need surgery for the broken bones near her left eye and that her mother would end up footing the bill.

McDaniels held her ground, saying “the lady” started the fight, that she didn’t know who kicked Kreager in the face and that “I only hit her with my hand.”

“And you want to stick to that,” Fleming said. “All right. You can think about it, but you’re facing 10 years in jail.”

A 15-year-old boy, interviewed by Detective Eric Smith, was equally difficult.

“I don’t really got to tell you nothing about that,” he said in his police interview. “I wasn’t really paying attention.”

Kreager didn’t spit, and Ennis didn’t use a racial slur, the boy said. He said the investigation is going to “come out good for him” because he “ain’t do nothing.” The rest of them, he said, deserve a second chance because “they didn’t start it.”

More than 2 1/2 hours later, after a break in the tape, the boy changed his story.

“I hit the man two times,” he said. “I didn’t touch the lady. I just saw the lady on the ground. … He kept telling us to get out of the bus and fight. … He asked all of us to fight.”

It was the 14-year-old boy who defied his interrogators the longest. Even after police told him that they had a video camera — later found to have been defective — aboard the bus that captured his every move, the boy never admitted to participating in the fight.

“Hold on for a second,” Detective Sgt. Bryan White said. “You don’t understand. The lady hit [name redacted] in the middle of a group of y’all. One of y’all tagged that lady and made her retreat back [her] to husband. Who was it?

“I ain’t telling,” the boy said. “I don’t know who it was …”

White asked the question again: “Who in the group tagged the lady cause you could see everything from where you were. I know you could.”

“I couldn’t see everything from where I was cause I was like in the middle before the doors,” the teen said.

Well into the three-round interview, the boy blamed another student, who has never been charged, for the vicious kicking. But White never bought it — the boy’s body language said otherwise, he told the student.

“Everything that you just said, your body language telling me that there’s … Take your hands out of your pocket man,” White said. “The fact that you can’t even look me in my face now tells me that it’s a lie.”

These kids are really tough specimens of today’s youth. They seemed to know how to handle the police and were not at all cowed by being arrested for beating a woman savagely.

I must be developing a psychic connection with this story. I had a feeling I should do a search although the sentencing isn’t until April 23rd — and lo and behold!

“Bus beating victim guilty of drug charge”

http://www.examiner.com/a-1326663~Bus_beating_victim_guilty_of_drug_charge.html

Kreager is sentenced to 18 months probation on a charge that she offered to sell an undercover cop some drugs. She says that he approached her and she thought that she was helping another drug addict, implication being that she’s not a regular dealer. The police officer says she said that she could get him any kind of drug he wanted.

Kreager was homeless and walking around with her boyfriend and their children when she and the officer talked.

“Sarah Kreager, 26, pleaded not guilty but agreed to a Baltimore City police officer’s statement of facts, which alleged that on Oct. 18 she attempted to sell him prescription drugs while he was working undercover.”

Interesting….

“Sarah Kreager, 26, pleaded not guilty but agreed to a Baltimore City police officer’s statement of facts, which alleged that on Oct. 18 she attempted to sell him prescription drugs while he was working undercover.”

What does “pled not guilty but agree to officer’s statement of facts” equal in a court of law? Is that like a Prayer for Judgemnet type thing? Does she get some type of sentencing for that?

Updated article this morning with sentencing information for the teens convicted of beating Sarah Kreager. Thanks, Wry!

Link: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/baltimore_city/bal-te.md.ci.mta24apr24,0,6423963.story

sentencing information for the teens convicted of beating Sarah Kreager. Thanks, Wry!

Yeah, thanks, Wry!

sentencing information for the teens convicted of beating Sarah Kreager. Thanks, Wry!

Thanks Wry and Imp.

– Judge sentences one teen to juvenile jail, four others to detention in bus beating –

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080512/D90KAU580.html

For those who’d are still interested. Nakita M. has had six documented acts of violence and was on probation for one when she led the attack.

The judge said, and I agree, ““It reduced me to tears,” said Baltimore City Juvenile Court Judge David Young during a long, emotional speech. “I just wonder what has gone so wrong, so wrong in our families, our community, our churches, our schools.”

And Kreager noted, ““I was made the enemy here. None of the kids or their parents ever asked if I was OK,” she said. “I’m probably going to have to leave the place I’ve lived in for 26 years because there were a lot of kids on that bus and they all know what I look like.”

- Kreager: Bus attack ‘strengthened my soul’ -

http://www.examiner.com/a-1363391~Kreager__Bus_attack__strengthened_my_soul_.html

Interesting interview the Sarah Kreager, the woman who was beaten. She now has some blurred vision and her face is asymmetrical as a result of the attack. I sure hope this woman and her boyfriend can construct a happy life after this trauma.

What has happened to this world. Its another case of parents not being parents. I am pretty sure if I would have even hit another person I wouldn’t have seen daylight for a long time. Please be parents already, not their bestfriend…THEIR PARENT!

This story amazes me…..